They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Durasturan]

The thing is, TOR hasn't really been around long enough to for any of us to pay for anything. LotRO had several expansions worth of content, so grandfathering some people in based upon what they subscribed to (meaning they purchased the xpacs) was relevant.

 

With TOR, the only thing that qualifies is end-game stuff like PVP warzones, HM's, and Ops. If TOR was several years old and had a level cap of 60 or 70 now, I could see Bioware giving away older end-game content like Turbine did. TOR is still fairly new, however, and going F2P doesn't mean it's becoming a non-profit charity.

 

Maybe people feel cheated out of paying 50 dollars for a boxed game that becomes free less than a year later; that's a valid complaint. Bioware might decide to reward people who did purchase the game with a chunk of CP or something, who knows. Honestly, I didn't expect them to give away a free month of gameplay earlier this year, but they did. I'm just not holding my breath for it, and I certainly don't expect it to happen from a business stand point.

 

Really? Gee cuz I thought I'd already paid nearly $200 to BW and EA for the game and my sub since December. I guess I must not have actually paid for anything then...

[discosoc]

Really? Gee cuz I thought I'd already paid nearly $200 to BW and EA for the game and my sub since December. I guess I must not have actually paid for anything then...

 

You paid for the ability to play the game, and you received that ability. There's nothing new about a subscription model for MMO's. It's been a criticism for years, so I'm not sure why you are just now starting to get upset about paying them.

[Soluss]

Conversely, there is no guarantee you won't have full acces either.

 

I encourage not getting upset on speculation that is unconfirmed

 

I encourage that he does get upset. If noone spoke their mind about it then I guarentee you that BW would start charging for anything and everything. Why? Because they think they can get away with it and noone would care. You have to stand up for yourself before things happen. You cant just sit idly by and hope for the best.

[JWillets]

it really all depends on what they mean by "meaty." I don't see how they can justify charging subscribers for content that should have come out a month ago. There really hasn't been all that much put out (1 new wz novare coast , 2 new fp's Kaon and LI, 1.5 ops *last 2 bosses in kp and all of ec, and 1 world boss), everything else they put out are just things that should've been in the game at launch. Im not paying for a subscription for buggy content that ill just have to pay for like F2P people. I hope to see a CS response to this kinda fast.

 

Also ms. Berryman has been on the forums since this thing went up so I can see that they're definitely dodging this one for the time being. It should be noted that since I saw this thread and wrote this response, 6 pages have filled up.

Edited August 20, 2012 by JWillets

[discosoc]

If they in fact mean that you will have enough cartel coins to outright buy all the content you had access too as a subscriber as a new F2P player then fair enough.

 

However I'd be surprised if all that sold for as little as 1350 cartel coins, massively surprised in fact.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if a FP didn't go for much more than 1000.

 

It's starting to sound like you just want the game to be literally free to play for you. Meaning, you get an MMO without having to pay a sub fee. Despite the moniker "free to play", the business model is certainly not. Bioware has definitely not marketed this MMO as being a one-time purchase like Guild Wars, so it's a bit unrealistic to get angry when they don't make it one.

[Goretzu]

Conversely, there is no guarantee you won't have full acces either.

 

I encourage not getting upset on speculation that is unconfirmed

 

But there is a guareentee you won't have access to the vanilla game.

 

As for speculation, if you never think about anything till AFTER it has happened, then you will also never stop or change anything in life.

 

I choose to try to change bad things.

[Soluss]

You paid for the ability to play the game, and you received that ability. There's nothing new about a subscription model for MMO's. It's been a criticism for years, so I'm not sure why you are just now starting to get upset about paying them.

 

Because, in the past, people felt they were getting their moneys worth. Those people no longer do. There is a difference between paying money and getting content that you feel you should get and told you would... and paying money to have them turn around and not give it to you. Go on and say there was no promise of content... see my sig.

[Tuscad]

You dont have to wonder... all that money went towards the new "expansion" and the F2P conversion

 

I don't know, that might be under baked too.

[Goretzu]

How is that any different than what you are getting today, right now? It's how MMO sub models work. You pay for the game, and you pay to keep playing it. If you stop paying, you can't keep playing.

 

They are actually doing you a service by giving you ANY access at all to the game when you no longer subscribe.

 

Because as soon as you stop you lose it, unlike LOTRO, where you still have access to all the content you previously had access to as a subscriber.

 

Now IF they were including ALL content in a sub price (like Makeb) then they'd maybe have some justification for that, but otherwise it's still just selling things twice.

 

 

It's starting to sound like you just want the game to be literally free to play for you. Meaning, you get an MMO without having to pay a sub fee. Despite the moniker "free to play", the business model is certainly not. Bioware has definitely not marketed this MMO as being a one-time purchase like Guild Wars, so it's a bit unrealistic to get angry when they don't make it one.

 

No I'd much rather pay a subscription fee and have NO "F2P" option, much, much rather. I run several subs as one time and this in no problem for me.

 

I just don't like the idea of being gouged by a company trying to re-sell me stuff I have already in fact paid for once.

[Tuscad]

You paid for the ability to play the game, and you received that ability. There's nothing new about a subscription model for MMO's. It's been a criticism for years, so I'm not sure why you are just now starting to get upset about paying them.

 

Except that the excuse for having us pay a subscription model is updates and new content. I haven't seen $135 worth of updates and new content.

[discosoc]

Because, in the past, people felt they were getting their moneys worth. Those people no longer do. There is a difference between paying money and getting content that you feel you should get and told you would... and paying money to have them turn around and not give it to you. Go on and say there was no promise of content... see my sig.

 

Oh I agree that they've promised more than they've delivered, by far. But my subscription never hinged on getting new content every month or so. The last thing I'm going to do is complain about having the option to not subscribe and still get to play a significant portion of the game, and certainly whole class stories. And if I want to keep access to everything the game has to offer? I keep subscribing, which is exactly what I would have to do if the whole F2P thing never came up.

 

People are freaking out over nothing.

[Durasturan]

You paid for the ability to play the game, and you received that ability. There's nothing new about a subscription model for MMO's. It's been a criticism for years, so I'm not sure why you are just now starting to get upset about paying them.

 

Then you haven't been paying attention.

[pocketthesaurus]

They are giving much more content than that. Oh and one continent in WoW does not one planet make.

Are you so sure? They said Makeb would be meaty.

 

Anyway, anytime there is a level cap being raised, it's probably an expansion.

Edited August 20, 2012 by pocketthesaurus

[Goretzu]

Are you so sure? They said Makeb would be meaty.

 

Anyway, anytime there is a level cap being raised, it's probably an expansion.

 

They've said many things about Makeb, some already are turning out to be untrue.

 

Never mind RvR etc.

[Soluss]

So...What is included in the one planet....how much Xp does it require to go from 50-51. Something I tell my clients all the time "past performance does guarantee future results". We have absolutely no clue what all Makeb entails..Zilch. Yet you feel the need to tell us your assumptions and fear mongering, with a splash of how RIFT is better. Well all my forum time has been used for today....Home,Dinner and some EC hard-mode. Peace.

 

Because when you implement a level curve... that is not going to drastically change. It would throw balance way off. You follow that same curve or you adjust the initial curve. I highly doubt they are going to steepen the curve to accomodate future levels. That would require more leveling content. Come on man, if you played other MMOs then you know how the level process works. You are not going to all of a sudden jump into hellish levels. If it takes you 10 hours to go from 45 - 50 then it will probably take you 12 to go from 50-55.

 

We have no clue on all that it will entail no. What I do know is that they said there would not be any class story on Makeb. There will not be any companion story on Makeb. It will be world arc story. What I do know is they talked about another raid , warzone and some space missions and hk-51 in the same time frame. They talked about all this indicating it was a content update they had in the works....similar to 1.2 What I do know is that was consider to be in the pipeline for a soon to be content update. So, if you want to analyze it.... it would seem that they are changing that. They will package it all together and call it an expansion. What that would also mean is we will see no new content until that expansion hits.

 

They dont have enough time to create new content for the next update and create an expansion worthy content to package with Makeb. The only way for them to do it is to put it all in with Makeb. Again... that would mean that supposed content update was put off and packaged into an "expansion" which means we arent getting content updates. Either Makeb is bare bones and not expansion worthy or it has all that wrapped into it but its what we should have gotten in 1.4. Either way that works out is shady.

[Soluss]

Oh I agree that they've promised more than they've delivered, by far. But my subscription never hinged on getting new content every month or so. The last thing I'm going to do is complain about having the option to not subscribe and still get to play a significant portion of the game, and certainly whole class stories. And if I want to keep access to everything the game has to offer? I keep subscribing, which is exactly what I would have to do if the whole F2P thing never came up.

 

People are freaking out over nothing.

 

It doesnt bother me that I didnt get content every month. What bothers me is I feel we are still due content. I feel that Makeb was an update that should have been 1.4 or 1.5. I feel we are still due operations and warzones. I feel that atleast some of it should have been this month...at the very least next month. What bothers me is Makeb is being consider to make us pay extra for it. If it was a true expansion AND I felt I got appropriate content updating up to that point, then I wouldnt mind an expansion. I dont feel that way though. I dont feel we have gotten that appropriate "Free content updating" to justify already paying for an expansion.

 

Another guy will say I am advertising for another game but Im not. Im simply using that other game as a comparison to show what I feel is getting your content moneys worth. Look at here: http://www.riftgame.com/en/game/updates/conquest.php Go through all those updates and look what they have added, to the game. Look at just the first 8-9 months to make a comparison to what we have recieved here. Now go here: http://stormlegion.riftgame.com/en/ and look at what they are doing for their first expansion. Two different games that launched about 6 months apart. If BW had done with this game, that Trion did with theres... I would have been perfectly happy.

[Soluss]

Are you so sure? They said Makeb would be meaty.

 

Anyway, anytime there is a level cap being raised, it's probably an expansion.

 

They also said we would get content month after month after month. They also said at one point Makeb would be free. They also said they would never go F2P .... in their words "A free to play model could never put out the quality of content then we can in our sub model". They also said alot of other things that never happend.

[Taorus]

Because when you implement a level curve... that is not going to drastically change. It would throw balance way off. You follow that same curve or you adjust the initial curve. I highly doubt they are going to steepen the curve to accomodate future levels. That would require more leveling content. Come on man, if you played other MMOs then you know how the level process works. You are not going to all of a sudden jump into hellish levels. If it takes you 10 hours to go from 45 - 50 then it will probably take you 12 to go from 50-55.

Some folks have yet to reach 50...I have been playing since Early release reached 50 a few weeks ago. Just because something was done one way it cannot be changed.

 

We have no clue on all that it will entail no. What I do know is that they said there would not be any class story on Makeb. correct There will not be any companion story on Makeb. Correct again. It will be world arc story. On a roll now. What I do know is they talked about another raid , warzone and some space missions and hk-51 in the same time frame. They talked about all this indicating it was a content update they had in the works....similar to 1.2 What I do know is that was consider to be in the pipeline for a soon to be content update. So, if you want to analyze it.... it would seem that they are changing that. They will package it all together and call it an expansion. What that would also mean is we will see no new content until that expansion hits. See here is where you went wrong. They have stated clearly this is coming before Makeb. Your attempted fear mongering at its best. In the very Interview you cite, Jeff makes a candid point to Identify the various teams. Its just as easy to say that one team is working on the up-coming content, with another working on Makeb. But you know that...you are just fear mongering.

 

They dont have enough time to create new content for the next update and create an expansion worthy content to package with Makeb. The only way for them to do it is to put it all in with Makeb. Again... that would mean that supposed content update was put off and packaged into an "expansion" which means we arent getting content updates. Either Makeb is bare bones and not expansion worthy or it has all that wrapped into it but its what we should have gotten in 1.4. Either way that works out is shady.

 

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Taorus

[Shadezilla]

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

 

I have not played WoW since about maybe 4 months in to Cataclysm but there was more than 2 zones added with Cataclysm, there was also (going from memory too lazy to go look) the addition of the Worgan and Goblins revamped world from 1-60 not to mention the new dungeons and raids that it launched with as well. I don't know what will be in Makeb but it does not sound like the scale will match but I doubt based on the information we are given and the question of who is testing it that it will be on that scale. If it is I would consider paying on top of my subscription.

[AshenK]

Don't worry they won't be milking anyone. Why?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/08/20/electronic-arts-sp-capital-iq-cuts-to-sell-on-valuation/

 

With the dev's not talking today at all, and little news coming out about anything the players are asking for I think that sums it just about up. Too much money has been lost and is being lost on this game.

[mothear]

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

 

Whilst I'm far from a hater I believe that you are clutching at straws here. From my recollection they said that Makeb and the space station mission may not be available for 1.4 (originally trailed as August) but would be available by the end of the year. You have to bear in mind that F2P had not been announced at this stage so as it was not labelled at the time as an expansion I believe those comments are fair.

 

On your WoW point, whilst I have no desire or willingness to return to that game at least tell the truth when you are describing the expansion.

Edited August 20, 2012 by mothear

[Surakis]

No MMO has ever charged for beta testing like this one has, either.

 

Laughably false. Which ones haven't?

[Smuglebunny]

Lol Im not giving you any more money. silly execs.

 

When EVERYTHING wrong is fixed let me know. Until then you would have to be rich or foolish to keep getting stolen from.

 

This game MIGHT be ready for RELEASE in Dec of 2012. Maybe.

[Taorus]

I have not played WoW since about maybe 4 months in to Cataclysm but there was more than 2 zones added with Cataclysm, there was also (going from memory too lazy to go look) the addition of the Worgan and Goblins revamped world from 1-60 not to mention the new dungeons and raids that it launched with as well. I don't know what will be in Makeb but it does not sound like the scale will match but I doubt based on the information we are given and the question of who is testing it that it will be on that scale. If it is I would consider paying on top of my subscription.

 

Yes two new zones,two new races 5 dungeons and 2 small...very small raids. Yes the re-did the old zones(they had to make flying and other things work) But that is not new content...just old re-hashed rubbish. after waiting for 11 months Between LK and the X-pac...11 months. Makeb we know little..next to nothing, But lets see New Planet(Multi-Zones) uncertain new levels...Cathar(New Race)...for what may...Or may not be a additional cost. Looks like something folks have already in the market purchase.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Taorus

[Andryah]

Rift put out an amazing amount of content. If effort = subs they'd have more than WoW at this moment.

 

Which highlights an interesting point about the MMO community IMO.

 

They say if you give them content, they will stay and play. Yet, they don't.

 

Rift suffered ~65% attrition in it's first 6-8 months, all the while content continued to stream. it gets a lot of credit as an MMO that knows how to push good content, yet even today, it's at about 30% of it's launch population. It's fairly stable, but all those alleged loyal content junkies, they never came back to the game.

 

Is that Trion's fault?? or is that on the community??