Why do you think the Agent story is so good?

[Giberelina]

Yeah, I was truly impressed by how much they made me *hate* the enemies in there. I mean, you don't just vaguely want to take them out. You want to rip their still beating hearts from their rib cages.

I mean, when Jadus electrocuted me to death for refusing to kneel for him? Or when Ardun Kothe took over my body and ran it through its "exercises"? Or when Hunter very sadly remarked on how he really wanted my mind control to stay in place because "we could have wandered the galaxy, me as master, you as my servant, whispering sweet nothings in your ear..."? Oh, yeah. It's hard not to want them all dead in a truly visceral way.

 

I know right? That's how you write a villain.

 

 

Which is funny, because Jadus makes you hate Sith, and then no matter how much you hate Hunter, you know he is right...

 

[Mutive]

I know right? That's how you write a villain.

 

 

Which is funny, because Jadus makes you hate Sith, and then no matter how much you hate Hunter, you know he is right...

 

Well, that was the other thing I loved about the villains. They all made sense.

 

 

Jadus had a point in that the Empire is pretty screwed up, and that uniting it under a single, powerful ruler might be a better idea than letting all these people get killed in power plays between the Sith. Plus, he promised more equality for aliens...which is hard not to want if you're playing a non-human.

 

And it's perfectly reasonable that Kothe didn't trust you. I mean, you were sent over by the Imperials to kill him. It's not surprising that he used the one tool at his disposal (your mind control technology) to make sure you didn't take out him and his team.

 

And, like you said, it's hard not to see that Hunter's probably right. The Jedi and the Sith are a danger to everyone and probably *should* be eliminated. (Plus, Hunter deliberately doesn't kill you at least once - maybe more - as well as deliberately keeps Temple and possibly even Kaliyo alive. I still suspect Hunter had ulterior motives, FWIW.)

 

[mikebevo]

So far I have completed the smuggler (sawbones) and a Jedi Consular (infiltration), in the middle of act 3 on my agent and trooper.

 

Loved the smuggler sense of humor and a really good general story, shadow and trooper are meh story wise. Worth doing, but nothing really to love about either, but agent story is very good. Playing as lightside, chiss agent and found the integration into the story about species and gender really drive the story home and make it more personal. Still not willing to put it above smuggler as my favorite, but it is more personal and in a couple days could be my favorite.

 

I must say the way all the fraction and class stories are interweave really adds to me wanting to play all the class stories.

[Bleeters]

Personally, independant of my actual interest in the story and the overall quality of its writing - which I would say is excellent throughout - it's my favourite thus far simply because it actually handles choice-consequence quite expertly. Often it reminded me of Alpha Protocol, in the sense of having different circumstances arise as a result of different behaviour, which various characters respond to in one way or another. Being able to talk down a character and convince them to surrender, or not, due to previous decisions I made and not just whether I make an on-the-spot light or dark side choice is something ToR needed more of in general.

 

I roleplayed it as a reluctant operative trying to make a difference in a society that views mercy as a weakness to be crushed, and had an excellent time. I ran with Kaliyo the entire time, and it gave their relationship a great sense of development. And by the end, I actually felt like my character had developed past what she originally was when I created her, which is something I haven't really had with other character's I've RP'd through their class story.

 

On an side note: that part on Voss, in the shrine of healing? Probably my favourite in-game moment out of any class. Jo Wyatt's performance there was especially good.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Bleeters

[tacito]

The main reason why the agent story captivated me as much as it did is probably the lack of a set of rules to follow. As a Jedi, Sith, Trooper, Bounty Hunter there's always a rule you can fall back to. Something you've already seen in a Star Wars movie or game, that you can apply to the situation at hand.

 

As for agents, you don't have a handy jedi code to judge what is right and wrong. You just take actions, in order to achieve what you deem necessary. That's the appeal, at least for me. No well-known archetype you could cling to. I had to make things up as I went. Which resulted in a much deeper attachment to my agent than my Jedi Knight, I've got to say.

[CNS_Sarajevo]

I was honestly surprised by the end of act 1, was gobsmacked by the situation i was put in in act 2, and could feel the noose tightening in act 3. Along the way I really liked the choices and the characters. I played my character as a bit of a wise guy, which helped liven things up.

[Lozzeramus]

I would have to put it like this:

 

Chapter 1: James Bond

Chapter 2 & 3: John Le Carre Style (Squee)

 

 

I liked the way that in the 2nd Chapter that it felt like your life was falling apart, and that you could truly trust no one. I like the Epic Conclusion in Chapter 3, and how I react to being placed in the Army in Coreillia after I had worked for so long in Intelligence. If they add more onto this, I hope in the end you eventually become the new Keeper, perhaps even the Minister of Intelligence, despite not being genetically engineered. I felt a genuine feeling that I was living as the Character, as I saw so many of my own traits in him as I played.

 

 

[Zacula]

The main reason why the agent story captivated me as much as it did is probably the lack of a set of rules to follow. As a Jedi, Sith, Trooper, Bounty Hunter there's always a rule you can fall back to. Something you've already seen in a Star Wars movie or game, that you can apply to the situation at hand.

 

As for agents, you don't have a handy jedi code to judge what is right and wrong. You just take actions, in order to achieve what you deem necessary. That's the appeal, at least for me. No well-known archetype you could cling to. I had to make things up as I went. Which resulted in a much deeper attachment to my agent than my Jedi Knight, I've got to say.

 

Well, there was a well-known Star Wars archetype for agents. It mostly involved being choked to death by Darth Vader for some utter failure. As that was NOT a very compelling story, they had to go with something else. And what they chose just happened to be good.

[chuixupu]

In some of the novels I've encountered some pretty cool Imperial Agents that I can see writers of SWTOR finding some inspiration from. Drend Navett, for instance, from the Hand of Thrawn duology.

[Chlomamf]

For me it's because:

 

A: You get to play as basically the top MI5/CIA Agent, only that it is the Star Wars version of the two.

 

B: You're an undercover servant of the Empire, tipping the balance of the Galaxy discreetly. That alone is awesome.

 

C: So many twists in the Story can seriously change your view on Factions/People.

 

D: Cuz the Story is friggin' awesome

 

And so much more.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Chlomamf

[Elementlord]

IA has a lot more nuance and moral dilemmas than the other stories I've played (Granted, I haven't played any of them past ~level 30 sans SW, who I completed).

 

Playing a (mostly) Light side Sniper right now, and LS Agent seems to strike me as a good person trying to make the best of a really bad situation, especially after events in chapter 2, which really struck a blow to his faith in the empire (beforehand he was a hardcore Go Empire! Patriot, now not so much).

[urborror]

The agent story uses the same broad story structure as KOTOR 1 and 2, whereas the other classes all have pretty bland arcs. Paradoxically, the "cipher nine" story works pretty well because you feel less like a "cipher"--you feel like a definite character in the middle of a big story. You even have a name--Cipher Nine.

 

Think about this way: NONE of the other classes have a backstory that matters, whereas "character backstory" was the single most important thing in KOTOR 1 and 2. Presumably this was so your character could be "everyman" or "anyman," but by making this choice, the writers gave up the best part of KOTOR 1 and 2. Cipher Nine still doesn't have a backstory, but it comes closest to the storytelling in KOTOR.

 

The agent character has an arc where going light side or dark side both make sense, just like KOTOR. The empire "betrays" you, the Republic "uses" you, not to give too much away, in act 2--it was one of the few times in the game where I felt like something exciting was happening, narratively. Because I had a character.

 

1)Why does it matter if you go lightside or darkside, in the context of the Jedi Knight story?

 

Answer: personal preference.

 

2)Why does it matter if you go lightside of darkside in KOTOR?

 

By the end, it's an integral part of the "story" you're creating, because of the backstory and circumstances.

 

Agent story comes closest to 2. That simple.

[MotorCityMan]

I don't know about the Agent story hype. So far the IA story has been quite lackluster for me and my Sniper is level 39 and almost finished with Act 2. Perhaps it picks up, I don't know, but the Sith Warrior story was a 100x better up to this point. Smuggler was also better.

 

Of course, the IA story is still much better than the JC story, but that's not saying much because JC was a snooze fest.

 

Hoping it gets better, but still wouldn't be too impressed at this point... *crosses fingers*

 

I concur fully.

[CharlieBrown]

I completed JK story (light), Inquisitor story (dark), Warrior story (80% dark / 20% light) before I completed my Agent story (60% dark / 40 % light).

 

Of those, agent was my favorite. I found myself disabling the conversation alignment indicator and not redoing conversations just to boost companion affection for the first time. Your actions had tangible repercussions. That just didn't exist in the other classes. Being a Chiss added flavor to several parts of the main storyline as well, where as on the others I played (Miraluka, Zabrak, Pureblood) it didn't matter at all. Not even once.

 

For instance:

 

On my SIth warrior, I decided to select the lightside answer in Tatooine when it came time to face my reflection, when it came time to do the blood beast thing in the cave, and when it came to the Jedi master at the end. At several points in the story after that Baras goes on tangents about how the dark side is strong with you.

 

Later on, the freakin' emperor decides that I should be his right hand despite making mostly light side choices through Act 2. It makes no sense at all that the most powerful dark side user in the galaxy can't pick up the fact that I'm letting people live left and right!

 

Hell, not even Jaessa has mentioned it despite her dark side story specifically being about rooting out light side Sith. What gives?!

 

It might be because it's my first non-force class that I gained new perspective on everything, but they do a great job of pointing out the fact that we're playing in a sandbox filled with magic-powered lunatics and religious zealots.

 

I'm going to do bounty hunter next, but I'm thinking the other class stories have a lot to live up to now. I would have been disappointed with the first 3 I leveled if Agent was my first class.

 

The other stories have had some amazing moments, but they were specific 5 - 10 minute experiences and not consistent through out. Some specific ones that stood out for me:

 

 

The Inquisitor chain on Voss, the Knight chain on Tython to craft your lightsaber, the Warrior chain on Tatooine

 

The overwhelming majority of the agent chain repeated those moments for me. I work in analysis and risk assessment so interacting with the watchers throughout and hearing their reports made it easy for me to commit to the story. It's just plain awesome.

[RavensBloodyClaw]

I played a full LS IA Sniper to lvl 50 and love it. I was defiant through out the entire story line to Sith Lords and dealt with the consequences that arose for it. There were shocking moments and surprises as to what happened to me and I fully agree that the plot kept me interested in the story line. Don't just space bar the story or you'll miss a lot of things.

 

I started as a LS JK and it felt so blah to that I switched to a trooper and then tried a Sith and was meh. I used Kaliyo through out the entire line except when the incident happened and I switched to the Dr who was great as I plowed through the last story with ease.

 

I have to agree that a LS IA is like a good person trying to make the best of what's handed to them as they are just paid to do a duty.

 

I am planning to continue on a fewer other alts and see how they work out, but I doubt they can come close to my IA.

Edited February 5, 2013 by RavensBloodyClaw

[Master-Nala]

Personally, I think the Agent story is very poorly written, but I can see how folks like it. There's a lot of "cool" things that happen in the story. But, and this is a big one for me, there is absolutely no reason for the character to continue the story. You are supporting an organization not worth fighting for. The Agent story more than any other shows how sick and evil the Sith Empire is and why no rational person with a choice would put up with their nonsense.

 

My first Agent was a Chiss which added a whole layer of stupid to the story since I can't believe that a non-human would put up with what the Agent is asked to do.

 

All that said, the story itself has a lot of twists and turns. If you just play it, and don't really stop to ask whether it makes sense you'll do fine.

 

The Warrior and Bounty Hunter stories are much better IMO for an Imperial character.

[chuixupu]

Personally, I think the Agent story is very poorly written, but I can see how folks like it. There's a lot of "cool" things that happen in the story. But, and this is a big one for me, there is absolutely no reason for the character to continue the story. You are supporting an organization not worth fighting for. The Agent story more than any other shows how sick and evil the Sith Empire is and why no rational person with a choice would put up with their nonsense.

 

I don't know why you think this. You're either choosing to join up with the Sith because you do in fact appreciate their power, or you're choosing to support your comrades that you did trust and respect in an underground sort of way, in whatever way you feel is right within your conscience. Not everyone in the Empire is entirely corrupt, not everyone in the Republic is a saint. I've played both sides. They have their ups and downs. Basically, as the IA that is loyal to the Empire, you just see the Sith as an eyesore that is spoiling an otherwise powerful and efficient machine.

 

My first Agent was a Chiss which added a whole layer of stupid to the story since I can't believe that a non-human would put up with what the Agent is asked to do.

 

I am not sure what you mean by this. You don't think an alien would put up with discrimination? You only need to look to actual history to understand that. Also, Read more about the Chiss, they're nearly as bad as the Empire when it comes to Xenophobia.

 

All that said, the story itself has a lot of twists and turns. If you just play it, and don't really stop to ask whether it makes sense you'll do fine.

 

I've played through it 3 times and it all makes sense to me.

[maxetius]

I defected to the SIS at the end of my Agent story. Yeah, you can do that.

[Master-Nala]

I don't know why you think this. You're either choosing to join up with the Sith because you do in fact appreciate their power, or you're choosing to support your comrades that you did trust and respect in an underground sort of way, in whatever way you feel is right within your conscience. Not everyone in the Empire is entirely corrupt, not everyone in the Republic is a saint. I've played both sides. They have their ups and downs. Basically, as the IA that is loyal to the Empire, you just see the Sith as an eyesore that is spoiling an otherwise powerful and efficient machine.

 

That might get you through Act I, but I simply see no reason for any rational person to stick around after Act II. And while there are quite a few good people, even good Sith, in the Empire, the Empire itself is evil. To its core it is a system that is counterproductive to the welfare most of its citizens. Personally, I generally have a hard time believing that the Empire could have ever subjugated any planet, but that's another post.

 

And seeing the Sith as annoyances just doesn't hold water for me. They rule the Empire. They set themselves out as nobility and brutally enforce that. A non-force user is seen as their tool, but more to the point, that's really all the Agent can be in that system.

 

I am not sure what you mean by this. You don't think an alien would put up with discrimination? You only need to look to actual history to understand that. Also, Read more about the Chiss, they're nearly as bad as the Empire when it comes to Xenophobia.

 

My point exactly. The Chiss would hardly need to put up with the Sith Empire's silly bigotry. As I went through the story, I continually found myself asking, "Well I have an unregistered ship. I could head out to the Chiss Ascendency and screw these crazy Imperials. Why am I doing this now?"

 

I've played through it 3 times and it all makes sense to me.

 

Fair enough. But help me out. Do you see your agents as patriots? As folks who don't have any choice, i.e. slaves to the Sith?

 

The other non-force user class, the Bounty Hunter, is treated with a certain amount of grudging (if patronizing) respect by the Empire. The Agent, and the story all but says this, is treated like a pawn in the silly games the Sith play with each other.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Master-Nala

[chuixupu]

That might get you through Act I, but I simply see no reason for any rational person to stick around after Act II. And while there are quite a few good people, even good Sith, in the Empire, the Empire itself is evil.

This is the point where one needs to write in their own character's background and personality. Obviously your agent feels this way. Some people chose to play their agent as bloodthirsty assassins who share the general hatred of the Republic and enjoy the position of power that they have. Some people actually did take the "defect to the SIS" option. In my case, my character was more about personal loyalty, knowing what he's good at, having some degree of perhaps naive idealism. Don't know if you ever watched Burn Notice, but I can see my agent being somewhat like Michael Weston. It would be so much easier to just settle down and get out of all the espionage madness, especially after being completely screwed by your superiors, but he's far too stubborn for that. He allows himself to be used as a pawn, because he can see a few moves ahead and it's a small sacrifice to get what he wants out of the exchange.

At least from chapter II on, you even tell the Minister that you're done once you finish the mission you're working on (well, you have the option to tell him that, I don't know if you did).

 

And seeing the Sith as annoyances just doesn't hold water for me. They rule the Empire. They set themselves out as nobility and brutally enforce that. A non-force user is seen as their tool, but more to the point, that's really all the Agent can be in that system.

 

The Sith aren't invincible. You see for yourself. I think the Minister of Intelligence explains pretty well throughout the story why he was doing what he did, and how his feelings changed over time. By taking the black codex, you have gained an additional degree of power. and now you're no longer completely at the whims of the Sith.

 

My point exactly. The Chiss would hardly need to put up with the Sith Empire's silly bigotry. As I went through the story, I continually found myself asking, "Well I have an unregistered ship. I could head out to the Chiss Ascendency and screw these crazy Imperials. Why am I doing this now?"

 

I think you should have asked why you roll a Chiss in the Empire in the first place. Did you ever read the books about Thrawn and how he had to face a lot of bigotry in the Empire before becoming the first alien Grand Admiral? He never seemed like a truly evil character (he never had any malice in his decisions, he even behaved with nobility on occasion)...but he seemed to have a vision for the Empire that he wanted to make his own, and he certainly did whatever was necessary to achieve it..

 

I know that if you take the dark side option at the end, the Minister tells you that you've "struck a blow" for the Ascendancy for power in the Empire.

My Chiss agent, on the other hand, was already on bad terms with his own people and couldn't go back, but that's for RP storytelling time.

 

Fair enough. But help me out. Do you see your agents as patriots? As folks who don't have any choice, i.e. slaves to the Sith?

 

Not a patriot, just a professional that didn't really know exactly what he was getting into.

 

The other non-force user class, the Bounty Hunter, is treated with a certain amount of grudging (if patronizing) respect by the Empire. The Agent, and the story all but says this, is treated like a pawn in the silly games the Sith play with each other.

 

I've often told people before they decide to roll on a class that some kinds of people won't like the Agent story for this very reason. It's not a hero's story, or even a villain's story. You're used and abused and treated like crap. Simply, not everyone can get into that type of character, but many find it fascinating.

 

I don't see threads like these continuously popping up for other classes.

Edited February 7, 2013 by chuixupu

[Master-Nala]

I've often told people before they decide to roll on a class that some kinds of people won't like the Agent story for this very reason. It's not a hero's story, or even a villain's story. You're used and abused and treated like crap. Simply, not everyone can get into that type of character, but many find it fascinating.

 

I don't see threads like these continuously popping up for other classes.

 

I agree with that. Personally, I think the biggest issue people have with the Consular story is that they don't want to play Jedi Consulars they just wanted the powers.

 

I've also found that certain ways you play through the story can have an effect on how you look at it. Knowing what happens, I've played my Sniper as a kind of "screw this, I'm going to work against these morons as much as I can." Being insolent is fun!

Edited February 8, 2013 by Master-Nala

[chuixupu]

Personally, I liked the Consular story. I think a lot of people base their feelings on the first chapter alone, which is by far the least interesting of the three. If there is one valid complaint I'd make about it, it's that I felt like you are being shoehorned into being the good and noble person far too much. I didn't see any motivation for the Consular to make dark side decisions.

[midianlord]

Plot, depth, plot-twists, great characters --the IA has the best/most interesting companions, bar none, except for that brain-dead slag Kaliyo-- depth, a nice seasoning of British humour (type: deadpan cutting sarcastic irreverence) and did I mention depth?

 

The other stories are just a bit too based around a single --or at most two-- old, old Star Wars tropes, with the possible exception of the Bounty Hunter.

 

E:

 

 

1 There's a reason the James Bond franchise has lasted as long as it has and the Agent story captures some of it.

2 It is one of the only classes where your choices alter the story past the typical light and darkside storylines.

3 It doesn't copy Thrawn, Tarkin, Bothan Spies as much as the other storylines do with there archetype model. Way more original and less predictable because of it.

4. The writer went out of his way and took a risk.

 

In other words, ^^this.^^

Edited April 16, 2013 by midianlord

[quirez]

In my opinions its becouse of tha "bad" things that happen in it:

 

 

there are many situations in the plot that make you take them very personal - lets take Zhorrid for example - i wonder how many of you did not think "oh damn you stupid **^#Q! #(!%&() #*%&q how the #&% dare you @%*#(#% when she tortured Keeper and still you couldnt do anything about it?

or the brainwashing? i really wanted to shout the same stuff as above again but in the face of that stinkin jedi who ordered me around.

 

hard choices have similiar effect - "do i let hundreds of people die to catch that bastard or do i let him flee and kill more?"

 

 

its a nice trick from the writers, it makes you seriously engaged in the story.

 

the BH story has a similiar trick used and it feels really good as well

 

also - i did only 2 acts, dont know what the 3rd hides from me

[Stonehound]

With regards to Act 1, I really feel like the story completely wasted a perfect opportunity with...

...The guys in the maskless Jadus suits that we saw in Jadus's office on Dromund Kaas during the prologue. They never appeared again, even though there were not one, not two, but THREE different ways to use them as justification for Jadus not dying in the Dominator bombing.

 

"It was a body double"? Nope. Would have worked, too; body doubles are a classic staple of intrigue fiction.

 

"They were prepared ahead of time as spare vessels for my spirit, and I bodysurfed into one?" Nope. Would have worked, too; Emperor Palpatine did it in the EU, and Zash tried to do it in the Inquisitor storyline.

 

"Jadus has been dead for years; we're an alliance of no-name Sith with vision and ambition playing a cunning shell game, and Zhorrid is in on the act"? Nope. Would have worked, too; nothing says "you're in the deep end now" like finding out that multiple basic premises of the plot are complete lies. It also would have explained the overwrought hamminess of the "inoculation" scene - that wasn't the most un-Sith of all the Sith lords turning into a cliche for one scene, it was one of the less subtle fakes deliberately being as stereotypically Sithy as possible to keep people from realizing that there is no Sith lord at Imerial Intelligence's helm.

 

Instead of getting any of those - or even something suitably spy-fiction-y that didn't involve the Jadus-alikes, like the Dominator containing a small stealth-capable shuttle that slipped away while nobody could see it - we got Because Force telekinesis, that's why.