unixbomber Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've never seen it... I don't think I've ever had a problem 1v1 vs a sniper or any ranged DPS class with my 2 melee classes. IMO the only classes capable of attacking nodes are melee DPS.... defending is melee DPS and of course tanks. Solo attacking or defending of course. Of course all of this is subject to skill... Posting up on top of the node in cover with full terrain reach, knockback, roots and access to 20 seconds of cc invulnerability can be beast. I wouldn't go out of my way to use them as defenders but have seen it done quite well. I like to keep a head count on the other team irregardless of who is defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharterMonkKent Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've never seen it... I don't think I've ever had a problem 1v1 vs a sniper or any ranged DPS class with my 2 melee classes. IMO the only classes capable of attacking nodes are melee DPS.... defending is melee DPS and of course tanks. Solo attacking or defending of course. Of course all of this is subject to skill... I think sniper + a stealth class are great for defending. Can't leap to a sniper, stealth knocks attacker flat. That's not counting engineer sniper's plasma probe. That's 25 seconds of no capping before the sniper needs to peak around a corner to attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Any ranged DPS class??? Well I guess the above posts show how a sniper can hold a node.... that was obvious orbital strike Plasma Probe Engineer sniper Stealth Hunker Down 20 sec of not being stunned Shield probe dodge 3 sec of immunity to any range attack. Lets not even look at plasma probe vs the 31 madness... AOE+ROOT/STUN+DOT+INSTANT. Slightly longer cooldown but hey.... Whats the next range DPS? Look I have put up 600k+ in a warzone on my sorc but it is fluff damage. Sorcs are just a support DPS kiting class right now with fluffed numbers. TOTAL FLUFF Even healing numbers are AOE fluff. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kegparty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You have a choice on your rated team: Sniper vs Sorc equally talented players but the sorc gets higher damage at the end of the WZ... I would much rather bring the sniper for utility/surv and single target DPS burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 You have a choice on your rated team: Sniper vs Sorc equally talented players but the sorc gets higher damage at the end of the WZ... I would much rather bring the sniper for utility/surv and single target DPS burst. I understand the burst thing more than anything... Having gone from carnage, to annihilation and back to carnage. As many benefits as I see with annihilation. Carnage is simply more useful for the burst alone. I can just see potential in 2 sorcs working synchronized... the rate in which we burn down targets and being able to do it from 30m away, is impressive. Having a marauder and a PT as my main so far I think a lot of the surprise is assuming this class would be horrible and useless. After some field testing I'm seeing a lot o potential but again... it's still early and I recognize that. I'm not suggesting everyone stack 4 sorcs on their rated teams or anything. But I am looking forward to putting our "shake and bake" team to the test in 50's and rated. I think if done properly and coordinated it could be more useful than many assume. We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Look I have put up 600k+ in a warzone on my sorc but it is fluff damage. Sorcs are just a support DPS kiting class right now with fluffed numbers. TOTAL FLUFF Even healing numbers are AOE fluff. My friend broke a million healing last week in a hybrid healing spec on his sage in a civil war I duo healed with him. Would that be considered bubble fluff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 My friend broke a million healing last week in a hybrid healing spec on his sage in a civil war I duo healed with him. Would that be considered bubble fluff? AOE fluff and frankly with a million healing it means your team lacked the ability to DPS a target down sufficiently/ target the healers. 1 mill = both teams sitting around consistently healing with a few decent DPS that did not know how to focus on a healer or much less the 3+ healers on your team and theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 In this game every AC has 1-2 secondary stats that are the most important for them. While stacking stats that are not these "priority" stats will still give them a benefit, they would benefit more from stacking their priority. WIth Sorcs, Alacrity actually serves to hurt your character since all it really does is make you go Out of Force much more quickly while adding no real benefit (healers with their ridiculously long cast times may actually get some marginal use from Alacrity and are the exception to the rule). I thought most of the QQ was along the lines of "most of our abilities self root and have long casts!" so obviously alacrity is prioritized on gear. It's there on all the Scoundrel healer sets too because that's what it's good for in PvP, making you more mobile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 AOE fluff and frankly with a million healing it means your team lacked the ability to DPS a target down sufficiently/ target the healers. 1 mill = both teams sitting around consistently healing with a few decent DPS that did not know how to focus on a healer or much less the 3+ healers on your team and theirs. Two healers. Scoundrel and sage. The center node was never capped. I have to admit even I am impressed by his AOE fluff without any actual AOE healing being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The problem with sorc is so simple and is the problem with all dot classes. Just please think about this once. Sorcs are OP in ... low lvl pvp (lower health pools along with lack of and/or worse healers and scaling of dots aren't as affected as much) pugstomping (spread dots without fear and do whatever you want pvp without healers (can dot ppl up and with no purges and or healing it can really add up if you keep your range) padding chart numbers (obvious) The madness spec was actually buffed from when I was lvl'n my sorc and I thought it was dumb op in low lvl pvp back then. Furthermore a good sorc will be capable of very high dmg (and will likely do this sometimes just for laughs and to show he can) but will actually do less dmg instead focusing on his strengths like utility and when is dmg'n will try to focus more on one player (which is lower dmg) since he can still focus one player down pretty well. Just not nearly as well as other dps classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Two healers. Scoundrel and sage. The center node was never capped. I have to admit even I am impressed by his AOE fluff without any actual AOE healing being used. No salvation? What spec? What level? Why am I am entertaining an I did 1 million healing post without any evidence? Another choice... ops or sorc both equally as good skill wise you are most likely going to pick the ops regardless of what your "friend" did in an I "assume" rated PVP match. Lets keep on talking about what can fix the class without making another OP sorc wraith chain lightning. I would love to ditch my 50 pyro and 35 mara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrrion Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I've never seen it... I don't think I've ever had a problem 1v1 vs a sniper or any ranged DPS class with my 2 melee classes. IMO the only classes capable of attacking nodes are melee DPS.... defending is melee DPS and of course tanks. Solo attacking or defending of course. Of course all of this is subject to skill... Seriously? You have never seen a sniper completely dominate when defending against one (and usually 2 attackers)? They have all the tools, one melee doesn't stand a chance before a sniper can lock you down, yawn, go out for a smoke and then call for backup. Exception would be if the melee is stealth. I don't know what server you play on but they must have some seriously average players on it. Based on your three paragraphs above, just what ARE ranged DPS useful for in your game? They can't attack, they can't defend, do they just make up the numbers if there aren't enough melee or tanks to make up a team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I disagree. The 31 point Balance talent is IMO the best of the sage 31 point talents. It's very strong although ofc, won't save you from a zerg Helps if you solo hold points as well as pulling someone off an objective, and of course rooting a white barred ball carrier in the fire It's a low dot that steals crits from deathfield. The points you have to waste to get it means that you can't spec for force management in the Lightning tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) No salvation? What spec? What level? Why am I am entertaining an I did 1 million healing post without any evidence? Another choice... ops or sorc both equally as good skill wise you are most likely going to pick the ops regardless of what your "friend" did in an I "assume" rated PVP match. Lets keep on talking about what can fix the class without making another OP sorc wraith chain lightning. I would love to ditch my 50 pyro and 35 mara No salvation, believe the spec is 24/12/4 or what would be the sage equivalent of a sorc going up to innervate and life surge for the damage reduction, grabbing electric bindings equivalent from the lightning tree and the willpower and further damage reduction from the madness tree. He's full war hero and has swapped out all of his mods and enhancements to maximize power outside of willpower augments. I'm aware the current general perception is that they are bad healers and while I think removing the 1.5 second induction buff from the next dark infusion heal was a huge mistake they can still be very effective when played well. I healed a ranked warzone last night with a sage healer that refused to kite and tried to face tank anything coming at him. Needless to say that didn't go well. I do honestly love healing with a good sage as a well timed bubble with an emergency medpack can buy enough time to bring people up faster than you'd think. I also play and have a sorcerer at level 50 and run a similar build. That being said, I've been on the receiving end of 3 powertechs and a rage juggernaut so I understand how much burst exists. I think the class could benefit from a revamp of the healing line as a stagnant healing pool is simply boring to heal with, allowing it to apply to people within a radius similar to the operative / scoundrel equivalent would be well received as it would at least have some mobility. Additionally, having a similar skill added that greatly increased alacrity, similar to the critical chance increase, to quickly executing inductions even when being attacked would be interesting as well, in my opinion. I'd personally like the healing line to have some additional protection elements even over healing skills. Edited August 9, 2012 by unixbomber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I thought one was not allowed to comment on the balance, op'ness, or up'ness of a class until said class is taken to level 50 and had at least BM gear? LOL 10-49 bracket.....right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 LOL 10-49 bracket.....right? Exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 24/12/4 let us know at 50 playing ranked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahak Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I leveled a sorc to 50 and stopped playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 let us know at 50 playing ranked That was at 50 playing ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Ive noticed getting the top tier of the sorc trees are pointless. Maybe that is something that needs to change. The last sentence I agree with. It's sad we are squishy cannon without the cannon part. It's more of a slow bleed class that allows your team to get rocked before you can take someone down. I disagree sever force is a very good talent (damage isn't great) but the root has saved me a million times. Not to mention ball carriers hate me because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Being an imp is even worse in my opinion. You have a lightning trail to yourself (HEY LOOK AT ME ILL GO DOWN IN 5 sec). At least rocks are invisible. The better question is: Who can we 1v1? Can you afford one miss click to even have a chance? I know if I miss my rotation on my sorc its toast. Maybe orange gear would help us blend in. The sorc WH gear is like a flag Granted im very well geared, But I can 1 vs 1 every class. Not saying i Can beat every person in game. Just saying that very rarely do I die in a 1 vs 1. Most my deaths are because im being attacked by multiple enemies. But Im sorry I should die in those situations. To many sorc/sages go hybrid and cry about survivability. As a 7-3-31 Balance sage I have good survivability (get lots of mini heals from FiB and all my dots that crit) I got my Force Armor. I can get off my Big heal in 2.18 seconds (which if i use Force Potency first will crit for 5 to 6 k) Again my only real complaint are Weaken Mind and Sever force dots are way to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLordMaster Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Well this is funny because coming from a top rated sorceress and having a 50 Marauder and Vangaurd I can say w/o a doubt that they are over powered. The defensive cooldowns on a marauder are a absolute dream and the brust damage of a vanguard is draw droppingly simple w/ 3 buttons. In fact i've been told multiple times by my guild that when server xfers come i need to get an alt on my server. Edited August 9, 2012 by TheLordMaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kegparty Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 That was at 50 playing ranked. 24/12/4 = 40 Do pubs only get 40 points at 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 AOE fluff and frankly with a million healing it means your team lacked the ability to DPS a target down sufficiently/ target the healers. 1 mill = both teams sitting around consistently healing with a few decent DPS that did not know how to focus on a healer or much less the 3+ healers on your team and theirs. lol you dumb. she said hybrid healer....that means no aoe heal. for now on none of your arguements about how we bad are going to hold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaangdar Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Except this is the answer in every situation. I get attacked by <insert class here>, use KB, slow, stun, and force speed in some combination to run away to some location where I can't do anything to help my team. Well you help your team by taking that PT/VG out of the match and on a wild goose chase because he/she is trying to get that fuzzy feeling he/she gets by killing you ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a 50 Sorc healer in BM/WH gear. I do pretty well and he is alot of fun to play. But as always with a bad team your going to get decemated. Knowing your role is important, I stick by a tank and dps while spaming dots and heals. I have almost 0 dps but always top the charts in heals which helps the team way more than killing another player. When I go DPS with him , I always find a pre-engaged target and burst him, I AOE a goup and help focus fire. I also root Sents/Maras and force speed up to slingers/snipers then knock them out of their cover. I get in the top 3 in damage almost always with low deaths because DPS is a support class (like the healer) we are made to lay the hurt while another tanks the damage. Until people starting playing the class correctly and stop trying to tank a heavy armored PT/VG in light armor with next to no damage midigation then your always going to feel like your class sucks. EDIT* The statement above the line is for the quote, the rest is just me adding to the thread. Edited August 9, 2012 by gaangdar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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