To the Dungeon Finder nay sayers

[Racheakt]

Incorrect, and here's why.

LFG pairs you up with whoever is in the queue. When you hand pick your groups you have a lot more control over who comes and who goes without cool downs.

Don't want a Bounty Hunter? No problem. You don't invite one.

Cant' stand it when people aren't modded correctly? No big deal. Don't invite them.

Don't want a jerk in your group? Make some small talk as you wait. If they don't fit what you want in a group you can simply find someone else.

 

So using /1 to find your groups gives everyone far more control over who goes and making sure the group is the right fit for you.

 

We are talking about a PUG finder here...

 

IF i want a perfectly optimized group, i go to my friends list (RL friends and the rare online only friend), then to my guild. But at that point we are not talking about a LFD system, we are forming a group.

 

No one expects perfection in PUG, in WoW I would as a tank find a friend/guild healer and PUG the DPS. I met many interesting people through the LFD system. YMMV

Edited December 19, 2011 by Racheakt

[Thor_Doomhammer]

Certainly agree that they need something, even if it's only a page with a list of names underneath headings for each flashpoint/heroic. That way you'd still have to invoke a conversation to get a group, and could pick and choose to avoid people you knew were ******s.

 

As much as I understand the anti-LFG tool comments, and as much as I think WoW's system has flaws, that game is so much better with it than the days when you had to spend an hour stood in Ogrimmar spamming LFG UBRS only to have the tank leave after the first pull.

[Buur]

Sound like ****** friends.

 

Mine will even run a flashpoint with me multiple times to get a specific gear drop, even if they've outleveled the place and have no reason to be there.

 

I believe we may have differing definitions of the word "friend".

 

Ya, ****** friends I have. God, sometimes they want to do something other than the things I feel like doing and won't drop everything in a second to come running. How dare they.

 

Sounds like your definition of friends is "minions".

[Rhonen]

Considering I refuse a group invite unless the person /say or /tells me first, yes, all my groups have been chatty.

 

Some of them have even been entirely in character.

 

I know, I know, we RPers and our crazy ability to socialize and act respectfully.

 

We so crazy.

So for us who don't RP, or play on RP servers, I guess we're SOL? Great community

[Miyaka]

In addition, you make friends...you find the good people...and you develop relationships. Jerks will end up on ignorel lists and need to have better behavior to be sought out for groups. Building a network is part of a MMO imo, making it more fun overall. WoW destroyed it with the LFG Tool across servers, there is no accountability, no network, no need to get to know who you are playing with.

 

Totally agree.

I have met some of the most amazing people that I am proud to call friends in this manner.

 

And yes...LFG does remove all accountability and the motivation for a lot of people to act decently while in groups.

[Theloneas]

I havent had any problems with the system so far, and thats as dps. I usually LFG in chat for a few minutes and if no one offers I start my own group...usually takes 5-10 minutes to fill.

I look at it this way-even if there is a "dungeon finder" as WoW has-i would still be waiting the same amount of time to get into it, and could get into a dungeon with some rude ppl, ninjas etc...the way swtor is set up i acutally get to speak to the ppl prior to the flashpoint and get a "feeler"of how they act.

A LFG tool is take it or leave it for myself, but i would be sad if it was implemented cross server as thats where alot of the "community" feel goes away.

[Yfelsung]

Ya, ****** friends I have. God, sometimes they want to do something other than the things I feel like doing and won't drop everything in a second to come running. How dare they.

 

Sounds like your definition of friends is "minions".

 

Yes, because I have never dropped stuff to help them. Never. Can't happen. Impossible.

 

It's called a friendship.

 

It's a game, nothing I'm doing is so important that I can't stop and help my friend.

 

Again, I have a feeling there is a significant difference between people who play on RP servers and people who don't.

 

Going by the ways you guys have described your experiences in MMOs, non-RP servers sound downright frightening.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Yfelsung

[Taekoma]

the thing is they can see the metrics of how many people are actually running flashpoints and see its a total failure. They can spend all the time making new flashpoints but if there is not a better way to get groups together it is wasted time.

 

The LFG tool keeps casual people paying $15 per month.

[ZalTaur]

To everyone arguing that LFG keeps you from hand-picking your group, I ask how? Because it occurs to me that you can still sift through the who list for hours looking for the perfect group. If anything, letting us unsophisticated yahoos use LFG should improve your odds of avoiding us. Why argue against the option?

[Baizak]

So, my experience with the feeble lfg tool that is there.

 

I have a somewhat busy life outside of gaming what with a family and a job, so my playtime is usually limited per day. I got home late last night figuring I had around two hours to play because I have to get up early to get the kids off to school. Knowing my time was going to be limited, the night before I had deliberately logged out of the game at the entrance to a heroic +2 so that I could look for a group straight away. I then indicated that I was lfg for that Heroic, and also spammed a lfg message in chat for it.

 

After twenty minutes with no responses, I went back to main hub to turn in some quests. Still no response. Went about visiting trainer and vendors, still no response. There's another twenty minutes. By this time I look at my clock and see how much time I have left to play. I figure I could travel to where the next quests are sending me, but that means that if I do get a group, even if I use quick travel I will be five minutes getting there. So still holding out hope, and still lfg in the who, and still spamming, I head back to the entrance of the heroic. Another five minutes burnt. I stand there for another ten minutes, and finally someone responds. Though not to the lfg non-tool (I say that because a tool is useful). It's a group of two that were questing in the area and read my spam. We stand at the entrance (since we were all done the quests in the area) for another fifteen minutes. I try to strike up a convo with the other two, but I'm assuming they're talking between themselves because I get nothing back. We finally get a fourth, but the player is quite far away, so another five minutes before they show up.

 

So we enter. The first group of mobs is a wipe because the two that are dps don't seem to know what they're supposed to do, and no one seems to know about my Force Lift. First one player states they think we're too low for the run (which we aren't) and leaves. Then another says they have to go to do something with their guild (I've used that excuse myself ), so that's that. The two of us that are left go out of the instance. Another ten minutes blown. The other person asks if I want to try again, I say yes, so we stand and wait while spamming.

 

Fifteen minutes later still no takers. I look at the clock and see that even if we do get a group together it will have to go perfect for me to be able to complete. So I log out having essentially done nothing.

 

/sarcasmon

 

Great game experience that is. That sure improved the social aspect of the game for me.

 

/sarcasmoff

 

I personally don't think there's a need for a cross server Dungeon Finder ........yet, but please Bioware, get a server specific one up and running as soon as possible. Not having it is going a long way in killing this game for this casual player.

 

 

Actually they just need a meeting stone at each heroic area/ dungeon. I would group more, but it can take forever waiting on someone across the map, or running across the map myself and feeling bad for holding folks up.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Baizak

[Miyaka]

We are talking about a PUG finder here...

 

IF i want a perfectly optimized group, i go to my friends list (RL friends and the rare online only friend), then to my guild. But at that point we are not talking about a LFD system, we are forming a group.

 

No one expects perfection in PUG, in WoW I would as a tank find a friend/guild healer and PUG the DPS. I met many interesting people through the LFD system. YMMV

 

I'm talking about PUGs too. I thought that was the topic.

[Cameirus]

Wait wait I want to be clear here you're talking about a heroic (group) quest right, not a actual flashpoint (dungeon) meaning that even if this game had a LFG system it wouldn't have been any help to you?

.

 

Why cant you have a LFG for quests?

 

There is one in other current MMOs.

[Rhonen]

I have not had any problems finding a group when I didn't have guildies on. The groups I did find were found fast and some of those people are now on my friends list. Not everyone has been "chatty" but no one has been a pr*ck yet either.

 

This is on the Ebon Hawk server. Bunch of great people there. Maybe because it is an RP server.

Well, it's nice to know that my experience with non-chatty groups isn't a fluke, and that other players experience the same, even on RP servers.

 

I think this may be the factor.

 

Apparently non-RP servers are hives of scum and villainy going by these guy's experiences.

And I never said the players were all bad. Where do you get that they are hives of scum and villainy from my posts? I just said they weren't chatty. They were just there for the group, dont' chat, then leave. It appears I'm not the only one, as it happens on RP servers, too. So how does grouping with players that don't chat, just join up to do the content, then leave, build community?

[Yfelsung]

Well, it's nice to know that my experience with non-chatty groups isn't a fluke, and that other players experience the same, even on RP servers.

 

 

And I never said the players were all bad. Where do you get that they are hives of scum and villainy from my posts? I just said they weren't chatty. They were just there for the group, dont' chat, then leave. It appears I'm not the only one, as it happens on RP servers, too. So how does grouping with players that don't chat, just join up to do the content, then leave, build community?

 

I don't know how you build communities on non-RP servers.

 

On RP servers, the non-chatty player is a RARITY. They exist, sure, but they're few and far between.

 

I apologize for assuming other servers were as social. Apparently they are not.

[Basiliscus]

I don't know how you build communities on non-RP servers.

 

On RP servers, the non-chatty player is a RARITY. They exist, sure, but they're few and far between.

 

I apologize for assuming other servers were as social. Apparently they are not.

 

I was actually surprised, im on a PvP server with a 50 min queue last night. So far, general channels seem pretty dead for a MMO launch, that might be due to chat bugs that I've heard from people, not being able to type in or see party/general/guild chat, but almost no one talks, ever.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Basiliscus

[Jett-Rinn]

I would say an improvement on the current tool as a first step.

 

if it comes to a LFD it needs to be sever specific and have an easy way (say a right click option) to report abusive disrespectful behavior and a two strike rule that if you act like a jerk call people names or yell gogogogo you will either be banned from using the LFD Permanently or banned from the entire game. Also a limit on the number of times you could use a LFD per week would be a good idea.

 

That is the only way I think it would be acceptable in a game like SWTOR, take away the crutch factor and get tough on abuses. What needs to stop happening though is polarization on both sides of the issue…it accomplishes nothing and basically turns the community into something you guys claim you don’t want it to be…..just like WoW’s

[gingerbill]

they should have a dungeon finder but limit it to your own server and see how thats goes.

[Black_Rabbit]

This "community loss"argument to oppose LFG is total BS

 

I have always used /LFG channel to find group, and not the Dungeon Finders in games like these, I have met hundreds of a55hats, do I remember anyone of them? NOPE, have I played with the same a55hats without remembering? YES (Ignores lists are limited, so you have no way to remember, and no, I won't write down a paper list)

 

So, with DF: Will I meet a55hats? YES, will I remember them next time? NOPE

 

I have a life, and cannot honestly be bothered remembering the virtual, silly, unpronounceable names of online weirdos, so LFG or DF, makes no difference to community, except, with 1 of them, you get in quick and do not spam the general chat, which was not meant to be used for LFG.

 

And like someone there before said, the WoW argument? That is also total BS, WoW was still blooming by the time they introduced DF, yes maybe the hardcore had left, but the game was not declining because of DF.

[Yfelsung]

I was actually surprised, im on a PvP server with a 50 min queue last night. So far, general channels seem pretty dead for a MMO launch, that might be due to chat bugs that I've heard from people, not being able to type in or see party/general/guild chat, but almost no one talks, ever.

 

Might I suggest an RP-PvP server? They're not quite as nice/chatty as RP-PvE servers, but they're a little better than a stock PvP server for player community.

 

RP elitist *********s only make up about 5% of the population of my RP servers.

[Basiliscus]

Might I suggest an RP-PvP server? They're not quite as nice/chatty as RP-PvE servers, but they're a little better than a stock PvP server for player community.

 

RP elitist *********s only make up about 5% of the population of my RP servers.

 

Ive had bad experiences on rp servers, and rp in general, dont care for it at all. Also i'm playing with my guild, otherwise I'd probably be on a pve.

[Ethern]

And what exactly did they do before LFD? Sat around the bank spamming /2, because they had no other choice.

Indeed. The old good way is not always the best way.

[Rhonen]

I don't know how you build communities on non-RP servers.

 

On RP servers, the non-chatty player is a RARITY. They exist, sure, but they're few and far between.

 

I apologize for assuming other servers were as social. Apparently they are not.

I was actually surprised, im on a PvP server with a 50 min queue last night. So far, general channels seem pretty dead for a MMO launch, that might be due to chat bugs that I've heard from people, not being able to type in or see party/general/guild chat, but almost no one talks, ever.

I'm more surprised that not including a LFD tool wasn't the magical bullet that would blossom a wellspring of community bonding.

 

For one thing, I noticed that a lot of players don't keep an eye on the chat window, either because it scrolls by too fast and they miss your chat, or they are just paying attention to the screen/combat and not chat. This is easily remedied by chat bubbles. THAT would go a long way to promoting community, people just don't pay attention to chat windows.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Rhonen

[silverdanta]

An in server LFG tool would be usefull. There is no reason not to have it. Personally I have yet to come across a time when I have not found a group but mileage may vary for other servers. I do like what BW did with the heroics. Having them repeatable makes for grouping with others more likely at least, gotta give credit for that.

[Ethern]

I don't know how you build communities on non-RP servers.

 

On RP servers, the non-chatty player is a RARITY. They exist, sure, but they're few and far between.

 

I apologize for assuming other servers were as social. Apparently they are not.

But where do you get your facts from? I am currently on the Sanctum of the Exalted server, RP-PvE, and what you describe is not the rule.

I am lucky so far I have done many of my heroics quests without the LFG tool, but sometimes it is needed, because you know, people are not always at your disposal or available. Even guilders that you are so proud about.

I don't understand this narrow minded mentality.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Ethern

[silverdanta]

I'm more surprised that not including a LFD tool wasn't the magical bullet that would blossom a wellspring of community bonding.

 

For one thing, I noticed that a lot of players don't keep an eye on the chat window, either because it scrolls by too fast and they miss your chat, or they are just paying attention to the screen/combat and not chat. This is easily remedied by chat bubbles. THAT would go a long way to promoting community, people just don't pay attention to chat windows.

 

Chat bubbles could help but something like how SWG....ugh.

 

Other thing to remember, people are engrossed in the story, they could have their chat bar hidden to have a better experience with the story, or their more focused on leveling to get their legacy name before it gets snagged.