F2P >Facts< here (Sources provided)

[Elboc]

If it gets stickied - no one will read it. Just bump it lol. Good thread OP.

[arkzehhh]

nice post. People need to see that all spelled out for them.

 

+1

 

...

[Monoth]

Stuff that hasn't happened where? This is the exact system LOTRO uses. STO does it. Any system that gives a cash shop allowance to their premium subs will contain cash shop exclusive items, and depending on how many there are, even that allowance won't cover them all.

 

he knows this is true thats why he won't argue it.... Bottom line is All content is NOT free to paying subscribers....

of course he will try to argue that items on the cash shop are not considered content.... even tho its specifically made for the game and used in the game but some how thats not content... hmmmmm

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Here's a fact for you, stuff in the cash shop will require "Paid Subscribers" to pay extra for said content... Which basically already shows that EA/Bioware has lied in saying that "Paid Subscribers" would get "Everything" free, otherwise they wouldn't be giving "Paid Subscribers" Cartel Coin allowances each month, these allowances are given because the content in the cash shop is NOT free to Paid Subscribers and the amount of coins paid subscribers get will not cover all the content in the cash shop... To think otherwise makes you very naive...

 

Eventually Pay to Win items will be put on the cash shop.... EA is notorious for being greedy..... Hell at one time EA was playing with the idea of charging Battlefield players PER Bullet.... shows their mentality....

 

No they haven't lied. Cosmetic items added to the shop are not content. They have not said that you will get every single thing for free as a subscriber.

 

This is some of the new content that subscribers will get for free "a new Operation, Terror From Beyond, a new heroic mission series on the planet of Belsavis; a set of level 50 space combat missions for those looking for the ultimate challenge mode; introduction of a dangerous new Companion to accompany you; and for our PvP fans, a new warzone, Ancient Hypergate!"

[Wolfninjajedi]

Stuff that hasn't happened where? This is the exact system LOTRO uses. STO does it. Any system that gives a cash shop allowance to their premium subs will contain cash shop exclusive items, and depending on how many there are, even that allowance won't cover them all.

 

Its called saving up, so yes the allowance will/can cover anything.

[Gungan]

Its called saving up, so yes the allowance will/can cover anything.

 

Maybe if they never release new cash shop items. They can easily add so much stuff to the cash shop that you will never be able to purchase all the currently available items simultaneously on the allowance alone before new stuff is added.

 

A couple of new armor graphics a week and you're already out of cartel coins.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Gungan

[Monoth]

No they haven't lied. Cosmetic items added to the shop are not content. They have not said that you will get every single thing for free as a subscriber.

 

This is some of the new content that subscribers will get for free "a new Operation, Terror From Beyond, a new heroic mission series on the planet of Belsavis; a set of level 50 space combat missions for those looking for the ultimate challenge mode; introduction of a dangerous new Companion to accompany you; and for our PvP fans, a new warzone, Ancient Hypergate!"

 

ANYTHING made for the game is considered content..... Not sure how people got brainwashed by gaming companies into thinking "fluff" items are not content and everyone should pay extra for them...

Edited August 6, 2012 by Monoth

[Monoth]

Its called saving up, so yes the allowance will/can cover anything.

 

Why should paying subscribers have to save up for anything?!? were already paying a monthly fee.....

 

Before F2P all fluff items were part of the game, now because it went F2P it's OK to rip off your paying subscribers by making them pay extra for items that used to be free... the sad thing is people actually defend this type of business practice.... wow...

 

Now IF Bioware made all cash shop items attainable in game for subscribers then I wouldn't have an issue... How about as rare drops from Bosses in Operations?!? gives incentive for people to do more Operations and it keeps F2P players from getting them for free since there locked out of Operations...

Edited August 6, 2012 by Monoth

[Celebrus]

ANYTHING made for the game is considered content..... Not sure how people got brainwashed by gaming companies into thinking "fluff" items are not content and everyone should pay extra for them...

 

Just so you know, you should really *read* what they say and not *read into* what they have said.

 

They said that all subscribers will have free access to all "content updates" and what exactly that means is up to them to decide.

 

They can really do whatever they want in this situation, if they want you to have it for free, it's going into the content update, if they want to charge for it, they will simply call it a cartel coin item and throw it in the cash shop. It's fairly easy for them to get around giving ANYTHING to subscribers while still fulfilling their technical obligations.

 

The system is obviously being put in place to make up for a lack of expected income from the game, anyone trying to make it out to be them trying to provide us a better service is simply a sheep who I have some ocean front property in arizona I could probably sell to.

 

The point is they aren't doing this for anyone but themselves, regardless of how the OP or anyone else wants to paint the situation, any benefit (which there probably wont be) to you gamers that stick around, will be an accident, don't fool yourself.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Celebrus

[rlhaas]

Luckily Bioware doesn't make their business decisions based on what you think.

 

LOL, maybe if they had based some of their decisions on what informed posters were saying (especially during beta testing) they wouldn't be in the situation they're in now. Food for thought there, Nangle.

[Fisheyswan]

Just so you know, you should really *read* what they say and not *read into* what they have said.

 

They said that all subscribers will have free access to all "content updates" and what exactly that means is up to them to decide.

 

They can really do whatever they want in this situation, if they want you to have it for free, it's going into the content update, if they want to charge for it, they will simply call it a cartel coin item and throw it in the cash shop. It's fairly easy for them to get around giving ANYTHING to subscribers while still fulfilling their technical obligations.

 

The system is obviously being put in place to make up for a lack of expected income from the game, anyone trying to make it out to be them trying to provide us a better service is simply a sheep who I have some ocean front property in arizona I could probably sell to.

 

The point is they aren't doing this for anyone but themselves, regardless of how the OP or anyone else wants to paint the situation, any benefit (which there probably wont be) to you gamers that stick around, will be an accident, don't fool yourself.

 

QFT, BW/EA are a business, one that has obviously found some financial hiccup throughout the game's lifespan, the move into F2P will be simply to save and make more money to make up for losses, NOT because other games on the market are F2P so they feel they must follow suit. In addition, i have no doubt that as the game extends into the future EA/BW will ultimately milk the potential cash cow, as mentioned they can do anything they want in this situation I.E make more money!

Edited August 6, 2012 by Fisheyswan

[Nanglez]

LOL, maybe if they had based some of their decisions on what informed posters were saying (especially during beta testing) they wouldn't be in the situation they're in now. Food for thought there, Nangle.

 

Uhmmm pretty sure they'd consult with some sort of marketing expert rather then a QQing forum poster. And i think i posted this on another page, but I've been playing this game since beta aswell, ranting/whinging suggestions at bioware in general discussion has become a trend on these forums, a lot of people seem to miss the suggestion box at the top.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Nanglez

[DarthTHC]

Uhmmm pretty sure they'd consult with some sort of marketing expert rather then a QQing forum poster. And i think i posted this on another page, but I've been playing this game since beta aswell, ranting/whinging suggestions at bioware in general discussion has become a trend on these forums, a lot of people seem to miss the suggestion box at the top.

 

If they consulted with those "marketing experts", they certainly missed the boat, didn't they? Over 75% of the people who have ever played this game found it to not be worth 50 cents a day.

 

GG marketing experts?

[Nanglez]

If they consulted with those "marketing experts", they certainly missed the boat, didn't they? Over 75% of the people who have ever played this game found it to not be worth 50 cents a day.

 

GG marketing experts?

Well we'll have to wait and see how F2P works out. I don't think I've once claimed its going to be an astounding success, i'm just stating there's a lot of misinformation out there on the forums, and i think panicking and assuming the worst is pretty stupid. What happens if the game thrives after this? Are you going to hop on the forums and post about how you were wrong for not being optimistic.

 

I'll happily post about how I was wrong TO be optimistic, if and when the game actually flatlines. But as it stands i'm in one of the larger guilds on my server, all nice people, and my server has around 200ish people on fleet at peak times. So for now I'm content, F2P is still a little while off as is, so i'll happily enjoy all the content they throw out to combat the release of GW2 in a few weeks. As Star Wars the franchise has a larger fanbase then STO or LOTR, the other prime examples of F2P, plus it may attract in more of the Kotor fanbase, I suppose i'll happily remain more optimistic then you guys for now .

Edited August 6, 2012 by Nanglez

[Emeda]

You are out of your mind if you came to the conclusion they are charging new ops and wz to subscribers. It clearly says subs pay for nothing new

 

Then why give subs a certain amount of coins? Why not just give them a single coin that will never go away.

 

The subs can have access to everything in the game, but will either have to work to get it or pay for it like the F2P players will.

 

They said the cash shops will have mainly cosmetic items but will have some other stuff too. Ask your self this question.

 

What other way is there to get any item from the cash shop?

 

If the only way to get those items is from the cash shop then will the amount of coins you receive be enough to get all those items?

 

If the answer to either one of those questions is no, then you will not have access to everything. So in the end, in order to access everything in the game you will have to pay additional money in addition to your sub.

 

Yes you might be able to get into FP's and OP's for free where the F2P players will have to but it but you still are not getting access to everything in the game. Just wait until there is something in the shops that you want and realize you dont have enough coins. At that time you will realize the truth.

[DarthTHC]

Well we'll have to wait and see how F2P works out. I don't think I've once claimed its going to be an astounding success, i'm just stating there's a lot of misinformation out there on the forums, and i think panicking and assuming the worst is pretty stupid. What happens if the game thrives after this? Are you going to hop on the forums and post about how you were wrong for not being optimistic.

 

No, I won't be able to as my subscription will have lapsed. If somehow they manage to shock the s*** out of me and make the game worth subscribing to, maybe I will. But those of us who've seen this pattern before and understand who EA is and how they do things know better. This isn't panic. This is prediction.

 

I'll happily post about how I was wrong TO be optimistic, if and when the game actually flatlines. But as it stands i'm in one of the larger guilds on my server, all nice people, and my server has around 200ish people on fleet at peak times. So for now I'm content, F2P is still a little while off as is, so i'll happily enjoy all the content they throw out to combat the release of GW2 in a few weeks. As Star Wars the franchise has a larger fanbase then STO or LOTR, the other prime examples of F2P, plus it may attract in more of the Kotor fanbase, I suppose i'll happily remain more optimistic then you guys for now .

 

The game probably won't flatline. It just wont' be an MMO any more. It won't get much, if any new content. It certainly won't come anywhere close to the monthly content releases lead developers were bragging about shortly after release. In fact, it will probably be a much slower cadence than you see with LOTRO right now. It won't come close to what you see from Rift, whose 250,000 subscribers have seen, what, 5 content releases already?

 

Haven't we already seen that the SW IP did nothing for the game? Well, maybe that's untrue. It probably got a whole lot of people to try it. It probably has a few people hanging on in hopes that EA doesn't complete the destruction. But it's sure not doing for the game what another few really good ops and war zones would do, if only EA could be troubled to invest the effort.

[yoshua]

Then why give subs a certain amount of coins? Why not just give them a single coin that will never go away.

 

The subs can have access to everything in the game, but will either have to work to get it or pay for it like the F2P players will.

 

They said the cash shops will have mainly cosmetic items but will have some other stuff too. Ask your self this question.

 

What other way is there to get any item from the cash shop?

 

If the only way to get those items is from the cash shop then will the amount of coins you receive be enough to get all those items?

 

If the answer to either one of those questions is no, then you will not have access to everything. So in the end, in order to access everything in the game you will have to pay additional money in addition to your sub.

 

Yes you might be able to get into FP's and OP's for free where the F2P players will have to but it but you still are not getting access to everything in the game. Just wait until there is something in the shops that you want and realize you dont have enough coins. At that time you will realize the truth.

 

 

Cosmetic Items are Cosmetic and not needed to play the game. The monthly stipend granted to subbers can be used to get any cosmetic items they are wanting. Or, they can save them and if they decide to go F2P if OPS and Warzones are what they want then if they are available they can use the cartel points for those options.

 

Subbers shouldn't be given everything just because they pay 15$ a month. They should be given access to progression content. And yes I am a subber, and no I probably wont be dropping to f2p. I'll use my cartel points on the items I want from the shop, and that is how it should be.

[Leggomy]

Link me some source material that directly state's that, on swtor.com and i'll gladly change it. As i couldn't find the answer to the question myself, but... as i pointed out in your post, I THINK it will, doesn't mean i know it for certain.

 

I just find it hard to believe that thousands of game retailers around the world, that purchased copies of the game to sell, are expected to make $0 off their remaining copies. But that's just my thoughts.

 

How hard is it to understand that they said you can download and play the game FOR FREE? It only costs 14.99 right now from Origin and that includes 1 month sub to its basically free now. After the f2p launch you will be able to download the game and setup an account for free. Play for free from level 1-50. So why you would think it would cost money is beyond me when it clearly states the game will be free

 

I guess you didnt read the FAQ because its right here: http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6522.

Note it says you can DOWNLOAD and PLAY the game for free.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Leggomy

[Emeda]

Cosmetic Items are Cosmetic and not needed to play the game. The monthly stipend granted to subbers can be used to get any cosmetic items they are wanting. Or, they can save them and if they decide to go F2P if OPS and Warzones are what they want then if they are available they can use the cartel points for those options.

 

Subbers shouldn't be given everything just because they pay 15$ a month. They should be given access to progression content. And yes I am a subber, and no I probably wont be dropping to f2p. I'll use my cartel points on the items I want from the shop, and that is how it should be.

 

Thats the problem though. You as a subber will not have access to the items F2P players will have. The only way to get some items (be it cosmetic or not) is though the cash shops. So in order for you to get them you will have to buy them or save up coins. So a F2P can buy 15 bucks worth of coins and get to pick and choose what he wants while you the sub has to save up coins.

 

Again with that being said you know they are going to add the good stuff to the shops. So while you get the crappy looking gear from ops and FP they will get the cool looking gear first. That is unless you buy it

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Then why give subs a certain amount of coins? Why not just give them a single coin that will never go away.

 

The subs can have access to everything in the game, but will either have to work to get it or pay for it like the F2P players will.

 

They said the cash shops will have mainly cosmetic items but will have some other stuff too. Ask your self this question.

 

What other way is there to get any item from the cash shop?

 

If the only way to get those items is from the cash shop then will the amount of coins you receive be enough to get all those items?

 

Why should a subscriber be able to get all the items completely free? We can't currently get every single cosmetic item in the game for free, some have been discontinued and some we have to work for in game.

 

Thats the problem though. You as a subber will not have access to the items F2P players will have. The only way to get some items (be it cosmetic or not) is though the cash shops. So in order for you to get them you will have to buy them or save up coins. So a F2P can buy 15 bucks worth of coins and get to pick and choose what he wants while you the sub has to save up coins.

 

Again with that being said you know they are going to add the good stuff to the shops. So while you get the crappy looking gear from ops and FP they will get the cool looking gear first. That is unless you buy it

 

Yes you will have access to the items that F2P players will have, you can pay cash for them just like the frees do or save up your monthly coins and use those. Your $15 sub gets you access to game content which the frees will have to pay for (if they can get them at all), it means you don't have restrictions which the frees will have to pay for (if they can). You then get coins that you can spend in the shop for things that the frees will have to pay cash for.

 

Adding the "good stuff" is opinion not fact, I like the look of a lot of the end game sets. Some people might prefer shop cosmetics, others won't.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[ImperialSun]

Thats the problem though. You as a subber will not have access to the items F2P players will have. The only way to get some items (be it cosmetic or not) is though the cash shops. So in order for you to get them you will have to buy them or save up coins. So a F2P can buy 15 bucks worth of coins and get to pick and choose what he wants while you the sub has to save up coins.

 

Again with that being said you know they are going to add the good stuff to the shops. So while you get the crappy looking gear from ops and FP they will get the cool looking gear first. That is unless you buy it

 

That may be how things pan out...Id rather have access to the Ops as a subber and pay for anything I want out of the shop with my free cartel coins than not have access to the Ops as a F2Per though.

 

Driz

[yoshua]

Thats the problem though. You as a subber will not have access to the items F2P players will have. The only way to get some items (be it cosmetic or not) is though the cash shops. So in order for you to get them you will have to buy them or save up coins. So a F2P can buy 15 bucks worth of coins and get to pick and choose what he wants while you the sub has to save up coins.

 

Again with that being said you know they are going to add the good stuff to the shops. So while you get the crappy looking gear from ops and FP they will get the cool looking gear first. That is unless you buy it

 

as a subber of course I will have access to it. I'll have a free monthly stipend to spend, and I can always purchase more cartel points for COSMETIC items just the same way that F2P people will do.

 

Crappy looking gear? I use level 20 orang gear because I like the look of it, and rip the mods out of the ops gear. I have access, I am just not whining about the cost, when it cost the same for everyone to get the cosmetics.

 

F2P doesnt have access to ops at all, they will probably be able to purchase access, but by default they don't even have the option of getting the mods I'll have access to via subbing

[mothear]

as a subber of course I will have access to it. I'll have a free monthly stipend to spend, and I can always purchase more cartel points for COSMETIC items just the same way that F2P people will do.

 

Crappy looking gear? I use level 20 orang gear because I like the look of it, and rip the mods out of the ops gear. I have access, I am just not whining about the cost, when it cost the same for everyone to get the cosmetics.

 

F2P doesnt have access to ops at all, they will probably be able to purchase access, but by default they don't even have the option of getting the mods I'll have access to via subbing

 

Who's to say there won't be an Ops pack for sale in the shop for a one off fee?

 

I believe what some people are irritated at is that the OP provided some factual links then spun them to his opinion, which is just that, his opinion. He then goes on to disrespect anyone who disagrees with this 'assertions' as to what the facts mean.

 

A good example of his opinion is 'There will be no change for subbers'. Well the blurb already states that potions will be available in the shop and if these are attribute increasing potions that stack with Biochem they will become required for new raid content. Yes you can use up your stipend, but when that runs out you will be running back to the shop to buy more for real money. Note this is an 'If' but it doesn't say anywhere that they won't do it either.

 

Blind faith is the same as blind hatred, both get us nowhere. We have to wait until Bioware/EA provide us with further information, until then speculation is what these boards are good at and the OP sounds as bad as some of the people be is railing against.

[yoshua]

Who's to say there won't be an Ops pack for sale in the shop for a one off fee?

 

I believe what some people are irritated at is that the OP provided some factual links then spun them to his opinion, which is just that, his opinion. He then goes on to disrespect anyone who disagrees with this 'assertions' as to what the facts mean.

 

A good example of his opinion is 'There will be no change for subbers'. Well the blurb already states that potions will be available in the shop and if these are attribute increasing potions that stack with Biochem they will become required for new raid content. Yes you can use up your stipend, but when that runs out you will be running back to the shop to buy more for real money. Note this is an 'If' but it doesn't say anywhere that they won't do it either.

 

Blind faith is the same as blind hatred, both get us nowhere. We have to wait until Bioware/EA provide us with further information, until then speculation is what these boards are good at and the OP sounds as bad as some of the people be is railing against.

 

 

Well of course there will be 'change' no need to get into a squabble with anyone about that. But if Bioware decided to ONLY offer an operation in the shop and not provide access to it to the subscribers, then what point would there be to continue subscribing? They would see their steady revenue dry up quick. I know I would stop subbing and just buy the one offs as needed.

 

 

That being said? The sky is definately not falling. So far everything that has been talked about in the cartel store is cosmetic. And to be honest? Even if there are upgrades available stat wise from the store? yay! so long as they don't provide upgrades that are BETTER than what is available from normal game play through operations and warzones? More avenues to loot the better, and the more avenues to revenue for a game I want to see kept alive? also the better.

[Monoth]

 

Subbers shouldn't be given everything just because they pay 15$ a month. They should be given access to progression content. And yes I am a subber, and no I probably wont be dropping to f2p. I'll use my cartel points on the items I want from the shop, and that is how it should be.

 

Why the F'in not?!?!?!! Were paying a fee for the ENTIRE game and ALL it's content, why should we have to pay for any item be it a fluff / cosmetic item?!? Most people find cosmetic items important and should be part of the game for paying subscribers...

 

Your just a lemming that does what he's told by the greedy Gaming Companies, they have you brainwashed into thinking you should pay extras for things that were once part of the game.... Fluff items / Cosmetics were part of the subscription, what do you think all that social gear is?!?! or the companion appearance mods you can get in game.... Now there going to charge extra for these types of items and your OK with this?

 

All I can think of is the old saying "A fool and his money is soon parted"

Edited August 6, 2012 by Monoth