Is EA counting on people like this?

[ThomastheHut]

I have paid for lifetime subs in a couple of other games for genres I know and would enjoy. As a 'founder' or 'vip' in these other games I only pay for 'new content' as might be released on a store shelf. No monthly bills or hassles, and I get treated like I'm paying monthly anyway. I would have bought a lifetime sub for this game had it been offered.

 

Short of WoW, which I have never been interested in (loved the strategy games it spawned from though ) I know that all MMO's trail off and meet an end sooner or later. Lifetime subs, for the games I play, have paid for themselves within 18 months. Those games are now far beyond the 'break-even' point and I don't have to think about it at all. There are 'cash stores' for these games now to buy perks and such, but nothing sold is required to play given my vip status.

 

Had I missed out on the lifetime sub option in these games - I too would pay once to get the content and then not have to worry about subs again.

 

Fire and forget.

 

Edit:

Sooner or later, given longevity of the game, there will ALWAYS come a point where your one-time payment is less than what you might be continuously shelling out over time for a subscription. I mean, isn't that obvious?

Edited August 5, 2012 by ThomastheHut

[Shaya]

Tell him this: If its free how come your spending money on it? You said it was free right?

[Fornix]

Please keep this on topic. This isn't about what the cash shop is going to have or about one time purchases or not. This is about if EA is counting on dummies like my friend who will glady pay up to 200 dollars in a cash shop or more JUST because they don't want to pay a sub fee of 15 dollars a month.

 

It's a feeling of ownership rather than simply renting something. I'm not sure how EA/BioWare will handle things down the line, but whereas players purchasing content from the item mall may buy their way into things attached to their account forever. We may be on the crappy end 5 years down the line.

 

Just imagine the following scenario:

 

Player A purchases content patches for 30 bucks a piece. Every 6 weeks one is released. He ends up paying 240 bucks a year on them. After 2 years, the number of patches reduces till one every 3 months, paying 120 a year. And after 5 years, content patches drop to twice a year, 60 bucks a month. Playing 5 years, that person will have spent 780 bucks. And can keep on playing the upcoming 2 years as content patches dwindle even further for practically free.

 

Player B subscribes, pays 15 bucks a month. 180 bucks every year. Is on the lucky end of the deal in the first 2 years, but from year 3 and on the luck starts running out and actually ends up paying more. Doesn't matter much for the first year, after all he saved 120 bucks in those two years. So till the end of year 4 both players have paid roughly the same amount. After that though, the subber is on the losing end.

 

What happens for the subber? Does the subber retain ownership of all content released during the period they subscribed? Do they lose access to that content once they unsubscribe?

 

For example in LOTRO, if you unsub from the VIP status, you lose a lot of content access. Whereas if you purchased it, you retain access to it.

 

The thing is, we do not know what the future plans are for TOR. However, subscribers may end up being the ones paying the lot in the end if content delivery diminishes.

[Nightspirit]

People are easily fooled when you tell them what they want to hear.

[xippo]

Worse than that!?

 

HOW?! I can't even...

 

Yes, because not only will they do that, they will plaster all over gen chat that they did and they saved money in the process. Then there are the just plain ignorant people that will come to a game when it's free and load the chat with innumerable amounts of inane things, insulting people left and right, and not caring because if they get banned they will just make another account. In my other games I had to turn everything but guild chat and accept invites from friends only off to retain any sense of sanity.

[xippo]

I would have to say you would unlock ops for a month via cartel otherwise you could just unlock everything once via cartel and then never have subs.

 

It really depends, in DDO you could buy the quest pack which if it had a raid included the raid at a fairly hefty price or you could buy a temporary pass which usually lasted 90 minutes at a much reduced rate.

[Crash-X]

Wow. This is a conversation that just happened.

 

I said, "So..say there were 2 content updates that were 10 bucks each. You would pay that already. Then add on top of allll those other things you like to get, skins, pets, mounts, fluff for your character, probably a lot of other stuff because it's a Star Wars game to. So knowing you, you would buy those things. Now...that would probably be more than 40 dollars already if not MORE and you will keep paying that. Now, you said you like to get these things for your character more often and are an altaholic in mmos, you will have to pay to open more character slots. That's probably now more than 50 dollars with tax, maybe more. But if you paid 15 dollars a month you would have access to that ALL without paying anything in the cash shop for it. Don't you see the difference there? 60 plus dollars vs. 15 dollars for unlimited access?" He said, "but it's free....and there is no sub fee..."

 

I just...don't know what to say to him anymore. I gave him every scenario I could possibly come up with.

 

What if those things he buys are the only things he buy for a 5-6 month period? Then he actually just saved money...

 

But your friend sounds like a whale.

 

Thing is if you don't buy stuff like mad you're likely to save more money just paying for things relevant to what you want to do.

[terencechan]

Yes, because not only will they do that, they will plaster all over gen chat that they did and they saved money in the process. Then there are the just plain ignorant people that will come to a game when it's free and load the chat with innumerable amounts of inane things, insulting people left and right, and not caring because if they get banned they will just make another account. In my other games I had to turn everything but guild chat and accept invites from friends only off to retain any sense of sanity.

 

Welcome to the Internet bro

[wcnighthawk]

Please keep this on topic. This isn't about what the cash shop is going to have or about one time purchases or not. This is about if EA is counting on dummies like my friend who will glady pay up to 200 dollars in a cash shop or more JUST because they don't want to pay a sub fee of 15 dollars a month.

 

That's just not your friend. That's every idiot that supports F2P because they think it will save them money. They're too stupid to realize they are going to be nickeled and dimed to death.

 

Reminds me of a co-worker. I told her if she bought an HDMI cable, she could hook her laptop to her television and could watch movies/tv episodes from there. I told her if she went to Blockbuster (yea, I know right?) she could get a 6' cord for like 12 bucks. That's a hell of a lot cheaper than say Wal-Mart or Best Buy. She informs me that she can't afford a 12 dollar cord (ok, no big deal, right?) Two hours later, as she is leaving her shift, I see her pick out 2 DVD's from the 10 dollar discount bin and buy them. I mean, what do you do with people like that?

[ZudetGambeous]

well if they model this anything like LOTRO or DDO it is actually probably better to buy the content if you plan on playing for more than a year or so.

 

In those games you can buy zones to quest in and once you buy them they are forever unlocked on your account. Heck, by grinding through a couple of characters I was able to earn almost all the zones in LOTRO for free and I get access to all the stuff the sub people do but for free.

 

10 zones at $5 each is $50 to unlock all the zones, which is more than 3 months sub, but if you are leveling multiple characters or level very slowly, by the 4th month it would have been better to buy the content rather than the sub.

 

Of course if you are an average player who only plays a game for 3 months or so then it is almost always better to sub. It also highly depends on what the cash shop offers.

[Crash-X]

That's just not your friend. That's every idiot that supports F2P because they think it will save them money. They're too stupid to realize they are going to be nickeled and dimed to death.

 

If you allow yourself to be then sure.

 

Some of us have played F2P games like DCUO and I haven't spent $10 on that game since it went F2P, tell me I didn't save money.

[terencechan]

That's just not your friend. That's every idiot that supports F2P because they think it will save them money. They're too stupid to realize they are going to be nickeled and dimed to death.

 

Just like BW was too stupid to think that their "subs" will make them money? "Subs" (over 1 million) just spat on the game, qq'd like BW owed them a living for that lousy 15 bucks a month, and could create things every day like the whole of China was working for them. With "friends" like these, who needs enemies?

[wcnighthawk]

If you allow yourself to be then sure.

 

Some of us have played F2P games like DCUO and I haven't spent $10 on that game since it went F2P, tell me I didn't save money.

 

Tell me how much of the game you get to experience too. Do you get to do everything. And I mean everything, and get the same benefits as people that sub to that game or not? Because I garuantee that's not the case.

 

For every LOTRO and DDO (still failures in my eyes) I can throw you a Age of Conan, Rift, and raise you a Star Trek Online.

[waterboytkd]

Please keep this on topic. This isn't about what the cash shop is going to have or about one time purchases or not. This is about if EA is counting on dummies like my friend who will glady pay up to 200 dollars in a cash shop or more JUST because they don't want to pay a sub fee of 15 dollars a month.

 

In all fairness to your friend, $200 is cheaper than $15 a month after 13 months (the 14th month, the subber has paid more). So, really, the functionality of the store (are purchases permanent unlocks to your account, or expiring unlocks) makes a lot of difference whether your friend is even a dummy or not.

 

In end, I don't think Bioware is banking on people spending retarded amounts of money in the cash shop regularly (at one point you mentioned your friend spending $200 a month*). I think they're banking on people spending an amount in the cash shop equivalent to a subscription over a long period of time (a year or two), with maybe a bit more tacked on with both sub and F2P players, because they'll spend extra money on frivolities (vanity items, utility items, etc).

 

*In regards to your friend, your scenarios are a bit disingenuous. If he's spending $200 a month in the cash shop, than a sub would NOT be giving him all the same stuff. He'd be spending that much a month, sub or no. Similarly, you mention $60 vs $15/month. At the 4th month, the two costs are the same ($60). After that, the sub is more expensive. If you're arguing your friend is spending $60 a month, then the above applies again: he would be spending that in the cash shop on frivolities, so would be spending that money, sub or no. To that end, I DO think EA/Bioware is expecting people to spend a bit of extra money on the cash shop, sub or no. That's what the shop is there to do--tempt us into spending our money on stuff we want, but don't need, which is fine. It's just like every other entertainment industry out there (and, truthfully, it'll still be cheaper than all the others, too--video games are actually a VERY cheap hobby).

[xippo]

Welcome to the Internet bro

 

Hey this isn't my first rodeo with the F2P. Unfortunately it finally got to be to much and I had to quit the last game to retain my sanity. Well what was left of it anyways.

[LaVolpex]

perfect example of simply how idiotic and stupid this current generation has gotten...

 

cant even do simple friggin math, and these are the kinds of gamers companies are catering to, because after all, as you so eloquently showed us, its not hard to take advantage of their stupidity and get more $$$

 

i blame the call of duty generation, i trully have not seen so many dumb people together in my life...

 

sorry op, but your friend is living in lalaland

[terencechan]

Some of us have played F2P games like DCUO and I haven't spent $10 on that game since it went F2P, tell me I didn't save money.

 

It's the gamers whose whole sense of self worth is depending on ensuring that their pixels in SWTOR remain godlike and unsummountable that is generating all this senseless and time wasting qq. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a game, and maybe contribute a bit to the kitty to help it along if you feel that game has deserved it.

[LaVolpex]

it's called a budget.. sometimes adults can budget a large purchase(like at tax return time) but cannot afford an extra commitment to their monthly expenditures.

 

im sorry but i doubt you live in the real world and pay real bills...

 

IF your economical situation is so hard that fifty cents a day makes or breaks you, you shouldnt be gaming , PERIOD.

you should be focused on getting job, getting a house, and stabilizing your economics...

 

but i have found that 95% of the people that say they cant "afford" a monthly sub are the kinds of people that spend about fifty bucks on fast foods a week...... i really dont thik the "price" is the issue here , so much as them being stupid and not knowing basic math much like the ops "friend"

[Gungan]

im sorry but i doubt you live in the real world and pay real bills...

 

IF your economical situation is so hard that fifty cents a day makes or breaks you, you shouldnt be gaming , PERIOD.

you should be focused on getting job, getting a house, and stabilizing your economics...

 

but i have found that 95% of the people that say they cant "afford" a monthly sub are the kinds of people that spend about fifty bucks on fast foods a week...... i really dont thik the "price" is the issue here , so much as them being stupid and not knowing basic math much like the ops "friend"

 

They must be the same people buying coffee at Starbucks every morning.

[Kaisernick]

my friend really said something that made me think differently about free to play.

 

he origionally played it at launch but stopped cause he couldnt afford it.

 

now he says he might come back i said yes but you get a limit on the number of character slots but u may be able to buy aditional ones.

 

he said id do that you see when i payed the sub i felt like i had to play it cause if i didnt id be wasteing my money where as if i only buy aditional things that are extra i can make a one off payment and still play when i wish.

 

i didnt get it.

 

then he said how many games have you baught since december?

 

i said 4

 

he said have you finished any of them?

 

No

 

then he said when do you play them?

 

I said not much.

 

exactally u have paid for them now u can take as long as you wish its costing you nothing having them sit there, where as you play TOR all the time cause its costing you.

 

in this day of ressestion and money being tight i get now why its a more desriable option, as long as you dont have to pay to win these things can work for people who just simply dont have the cash to waste every mounth.

[Stoicraven]

there are actually many ppl like this. THey simply don't get it really. While they'll continually being paying for things through the cash shop which over time will cost more then the sub feature they will keep doing it, because in the end what it comes down to, one time is better then all the time.

[Arkerus]

A guy I know wants to play SWTOR now that it is going to have a free to play option. He DREAMED of being a bounty hunter but can't "afford" the game. I told him you can sub OR play free. He's hopping on right away. But here's the weird part.

 

We were talking about the game and it got into the what if category stuff. He said, "I can't wait to play this game! I have been waiting so long! I hope they have a cash shop to!!!!" I said, "ok...I'm going to ask something here. What if there were "packages" that you could select from. Like package 1 being, a new planet, a new class, a new race all with bonus items in it. Package 2 being 2 new races to choose from, 2 new classes and bonus items and so on. Keep in mind this was just what if questioning.

 

He then went, dude...I would totally pay for all of them right there! I said, "what if they costed 10 dollars a piece?" he said, "i don't care, for that amount of content and I get to play for free?! are you kidding me? that is amazing!" so I proceeded to tell him that there is a sub option still that is only 15 dollars a month and you get it ALL. All content, everything that comes in. Probably some cool titles to and don't have to pay for anything except the sub fee. He said, "why would you do that? that's dumb....why wouldn't you play for free and pay for what you are doing?" I thought to myself...did he really just say that? because that's EXACTLY what he will be doing...

 

So I told him.

 

"Listen...say there were i dont know...5 packages like that in the store that were all 10 dollars each and in order for you to want to play those thing you had to dish out 10 dollars for each of them would you really do that?" he said "dude...in order to play this game for free!? DEFINITELY. That is like...an amazing price for all that content." I then thought to myself "Is there something he's not getting here?" So then I told him, "look....you would be getting ALL that content for NO money if you just subbed to the game and paid 15 dollars a month." He said "but I would be paying 15 dollars a month. I don't want to do that crap. I want to play my mmos for free." I said "Ok, here is what I'm trying to tell you. You told me you would buy every one of the "packages" for 10 dollars no matter how many there were." he said, "right" I go...."that adds to 50 dollars if there were 5 and with you you said you couldn't just pick one, it would be all of them." he said, "right..." I said, "how can you not be getting something like this? 15 dollars a month for access to everything is MUCH cheaper than paying 50 dollars for new content and paying for pvp access and even MORE content packages that come out. Keep in mind you also have restrictions on the account, don't you see that?" him - "i don't care how much I spend...I just want to play for free!"

 

Wow...seriously? Did he just really say that?! "I don't care how much I SPEND, I just want to play for FREE"

 

Basically his conclusion was that no matter how much he had to pay in the cash shop whether it be 10 or 100 dollars, he would keep playing the game because it didn't require a sub fee and therefore it's "free". End of conversation. That's how he views it

 

Is EA betting on people just like that for their cash shop to work? Are people really that easily fooled? Something they don't get? I am...having second thoughts about the frienship lol. If he doesn't get that. I thought he was smart guys lol. I guess not... hehehe

 

Keep in mind this was completely a what if scenario I came up with for him to try and see what his thoughts on the matter. Nothing in here is true about packages or anything like that nor do I think they will do that. It was just a scenario I played out for him. *actually laughing out loud*

 

You answered your own question. They are trying to open the game up to ANYONE who wants to see what its like. Whether it be your friend or another friend with a totally different attitude. There are thousands of people out there who simply don't want to play monthly. I know many of them. They whole reason they don't play TOR is because they refuse to pay a monthly fee.

[Crash-X]

Tell me how much of the game you get to experience too. Do you get to do everything. And I mean everything, and get the same benefits as people that sub to that game or not? Because I garuantee that's not the case.

 

For every LOTRO and DDO (still failures in my eyes) I can throw you a Age of Conan, Rift, and raise you a Star Trek Online.

 

I think there are 4 EPs for DCUO.

 

$10 each.

 

$40 for those EPs and I would be able to experience the entire game. Vs the $100+ a year someone spends on sub fees.

 

I haven't because I stopped playing DCUO but say they release another EP before the year is over $50. Compared to $180 you'd pay a year for a sub fee.

 

Luckily Whales keep games running though. People who are buying cosmetic stuff in the store and any thing and everything. Meanwhile the smarter gamer can usually save if they just buy content stuff....unless EA plans to charge for every single thing...which they might.

[LaVolpex]

You answered your own question. They are trying to open the game up to ANYONE who wants to see what its like. Whether it be your friend or another friend with a totally different attitude. There are thousands of people out there who simply don't want to play monthly. I know many of them. They whole reason they don't play TOR is because they refuse to pay a monthly fee.

 

 

/facepalm

 

woooooooooooossshhhhhhhhh

 

^the sound of the point going over your head..

 

 

these "ppeople" that dont want to "pay a monthly fee" WILL end up paying a monthly fee if they spend even 10 dollars a month of the cash shop, turns out they only saved 5 cents a day for a half assed experience, the "we dont wanna pay a monthly sub, but pay for individual content cuz its "Cheaper" argument is monumentally wrong and also monumentally stupid

[Crash-X]

/facepalm

 

woooooooooooossshhhhhhhhh

 

^the sound of the point going over your head..

 

 

these "ppeople" that dont want to "pay a monthly fee" WILL end up paying a monthly fee if they spend even 10 dollars a month of the cash shop, turns out they only saved 5 cents a day for a half assed experience, the "we dont wanna pay a monthly sub, but pay for individual content cuz its "Cheaper" argument is monumentally wrong and also monumentally stupid

 

I just proved it isn't.

 

DCUO you can pay $40 for all the content right now. All the content they released this year...compared to $180 you'd pay on a sub fee.

 

How is paying for the sub fee cheaper then?

 

Not all F2P games are priced the same. If the company does it right then players can actually save money. The idea is to get more people PLAYING and PAYING.

$5 from millions of players per month is better than $15 from 300k players per month.