Interesting interview with Peter Moore

[pocketthesaurus]

None of mine did. What's your point?

The fact is that you cannot prove that it is embellished BS, as you claimed.

 

I already know several people who can't wait to buy the game. They can't put up with a subscription of $15 a month because they never know how much time they'll have to play. A lot of people with families find themselves in that situation. Point is, 40% of people probably did say that, and you have nothing to prove it's embellished... You took a swipe without any proof because you're too busy trying to build the hate and keep the momentum of "EA LIES TO USSSS DERP DERP" up. Get over it.

[Skirata_Kal]

The fact is that you cannot prove that it is embellished BS, as you claimed.

 

I already know several people who can't wait to buy the game. They can't put up with a subscription of $15 a month because they never know how much time they'll have to play. A lot of people with families find themselves in that situation. Point is, 40% of people probably did say that, and you have nothing to prove it's embellished... You took a swipe without any proof because you're too busy trying to build the hate and keep the momentum of "EA LIES TO USSSS DERP DERP" up. Get over it.

 

Sorry, when they start changing their story, they become fair game. Btw, I'm not a hater. I like the game, am not, at present unsubbing, but I still call B.S. on some of what the fanbois keep throwing out. There's plenty of things to look at that makes a reasonable person have a hard time being optimistic about the future of this game. With that said, I really do hope things get turned around.

[Druc]

Its very very foolish to think that 40% of people that couldn't be bothered to pay 15 bucks would pay to buy fluff, it will just change the reason that people aren't playing from costs too much to nothing to do. There sure isn't anything new for all those 40% of people who would play play every day if it was free.

 

40% didn't say they would buy stuff. 40% that quit said they would play again if it was FTP. They never said they would pay more money.

 

Bottom Line - it doesn't matter. F2P + subscription is here. Not for just this game but for all. Give WoW 6 months and it will have the same thing. It won't bring a ton of people back, but it will bring in a ton of new people and the company will make more money. If you don't like capitalism, that's fine, but the CEO has one job and that is it increase the returns to investors and not make a minority of FTP haters happy.

[Skoobie]

$500 million share buyback...is that we he just said?

 

Sounds like some investors want out, too.

[Druc]

EA.

 

Where charades are the most common form of answering real problems.

 

It's very clear from this video that Microtransactions WILL be coming to SWTOR.

 

That's not news. The entire legacy system was a beta for MTs. MTs have been in the works since before launch. The original FAQ stated the billing model would be subscription + some other methods. People refuse to see what is in front of them. None this should be a shock to anyone.

[Skoobie]

That's not news. The entire legacy system was a beta for MTs. MTs have been in the works since before launch. The original FAQ stated the billing model would be subscription + some other methods. People refuse to see what is in front of them. None this should be a shock to anyone.

 

Yet when asked about it multiple times in per-release interviews, Bioware just laughed off the idea.

 

It takes time to convert a game, and if they can really do it by November, then they have been already working on it for a while, absolutely.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Skoobie

[Skirata_Kal]

40% didn't say they would buy stuff. 40% that quit said they would play again if it was FTP. They never said they would pay more money.

 

Bottom Line - it doesn't matter. F2P + subscription is here. Not for just this game but for all. Give WoW 6 months and it will have the same thing. It won't bring a ton of people back, but it will bring in a ton of new people and the company will make more money. If you don't like capitalism, that's fine, but the CEO has one job and that is it increase the returns to investors and not make a minority of FTP haters happy.

 

Actually, the original quote was that 40% said the subscription was their reason for quitting and that "MANY" of them said they'd still be playing if it were free. Now they seem to be saying that all 40% would come back if it's f2p. That's where the skepticism is coming from. Add to that the fact that many of us know far more of the '60%' who simply decided the game wasn't for them and it's hard for some to trust the word of EA over their own anecdotal experience.

 

You are right that F2P + sub is coming and nothing is going to stop it. And yes, WoW will get there eventually too. With that said, optimism isn't exactly contagious here. But noone will be happier than I if I'm wrong, because I do like the game.

[Druc]

But noone will be happier than I if I'm wrong, because I do like the game.

 

Then be happy because the only way to get new people is F2P. F2P saved DDO and LotRO. Both would be shut down if it wasn't for the F2P option. And BTW, LotRO still releases significant updates and xpacs as well.

[Skirata_Kal]

Then be happy because the only way to get new people is F2P. F2P saved DDO and LotRO. Both would be shut down if it wasn't for the F2P option. And BTW, LotRO still releases significant updates and xpacs as well.

 

Not encouraging, actually. I hate DDO and LOTRO so nothing can save them Actually LOTRO was ok for a weekend, just felt like WoW lite to me. I know what you meant though. Deep down, I don't see it happening, but we shall see.

[Skoobie]

Then be happy because the only way to get new people is F2P. F2P saved DDO and LotRO. Both would be shut down if it wasn't for the F2P option. And BTW, LotRO still releases significant updates and xpacs as well.

 

There is absolutely no indication that LOTRO would have shut down without going F2P.

 

DDO would have, tho.

[Druc]

Not encouraging, actually. I hate DDO and LOTRO so nothing can save them Actually LOTRO was ok for a weekend, just felt like WoW lite to me. I know what you meant though. Deep down, I don't see it happening, but we shall see.

 

Then FTP is not worth it to you to play those games, but it is for many others.

 

Bottom-line: If you like SWTOR and feel it is worth $15/mo then nothing changes for you because you get what you have now.

[Skirata_Kal]

There is absolutely no indication that LOTRO would have shut down without going F2P.

 

DDO would have, tho.

 

DDO lost me with Eberron, they couldn't pay me to play in that...well...maybe if it was alot lol. I've seen alot of debate on the F2P effects on LOTRO which is where some of my concerns come from.

[Druc]

There is absolutely no indication that LOTRO would have shut down without going F2P.

 

DDO would have, tho.

 

Except they all but said they couldn't continue supporting the game if they didn't add the FTP option. It might still be around, but it would be in maintencance mode. They had huge drops in subs just like SWTOR did.

[Skirata_Kal]

Then FTP is not worth it to you to play those games, but it is for many others.

 

Bottom-line: If you like SWTOR and feel it is worth $15/mo then nothing changes for you because you get what you have now.

 

I feel it's worth $15/mo for now...again, we shall see. If all my friends and my current guild quits though, then that could change. I'm not rebuilding for a 4th time.

[Skoobie]

Except they all but said they couldn't continue supporting the game if they didn't add the FTP option. It might still be around, but it would be in maintencance mode. They had huge drops in subs just like SWTOR did.

 

No, they didn't.

 

The game had a stable amount of subscribers when the game went F2P. By all guesstimates it was around 300K. There wasn't mass layoffs going on and the players were relatively happy at the time.

 

DDO went F2P, and they (including Warner Brothers, who bought them not long after) saw how much more $$ they could make. So they decided ( and I wouldn't doubt it was part of the agreement of WB buying them) to convert LOTRO too.

 

You are right, every other game that made the conversion did so due to sub/income loss. LOTRO is the exception.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Skoobie

[ZORG]

Quote: Originally Posted by Druc

 

That's not news. The entire legacy system was a beta for MTs. MTs have been in the works since before launch. The original FAQ stated the billing model would be subscription + some other methods. People refuse to see what is in front of them. None this should be a shock to anyone.

 

 

 

Yet when asked about it multiple times in per-release interviews, Bioware just laughed off the idea.

 

It takes time to convert a game, and if they can really do it by November, then they have been already working on it for a while, absolutely.

 

And thats why the content has been so slow to release.

[Skoobie]

And thats why the content has been so slow to release.

 

Yea man.

 

The entire focus of Bioware has shifted. They are no longer concerned about getting content out to us as soon as possible, it is now switch this game over to F2P asap! Got's to get those $$ rolling in! Anything that comes out between now and then, is probably already finished.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Skoobie

[Nagadeath]

Yea man.

 

The entire focus of Bioware has shifted. They are no longer concerned about getting content out to us as soon as possible, it is now switch this game over to F2P asap! Got's to get those $$ rolling in!

 

funny part is if they had spent the time working on content and bug fixes instead of setting the cash shop and F2P up they probably wouldn't have had to go F2P in the first place.

[Skoobie]

funny part is if they had spent the time working on content and bug fixes instead of setting the cash shop and F2P up they probably wouldn't have had to go F2P in the first place.

 

Honestly, I think they were planning on bringing in a cash shop, anyways. Even if this game stayed sub based.

[SirRobin]

Yea man.

 

The entire focus of Bioware has shifted. They are no longer concerned about getting content out to us as soon as possible, it is now switch this game over to F2P asap! Got's to get those $$ rolling in!

 

Well its not like EA has a whole lot of choice at this point. Depending on where in that "range" the real number lies, TOR may have lost half or more of the subscribers they had left, in just the last quarter. That is a huge drop in revenue. Even after slashing staff in Austin, they desperately need to start increasing revenue or at least stop the bleeding.

 

Over the last six months TOR has gone from 1.7 million to 1.3 million and is now somewhere between 1 and .5 million. See the slide? It went from the initial two million sales to drop three hundred grand to 1.7 million. Then from 1.7 to 1.3 million. A four hundred thousand drop. Now unless TOR has at least .9 million left, TOR's slope isn't getting shallower. Its getting steeper.

 

If you count the four hundred thousand sales after the initial two million, plus how many units have moved since, the plunge may be a whole hell of a lot steeper. Don't forget all the trials, free weekends, and now free-to-fifteen, that they've offered. For a game that's only been on the shelves for six months? I actually feel sorry for the accountants who have access to the real numbers.

 

Its probably giving them nightmares. Of course the numbers would stabilize somewhere. They have too. There are quite a few folks who do like this game enough to pay to play. There just seems to be no where near enough of them. Even if the rate of loss doesn't get any worse. TOR could drop beneath EA's own previously declared "break even" point less than three months from now.

 

Talk about your words coming back to haunt you. I doubt they ever imagined that TOR would drop beneath their own claimed "bottom line" less than a year after launch. Again, EA may still be clueless when it comes to making a great MMORPG, but they certainly know the numbers game. So, they've got three months before TOR will be a failure by their own declared parameters.

 

Do you see it yet? Six years, eight hundred people, almost two hundred million dollars, and according to their own words... TOR will be a failure. How many times did they reference TOR's costs in earnings calls over the last few years? Not sure if John could survive it. So something has to be done and its probably been in the works since at least the last earnings call.

 

EA's honchos have to do something drastic not just to save TOR, but quite possibly their own jobs as well.

Edited August 4, 2012 by SirRobin

[Skoobie]

I agree with you, brave SirRobin.

 

In fact, yesterday we were discussing why they announced this still with approx 750,000 subs, and my feelings are they saw the slide and thought they would be under that 500K mark by November.

 

I'm not very good at math...at all. But what's the rate they are losing subs? Isn't it close to 100K per month? That's insane.

 

SWTOR has lost more players then many other MMO's have had at their peak.

[Goretzu]

Maybe 40% said something like that. I just hope that they have considered that:

- Some people selected whatever because when quitting they didnt care.

- Some people lied, for fun or whatever

- Some people meant that if everything is free, they might be interested, not the same f2p they are going to offer

- and so on...

 

 

Yeah.

 

Even if 40% of people who quit, quit ONLY because they didn't want to pay a subscription fee (which is highly unlikely)....... it still doesn't follow that 100% of those 40% that quit would therefore play a cashshop model MMORPG (because "F2P" isn't "free" it is Cashshop/Microstransaction).

[Skoobie]

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh whenever I see that 40% stuff.

 

I mean, in the history of gaming, has there EVER been a game that changed their whole model and claim they are doing it for a minority of ex-players??

 

Freaking hysterical.

[Goretzu]

I agree with you, brave SirRobin.

 

In fact, yesterday we were discussing why they announced this still with approx 750,000 subs, and my feelings are they saw the slide and thought they would be under that 500K mark by November.

 

I'm not very good at math...at all. But what's the rate they are losing subs? Isn't it close to 100K per month? That's insane.

 

SWTOR has lost more players then many other MMO's have had at their peak.

 

 

Well look at the numbers that were announced, and the language used, must have between 600,000 and 700,000 "active accounts" (I don't think they have over 750,000 because they'd have likely said "between 1m and 3/4m accounts" if they had).

 

So from 600,000-700,000 "active accounts" you have to take into account all the trial account counted in that number, and then all the accounts that still have time on them but are no longer being player (in some cases like intially 6 month subs, perhaps not played for 6+ months now, but still counting).

 

If you factor both those things into the above numbers, then the number of paying and playing account is very likely to be UNDER the magic 500,000 number.

 

Meaning that EA know that SWTOR is already effectively under the 500,000 limit, even if their "active account" count is still technically a bit higher.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Goretzu

[SirRobin]

Well look at the numbers that were announced, and the language used, must have between 600,000 and 700,000 "active accounts" (I don't think they have over 750,000 because they'd have likely said "between 1m and 3/4m accounts" if they had).

 

So from 600,000-700,000 "active accounts" you have to take into account all the trial account counted in that number, and then all the accounts that still have time on them but are no longer being player (in some cases like intially 6 month subs, perhaps not played for 6+ months now, but still counting).

 

If you factor both those things into the above numbers, then the number of paying and playing account is very likely to be UNDER the magic 500,000 number.

 

Meaning that EA know that SWTOR is already effectively under the 500,000 limit, even if their "active account" count is still technically a bit higher.

 

Well they did actually use the word "subscribers" when giving us the "range" so it is possible that it is at least not counting the "free-to-fifteens." Of course not referencing them might be a very bad thing since if the free-to-fifteens are a negligible percentage of the total, it doesn't bode well for expanding F2P access.

 

Then again, does anyone really think that this switch is all or even mostly about bringing in new blood? They've done the friend trials, free weekends, and are now even doing a free-to-fifteen and it certainly doesn't seem to be helping. They've already got an apparently loyal fan base. Its just relatively small.

 

They are still here, and still paying, so why not give them more ways to pay? EA's best bet is to find more things for them to spend money on. I strongly suspect that after November, even with the $15 a month option, there will be plenty in the cash shop that we'll need to spend a little extra to get.

 

Its more about getting as much money as possible out of their core audience than attracting a new one.

Edited August 4, 2012 by SirRobin