What F2P Really does to a game..!!

[Bulwyf]

It's (apparently) debatable whether Smaug was the last. I'm pretty sure there are passages in "The Hobbit" that strongly indicate, if not outright state that he was the last dragon.

 

From what I recall Turbine latched onto the description of Smaug as the last of the great dragons to justify the Draigoch raid, saying that Draigoch is some putsy lesser dragon, but I always felt like Tolkien used great as kind of an honorific applied to all dragons. Like calling a particular T-Rex the last of the mighty dinosaurs or something.

 

I've also always felt that if Draigoch is just a lesser dragon, then hunters should be able to one-shot him with Bard's Arrow.

 

Actually it is not debatable. Tolkien himself said Smaug was not the last great dragon. He was one of the last great dragons. There is a rather distinct difference between "the last" and "one of the last".

[leathfuil]

Actually it is not debatable. Tolkien himself said Smaug was not the last great dragon. He was one of the last great dragons. There is a rather distinct difference between "the last" and "one of the last".

 

I don't care what Tolkien said. I care what he put in the books.

[Daeada]

The analogy of the frog in hot water sums up pretty well what happens to F2P stores imo.

 

Except that analogy is a terrible one. What most people don't know about the experiment that coined the analogy is that the frogs that didn't jump out of the water were lobotomized. Frogs with their brains intact and fully functioning jumped out of the water.

[Bulwyf]

I don't care what Tolkien said. I care what he put in the books.

 

He said Smaug was one of the last, not the last. I don't know how much plainer someone could be. Go google Smaug and see the descriptions of him. Almost every single one says "one of the last great dragons". The sources they use? The books and letters from Tolkien himself.

[AidenCast]

500 TP is about $5. So they went from charging you $15 a month at most to $10 at most if you count the points yet people still complain. Its why people call this the entitlement generation. Everyone wants something for nothing. Never happy with what they have but always envious of others.

 

No I wanted what Turbine said when they launched F2P that subscribers/lifetimers would get the same standard of game without having to use the store (i.e being able to earn all items bar fluff in the store at a reasonable drop rate in game). It also said that only convenience and not advantage would be sold in the store. These statements have since been removed from all Turbine literature and forums (although peeps over at http://lotrocommunity.com/ have still got screen shots of them). So no I don't want everything I just want what they said we would get from F2P, dress it up anyway you want Turbine lied and the store has become a completely different beast to the one they originally sold the player base on. You may be perfectly happy with that but I and by the looks of it quite a few other posters in this thread are not.

[AidenCast]

Except that analogy is a terrible one. What most people don't know about the experiment that coined the analogy is that the frogs that didn't jump out of the water were lobotomized. Frogs with their brains intact and fully functioning jumped out of the water.

 

Doesn't say much for the people who still think Lotro store is the best thing since sliced bread then does it.

(Yes I know I've already cancelled my sub I may as well go for the double now and go for aq forum ban)

Edited August 1, 2012 by AidenCast

[Leggomy]

No I wanted what Turbine said when they launched F2P that subscribers/lifetimers would get the same standard of game without having to use the store (i.e being able to earn all items bar fluff in the store at a reasonable drop rate in game). It also said that only convenience and not advantage would be sold in the store. These statements have since been removed from all Turbine literature and forums (although peeps over at http://lotrocommunity.com/ have still got screen shots of them). So no I don't want everything I just want what they said we would get from F2P, dress it up anyway you want Turbine lied and the store has become a completely different beast to the one they originally sold the player base on. You may be perfectly happy with that but I and by the looks of it quite a few other posters in this thread are not.

 

You can continue just like you were. There is no need to buy the stuff off the store. Fluff doesnt give an advantage and you get 500 to spend each month. You had no barter wallet before so it is the same as when f2p launched. If you want the wallet spend 2 months of points they give you free or (gasp) play the game and earn free points. Seeing as lotro is as popular as it ever has been I would say most people disagree with your view.

[Daeada]

Doesn't say much for the people who still think Lotro store is the best thing since sliced bread then does it.

(Yes I know I've already cancelled my sub I may as well go for the double now and go for aq forum ban)

 

What is too hot for one person may not be too hot for another. Personally I am fine with what Turbine has in their store, as most things that actually have an impact on gameplay are earnable within the game. Yes, they may have lousy drop rates, but if you want to play for free, that's fine. The store offers convenient ways to achieve power, not the power itself.

[AidenCast]

Seeing as lotro is as popular as it ever has been I would say most people disagree with your view.

 

Based on what Turbine say, there are no hard facts to back that up apart from anecdotal evidence and hyperbole from their PR department.

[AidenCast]

What is too hot for one person may not be too hot for another.

 

I was actually referring to the lobotomy part of it.

[AidenCast]

You can continue just like you were. There is no need to buy the stuff off the store. Fluff doesnt give an advantage and you get 500 to spend each month.

 

I wasn't referring to buying fluff I was referring to the fact that I now have to repeat the relic grind everytime I scrap a LI unless I buy a removal scroll from the store, when previously they were returned automatically when you broke it down. For a Cappie, Minnie, RK or LM (many of whom have two to four different LI's for different builds/situations) this is a monumental pain especially if like me at one time I raided with all 4. Yeah, yeah I know I get 500 TP a month ......

Edited August 1, 2012 by AidenCast

[Vellem]

I wasn't referring to buying fluff I was referring to the fact that I now have to repeat the relic grind everytime I scrap a LI unless I buy a removal scroll from the store, when previously they were returned automatically when you broke it down. For a Cappie, Minnie, RK or LM (many of whom have two to four different LI's for different builds/situations) this is a monumental pain especially if like me at one time I raided with all 4. Yeah, yeah I know I get 500 TP a month ......

 

but but... you don't neeeeed it!

If you think it should be included with your subscription at no extra cost, then you must be a spoiled entitlement brat who wants everything for nothing.

 

[MasterKayote]

No I wanted what Turbine said when they launched F2P that subscribers/lifetimers would get the same standard of game without having to use the store (i.e being able to earn all items bar fluff in the store at a reasonable drop rate in game). It also said that only convenience and not advantage would be sold in the store. These statements have since been removed from all Turbine literature and forums (although peeps over at http://lotrocommunity.com/ have still got screen shots of them). So no I don't want everything I just want what they said we would get from F2P, dress it up anyway you want Turbine lied and the store has become a completely different beast to the one they originally sold the player base on. You may be perfectly happy with that but I and by the looks of it quite a few other posters in this thread are not.

 

Exactly. All these ignorant players claiming itll all stay the same for subs are just repeating the EA propaganda word for word like good little sheep letting the EA marketers do the thinking for them. If Turbine can go back on their word, you can bet your sweet momma EA is going to take advantage.

 

This is a big middle finger to all previous, current, and especially future customers.

[AidenCast]

but but... you don't neeeeed it!

If you think it should be included with your subscription at no extra cost, then you must be a spoiled entitlement brat who wants everything for nothing.

 

 

Ignore. I thought I was answering to someone else who was arguing that seriously my apolgies Vellum.

Edited August 1, 2012 by AidenCast

[paltrysum]

Its only a matter of time. EA does not care about your Lore, Wallet, Complaints. They want your money.

 

Well, it is a business after all. They created an MMO in a competitive market, licensing Star Wars (which can't be cheap, eh Lucasfilm?) to appeal to potential subscribers. You can't do things like this without money being the prime motivator. I'm sure you understand this. Your post was too good and too well thought out.

 

What I question is the feel of the game. To some extent MMO play is competition. Competing to get the best pve accomplishments and gear. Competing in pvp. But when the ability to "compete" depends on me forking over $25 for the ability to do something rather than spending the effort to accomplish that task, I don't think I want to be around.

[Intrepid]

Ignore. I thought I was answering to someone else who was arguing that seriously my apolgies Vellum.

 

I think that was sarcasm he was using lad...

[AidenCast]

I think that was sarcasm he was using lad...

 

I know I clocked it when I saw who wrote it, thats why I deleted it. In my defence quite a few on this thread have been arguing that point quite seriously. I'm tired, hard day at work and all that

Edited August 1, 2012 by AidenCast

[Leggomy]

I wasn't referring to buying fluff I was referring to the fact that I now have to repeat the relic grind everytime I scrap a LI unless I buy a removal scroll from the store, when previously they were returned automatically when you broke it down. For a Cappie, Minnie, RK or LM (many of whom have two to four different LI's for different builds/situations) this is a monumental pain especially if like me at one time I raided with all 4. Yeah, yeah I know I get 500 TP a month ......

 

This is why they give you the 500 TP a month tho. You keep glossing over that. Also you keep glossing over the fact you can earn more points in the game. Also thats one item out of tons on the store. They give you the money to buy it and yet you still complain even after getting it free. I dont know what they could possibly do to make you happy and still be able to keep the servers operational.

[AidenCast]

This is why they give you the 500 TP a month tho. You keep glossing over that. Also you keep glossing over the fact you can earn more points in the game. Also thats one item out of tons on the store. They give you the money to buy it and yet you still complain even after getting it free. I dont know what they could possibly do to make you happy and still be able to keep the servers operational.

 

Hi DarkCntry, how's it going? Seriously though, this argument is just going around in circles, I say that 500 TP even with the ones earnt in game buys you squat all of stuff you should get anyway as a subscriber or have the ability to earn in game without an insane grind/miniscule droprate, you say that 500 TP is an abundance of riches, enjoy your second rate MMO's. I can't be arsed arguing with you anymore, but on another note I'm selling some magic beans at a very good price if you are interested.

Edited August 1, 2012 by AidenCast

[Jeffor]

Up until when....Have you played it recently. ???

 

I left 2 years ago and the game was heading down the P2W road, Were you competing at Top end game, Dungeons and completing the Highest level content, Did you have maxed Legendary weapon Tiers. Did buy any of the +10 Stat boosts in store to a max of 50 (that was a nice little token consumer ), I don't think you were doing all this TBH, and if you were you have a lot of game time to earn in game tokens. This model is here to take your money. Do not think otherwise.

 

I've played LOTRO for over 5 years, I am a raider and PVMPer with many,many LIs and anything I ever need from the store is covered by my monthly stipend. People really like to exaggerate the whole F2P thing but all it really is is another subscription model. That's all and let's not be naive, all subscription models exist to make money.

[Leggomy]

Hi DarkCntry, how's it going? Seriously though, this argument is just going around in circles, I say that 500 TP even with the ones earnt in game buys you squat all of stuff you should get anyway as a subscriber or have the ability to earn in game without an insane grind/miniscule droprate, you say that 500 TP is an abundance of riches, enjoy your second rate MMO's. I can't be arsed arguing you anymore, but on another note I'm selling some magic beans at a very good price if you are interested.

 

You still have everything you had before. Your problem is you think you should get it all with the sub. Thats called entitlement. Saying to deserve more than you pay for because you pay. Makes no sense. Your sub gets you exactly what it got you before just now you think since they added a shop you should get all that also for free. Even when shown you can still get it all for free you scoff at it.

[CalonLan]

I'm surprised that none of the LotRO players have pointed out you can earn TP's in game by completing deeds.

 

F2P stores are like ATM charges, given a rational choice between paying to withdraw your money or withdrawing your money for free, you'd go with the free one every time. But if the ATM that is free is 20 miles away and the one that charges is 100 yards away then which would you choose? You pay for convenience/laziness.

 

I played LotRO from closed beta, have a lifetime sub, but chose to stop playing when they changed the primary stat on Captain to might. The game was grindy enough I didn't want to regrind the gear that took an age to acquire in the first place.

 

I'd imagine that the players that benefit most from F2P are either very casual, only ever play one character or don't raid.

In my experience F2P comes along with a degeneration in the quality of the game over time.

[kodrac]

No I dont think you need the store in LOTRO to level up, but if you started playing the game as F2P came into effect you absolutely needed the store to develop your legendary weapons at End Game, that the stat increases did make a difference at TOP End Game and that to obtain anything in game, was a rigorous mind numbing grind put in place to make you buy items from the store to ease that.

 

That any cool suggestions on the forums were instantly added to the store and not available in game, that every single tab on the UI had a link to the store and that if you wanted to remain in complete mediocrity, grinding endless deeds and skirmishes, then happy days.

 

I mean please do not tell me that the Legendary weapon changes that came with F2P were something you found easy as a normal player. I fully appreciate that SOME players had the time to grind 10 hours a day and get there tier upgrades via skirmishes. But ultimately, Everything about LOTRO was so that if you did not use the store it became repetitive, boring, rinse repeat content just to get a few levels on your Legendary tiers, stats, virtues and rep.

 

Quite honestly anyone playing LOTRO now for $15 a month, I take my hat off to them, because grinding Skirmishes and endless orcs is not my idea of fun, and exactly what EA has in store for us....

 

Mind the pun.

 

I have one last question for you. If LOTRO is so great, are you still playing it now ?? If not, why not.

 

Lack of content ??

To many Grinds ??

Boring End Game ??

 

Where do you think these came from ???

 

This is why I stopped playing LoTRO, well that and there were no lightsabers. Star Wars is my thing so I'll take a wait and see approach instead of rage quitting. The F2P format wasn't so bad or intrusive while playing LoTRO and the game itself was a nice game, but it has it's grinds that are a direct result of the F2P model. It's those grinds that made the game uninteresting after a while.

 

I started as a free player and then subscribed so I guess the model worked, but you get to certain parts near the end (at that time) where you had to grind weapon xp and you needed to have your (insert term I can't remember here) like valor at max rank to do any of the end game content, and that was a ridiculous grind. So even as a paying subscriber I still had to do the grinds. It was one thing for the f2p crowd to have to grind those things to get store points to buy more content, but for paying subscribers to have to do the same grinds as a gateway to end game competitiveness wasn't so good, or fun.

[LaVolpex]

Op what a brilliantly , and eloquently put post about the dark side of f2p

 

nothing more to add , and i agree 100% with the OP

 

QFT .

[Skiritai]

um, i still play/pay lotro. I enjoy my kin and the game is not as bad as you make it out to be. I would rather they try to save it than go the warhammer online route and die the slow and painful death.

 

I did not like f2p in lotro at first as a knee jerk reaction. Took a break, came back and just got on with enjoying the game. New content still arrives, I don't mind if its a little later.

 

Enjoy the game while it is around, nothing is forever.

 

I tried this game from the first moment, did not like it, recently came back and like it. so idk, people here seem to spend too much time enjoying the doomsaying, just an outsiders (i am not a forum hoar) perspective.

 

good bye forum. this is one thing this game could do without.