Forbes thinks TOR is a financial disaster for EA. Your thoughts

[GalacticKegger]

You don't got to really be covering games for 30+ yrs to see swtor is the titanic of gaming history. Sad but true.

If you are referring to the author in question Mr. Tassi, he is all of 25 years old (maybe 24, I don't remember exactly what his bio stated) and has been covering video games for all of 3 years. Now that is sad but true. You are entitled to your opinion though, which is all it is ... opinion.

 

"One doesn't have to cover games for 30+ yrs to see that swtor is gaming history's titanic." There, I fixed it for you.

Edited July 30, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[LordKOLZ]

If you are referring to the author in question Mr. Tassi, he is all of 25 years old (maybe 24, I don't remember exactly what his bio stated) and has been covering video games for all of 3 years. Now that is sad but true. You are entitled to your opinion though, which is all it is ... opinion.

 

lol I really can't say I care how old the guy or is how he looks to be honest because either way it's not gonna help this game. And instead of opinions I look at facts like the game losing over 400k in an extremely short amount or time, lay offs, and the game being down to 12 us servers only. The facts are there is nothing ever but bad news reported for this game.

Edited July 30, 2012 by LordKOLZ

[GalacticKegger]

lol I really can't say I care how old the guy or is how he looks to be honest because either way it's not gonna help this game. And instead of opinions I look at facts like the game losing over 400k in an extremely short amount or time, lay offs, and the game being down to 12 us servers only. The facts are there is nothing ever but bad news reported for this game.

Well, between your ears nothing is going to help this game. So my question is this ... why are you here to hurt it?

 

[NOTE: points are deducted if a supervisor has to answer the question for you.]

Edited July 30, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[TheLordMagnus]

No they didn't regain the subs they once had. Just because they regain some "activity' from F2P model, they did not regain subs or even the activity they once had during their peak.

 

i play lotro and it has way more active players then this and i was there before ftp stop talking now there there:cool:

[LordKOLZ]

Well, between your ears nothing is going to help this game. So my question is this ... why are you here to hurt it?

 

[NOTE: points are deducted if a supervisor has to answer the question for you.]

 

Maybe not but my money does help it unlike the leeching kids that have to use other peoples accounts to play. And I am hurting it by stating how horrid the game is doing? Sorry I don't have blind fanboyism syndrome going on like you cool people do but I never been good being a mindless following sheep like you people. The dev's are hurting the game enough as it is and nothing I will say can help or hurt it so deal with it. The point of the forums is to type and that's what I am doing because I can.

[DarthScruffy]

I think what they are saying is being taken out of context. It's not that TOR is a failure, it's the fact that it failed to reach the level that it was expected to. The game itself is profitable and is generating a decent level of revenue. It's just not the blockbusting wow killer it was hyped up to be, and that in turn killed investor confidence.

 

There was so much out of context it is funny. People are spinning it such that SWTOR would decimate EA. Hitching their wagons to Facebook and their digital delivery service would probably scare investors much more.

[Yogol]

They made up their investment already. How is making a slight profit, a disaster? Is it a resounding hit/success? That's debatable. But is is it a disaster? Certainly not/

 

Because companies borrow money to make games like this and borrowing money costs money.

 

They started six YEARS ago with this game... they had to wait till six months ago to get money. All that time, they had to pay interest on the money they borrowed. Even when you pay it out of your own capital (which I seriously doubt), investors want a decent return-on-investement once the money comes in.

 

Do not forget that from every 50$ in sales, only a part end up in Bioware's pocket because the stores get money, the ''affiliated sites'' get money... And from that 15$ a month, they got to pay alot of stuff, like servers, internet capacity, CSRs...

 

The game sold 1,7m copies... even if you count 40$ per sold game for Bioware (I am being generous), that's only 68m... and 6 months monthly fee x 10$ x 1,2m (users on average the last 6 months), that's only 72m... add that up and SWTOR made only 140m back so far... from a 500m investement... even the biggest fanboi can not call that a financial succes...

 

No wonder there are rumours that they will pull the plug out of this game. Altough I think it would be easily doable to keep the game runnin gon a profit, even for 500,000 subs. They won't ever get their initial money back, but that doesn't mean closing the game down is the best thing to do.

 

I think that the biggest test for this game will come in a few months, when the current subs (myself included) have all classes at 50... that is when even people like me will ask ''what is there to do for me''.

 

All the fanbois that are posting here, attacking everyone who dares to comment on the game, don't help either: there is nothing worse for a company than not knowing why people don't like their 500,000,000$ product, because they are bullied into silence by fanbois.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Yogol

[ChrisNapier]

A lot of well argued points have came about in this thread but also a load of fanboys and a load of game haters have trolled this thread with arguaments that don't contribute to this thread and also to the game.

 

I don't post on the forums much as I would prefer to play the game rather than argue about it but on the fourms I often see threads like this bashing the game, in my opinion the game is fine, it could do with some updates and fixes here and there but a 7 month MMO will have its problems whether it is bugs or subscriptions. I followed this game from day 1 and I don't blame EA or Bioware for the hype it received I blamed the community. The community was calling it the WoW killer and the community was watching videos and developing their own featyres of the game which they would say are in the game and I believe that Bioware has done what they said they would do.

 

Forbes CAN BE a good source of financial information but you have to remember that may be one or two persons opinion of this game. I don't think it is right in saying that just because Forbes says that SWTOR is a financial disaster that it is. Only EA and investors will truly know if that is the case or not.

 

I read a post recently saying that maybe the devs have been quiet is because they are planning a head (like some want) and they would prefer to get everything planned before they consult the community. This could be an idea or maybe they are developing the game like they are paid to do. Who knows but I am sure that the doors of the chocolate factory will open soon (reference to Charlie and the Chocolate factory as amazing things happend when the factory was reopened and silence was broken)

 

Finally I want to talk about the recent layoff (or contract endings). Any freelance contractor will know that one day they won't be needed and sadly that day came for the contractors working in the Bioware studios. I don't believe that the recent "layoffs" will affect the game in anyway as there is still probably hundreds of developers working on this game.

 

Too conclude this I want to publicise the point that this game isn't goin to grow if people keep knocking the game when it is already at a low point. Some times critisicing the game will be good and sometimes it isn't needed. Creating threads that you feel would cause arguaments between fanboys and game haters should really tell you that the thread won't be helpful in any way.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ChrisNapier

[Emeda]

if you honestly can't read there is not much I can do for you.

 

Oh wait I just realized who you are. Nevermind there is no way to help you

 

I told you that trying to discredit what I say by saying try and read it again doesnt work.

 

Instead you have to try with the personal attacks to try and make my statements wrong.

 

Kind of bad when you cant use the game to defend the game.

[jarjarloves]

I told you that trying to discredit what I say by saying try and read it again doesnt work.

 

Instead you have to try with the personal attacks to try and make my statements wrong.

 

Kind of bad when you cant use the game to defend the game.

 

that doesn't make any sense

[AERHAE]

that doesn't make any sense

Oh yes it does,it's perfectly clear.

[jarjarloves]

You don't got to really be covering games for 30+ yrs to see swtor is the titanic of gaming history. Sad but true.

 

ROFL not even close. If any game was the Titanic of games it would be E.T. for the Atari.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTjLG3usQo

 

A game so bad the millions of unsold copies got burried in a landfill. The copies that where sold where almost all returned. It was so bad it basically killed the Atari 2600.

 

The Titanic of MMOs would easily be Tabula Rasa (with Vanguard Saga of Heroes in second place)

 

A game so bad that at best it only sold 125,000 copies. 1 month after launch the sub numbers where down to 20,000. That's a 16% retention rate.

 

Not only that but it was so bad that Retailers couldn't even return their copies. They couldn't even give them away for free! They ended up dumping them in the trash. Collectors editions too

 

http://kotaku.com/5128881/looking-at-the-mmo-crash-of-2008

 

A game that was so bad it didn't even make it to Free to Play. It was cheaper to just shut the game down entirely.

 

http://www.alteredgamer.com/other-mmorpg/28629-history-timeline-and-post-mortem-of-tabula-rasa/

 

With Richard Garriot winning the 28 million dollar law suit against NCSoft Tabula Rasa's budget might even be bigger then SWTOR's It was easily over $100 million.

 

So next time instead of saying something really stupid like "SWTOR is the Titanic it's the biggest fail in gaming history"

SWTOR sold 2.2 million box copies it's first month which according to EA made it's budget back. After what 4 months it still had 1.3 MILLION people playing. Odds are now it still has some where north of 500k paid subscribers. Which still makes it the second largest western MMO. If the game when F2P then I'm sure it would probably end up becoming the most succesful F2P game out there.

So how in gods name is SWTOR the Titanic of gaming history?

 

Shut your mouth and do some research first.

Edited July 30, 2012 by jarjarloves

[islander]

The reason valve never went public is because they knew it would hurt their bottom line, because as soon as you let investors run your company is the moment you start making cr@ppy games.

 

This also applies to letting EA buy your company.

[-Dench]

At the end of my 6 month sub, goodbye SWTOR.

 

I don't even think I'll be coming back if it goes to F2P unless they implement some really cool features.

[islander]

Explain Diablo 3 first week sales then?

 

Blizzard banked on 15 years of goodwill towards that game. Diablo 3 was a half assed product, and I'm amazed it isn't getting the 'tortanic' treatment.

 

It just strikes me as a situation where everyone, media includes, hates EA and takes every chance to bury them.

 

I thik BF3 was dollar for dollar the bigger failure, but that appears to be ignored. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm still trying to figure out how having 1 million subs is a failure, when they recouped all of their expenses on 2 million + box sales and 3 months of around 1.5 million paid subs.

 

As long as they are making a profit month by month going forward, they should be good. I suspect shutting down 75% of their servers is a good thing towards this end, despite the 50-100 subs per server that think otherwise.

Edited July 30, 2012 by islander

[Blackardin]

ROFL not even close. If any game was the Titanic of games it would be E.T. for the Atari.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTjLG3usQo

 

A game so bad the millions of unsold copies got burried in a landfill. The copies that where sold where almost all returned. It was so bad it basically killed the Atari 2600.

 

The Titanic of MMOs would easily be Tabula Rasa (with Vanguard Saga of Heroes in second place)

 

A game so bad that at best it only sold 125,000 copies. 1 month after launch the sub numbers where down to 20,000. That's a 16% retention rate.

 

Not only that but it was so bad that Retailers couldn't even return their copies. They couldn't even give them away for free! They ended up dumping them in the trash. Collectors editions too

 

http://kotaku.com/5128881/looking-at-the-mmo-crash-of-2008

 

A game that was so bad it didn't even make it to Free to Play. It was cheaper to just shut the game down entirely.

 

http://www.alteredgamer.com/other-mmorpg/28629-history-timeline-and-post-mortem-of-tabula-rasa/

 

With Richard Garriot winning the 28 million dollar law suit against NCSoft Tabula Rasa's budget might even be bigger then SWTOR's It was easily over $100 million.

 

So next time instead of saying something really stupid like "SWTOR is the Titanic it's the biggest fail in gaming history"

SWTOR sold 2.2 million box copies it's first month which according to EA made it's budget back. After what 4 months it still had 1.3 MILLION people playing. Odds are now it still has some where north of 500k paid subscribers. Which still makes it the second largest western MMO. If the game when F2P then I'm sure it would probably end up becoming the most succesful F2P game out there.

So how in gods name is SWTOR the Titanic of gaming history?

 

Shut your mouth and do some research first.

 

Had to quote this. Absolutely well stated.

 

Honestly. I log onto these boards each day and I find myself more and more amazed at the nonsense I'm reading here. Never have I seen so many uninformed opinions being passed off as knowledge. Some paid disparager posts a negative article on the boards and all these guppies jump on it like its a minnow on the hook.

 

Bottom line here is that the game is both fun and entertaining, and has been since launch. They are adding content at an exceptional rate (well ahead of the curve). It is a profitable endeavor (as the financials demonstrate), and there are many of us playing it every day and having a ball doing so.

 

This board does, not at all, represent the playerbase for this game. It represents a very vocal minority of self proclaimed "experts", nothing more.

[Valkirus]

I told you that trying to discredit what I say by saying try and read it again doesnt work.

 

Instead you have to try with the personal attacks to try and make my statements wrong.

 

Kind of bad when you cant use the game to defend the game.

 

There are some posters who resort to personal attacks. And I have had to put them on ignore. Best way to handle those who are like that.

[Emeda]

Blizzard banked on 15 years of goodwill towards that game. Diablo 3 was a half assed product, and I'm amazed it isn't getting the 'tortanic' treatment.

 

It just strikes me as a situation where everyone, media includes, hates EA and takes every chance to bury them.

 

I thik BF3 was dollar for dollar the bigger failure, but that appears to be ignored. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm still trying to figure out how having 1 million subs is a failure, when they recouped all of their expenses on 2 million + box sales and 3 months of around 1.5 million paid subs.

 

As long as they are making a profit month by month going forward, they should be good. I suspect shutting down 75% of their servers is a good thing towards this end, despite the 100-200 people/accounts per server that think otherwise.

 

So you think if they drop down to 1 server and fire everyone that works on the game and have a minimul crew just so people can log into the game and they have enough players to cover those small costs, that that would be good?

 

Also your numbers are wrong. In your thinking you think that all 1.3 of the subs they had in may had been playing since launch? Thats not the case. Funny how you guys will use the numbers the way you want to use them and then when we use numbers we are always using them wrong.

 

The failure isnt measured in dollars. At least it shouldnt be for anyone that plays. The failure is in that it was unable to hold peoples intrest for that long.

 

300k+ quit in the first month

another 400k+ quit in the next 3 months

for a total of 700k players quitting in the first 4 months of the game.

It is also obvious to anyone that looks that it has dropped again after 7 months. be it 300k or 500k or 700k. If its 700k then that means that over 1/2 of the players playing the game in the last 3 months have quit.

[Blackardin]

Correction. The game sold 2.4 million copies I think. But that also means close to half of the original players are no longer playing the game.

 

So what, Val. What does that have to do with anything beyond fishing for something negative to say about a game?

 

Look, It has become clear that you will fish for any negative you can so as to disparage this game and bolster Wow (which has lost almost 2 mil subs and continues to do so). You are not even playing the game (as you've admited). If you love Wow so much, go play wow. I don't understand. For the life of me I cannot understand why one would hang around a game that they do not play just to bash it 10 to 20 times a day. ...unless that individual has some hidden agenda.

 

The fanboys try to bully those who have objections to the game and input on how it can be improved, but for the most part they fail. The truth cannot be hidden. I pretty much ignore them and continue to post what I feel is needed. They can spit and fuss all they want. lol.

 

They are not objections, Val. They are game bashing, and uninformed game bashing at that.....and likewise, as long as this silliness goes on, including your little name calling, I will be hear to expose the conjecture, the agendas, and the silliness.

 

I'll say it again. The game is fine. Like all early release MMORPGs it is not fully matured, but this game has great promise. I, and many others look forward to many years of playing. What I'm growing tired of is not the game, but what I see on these boards each day that is being passed off as informed debate.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Blackardin

[Blackardin]

There are some posters who resort to personal attacks. And I have had to put them on ignore. Best way to handle those who are like that.

 

You just leveled one at all of us that disagree with your conjecture and your agenda. What are you talking about?

[Tommohawk]

I told you that trying to discredit what I say by saying try and read it again doesnt work.

 

Instead you have to try with the personal attacks to try and make my statements wrong.

 

Kind of bad when you cant use the game to defend the game.

 

 

I just had to comment on your signature!

 

I LOVE this game - yes, it needs improvements, but all games do and it's not like it's aged much! - and I'm on the forum because I'm on my breaks / lunch breaks at work.

[Valkirus]

So what, Val. What does that have to do with anything beyond fishing for something negative to say about a game?

 

Look, It has become clear that you will fish for any negative you can so as to disparage this game and bolster Wow (which has lost almost 2 mil subs and continues to do so). You are not even playing the game (as you've admited). If you love Wow so much, go play wow. I don't understand. For the life of me I cannot understand why one would hang around a game that they do not play just to bash it 10 to 20 times a day. ...unless that individual has some hidden agenda.

 

 

 

They are not objections, Val. They are game bashing, and uninformed game bashing at that.....and likewise, as long as this silliness goes on, including your little name calling, I will be hear to expose the conjecture, the agendas, and the silliness.

 

I'll say it again. The game is fine. Like all early release MMORPGs it is not fully matured, but this game has great promise. I, and many others look forward to many years of playing. What I'm growing tired of is not the game, but what I see on these boards each day that is being passed off as informed debate.

 

It's all cool. Atleast you make some effort to be somewhat respectful in your posts. My agenda is I would like to see the game improve. But that is not going happen if all they see is posts from those who like the game as it is now. But hang in there..you only have about 3 more weeks to put up with my input.

[Emeda]

What I'm growing tired of is not the game, but what I see on these boards each day that is being passed off as informed debate.

 

You dont have to read the forums. No one is forcing you to come here, you can easily just log in and play the game.

 

How about you play the game instead of caring about what people are saying on the forums since it has been proven by all the fanboiz that only .01% of the playerbase visits the forums anyways and that small minority group of players are all haters anyways.

 

Go on. I dare you go play the game since its so fun :p

[Tommohawk]

had to quote this. Absolutely well stated.

 

Honestly. I log onto these boards each day and i find myself more and more amazed at the nonsense i'm reading here. Never have i seen so many uninformed opinions being passed off as knowledge. Some paid disparager posts a negative article on the boards and all these guppies jump on it like its a minnow on the hook.

 

Bottom line here is that the game is both fun and entertaining, and has been since launch. They are adding content at an exceptional rate (well ahead of the curve). It is a profitable endeavor (as the financials demonstrate), and there are many of us playing it every day and having a ball doing so.

 

This board does, not at all, represent the playerbase for this game. It represents a very vocal minority of self proclaimed "experts", nothing more.

 

 

here here!!!

[Blackardin]

300k+ quit in the first month

another 400k+ quit in the next 3 months

for a total of 700k players quitting in the first 4 months of the game.

It is also obvious to anyone that looks that it has dropped again after 7 months. be it 300k or 500k or 700k. If its 700k then that means that over 1/2 of the players playing the game in the last 3 months have quit.

 

....and that means what....beyond a chance to bash them out of context?

 

Wow has lost a million subs in the same amount of time, almost 2 million in the last year and they are losing more each day. Every gaming company is now losing subs and the industry is in a steep downward spiral

 

This is what I am speaking about in regard to uninformed game bashing. First, it's all speculation as no hard numbers are available for the current quarter (trust me, if they were the bashers would be parading them all over this forum). Second, the bashers are cherry picking a fabricated number, ignoring the greater picture, and using them out of context to bash this game with out of context argument.