Sorcs in current pvp state

[Steele_dk]

http://qkme.me/3q90w3

 

lol

[prodigyqnz]

well now.. lol

[FrumpytheClown]

This is only my opinion and my personal expierence.

In my opinion the Sorcerer, when played correctly is not the laughing stock everyone claims it to be. Please note the "correctly."

On my server, when I walk onto a battlefield I am marked like any other healer, except I am a DPS (Madness) and the enemy knows this. I am focused. So I kite, and I run them into my tank and healer team mates. I do die a lot, but top of the DPS lists and most medals is nothing to laugh at. I die a lot less or not at all when I don't get careless through over confidence.

It is my observation that the Sorcerer - healer or DPS is the hardest class to play. So many roll one thinking it will be an over powered class when in reality it requires a lot of frustration to even begin to understand it. So many people quit or do not understand how to play the class properly so they make the class look bad.

Just my opinion gathered from having played a DPS Sorc since closed beta, up to today still. I love it, and never plan to complain that it is flawed.

It is not perfect mind you, but it is not the "bad" class many are making it out to be.

[JeffIncredible]

This is only my opinion and my personal expierence.

In my opinion the Sorcerer, when played correctly is not the laughing stock everyone claims it to be. Please note the "correctly."

On my server, when I walk onto a battlefield I am marked like any other healer, except I am a DPS (Madness) and the enemy knows this. I am focused. So I kite, and I run them into my tank and healer team mates. I do die a lot, but top of the DPS lists and most medals is nothing to laugh at. I die a lot less or not at all when I don't get careless through over confidence.

It is my observation that the Sorcerer - healer or DPS is the hardest class to play. So many roll one thinking it will be an over powered class when in reality it requires a lot of frustration to even begin to understand it. So many people quit or do not understand how to play the class properly so they make the class look bad.

Just my opinion gathered from having played a DPS Sorc since closed beta, up to today still. I love it, and never plan to complain that it is flawed.

It is not perfect mind you, but it is not the "bad" class many are making it out to be.

 

When you have to work twice as hard then there is something wrong. If you are leading your WZ in damage there is something wrong. And unless you don't have an Agent Healer or some ridiculous protection you shouldn't be leading the WZ in healing either. Just the reality of things.

[Stim]

On the whole I enjoy playing a sorc in PVP although it is evident that there are some issues that need fixing.

 

Sorcs are fairly balanced themselves if you know how to work the class. They can pump out a fair bit of damage and it's not unreasonable to see them top the damage in warzones.

 

One thing that sorcs lack though is burst damage, so the key to winning fights is typically one of survivability/kiting. Due to this there's only a couple of real DPS specs you can use in PVP (of which the majority of points tend to be in madness because of mobility, as lightning leaves you stood casting like a turret welded to the ground.)

 

Despite the utilities we have though, I often find that there are classes that can pin you down and batter you regardless of how well you play. There are few and without naming the classes, which are typically of a melee nature () the forum feedback I've seen so far tends to agree.

 

Once your CD's are up or the enemy of one of these classes is at full resolve, it's pretty much game over as you're a sitting duck.

 

I've had a fair bit of wz experience and this is just my opinion of what I've experienced so far. I'm by no means saying I'm a master when it comes to playing vs. all types of classes and I accept that there are some classes which are meant to "counter" others. The difference to me though between sorc vs one class and another in PVP is vast, though and I believe there's still an imbalance.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you know how to play your class, you should stand at least a chance vs. all classes in PVP, but I don't believe that this is case.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Stim

[FrumpytheClown]

I agree, there is a balance issue, specially compared to the "mirror" of Sorc, the Sage. But that debate aside, I do not need to have an Opperative healer to survive and never die, just common sense IF it kicks in during the heat of the battle, LOL!

The fact that I am topping the leader board does not mean something is wrong just that I played my class correctly, unless I am guarding a Node and then I should be way down at the bottom of the score board.

[veyl]

Here's the thing about topping damage meters in WZ's:

 

Anyone can pad numbers. Our hybrid build was nerfed BECAUSE of number padding and it was a shame because that spec was the only real burst this class ever had.

 

It's especially easy because of the amount of dots + duration of those dots when not cleansed we can spread out coupled with Death fielding a pack of people. You can run to a node filled with five people, dot all of them between creeping terror // affliction // instant cd ... Deathfield them and be moving on up in that leader board. Does that make a difference? Absolutely not. It might add a little pressure, but nowhere near compares to the damage pressure of a Marauder/sentinel or Vanguard//PT. Hell, even a sniper//gunslinger left untouched will obliterate more than one person before they're taken out. The damage from dots are simply too slow and weak to make an impact in the PVP game.

 

I can play my sorc perfectly and still lose to under-geared, well playing player because of the lack of Defensive CD's that a squishy class should have. (Bubble is a joke. One main ability from any dps class in BM gear will drop it and the debuff is up long enough for you to be dead before it's ready again.) 1267 expertise against a battlemaster geared -insert dps class here- will still crit me for 4k +. 1300 expertise opponents hit me for 5k+. This is where the balance issue comes into play because my sorc CANNOT do the follow up damage after a deathfield crit (Which is only 4k at max non expertise buffed) . DoT damage is too low and unless I play perfectly against a melee class and kite them to death, I will die in a matter of 3 gcds. As for ranged classes, if there's no pillar for me to hump while I pop out and shock/deathfield from behind it, I will be straight up killed 1v1.

 

The sorc class takes a much greater time to kill an (battlemaster + geared) )opponent and is easily the squishiest in the game. The trade offs // balance is completely off and that's why you rarely see them in Rateds. Why take a "support" class, when it is easily destroyed by the burst dps out there.

 

This is all extremely noticeable in the "Class Feedback" thread above. Almost every single post that is pvp related states "Weakest pvp class in the game currently" or something along those lines.

[FodderofCannon]

Funny thing is pre-50 this class rocked in PvP, when classes like Mara dint have a billion defensive cds you could actually kite them to some effectiveness. Class was fun, but din't feel overpowered.

 

Hit 50, and it is simply (dps specced anyhow) the worst class I have played for pvp. Even my Inf Shadow as gimped as they are, feels more powerful.

 

I tired heals for a bit, and yeah that's viable spec for pvp, but I din't roll a Sorc to be a healer, I rolled one to destroy the Republic with UNLIMITED POWER!!!

 

They should just rework it to make it more of a traditional glass cannon. This "sustained dps" is not really working.

[Todgins]

I've just finished my 5pc warhero, and I don't seem to have too many problems.

Although, we could use a little more defense so this won't happen through 1100 expertise:

 

[19:01:52.360] [@Maz'or] [@Galxia] [Force Sweep {812178315673600}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5638* kinetic {836045448940873}) <5638>

Edited August 4, 2012 by Todgins

[veyl]

I've just finished my 5pc warhero, and I don't seem to have too many problems.

Although, we could use a little more defense so this won't happen through 1100 expertise:

 

[19:01:52.360] [@Maz'or] [@Galxia] [Force Sweep {812178315673600}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5638* kinetic {836045448940873}) <5638>

 

1267 expertise, force screamed for 5780.

[Paulman]

If you are a good player, work hard and learn the class, you can do pretty well. You might even get close to preforming as well as a five year old that plays a pyro powertech.

[Larry_Dallas]

Here's the thing about topping damage meters in WZ's:

 

Anyone can pad numbers. Our hybrid build was nerfed BECAUSE of number padding and it was a shame because that spec was the only real burst this class ever had.

 

It's especially easy because of the amount of dots + duration of those dots when not cleansed we can spread out coupled with Death fielding a pack of people. You can run to a node filled with five people, dot all of them between creeping terror // affliction // instant cd ... Deathfield them and be moving on up in that leader board. Does that make a difference? Absolutely not. It might add a little pressure, but nowhere near compares to the damage pressure of a Marauder/sentinel or Vanguard//PT. Hell, even a sniper//gunslinger left untouched will obliterate more than one person before they're taken out. The damage from dots are simply too slow and weak to make an impact in the PVP game.

 

I can play my sorc perfectly and still lose to under-geared, well playing player because of the lack of Defensive CD's that a squishy class should have. (Bubble is a joke. One main ability from any dps class in BM gear will drop it and the debuff is up long enough for you to be dead before it's ready again.) 1267 expertise against a battlemaster geared -insert dps class here- will still crit me for 4k +. 1300 expertise opponents hit me for 5k+. This is where the balance issue comes into play because my sorc CANNOT do the follow up damage after a deathfield crit (Which is only 4k at max non expertise buffed) . DoT damage is too low and unless I play perfectly against a melee class and kite them to death, I will die in a matter of 3 gcds. As for ranged classes, if there's no pillar for me to hump while I pop out and shock/deathfield from behind it, I will be straight up killed 1v1.

 

The sorc class takes a much greater time to kill an (battlemaster + geared) )opponent and is easily the squishiest in the game. The trade offs // balance is completely off and that's why you rarely see them in Rateds. Why take a "support" class, when it is easily destroyed by the burst dps out there.

 

This is all extremely noticeable in the "Class Feedback" thread above. Almost every single post that is pvp related states "Weakest pvp class in the game currently" or something along those lines.

 

Probably because Mercs are in such a bad place they all re-rolled powertechs. Seriously, your class has nothing on their problems.

[veyl]

Probably because Mercs are in such a bad place they all re-rolled powertechs. Seriously, your class has nothing on their problems.

 

Mercs are just the -other- red headed stepchild of PVP and have been for the longest time. I will 100% agree with them needing a pvp adjustment as well. However, Mercs still have much higher burst then a Sorc does with a Tracer>heatseeker > unload then a Sorc does with Force lightning > Death Field > shock. (( You also have an ability to make your Tracer instant, even with a semi long CD, that's more powerful than anything a sorc has at it's disposal because you can also use that instant for Rapid scan. ((Which will heal harder than any dps spec sorc cast heal)))

[LordExozone]

I still think the lightning/madness hybrid is the way to go for PvP. Burst may be poor, but you have good sustained damage and a decent number of ways to escape from unfavorable encounters. I do see good dps sorcerers topping the damage and killingblows done in warzones @50 and with the least amount of deaths on the team.

 

Not to mention there is some versaility to the class, as you can switch to a support role if needs be, shielding someone in trouble or tossing out some heals. Not to mention the good mobility thanks to sprint, allowing sorcerers to move more quickly to objectives in trouble etc.

[DarthRaika]

For the chart sorc is still great and always was. The pure dot spec actually got a buff and is better than it was. The chart doesn't matter though. I topped thte chart many times on my sorc while knowing i was still far less important then the lower dmg ptech or marauder that put out major burst.

[LordQordisz]

Yes it takes patience to be a Sorc healer. Alot of running, alot of dying and getting hit hard. Still I like it.

[IIIGinoIII]

Yes it takes patience to be a Sorc healer. Alot of running, alot of dying and getting hit hard. Still I like it.

 

I swear with the increase in Guardian play, my play with the Sorc diminishes. It's like two Guardians see me, both of them LEAP---> MASTER STRIKE------> DEAD.

 

I wish i could record it, I would make a video called Sorc Death Montage.

 

Does anyone play other classes and compare their survivability and how long they last. I'm almost full Ranked WZ Gear on Sorc. I moved to sniper the Guardian killer class and survive much longer.

Edited August 10, 2012 by IIIGinoIII

[TheLordMaster]

I've just finished my 5pc warhero, and I don't seem to have too many problems.

Although, we could use a little more defense so this won't happen through 1100 expertise:

 

[19:01:52.360] [@Maz'or] [@Galxia] [Force Sweep {812178315673600}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5638* kinetic {836045448940873}) <5638>

 

That will happen no matter what. Rage Juggs and their equivilant do not need to stack crit or main stat. They can stack all power and surge and b/c of their rotation sweep/smash will auto crit every time which can occur every 12 seconds. As a result their surge is extremely high and their power is extremely high so their force crits will hit that hard no matter what.

 

Your best defense is to learn to watch their stacks and when it gets to 4 you know smash/sweep is coming next so cc/ get the **** out of there.

[Larry_Dallas]

Mercs are just the -other- red headed stepchild of PVP and have been for the longest time. I will 100% agree with them needing a pvp adjustment as well. However, Mercs still have much higher burst then a Sorc does with a Tracer>heatseeker > unload then a Sorc does with Force lightning > Death Field > shock. (( You also have an ability to make your Tracer instant, even with a semi long CD, that's more powerful than anything a sorc has at it's disposal because you can also use that instant for Rapid scan. ((Which will heal harder than any dps spec sorc cast heal)))

 

A merc's burst is irrelevant to their problems, which are

 

1) if they're arsenal and get interrupted, which they will, there's nothing they can do

2) they have no tools with which they can disrupt incoming damage and remove themselves from harm's way. This applies to every skill configuration. Sorcerors do not have anything like this problem.

3) they lose every matchup with every spec of every AC due to 1 and 2

 

What tracer does or doesn't do in terms of burst is irrelevant. They'll never get a cast off.

 

 

I still think the lightning/madness hybrid is the way to go for PvP. Burst may be poor, but you have good sustained damage and a decent number of ways to escape from unfavorable encounters. I do see good dps sorcerers topping the damage and killingblows done in warzones @50 and with the least amount of deaths on the team.

 

Not to mention there is some versaility to the class, as you can switch to a support role if needs be, shielding someone in trouble or tossing out some heals. Not to mention the good mobility thanks to sprint, allowing sorcerers to move more quickly to objectives in trouble etc.

 

The lightning/madness hybrid has garbage sustained damage on a single target. If one of those is topping damage charts, it's with crap aoe that is undone almost instantly. That variant's chain-lightning, for instance, takes a whopping 1gcd instant cast for an op healer to erase. That's one GCD to erase a six-second channel, unless they're spamming lightning strike, which is also garbage in a warzone.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[Larry_Dallas]

I swear with the increase in Guardian play, my play with the Sorc diminishes. It's like two Guardians see me, both of them LEAP---> MASTER STRIKE------> DEAD.

 

I wish i could record it, I would make a video called Sorc Death Montage.

 

Does anyone play other classes and compare their survivability and how long they last. I'm almost full Ranked WZ Gear on Sorc. I moved to sniper the Guardian killer class and survive much longer.

 

I play a Carnage Mara, a PT (sometimes tank, sometimes pyro), a gunslinger and an op healer.

 

All sorcs are easy prey for carnage.

 

The dps hybrids may as well be irrelevant to all of these classes (with the possible exception of the 28 point spec, which is still weaker than full m/b). The only time I can recall any of them presenting a problem for any of these classes is when the GS was low on energy because I went chasing a kill.

 

But full madness/balance is a complete pain to deal with on an op healer. Probably the single most annoying class to be focused by, since none of your defenses work on them, apart from surgical probe, if that counts. Unless they saved recklessness for your last 30% or you have bad luck with tactical advantage, they can't down you, but they can keep you occupied healing yourself indefinitely, and unlike a pyro (which is the other class that's annoying to be harassed by), you can't get away.

 

Full balance/madness is also capable of downing a pyro. If they engage at 25 or so meters, you need pull, stunbreak and your stun to be available or they can outpace you by remaining outside 10m. Even then, you need to time your stun for during their sprint, which isn't easy.

 

They also mean death for a gunslinger if they see you first or at the same time and there's anything to line of sight you anywhere near where they're standing. On all classes except the Carnage mara, I'm glad this myth that the hybrid dps is viable is still perpetuated, because balance/madness is so, so annoying. When I see it on the sorc forums, I just find it bizarre. All those threads crying about annihilation maras or rage juggs killing sorcs and none of the people complaining have ever taken a second to wonder if maybe they're having such a hard time because they're playing a dead spec.

 

Corruption hybrids are pretty effective, though.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[Chemic_al]

But full madness/balance is a complete pain to deal with on an op healer. Probably the single most annoying class to be focused by, since none of your defenses work on them, apart from surgical probe, if that counts. Unless they saved recklessness for your last 30% or you have bad luck with tactical advantage, they can't down you, but they can keep you occupied healing yourself indefinitely, and unlike a pyro (which is the other class that's annoying to be harassed by), you can't get away.

.

 

Of course madness sorcs can't down an op or even merc healer - no execute move, and no burst.

 

It's kinda why dps sorcs suck in PvP, well that and no defensive cooldowns, not to mention weakest dps, and before someone spouts the infamous u-word "utility", maras, assassins and pts do so much more.

[Larry_Dallas]

Of course madness sorcs can't down an op or even merc healer - no execute move, and no burst.

 

It's kinda why dps sorcs suck in PvP, well that and no defensive cooldowns, not to mention weakest dps, and before someone spouts the infamous u-word "utility", maras, assassins and pts do so much more.

 

What you're not realizing is that next to nothing can down an op healer unless he's unlucky with tactical advantage and/or has both stuns, stunbreak, evasion and vanish cooling down. Or, I guess, gets pulled into a fire pit by a Vanguard.

 

Madness has a better chance than pretty much anything of killing an op healer 1 on 1 because neither stun works (the sorc will never be in range of them), line of sighting doesn't work (deathfield can hit around pillars and those ticks keep on ticking back there), cleansing the dots doesn't work, evasion doesn't work and vanish breaks after 2 seconds. Madness -probably- can't wipe out that last 30% health unless they're lucky but neither can anyone else.

 

Danger to an op healer from single enemy, in order:

1. Madness sorc

2. Concealment op

3. Carnage mara

4. Deception assassin

 

And the last three are only dangerous if you've got particular things cooling down

 

 

Annoyance to an op healer from single enemy, in order

1. Madness sorc

2. Pyro

3. Madness assassin

[IIIGinoIII]

Last night I was playing my Sorc, saw another Sorc playing as DPS spec. I thought well here is another useless DPS Sorc. We were playing Voidstar and we were on offense first. After the first wave we reached the last door but didn't get it open. The other team got to the second door. I had my typical 150k+ Damage and 300k+ Healing. But I also try to guess the top class with most damage. My mouth dropped as I saw the DPS Sorc with 500K+ damage.

 

It was on The Shadowlands server, "answer" was their name.

 

Someone is doing something right.

[veyl]

What you're not realizing is that next to nothing can down an op healer unless he's unlucky with tactical advantage and/or has both stuns, stunbreak, evasion and vanish cooling down. Or, I guess, gets pulled into a fire pit by a Vanguard.

 

Madness has a better chance than pretty much anything of killing an op healer 1 on 1 because neither stun works (the sorc will never be in range of them), line of sighting doesn't work (deathfield can hit around pillars and those ticks keep on ticking back there), cleansing the dots doesn't work, evasion doesn't work and vanish breaks after 2 seconds. Madness -probably- can't wipe out that last 30% health unless they're lucky but neither can anyone else.

 

Danger to an op healer from single enemy, in order:

1. Madness sorc

2. Concealment op

3. Carnage mara

4. Deception assassin

 

And the last three are only dangerous if you've got particular things cooling down

 

 

Annoyance to an op healer from single enemy, in order

1. Madness sorc

2. Pyro

3. Madness assassin

 

This was really funny. Thanks for the laugh.

 

First: Cleansing dots? Your probe hot negates them entirely, especially if you're war hero geared.

Second: Our "hard hitter" spells, you can heal up with one Injection. If we interrupted that, you can heal up with your TA heal. If we stun you after that, we might be able to "Burst" you for 6k... or 2 gcds with a Shock/Deathfield. But after that, we're SOL.

 

And third. There's plenty of sorcs/sages on teams: If they're not purging an operative healer, they're terrible. (even though, like I stated already, your hot negates our dots.)

 

Sorcs do not have the burst to kill equally geared healers, plain and simple. I would say we're more of a "mosquito" then a threat.

Edited August 14, 2012 by veyl

[veyl]

Last night I was playing my Sorc, saw another Sorc playing as DPS spec. I thought well here is another useless DPS Sorc. We were playing Voidstar and we were on offense first. After the first wave we reached the last door but didn't get it open. The other team got to the second door. I had my typical 150k+ Damage and 300k+ Healing. But I also try to guess the top class with most damage. My mouth dropped as I saw the DPS Sorc with 500K+ damage.

 

It was on The Shadowlands server, "answer" was their name.

 

Someone is doing something right.

 

That's me