First play some classes, then talk balance.

[Rogoo]

Like the title says.

 

Forum is overflooded with balance threads.

 

People generally seem to think that grass is always greener on the otherside.

 

So, IF you want to complain about balance, play more than one class. It will give you A LOT of insight on how to counter said class and it will also give you basic knowledge about balance in the game.

 

Sure, some classes need some minor tweaks here and there (I'm looking at you infilatration / deception Shadows / Sins), but overall it is not as bad as many people seem to think.

 

tl;dr -> If you only play one class and talk about balance - all you do is QQ. Stop it.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rogoo

[Daiyukie]

This is the same as a L2P post though; no one will listen.

[furiousferret]

I dont think there are any overly powered classes but lets not pretend its in perfect balance. In rateds you see a certain set of classes, and you rarely see certain other specs. While I think some of it is perception there are some balance issues.

 

There are too many, why bring class x when I can bring class y situations. There are also alot of cases where player X is amazing and knows his class spot on, but will lose a spot to player y who only has to press 3 buttons and misses his interrupts.

[Helig]

This is the same as a L2P post though; no one will listen.

 

Much better elaborated, though. Fully agree with OP.

[denpic]

When high ranking rated pvp guilds are only recruiting and stacking certain spec's and classes

It's an obvious sign of imbalance Lucky for me I chose a class that falls into this category

And I expect if bioware are serious about rated pvp

They will be balancing for season 1 after collecting the preseason data

[Vaipyr]

Slinger, VG, Op, Guardian in full aug BM so far. Can't be arsed to grind up WH before getting bored really. Also can't get my sage, sin or commando levelled past 20-30 either due to either how boring they are (ez mode sin example or just boring story/gameplay sage) or how blah they are (commando DPS).

 

Generally everyone knows the stupid classes. They're the fat kids picked last for kickball (RWZ's). Dps mandos/mercs for instance. It really doesn't take much study at all to see the obvious imbalances if you watch RWZ's at all.

[Leathen]

Like the title says.

 

Forum is overflooded with balance threads.

 

People generally seem to think that grass is always greener on the otherside.

 

So, IF you want to complain about balance, play more than one class. It will give you A LOT of insight on how to counter said class and it will also give you basic knowledge about balance in the game.

 

Sure, some classes need some minor tweaks here and there (I'm looking at you infilatration / deception Shadows / Sins), but overall it is not as bad as many people seem to think.

 

tl;dr -> If you only play one class and talk about balance - all you do is QQ. Stop it.

 

I have played Agent / Jug / Marauder / Powertech / Sorc

 

and IMO powertech and marauder are SERIOUSLY OP'd !

[Orcron]

I dont think there are any overly powered classes but lets not pretend its in perfect balance. In rateds you see a certain set of classes, and you rarely see certain other specs. While I think some of it is perception there are some balance issues.

 

There are too many, why bring class x when I can bring class y situations. There are also alot of cases where player X is amazing and knows his class spot on, but will lose a spot to player y who only has to press 3 buttons and misses his interrupts.

 

^^. This is what I am thinking. Every class I've faced has hit me just as hard as I've hit them. What I've personally find is it all boils down to the player skill and gear.

[Orcron]

When high ranking rated pvp guilds are only recruiting and stacking certain spec's and classes

It's an obvious sign of imbalance Lucky for me I chose a class that falls into this category

And I expect if bioware are serious about rated pvp

They will be balancing for season 1 after collecting the preseason data

 

Did you ever at all stop to think that maybe those maps favor some classes better then others? Or that some classes bring more to the table then other classes?

Let's look at this for a moment. Sage has a good punch to pack threw time. A vanguard has a good punch to pack plus he can debuff dmg out put on other teams. The sage can not debuff 30% less dmg That one move a lone can be very battle turning (30% dmg reduction).

Now if the maps was a lot bigger with say 5 nodes on it an your team needed to guard 3 of them in order to win then an only then classes be good to have for small fights.

All of the fights currently are 8/8 and are Pretty much large group fights. If it was a larger map and teams had to spread out more the smaller fights would come down to player skills and not 4-5 smashing one target.

My 2c

[kjkdollarbanny]

Main thing about balance is some classes have more utility then others.

and some classes are easier to make damage than others.

when 2 equally geared players with similar skill meet each other in a wz -> wins the guy with a simliest class.

for example - if you are clicker with bad hands you still can make 300-400k as PT and always have chance against any class.

And if you are scrapper scoundrel, DF gunslinger, JK vigilance - you have bunch of buttons and there is much bigger chance that you will spoil you rotation and lose.

[wolfmith]

So far I've played Sorc, Operative, Marauder, Juggernaut, Powertech, Mercenary. The others are too low for me to talk about them, but Sorc and Operative DPS are a pain to play, while Marauder, Powertech are ridiculously easy to use. So yeah, I can say F you and your L2P topic, the classes are unbalanced.

[Vaipyr]

I have played Agent / Jug / Marauder / Powertech / Sorc

 

and IMO powertech and marauder are SERIOUSLY OP'd !

 

Having done shield on my VG at 50, with supercommando set. It sucks. Hard

 

Having done Tactics, with both supercommando set and the combat tech set, its better, but as a tank.... which is ****ed up. It's still kind of poo.

 

Having now been playing Assault (pub version of pyro) it's indeed very OP'd and stupid easy (and still pulls 50k+ protection just via taunt use).

 

So, to break the norm, rather than call for a nerf to pyro/assault I will ask that shield, and tactics be buffed in order to perform at the same stupid powerful and stupid easy level. Thank you.

[Helig]

So far I've played Sorc, Operative, Marauder, Juggernaut, Powertech, Mercenary. The others are too low for me to talk about them, but Sorc and Operative DPS are a pain to play, while Marauder, Powertech are ridiculously easy to use. So yeah, I can say F you and your L2P topic, the classes are unbalanced.

 

Yeah, they are easy to use. Doesn't mean they're as OP as some mouth-breathers claim. The point of the OP, as I understand it, is that if you know the class, you know how to counter it, and in that, I fully agree. So rather than spew ignorant nonsense, a lot of people should just know their enemy (although many of them don't even know themselves, ergo, their class properly).

[Talsyrius]

I don't get why people keep saying "he push 3 buttons, that is op", because it is not like any class have a hard rotation. What is hard is positioning, los, and knowing when to use your cool downs, and it is in this department some classes have it way easyer then others... Not to mention that ranged classes have about the same dps output as most melee classes, but they can be interrupted... instant cast is king currently.

[Individual]

I have all of the above at lvl 50.... Murader, Assasin, Operative, Merc, Powertech.

 

The classes need to be balanced badly still. Muraders are far too op. Yes, I agree PTs have amazing burst, but they lack the same survivability that muraders get. Honestly, I think the PTs should be more of an example of what the other DPS classes should be.

 

I would like to see the other DPS classes buffed with maybe minor nerfs to the following:

 

1. Get rid of the full resist sheilds on all classes.

2. Get rid of undying rage or change it to midigate 70% of all incoming dmg.

3. Slight nerf to flame blurst (that way a nerf to PT's doesn't affect mercs).

4. Get rid of stealths on muraders.

[ArchangelLBC]

I have all of the above at lvl 50.... Murader, Assasin, Operative, Merc, Powertech.

 

The classes need to be balanced badly still. Muraders are far too op. Yes, I agree PTs have amazing burst, but they lack the same survivability that muraders get. Honestly, I think the PTs should be more of an example of what the other DPS classes should be.

 

I would like to see the other DPS classes buffed with maybe minor nerfs to the following:

 

1. Get rid of the full resist sheilds on all classes.

2. Get rid of undying rage or change it to midigate 70% of all incoming dmg.

3. Slight nerf to flame blurst (that way a nerf to PT's doesn't affect mercs).

4. Get rid of stealths on muraders.

 

Assuming they don't just stop being lazy and have abilities work entirely different in PVP vs PVE there are some issues with your suggestion:

 

1. This would be a huge nerf to Shadow/Sin tanks in PVE. Resilience is one of the best cooldowns in the game. Also would be better to just give everyone such cooldowns. Evens the playing field but ultimately drives TTK up.

 

2. Pretty awesome clutch ability at the end of the raid if you're running into an enrage timer. Maybe increase the cooldown?

 

3. Not sure of the justification on this actually. I'd rather see a buff to charged bolts.

 

4. Agreed. Threat drop should just be a threat drop (or make EVERYONE's threat drop function as an escape tool in PVP).

[Rogoo]

So far I've played Sorc, Operative, Marauder, Juggernaut, Powertech, Mercenary. The others are too low for me to talk about them, but Sorc and Operative DPS are a pain to play, while Marauder, Powertech are ridiculously easy to use. So yeah, I can say F you and your L2P topic, the classes are unbalanced.

 

L2P is VASTLY different than "play other classes".

 

Also, "being easy to use" != unbalanced, but I guess that concept is too hard to grasp for some people.

 

Maybe... just maybe IF you played some e-sports, you would understand that.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rogoo

[Roiz]

Like the title says.

 

Forum is overflooded with balance threads.

 

People generally seem to think that grass is always greener on the otherside.

 

So, IF you want to complain about balance, play more than one class. It will give you A LOT of insight on how to counter said class and it will also give you basic knowledge about balance in the game.

 

Sure, some classes need some minor tweaks here and there (I'm looking at you infilatration / deception Shadows / Sins), but overall it is not as bad as many people seem to think.

 

tl;dr -> If you only play one class and talk about balance - all you do is QQ. Stop it.

 

I played all classes. The is no class balance here obviously, some classes are strong and other are week. The problem not only in damage numbers and survivability but in game mechanics.

Here we go.

 

Sage - class is not competitive in pvp. All spec relies on long cast(self roots), this is not ok for class with light armor and no defencive abilities. Add to that bad energy management and this class has done. Sage could heal and dps at the same time but deu to lack of force it cannot even dps properly. All classes have at least autoattack

with no force cost, but sage doesn't. If sage run out of force all you can do it is 4m lightsaber attack.

 

Vanguard is an opposite to sage. Class is excellent all taacks are ranged and instant you can use them on the move, abuse light of sight,. Descent defencive cooldowns, plenty of utility, heavy armor, amazing burst. Good energy management, if you run out of ammo you can use autoattack which hit hard place fire dot and auto slow target for free no energy use.

 

Let's compare guard with sentinel. Sentinel has way better survivability due to excellent defensive abilities excellent burst, self heal and no dead zone and plenty of team utility. Guard has dead zone4 -10 meters, self heal is crap, burst is bad the class is actually crap.

[Roiz]

I have all of the above at lvl 50.... Murader, Assasin, Operative, Merc, Powertech.

 

The classes need to be balanced badly still. Muraders are far too op. Yes, I agree PTs have amazing burst, but they lack the same survivability that muraders get. Honestly, I think the PTs should be more of an example of what the other DPS classes should be.

 

I would like to see the other DPS classes buffed with maybe minor nerfs to the following:

 

1. Get rid of the full resist sheilds on all classes.

2. Get rid of undying rage or change it to midigate 70% of all incoming dmg.

3. Slight nerf to flame blurst (that way a nerf to PT's doesn't affect mercs).

4. Get rid of stealths on muraders.

 

PT player detected:)

[Helig]

I played all classes. The is no class balance here obviously, some classes are strong and other are week. The problem not only in damage numbers and survivability but in game mechanics.

Here we go.

 

Sage - class is not competitive in pvp. All spec relies on long cast(self roots), this is not ok for class with light armor and no defencive abilities. Add to that bad energy management and this class has done. Sage could heal and dps at the same time but deu to lack of force it cannot even dps properly. All classes have at least autoattack

with no force cost, but sage doesn't. If sage run out of force all you can do it is 4m lightsaber attack.

 

Vanguard is an opposite to sage. Class is excellent all taacks are ranged and instant you can use them on the move, abuse light of sight,. Descent defencive cooldowns, plenty of utility, heavy armor, amazing burst. Good energy management, if you run out of ammo you can use autoattack which hit hard place fire dot and auto slow target for free no energy use.

 

Let's compare guard with sentinel. Sentinel has way better survivability due to excellent defensive abilities excellent burst, self heal and no dead zone and plenty of team utility. Guard has dead zone4 -10 meters, self heal is crap, burst is bad the class is actually crap.

"Playing" the class and learning it are different things. VG has only one decent defensive cooldown. It's a 2-min c\d 25% damage reduction shield. In Assault spec, he can spec into cooldown being lowered when he's taking damage. Cool, sure, but that's the only real thing that he has. "Plenty of utility" is an exaggeration. He has a good ranged stun, slow, an AoE melee stun that doesn't do much good beyond stopping\interrupting, and a melee interrupt. As far as energy management goes - if you get overzealous with HiB-resetting skills, you'll run dry in a matter of seconds.

 

As far as heavy armour is concerned, it's overrated. Heavy armour DR over light is about 15-16%. Noticeable? Sure. But it's not an enormous advantage.

 

My hybrid healer Sage sports a f***-ton of defensive utility. If I have LoS obstacles available, no PT\VG will kill me ever, unless I'm ganged up on, or I'm grossly outgeared. 90% PTs pull me only to have my shield blow up in their face (decent ones use incendiary=>RS, though). I also have an AoE root, I have an excellent slow, I have Sprint, I have a stun. A lot of Sages and Sorcs literally make me cringe by standing in the open, inviting Marauders to charge them and PTs to pulverize them. When they're approached, they panic and blow all of their C\Ds, and then die horribly. You aren't a tank class. You're a slippery arsehole class. You position yourself so that only a limited number of enemies can see you, and your cooldowns allow you to shake off those who engage you. Starting Rateds on that Sage, and I have a very good Guard tank to support me. Holy Sith, it's awesome. Sure, I'm much less mobile than a Scoundrel, but if I don't eff up my positioning, I feel nigh-invincible. Held 2 vs 5, little problems. Didn't die till backup arrived.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Helig

[vsalcedo]

So far I've played Sorc, Operative, Marauder, Juggernaut, Powertech, Mercenary. The others are too low for me to talk about them, but Sorc and Operative DPS are a pain to play, while Marauder, Powertech are ridiculously easy to use. So yeah, I can say F you and your L2P topic, the classes are unbalanced.

 

Yer prob a bad with pyros and sents....If you understand to cc them when they pop cds u win. Of course this is a L2P issue as a group not inividuals this games not a one vs one match.

[laiboch]

Alright.

 

I have:

 

50 Merc

50 Marauder

50 Sorc

50 Ops

 

Merc:

Merc damage is borderline pathetic after the nerf. Its not to say they did not need toned down a bit, but as with everything Bioware failed here and went WAY to far. Increasing heat or a small reduction in damage would have sufficed, but they increased heat, reduced damage and made other changes to the core mechanics of the class that quite literally removed Merc from being competitive DPS period.

 

Marauder:

Marauder damage is solid, but if they had Taunt they would be a better PVP tank than Juggs. They are an amazingly mobile and destructive class and even in the hands of a nub they can do some serious damage. 2 of the 3 builds can drop almost any class faster than they can say OMG L2P!!! and a well geared Marauder with a skilled player is almost unstoppable.

 

Sorc:

After the changes to their healing and their one solid hybread spec they really have been kind of relegated to stand off steady damage instead of a "Glass Cannon". As a healer they are sub par when compered side by side with other healers lacking mobility or survivability. They are an easy target for DPS classes especially Ops and Sins. Madness spec is solid, but lacks any real burst.

 

Ops:

While not as hard hitting as they use to be they are still very capable. Once you get the hang of how they flow its actually a really fun class that can do some really good damage. Has excellent CC and survivability when compared to many other classes. Ops Healers are hands down the best sustained healers in the game. They have mobility, survivability and the ability to turn around and dish out a bit of damage when called for.

 

So now that we have covered that. Merc DPS needs some TLC. As a whole the class is weak and there is no reason to EVER bring a DPS Merc when you can bring a PT instead.

 

Sorc need a bit of love as well in the form of some better defensive cooldowns for healers and a bit of burst or a bit more damage. Not a lot in either case, but they do need some love.

 

Marauders need their Defensive cool downs toned down a hair. Their damage is fine, but when added to their defensive cool downs it makes them a bit to strong.

 

PT's need their damage brought down a bit. Its mind boggling to me that they would nerf Merc DPS specs for doing 500K in a warzone and then turn around and boost PT's to where they do exactly what Merc's were doing before the nerf... The inability of bioware's dev team to actually see its failings is truly amazing.

 

Snipers need the same thing as Marauders. Their damage is fine, but their ability to CC is out of control. The combination of their damage and CC makes them way to strong.

 

So please next time you try and post a L2P thread perhaps YOU should play all of the classes and know what YOU are speaking about before you get on the forum and make a fool out of yourself.

[Daiyukie]

You know, as much as I agree with the OP, I just remembered that I was a terrible Scoundrel when I came back after leveling my Shadow from 10 to 46 in PvP with only brief healing stints on my Scoundrel. I was a pretty boss Shadow at that point, but when I decided to gear up my Scoundrel some more I was struggling even more than I remembered.

 

The reverse is now true when I pop in to my Shadow for brief stints of dicking around in sub-50; I'm a much better Scoundrel than I am a Shadow, but the class knowledge stays. So while it's important to LEARN other classes, PLAYING them regularly is actually detrimental to your performance of your main and I'm sure this is not true of only myself.

[Sookster]

The only class I do not play in this game is sorc/sage, I rolled one twice and deleted them twice, cannot stand the playstyle of that class. Other than that I got a toon of every class all to level 50.

 

The issue remains, there's still imbalance, for example the difference between a dps assassin and dps operative, assassin is far better in every situation over the operative. Same for merc compared to a sniper or PT, come on now.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sookster

[Rogoo]

The issue remains, there's still imbalance, for example the difference between a dps assassin and dps operative, assassin is far better in every situation over the operative. Same for merc compared to a sniper or PT, come on now.

 

Operative and Mercenary are healing classes. And boy they heal GOOD. They OUTHEAL most of the DPS easy (1 vs 1). Their DPS specs are for PvE.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rogoo