"Healers" and "Tanks" in Group Finder - you think you're fooling anyone?

[Ms_Sunlight]

Today I had the following:

 

I was tanking and the "healer" Commando in Rakata / Columi gear's heals were capping out at about 1800, and they almost never went critical; when they did, the heals were about 2400. Specced as a healer, a player in that sort of gear should have been putting out more like 2400+, with regular criticals. (My Scoundrel healer's strongest heals are over 2500, with regular criticals over 5000.) Of course, he blamed me when we wiped, and complained it would cost him 10K to mend his Rakata gear.

 

Later, I was healing Maelstrom Prison HM and kept pulling massive amounts of mobs. I asked the Shadow tank to put guard on me (it's usually not necessary or appropriate to guard the healer but desperate times etc.) to try and correct it, because by then I'd noticed that the tank never had Kinetic Ward up, and I didn't see or hear them use Slow TIme (it has a distinctive booming sound effect). Yes, we had what is known as a DPS in tank stance.

 

My questions are:

 

Do these people honestly think people won't notice?

 

What are the other telltale signs of people playing out of spec?

 

Why don't we ever see someone in tank gear queued as a DPS?

[alifaraaz]

Cause there's almost always enough dps out there

[Nomaad]

Quick fix = Dual spec, some guys cue as a tank/dps or ranged/healer or whaterver to get the faster cue, what's the guy supposed to do, get the cue to pop, run back to fleet, re-spec, run back, make everyone wait?

[RandomXChance]

Quick fix = Dual spec, some guys cue as a tank/dps or ranged/healer or whaterver to get the faster cue, what's the guy supposed to do, get the cue to pop, run back to fleet, re-spec, run back, make everyone wait?

 

 

The answer to that is yes. What a mindless response. If you are going to queue for multiple specs, then spend the 200K for field respec and have at least some gear for both specs. I run a Sith Juggernaught, and I am so sick of wipes due to someone signed up as heal, failing as heal, and then blaming the tank that is in Rakata/Black Hole solid tanking gear.

[Kaonis]

Part of the issue is GF throws people in as a tank/healer despite what they queue as. My juggernaut has that problem where the game decides I'm a tank, when I'm clearly not and have only DPS set. So not all of it is people (though they do exist) a chunk of it is on BW's end.

[Kourage]

You inspected him so I assume he was wearing healer gear at least? I've seen an Arsenal Merc heal HM BP easily. He said he queued for DPS though.

[flyersfan]

I tank as a Tactics Vanguard for Hard Modes and no one has ever said anything. There are quite a few ways to tell that I'm not a Shield Specialist like never using Storm, using Gut, and using Fire Pulse.

 

Yes, I do think that I'm fooling everyone. However, we get the job done and I get my Black Hole commendations.

 

Also, I always Guard the healer. If the fecal matter were to hit the fan, then I'd rather he or she be alive than the damage dealers. No one else should be taking non-AoE damage anyway.

Edited July 27, 2012 by flyersfan

[MasterKayote]

I tank as a Tactics Vanguard for Hard Modes and no one has ever said anything. There are quite a few ways to tell that I'm not a Shield Specialist like never using Storm, using Gut, and using Fire Pulse.

 

Yes, I do think that I'm fooling everyone. However, we get the job done and I get my Black Hole commendations.

 

Also, I always Guard the healer. If the fecal matter were to hit the fan, then I'd rather he or she be alive than the damage dealers. No one else should be taking non-AoE damage anyway.

 

Yup, specially now with the aggro buffs it should be easy. Well maybe not as an Assassin/Shadow since they need to be specc'ed into it to get a decent shield and AoE ability. You'll have to be better geared and at least have a shield but its doable with a good team. Not that id even bother but even when im on my Tank, all HMs seem way too easy. I usually see healers DPS quite a bit out of boredom sometimes.

 

Then they say a newbie 50 has to fully equip himself in daily mods ... yeah right.

[MasterFeign]

Yeah... Did a story mode KP the other night and our other "tank" was not holding aggro at all, and instead killing our merc. We only won because the dps was big enough what he later left anyway, presumably because he was fed up of wipes that he caused (and probably blamed others for).

[flyersfan]

Yup, specially now with the aggro buffs it should be easy. Well maybe not as an Assassin/Shadow since they need to be specc'ed into it to get a decent shield and AoE ability. You'll have to be better geared and at least have a shield but its doable with a good team. Not that id even bother but even when im on my Tank, all HMs seem way too easy. I usually see healers DPS quite a bit out of boredom sometimes.

 

Then they say a newbie 50 has to fully equip himself in daily mods ... yeah right.

 

I've always had a shield. My Vanguard has always used Ion Cell as well. It's great for PvP, which is why I've done that.

 

I've got all the taunts and more threat generation, so it's pretty easy.

 

As a Shadow, it'd be nearly impossible. A shield and Kinetic Ward is so vital to the Shadow tank. It's much easier as a Vanguard.

 

I'm making a Vigilance Guardian, but I don't think she'll be able to tank like my Vanguard can. Troopers are just too awesome, I suppose.

[gamerpaul]

Quick fix = Dual spec, some guys cue as a tank/dps or ranged/healer or whaterver to get the faster cue, what's the guy supposed to do, get the cue to pop, run back to fleet, re-spec, run back, make everyone wait?

 

I have 3 sets of gear on me at all times and field respec so I'm ready for any situation.

[EternalChild]

Completed Foundry yesterday with a DPS Assassin that queued as a tank. He didn't even switch to tanking stance. Well, my healer had more work than usual, but fights went MUCH faster. I actually liked it. So dear DPS don't be shy, you are always welcome as tanks in my groups. Of course, if you know how to tank

 

I run a Sith Juggernaught, and I am so sick of wipes due to someone signed up as heal, failing as heal, and then blaming the tank that is in Rakata/Black Hole solid tanking gear.

How interesting, you think if you have certain gear you are always right? If you died and haven't used your panic buttons (Saber Ward, Invincible, Endure Pain, Relic) and your CC skills (especially Intimidating Roar), then the fault is yours, not healer's.

Edited July 27, 2012 by EternalChild

[Ms_Sunlight]

Part of the issue is GF throws people in as a tank/healer despite what they queue as. My juggernaut has that problem where the game decides I'm a tank, when I'm clearly not and have only DPS set. So not all of it is people (though they do exist) a chunk of it is on BW's end.

 

Yeah, I've had that with my healer, but as soon as I travelled to the FP and noticed I had a little red DPS icon on my portrait, I told the group and asked them what they wanted to do. They decided to go ahead, even though I wouldn't be able to put out as much damage. I just believe in honesty being the best policy and all.

[Coturnix]

Yeah, I've had that with my healer, but as soon as I travelled to the FP and noticed I had a little red DPS icon on my portrait, I told the group and asked them what they wanted to do. They decided to go ahead, even though I wouldn't be able to put out as much damage. I just believe in honesty being the best policy and all.

Yeah happend to me to. I queued as a tank grouped with my healer. We end up with 2 more full speced healers, my and one more marked as DPS.

[DarthTHC]

How interesting, you think if you have certain gear you are always right? If you died and haven't used your panic buttons (Saber Ward, Invincible, Endure Pain, Relic) and your CC skills (especially Intimidating Roar), then the fault is yours, not healer's.

 

It's probably safe to assume that a tank geared with proper tanking attributes in Rakata and Black Hole gear knows how to tank.

 

If it was Tionese or all Black Hole, maybe not so safe an assumption. But getting Rakata requires you to know what you're doing in a fight and having the right tanking attributes on the gear (i.e. right Augments) means you've done your research.

Edited July 27, 2012 by DarthTHC

[ScrabblePants]

You see the role you are assigned before you accept the group, if it has given you the wrong role.....decline it maybe?

[DarthTHC]

You see the role you are assigned before you accept the group, if it has given you the wrong role.....decline it maybe?

 

Or trust that the LFG tool is buggy (see the known issues list - it is!) and take the group and figure out who really queued for the role mistakenly assigned to you.

[Journeyer]

I've tanked lost island with a pug healer in PvP DPS gear. Guy was critting 900 on his heals.

 

To some extent, I'm not sure whether it's the player or the game's fault. I noticed, for example, that the first time I opened the finder, it had me set up as DPS and Tank. If I hadn't changed the options, people would be talking about me as that guy who's pugging damage role with 500 dps

 

I don't know if the matching system takes into account things like "this dps would be an awful heals but these other guys are in Campaign gear so it's ok" or if it assumes all things are a little too equal~

[MasterKayote]

I've always had a shield. My Vanguard has always used Ion Cell as well. It's great for PvP, which is why I've done that.

 

I've got all the taunts and more threat generation, so it's pretty easy.

 

As a Shadow, it'd be nearly impossible. A shield and Kinetic Ward is so vital to the Shadow tank. It's much easier as a Vanguard.

 

I'm making a Vigilance Guardian, but I don't think she'll be able to tank like my Vanguard can. Troopers are just too awesome, I suppose.

 

Yup, id say Vanguards/Powertechs have it easier than others to tank off-spec. They mostly just get added perks in there talents that increase their passive defenses (shield, absorb, armor) all of which can be compensated for with better gear. All their cooldowns come with the class (except for Smoke Grenade, which hasnt been incredibly useful so far on my Vanguard) and have more than enough AoE abilities to hold big groups.

Edited July 27, 2012 by MasterKayote

[ScrabblePants]

Or trust that the LFG tool is buggy (see the known issues list - it is!) and take the group and figure out who really queued for the role mistakenly assigned to you.

 

oh no, i 100% agree it is bugged to hell, we have to give our dps the group lead or he gets assigned healer.

The trouble with accepting and sorting it out inside is that you could end up with 4xdps in one group, it doesn't just mix up the assigned roles in a normal group build, it mixes up the roles before building the group, if you see what i mean.

[uziforyou]

Part of the issue is GF throws people in as a tank/healer despite what they queue as. My juggernaut has that problem where the game decides I'm a tank, when I'm clearly not and have only DPS set. So not all of it is people (though they do exist) a chunk of it is on BW's end.

 

This.

 

And I'm not so sure it doesn't happen a lot more than we hear about in the forums. Some people would rather not requeue when they find out they've been thrust into the wrong role.

[pocketthesaurus]

You inspected him so I assume he was wearing healer gear at least? I've seen an Arsenal Merc heal HM BP easily. He said he queued for DPS though.

Imperfect system. And it's not just this game. That OTHER popular game with the random finder used to stick me in a group as damage even when I only queued as heals. It was weird.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Yup, specially now with the aggro buffs it should be easy. Well maybe not as an Assassin/Shadow since they need to be specc'ed into it to get a decent shield and AoE ability. You'll have to be better geared and at least have a shield but its doable with a good team. Not that id even bother but even when im on my Tank, all HMs seem way too easy. I usually see healers DPS quite a bit out of boredom sometimes.

 

Then they say a newbie 50 has to fully equip himself in daily mods ... yeah right.

 

A Shadow out of tank spec without tank gear will die very quickly - in seconds - even if slightly overgeared for the content. I've seen it happen. Yes, I've seen a Shadow DPS try to tank KUS in DPS gear and with a focus equipped. Rakghoul pile on. Funny as hell.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Imperfect system. And it's not just this game. That OTHER popular game with the random finder used to stick me in a group as damage even when I only queued as heals. It was weird.

 

I'm not experienced enough to always tell if a class I don't play is in the right gear, but I do look at things like tech power and critical chance, that's quite usueful especially when you get people in orange gear with a mish-mash of mods in it. I'm not sure it would be easy to implement a gear check in Group Finder, especially since there's so much customisation possible. (Note i said "possible"; it's not always wise )

Edited July 27, 2012 by Ms_Sunlight

[Fardarter]

This is BW's failure not the players. It is a poorly implemented system. multispec and a multiserver queue for pvp and pve should have been in the game at launch. I know other games added them later but when swtor was released they were a feature players expected. SWTOR failed to see this. Actually they failed to LISTEN to the beta testers who were telling them for months before the game came out. Ignoring MMO players, regardless of how annoying they are is never good for the long term success of your game.