Tone down Powertech pyrotech/vanguard assault

[DarthRavillen]

Tank stance with assault spec got heavily nerfed and is no longer viable. Tank stance with tactics is one of the best tank set ups and still does solid dps sustain but this is not the set up we are complaining about in this thread.

 

This thread is about assault spec going for full dps and getting some of the most consistent best burst and pretty much be the dominant dps in rated wz's

 

Also yeah vanguard was advertised as the ranged tank but as it has no means of keeping anything at range and especially in tank spec stockstrike(melee range) is pretty much your best attack you pretty much are just a melee tank like anyone else, the only aspect of Vanguard that really supports ranged tanking is the aoe detaunt not being based around you but rather your target.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but I'm just trying to point out possible issues that will come up when a nerf happens. I play a Vanguard on the side and a Jugg. The i do agree the burst is much better than a True DPS class at times. But part of this you can do hella good burst while be hard to kill. You can also tell when a Vanguard, or any of those classes when they are not running the tank stance, cuz they die real easy. I would hate to see them "nerf" the class then it become useless, like how the population died for Operatives when they did that nerf on them, because they can no longer do large amounts of burst damage real quick. The only ones you still see are the ones that love the class or are really good with that class. It just my opinion that I think that if you're going to play a DPS type class you shouldn't have the ability to tank with it. Besides Vanguards/PT have been OP since beta, just no one realized it until now.

 

But if that is what needs to happen then that is what will happen.

[RikHar]

I'm quite annoyed how everyone thinks this game should be EXACTLY like all other MMOs(namely WoW) and that it shouldn't be unique in any way shape or form because that's "overpowered". I apologize that you're not skilled enough to kill powertechs/vanguards(I don't even play one and I have no problem with them whatsoever).

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

These guys think because they're not skilled enough to take out a certain class that it means that class is "overpowered." They think they're so good that no class should be able to beat them and any class that does is overpowered and should be "toned down."

 

Incredible, isn't it?

 

As I said, same usual suspects with the same old whine and dine. Some things never change. Some people never change.

[Deewe]

Keep moving folks!

 

Nothing new here, just the same ************, whining and moaning from the same usual suspects who have no clue as to how to deal with the class in question.

 

Same ol' same ol'.

Be my guest, for example take a gunnery commando and win against half skilled VG with similar gear.

 

Posts a vid and then you speak.

[RikHar]

Be my guest, for example take a gunnery commando and win against half skilled VG with similar gear.

 

Posts a vid and then you speak.

 

 

As I previously stated, just 'cause you can't beat a certain class doesn't mean they need to be "toned down" or "nerfed."

 

Learn to play against that class. Learn the ins and outs of said class. if more people did this, there would be a lot less crying about classes being overpowered.

 

Cry no more!

[Midden]

Please don't nerf, i want to roll one.

[snaplemouton]

As I previously stated, just 'cause you can't beat a certain class doesn't mean they need to be "toned down" or "nerfed."

 

Learn to play against that class. Learn the ins and outs of said class. if more people did this, there would be a lot less crying about classes being overpowered.

 

Cry no more!

All I can see from post like you is non constructive posts that basically is the same as a QQ post.

 

How about you explain why Assault/pyrotech for vanguard/powertech doesn't need to be toned down?

 

The OP made a real good post that prove assault/pyro to be doing way better then other classes in ranked situation.

It's not a L2P issue, it's not crying about it. People are simply asking for the game to be balanced around skills and efforts.

Of course mostly everyone here can beat an assault/pyro in 1v1. But this game is a team game. And an assault/pyro overperform in group situation.

Edited July 31, 2012 by snaplemouton

[Funick]

Exactly.

 

These guys think because they're not skilled enough to take out a certain class that it means that class is "overpowered." They think they're so good that no class should be able to beat them and any class that does is overpowered and should be "toned down."

 

Incredible, isn't it?

 

As I said, same usual suspects with the same old whine and dine. Some things never change. Some people never change.

 

so if I expect my class to be god why am I pushing for it to be nerfed, I think sentinel should also have it's defensive cool downs toned down but that's for another thread.

[Eljayz]

As I previously stated, just 'cause you can't beat a certain class doesn't mean they need to be "toned down" or "nerfed."

 

Learn to play against that class. Learn the ins and outs of said class. if more people did this, there would be a lot less crying about classes being overpowered.

 

Cry no more!

 

I've seen the most garbage guardian (couldn't place awes to save his life, didn't know what a guardian leap was) play a vanguard and do well. The class is advertised as no skill required.

[HotAtom]

Hello everyone

 

There are things that make me laugh, and laugh out loud .. there was someone here said that you should learn how to play with your player before you say that this or that one are OP .... too bad they have not said the same when by the time before Operatives\Scoundrels have been nerfed, i should say the same to those "bad excuses for the moment" type of players...well...pass by...

 

and im agreed with someone who says so that its not the class who is OP but the player behind the class who plays it who make´s it OP or not...there are arguments agains the facts we cant deny...we must look to the technical issues and just not for the statistics...and if we LOOK, i repeat..LOOK with very open eyes to the skill trees of a Operative\Scoundrel relatively to Bounty hunters --> Pyrotech, we see REAL big differences here.

 

Just a few exemple i expose here, we could be talk here for days about it, but i put this to everyones criterium

 

Ive made an inspection on their skill trees and somethin like this is unbalanced...if a scoundrel using flechette round with 30% armor penetration, and not using anymore those damage bonus against bleeding

targets, how this guys can use intimidation (increases damage done by all fire effects by 2%) in a 3 perk system (6% total); prototype burn enhancers (increase the critical of fire attacks by 3%) in a 2 perk system (6% total), (and scoundrels\operatives tech critical is just 3% in a total 1% perk system..:S....); and this --> Puncture with superheated rail who ignores 35% target armor!!!???...damn...and with this too --> rain of fire (3% additional damage to burning targets) in a 3 perk system (9% total more)...(YEAH!!!..they remove this to Scoundrels\Operatives for those who have amnesia....), and put in them sometin like energy bonus time recovering...for god sake..no comments....and it´s not over....-->burnout (more critical and damage here -->1% crit and 10% damage to targets below 30% hp) in a 3 perk system so (3% more crit and 30% damage)...oh..not forgeting that Scoundrels\Operatives use medium armor while Powertechs use Heavy

 

lol...that´s why they simply using this advantages and in nowadays WZ atmosphere, their rotation is sometin like "..oh..i stun this guy...flame on him..rail shot..flame again....ohh..dont run pal...pull him over here...and...flame again...and with luck i have 3 crits and your dead!!..woow...i´m awesome!!!

 

ohh..other thing....Scoundrels\Operative shileds on againts the burst attack of a pyro, is useless..their damage is elemental...ive tested and seen that and the shileds are crap vs that type of damage

 

..so...they are not OP..no ofc....

 

cheers

[Eljayz]

Hello everyone

lol...that´s why they simply using this advantages and in nowadays WZ atmosphere, their rotation is sometin like "..oh..i stun this guy...flame on him..rail shot..flame again....ohh..dont run pal...pull him over here...and...flame again...and with luck i have 3 crits and your dead!!..woow...i´m awesome!!!

 

ohh..other thing....Scoundrels\Operative shileds on againts the burst attack of a pyro, is useless..their damage is elemental...ive tested and seen that and the shileds are crap vs that type of damage

 

..so...they are not OP..no ofc....

 

cheers

 

If by shields you meant shields/armor your right. The dots of PT/VGs are elemental bypassing armor + 90% armor pen in HiB.

[ProKsnNwk]

/signed

 

Nightmare Lands, is right now mostly populated by people who rolls the Powertech and Marauders just to be OP.

and you can even face a group of 3 Powertechs and 3 Maras and then 2 random players, and you either play it to end, and lose the wz or just quit when you see the group up.

Cause Marauders and Powertechs are just so OP, have so many abilites, that even if there are 2 healers healing you, 2 of them outdps that healing.

[Eljayz]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/EagleShot/vanguardcontroller.jpg

 

Now its clear, Nintendo is credited for the inception of the vanguard/powertech. An idea that manifested 20+ years ago but only materialized recently.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Eljayz

[mavsynchroid]

Disagree. Vanguards are fine the way they are. Please don't try to have a class nerfed because you can't play your class well enough to beat them.

[Eljayz]

Disagree. Vanguards are fine the way they are. Please don't try to have a class nerfed because you can't play your class well enough to beat them.

 

Disagree. Any class that can win 1v1 fights without cool downs and use minimal abilities is broken.

 

1v1 with cool downs no one should ever loose to a vanguard. 1v1 without cool downs vanguard/power techs should always win.

 

Maybe next time learn to read the 7 pages of points people have posted before making ignorant remarks.

 

Just saying.

[snaplemouton]

Disagree. Vanguards are fine the way they are. Please don't try to have a class nerfed because you can't play your class well enough to beat them.

 

Anyone can beat a freakin Pyro in 1 on 1. Because 99% of them are terrible.

This thread is about putting assault/pyro in line with other classes for ranked warzones in order to make them equally usefull then other classes rather then simply OP.

 

You shouldn't be forced to bring in an assault/pyro in order to have a chance to win. And even less being forced to bring 2 or 3 assault/pyro in order to be competitive with other teams.

There is a reason why DPS board is mostly topped by assault/pyros. It's not because the players playing it are good. It's because the class can output far more then other DPS classes.

Gunslinger only purpose is to DPS. No heals, no tanking. Only pure DPS. And it's impossible for any gunslinger to outDPS an equally geared/skilled assault/pyro. Even if you get lucky on crits and the assault/pyro doesn't

 

This is why it needs to change.

Edited August 3, 2012 by snaplemouton

[Deewe]

Disagree. Vanguards are fine the way they are. Please don't try to have a class nerfed because you can't play your class well enough to beat them.

Maybe they are fine, then other classes should be brought up to VG then.

 

Because they don't feel like a fair match against any class.

[Eljayz]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=522364

 

word?

[Xenotoxic]

Nice post. Now, make one for snipers/slingers and marauders/sentinels OR make a new post asking to buff everything else up to their level.

 

edit: inb4 mad snipers and marauders.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Xenotoxic

[Eljayz]

Nice post. Now, make one for snipers/slingers and marauders/sentinels OR make a new post asking to buff everything else up to their level.

 

edit: inb4 mad snipers and marauders.

 

I have a few comments about snipers/GS and mara/sents.

 

Those two classes have only one purpose: to DPS. All three specs are used only for DPS and really the only pure dps class in the game. Mara/sents have ridiculous defensive cool-downs while they have pretty solid offensive abilities. Between pacify (accuracy debuff), rebuke (damage taken reduction), saber-ward(50% parry and 25% damage reduction in tech/force), vanish, awe (6 sec aoe stun, breaks on damage) and force stasis (3 sec channeled stun) they have perhaps one of the best arsenals of cooldowns in the games matched by no other class. Not to mention that 1v1 sents/Maras are probably the hardest class to kill 1v1, esp if they are watchmen. Unlike other classes most of their cool downs don't require any speccing into.

 

Gunslinger: Defensively they have pretty solid cooldowns, hunker down (CC immunity for 20 seconds?) Static barrier damage taken reduction 20% AOE for entire group. Self bubble (Something screen absorbs decent damage) Aoe knock-back with root, ranged root, Flash bang 8 second stun, and a melee 4 second stun. But if you look at the tree, the burst is in sharpshooter while the damage and dots come heavily in saboteur and dirty fighting. Sharpshooter has perhaps the best setup burst in the game. If everything crits, a sabatage charge -> 1.5 sec aimshot proc -> trickshot -> quickdraw is 17,000 damage approximately in a matter of 4.5 seconds. (a sabatage charge(3500) -> 1.5 sec aimshot proc(4500) -> trickshot(4500) -> quickdraw(4500)).

 

But in arguments against powertech/vangards these classes dps are a) avoidable 90% of their hardest hitting abilities are white damage, b)burst is setup and easily recognizable and c) easily prone to kiting/line of sight. Gunslingers for sharpshooter have to be sitting still and hard-casting all of their abilities while a mara/sent has to be in melee range, easily prone to knockbacks, snares and roots and are easy to kite. vanguard/Powertechs can use their hardest hitting ability from range, never have to sit still for a SINGLE ability, never have to cast and can pull their targets to them and 2.5 sec stun and still not fill the opponents resolve.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Eljayz

[Pistols]

Disagree. Any class that can win 1v1 fights without cool downs and use minimal abilities is broken.

 

1v1 with cool downs no one should ever loose to a vanguard. 1v1 without cool downs vanguard/power techs should always win.

 

Maybe next time learn to read the 7 pages of points people have posted before making ignorant remarks.

 

Just saying.

 

Maybe you shld learn to play, just saying.

[Pistols]

you cannot be a tank AND have the highest burst in the game.

 

This is why your arguement is bad, because you don't even understand the class at all.

 

The class has a Tank SPEC, it is NOT a Tank class, and the Tank SPEC does NOT have the highest burst in the game by far.

 

This is why the game has terrible balancing issues, due to people who don't even know what they're talking about.

 

Simply...amazing..

Edited August 28, 2012 by Pistols

[dipstik]

how do people not realize that posts like these are what have ruined 1/2 the classes already.

 

 

I am still waiting of an unnerf of the sage/sorc healers.

[Pistols]

how do people not realize that posts like these are what have ruined 1/2 the classes already.

 

 

I am still waiting of an unnerf of the sage/sorc healers.

 

Because over half the players don't understand how any of the classes even work.

 

It's frightning how uninformed so many are.

[Eljayz]

This is why your arguement is bad, because you don't even understand the class at all.

 

The class has a Tank SPEC, it is NOT a Tank class, and the Tank SPEC does NOT have the highest burst in the game by far.

 

This is why the game has terrible balancing issues, due to people who don't even know what they're talking about.

 

Simply...amazing..

 

Learn to read? Nit pick little out of text comments and think your smarter.

 

From page 1 I made several arguments as to why the class needed some changes and yet you wanna argue about subject that has nothing to do with the argument. Who cares that they are a "tank spec" or what ever stupid point your trying to make. The abilities and mechanics involved with the class specific spec are broken and no one will argue otherwise.

 

Try arguing any other point than they are a tank archetype with dps spec. If that's the only argument you can make then trollers going to troll and prove themselves idiots. If you think I am uniformed then you clearly haven't read the entire post (which I severely doubt you did). But on the infinitesimal chance that you actually comprehended the argument and the only comment you can make is the technicality between class and spec then you are far less intelligent than what anyone should give you credit for.

 

Learn to read, maybe your trolling will become better.

 

Just saying.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Eljayz