a) Developers who don't know the definition of balance. They probably don't even play this game Patch 1.4 is the perfect example. Why buff Focus sents/juggs/mara/guardians? Makes absolutely no sense to me. Focus was a spec that was fine as is. Now it is going to be the NEW FOTM SPEC. Changes to powertechs/vanguards to little too late. Buffs to scoundrels, too little to late after all the nurfs they endured. Sage dps buff? I wouldn't even call it a buff. Healling commando/merc buff, absolutely not necessarily, too much for a class that is one of hardest to take down in a group setting. b) Released a game with no content, story driven mmo is exactly that, story driven mmo with absolutely nothing else. c) Community keeps quitting at an exponential rate. I play this game to have fun with my friends, when they don't wanna stay because there is no competition, population, slow queuepops and staying means having to endure another server merger, why stay? d) Free to play means spammers, gold farmers, a community that was perhaps the best community in all of mmos that will become diluted because bioware didn't know how to develop a game properly. e) Who's idea was it to give recruit gear to new players? atleast champion gear with expertise on every piece may have had a bettter chance against BM and WH. recruit has absoultely NO CHANCE. BRILLIANT IDEA. f) 8 months after launch we have yet to have.... a polished game, combat log, paid server transfers, cross server lfg, warzones, rated warzones, anything else. It took patch 1.2 to bring adjustable uis. Why should i wait any longer for things that should be STANDARD IN ALL MMOs WHEN YOU CAN'T GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. Consumer confidence in bioware is completely diminished to the point its not even worth attempting FREE TO PLAY, cause anyone who's going to attempt this game will realize how bad it is to other games. All I have to say is SWTOR was in development for HOW LONG AGAIN? And spent HOW MUCH MONEY in Development? The exponential decay of subscriptions isn't random, it's a result of a complete failure on your part. This is what's pissed me off the most of about this game. I primarily pvp So let me see what I ended up getting. Ilum, but ilum was taken away so no world pvp. 3 warzones, now 4. My favorite is hutball And i can't queue for what i want to play. I have to sit and wait for the chance that huball is the warzone i play in. Lower pvp population because more people are quiting everyday. Rated queues so selective, can't just log in form a group and queue, somedays we went 3 hours in queue with no pops. So 1.2 introduced warhero gear for pvp and extra warzone. What did 1.3 bring to the table? augment kits. What does 1.4 bring to the table? Pvp weapons? and??? Warzone? That means since 1.2 I've been wearing THE SAME GEAR. 1.5 probably won't come out for another 6 months so what does that mean? That I can COME BACK AND PLAY IN 6 MONTHS AND STILL HAVE THE BEST OPTIMIZED GEAR THIS GAME HAS TO OFFER. No gear progression, no areneas, no season 1, all i get is a story driven mmo.

From my understanding from reading the post about the changes to CC, is that overlapping CC will not fill the resolve as it did in the past. For example: 2 people use 4 second stuns at the same time. 4 second stuns fill the resolve bar 4/5 bars. Essentially stacking them both will automatically fill resolve. That was a very poor system. They're changing it to prevent overlapping stuns that fill resolve. Now here is the question. Difference between stun and incapacitate: Stun means taking damage doesn't break the CC. Incapacitate breaks on damage Stuns: 2second stuns (Ops(ops are 1.5s but fill resolve like 2sec)/assasins/Pts) fill the resolve bar 2/5 so you can stack 2 back to back and still not fill resolve. 3 sec stuns (Juggs/Mara) Not 100% sure but pretty sure it fills 3/5 4 second stuns Fill the resolve bar 4/5, almost all classes except jugg/maras have a STATIC 4 sec stun w/o having to spec or gear for it. Incapacitate: break on damage awes: 6 second Cybertech: 4 seconds Forcelift/whirlwind: 8 seconds mindmaze/traqdart/sap: 8 seconds Flashbang - 8 seconds Merc/commando (can't remember the name, concussive....) - 8 second Tele Sages bubble (3 sec) The way the game is right now you can use two 2 second stuns and still not fill resolve and use a 4 second stun after that for maximum stun time. 8 Second stun Or you can use two 4 second stuns and have the same effect. 2 and 3 second stuns fill resolve as well as 3 and 4 second stuns. But overlapping stuns will yield a lower stun time. Usually a maximum of 4-5 seconds. 5 Seconds of stun usually mean a full resolve time. The exception to this rule is 2 vanguards with 3 second aoe stuns which only full resolve 2 bars. So if someone is running around freely, they should recieve the FULL DURATION stun WITH the full resolve. But this is where it can become broken. a) a 2 second stun overlapped by a 4 second stun, which takes precedence? Which take dominance? 6 seconds of stun should always fill resolve. b)a 2 second stun overlapped with a 4 second stun 1 second after the 2 second stun was activated. If the 4 second stun takes precidence, does the resolve add like a 5 second stun and fill resolve? I'd like to see the existing Stun take precedence while the 2nd stun is rendered useless. But this next scenario would work better: In the case of a weaker stun followed by a stronger stun, I'd like to see something like this: The stronger stun takes precedence but only fills the resolve of the difference between the stuns. For example: An existing 2 second stun overlapped by a 4 second stun should only fill 2 bars. If a player is only stunned for 1 out of the 2 seconds before the 4 second stun was applied, then the 4 second stun should only add 3 seconds from that point and add the difference between the resolve bars, which is 2/5 for the total of 4 seconds as 2/5 bars is already in play with the preceding 2 second stun. Total stun time 4 seconds, total resolve 4/5. There should also be a diminishing return on how much resolve is filled during a duration of a stun. The D/R should be EXTREMELY HIGH at the beginning of a stun, but SIGNIFICANTLY lower towards the end or at the end of a stun duration. If two people overlap stuns at the same time, the added resolve should be none or next to nothing. And as the stun duration continues, decrease the DR. Also what are your plans on people overlapping incapacitates with stuns? like a flash bang and a stun simultaneously?

Learn to read? Nit pick little out of text comments and think your smarter. From page 1 I made several arguments as to why the class needed some changes and yet you wanna argue about subject that has nothing to do with the argument. Who cares that they are a "tank spec" or what ever stupid point your trying to make. The abilities and mechanics involved with the class specific spec are broken and no one will argue otherwise. Try arguing any other point than they are a tank archetype with dps spec. If that's the only argument you can make then trollers going to troll and prove themselves idiots. If you think I am uniformed then you clearly haven't read the entire post (which I severely doubt you did). But on the infinitesimal chance that you actually comprehended the argument and the only comment you can make is the technicality between class and spec then you are far less intelligent than what anyone should give you credit for. Learn to read, maybe your trolling will become better. Just saying.

I have a few comments about snipers/GS and mara/sents. Those two classes have only one purpose: to DPS. All three specs are used only for DPS and really the only pure dps class in the game. Mara/sents have ridiculous defensive cool-downs while they have pretty solid offensive abilities. Between pacify (accuracy debuff), rebuke (damage taken reduction), saber-ward(50% parry and 25% damage reduction in tech/force), vanish, awe (6 sec aoe stun, breaks on damage) and force stasis (3 sec channeled stun) they have perhaps one of the best arsenals of cooldowns in the games matched by no other class. Not to mention that 1v1 sents/Maras are probably the hardest class to kill 1v1, esp if they are watchmen. Unlike other classes most of their cool downs don't require any speccing into. Gunslinger: Defensively they have pretty solid cooldowns, hunker down (CC immunity for 20 seconds?) Static barrier damage taken reduction 20% AOE for entire group. Self bubble (Something screen absorbs decent damage) Aoe knock-back with root, ranged root, Flash bang 8 second stun, and a melee 4 second stun. But if you look at the tree, the burst is in sharpshooter while the damage and dots come heavily in saboteur and dirty fighting. Sharpshooter has perhaps the best setup burst in the game. If everything crits, a sabatage charge -> 1.5 sec aimshot proc -> trickshot -> quickdraw is 17,000 damage approximately in a matter of 4.5 seconds. (a sabatage charge(3500) -> 1.5 sec aimshot proc(4500) -> trickshot(4500) -> quickdraw(4500)). But in arguments against powertech/vangards these classes dps are a) avoidable 90% of their hardest hitting abilities are white damage, b)burst is setup and easily recognizable and c) easily prone to kiting/line of sight. Gunslingers for sharpshooter have to be sitting still and hard-casting all of their abilities while a mara/sent has to be in melee range, easily prone to knockbacks, snares and roots and are easy to kite. vanguard/Powertechs can use their hardest hitting ability from range, never have to sit still for a SINGLE ability, never have to cast and can pull their targets to them and 2.5 sec stun and still not fill the opponents resolve.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=522364 word?

Sw:tor has by far been the most disappointing game next to warhammer. A game that lacked content from the very beginning is now struggling to keep it's remaining subscribers with GW2 around the corner. For a new game to be successful you need the following: a) Strong beta turnout (Decent) b) A strong launch (this game had the best launch in mmo history) c) Provide critical updates within the first few months to keep players involved. (this is what sw:tor developers failed to do) THe PvPers of this game left when ilum turned into a disaster as the population imbalance favored the zerging faction. The PvErs of this game mostly left after the ridiculously easy PvE content and the pathetic nurfs that they had to endure due to balancing for PvP. Its ok, you can release your "content updates" as 9 months into the game this game is still lacking: a) Combat log b) Paid Character transfers c) Sustainable population numbers for PvP (ranked and unranked) d) Developers who have any clue on how to keep their subscriber base happy. c) A terrible gaming engine with obvious flaws including bugs from release still not resolved. Bioware used to be a great company, I always looked foward to to games released by bioware. Dragon Age I was magnificent. And then Bioware got bought out by EA games and look at the quality of games since. Dragon age II was the biggest disappointment as much of the games released recently by bioware. Your hard work will mean nothing as there will be other companies who will do everything you do but better. Take Bethesda Game Studios for an example. Always releasing critically acclaimed games, (much like blizzard did back in the day) and in the process of releasing an MMO with tri-faction game-play (brings nostalgia just thinking about it). I should have simply known how bad this game would have been by how poor DA:II was. Elder scrolls MMO will be the next game to play, after skyrim who wouldn't want to atleast test that game out?. How many subscriptions will SW:tor have left when that game gets released. How many more MMOs releases will swtor survive?

Disagree. Any class that can win 1v1 fights without cool downs and use minimal abilities is broken. 1v1 with cool downs no one should ever loose to a vanguard. 1v1 without cool downs vanguard/power techs should always win. Maybe next time learn to read the 7 pages of points people have posted before making ignorant remarks. Just saying.

Now its clear, Nintendo is credited for the inception of the vanguard/powertech. An idea that manifested 20+ years ago but only materialized recently.

If by shields you meant shields/armor your right. The dots of PT/VGs are elemental bypassing armor + 90% armor pen in HiB.

I've seen the most garbage guardian (couldn't place awes to save his life, didn't know what a guardian leap was) play a vanguard and do well. The class is advertised as no skill required.

I play a vengeance Jugg, Concealment operative(which i actually played heals until they nurfed it now i play dps because no one else plays it dps) and a Gunslinger. I'm usually the recruiter for my guild (we excusively pvp, pve is boring, repetitive and not worth attempting in this game) and about 95% of the players looking for guilds are people who can't find a guild or rateds group because they're not vanguards/powertechs. I get a million tells from infiltration/balance shadows, dps scoundrels, dps sages, dps commandos and dps tanks non vanguards who have all long since quit because they cannot be role players in a group because no one wants them. Sad thing is if they were all vanguards/powertechs they'd all be included in a ranked group with no hesitations. Plus they'd all make great vanguards/powertechs if they were half decent players because all those classes require far more skill to play than a 3 button pyrotech/assault smashing class.

Who knows, maybe they'll make some other abilities in assault better. Atleast then you can keep more than 3 keybinds in pve.

my guild mates say it all the time. They'd rather play tactics.

So far in this game they have toned down the damage of almost all the classes since launch. The surge revamp hurt scoundrels/operatives and assassins/shadows the most. Sages/sorcs had an insane single target burst and aoe hybrid spec, that got nurf. Can't begin to count how many dps nurfs scoundrels/operatives received. Commando/Merc tracer/gravround specs got nurfed. Sages Healing and resource management got nurfed. All the DPS geared tank specced classes got nurfed, vanguards/guardians got a damage nurf while shadows got an armor/heal nurf. The cycle continues and vanguards/powertech assault/pyrotech should be next.

Further examination of other classes show that almost every class has about 15 second CDs that prevent them from continually bursting the way vanguard/powertechs can. Sents/Mara Combat: 100% armor pen is on a 15 second CD, but can only use their entire burst rotation with masterstirke (25 second CD?) Watchmen: Takes about 4 global cooldowns to apply all your dots, but their burst is mostly with zen which requires 30 stacks of centering, which takes a bit to generate or use valorous call to generate 30 on a 3 minute cool down. Focus: 12 seconds between burst rotations, 15 if using guardian set bonus. Guardian/Jugg: Vigilance Usually takes 10-15 seconds for all CDs to reset Focus: Same as above: 12 seconds between burst rotations, 15 if maximizing guardian set bonus. Shadows: Infiltration: Clairvoyance strike is the main ability here with no cooldown but most of the damage is from procs and accumulation of procs: Infiltration tactics 10 seconds and force breach stacks(exit stragegy) x 5 which can take up to 10 Global cooldowns to accumulate. Balance: Force in Balance is your hardest hitting ability on 15 sec CD. Everything else is sustain Sages: Balance same as above. Telekinetics: 9 seconds turbulence(2 sec cast) auto crit. Telekinetic wave can be refreshed by disturbance but disturbance is cast so easily interrupt-able. Scoundrel: Scrapper: Stealth opener has a 7 second CD, backblast 12, sabotage charge 30 sec CD, blaster whip 15 seconds, sucker punch requires upperhand which can only be accumulated from blasterwhip or stealth opener shoot first. Dirtyfighting, have to apply dots (one instant and one 12 sec CD), hermorage shot (15 sec CD) and wounding shot (requires upperhand) Gunslinger: Sharpshooter: Speedshot 15 sec(can be reset once every 45 secs), aimshot 15 sec, sabotage charge (30 sec) trickshot 6 seconds, (autocrit charged burst 1 minute) Sabateur, revolves around sabotage charge (30 sec), shock charge 18 sec (resets if target dies or cleansed) speedshot 15 sec cd and incendiary grenade (16 sec cd). Dirtyfighting: same as above except wounding shot is now channeled and has a 9 sec cd. Commando: Gunnery: Gravround(no cd), Demo round 15 sec(maximum damage requires 3 grav round debuffs) High impact bolt 15 sec CD, maximum damage requires use of 5 grav rounds. Assault: For this class assault spec is very balanced, decent damage decent survability plus can hybrid heals. Vanguards: Sticky grenade(15 s), gut(no cd), fire pulse(15 s), shockstrike(9 s), ion pulse x 5(no cd), pulse cannon (12 s). Throw High impact bolt in anywhere when you get the proc (15 s). Assault: (any grenade of choices 15s), incendiary round, HiB (15 sec) Shockstrike or Ion pulse for HiB reset proc, then HiB. Rinse and repeat This was edited into the OP.