Soooo.. GW2 is coming and you do nothing to keep the PvP-Players here?

[anasa]

Why did this thread devolve into SWtoR vs GW2? It's crystal clear that PvP in this game is lacking in all aspects.

 

The point of the original post is: Why isn't Bioware doing anything to keep the PvP population from growing thinner when GW2 is superior in so many aspects when it comes to PvP.

Personally I've been playing SWtoR since the time when I had to open champion bags to get my gear, up to farming wz comms with a 1/3 ratio so I can get my full Warhero. Then proceed to play 8v8 for a 3 days until it died off completely since there's ZERO incentive to play ranked.

 

Can I even post in this account? I don't have an active sub.

[Katsuragisama]

Why so much misinformation, play it, find out facts, then post, or stay out of the debate

 

I think it might be easier to just stick your fingers in your ears and yell, "It's F2P so it must be P2W!". I did a quick Google search and came across this, Influence. It seems you can get buffs for WvW (under the Art of War section), you get Influence depending on how active your guild is. Or you can buy influence for coin (in-game money, not real life money $). Gotta admit thats pretty interesting, glad that made me wonder and look into it now.

 

Why did this thread devolve into SWtoR vs GW2? It's crystal clear that PvP in this game is lacking in all aspects.

 

The point of the original post is: Why isn't Bioware doing anything to keep the PvP population from growing thinner when GW2 is superior in so many aspects when it comes to PvP.

Personally I've been playing SWtoR since the time when I had to open champion bags to get my gear, up to farming wz comms with a 1/3 ratio so I can get my full Warhero. Then proceed to play 8v8 for a 3 days until it died off completely since there's ZERO incentive to play ranked.

 

Can I even post in this account? I don't have an active sub.

 

Perhaps they've already just given up? Whether its from a friend, or whats left of your guild for that matter, most of us have already heard about GW2. I looked into while my gaming PC was down. I figured I might as well give it a shot. I was sad to tell the remaining people in the guild that I would be trying out GW2, not sure if I would return. Only to have most of the ones online at the time, tell me that they tried GW2 during the BWE3, and would be going to GW2 as well.

 

Ah yes... I remember those days of grinding WZ to buy champion bags in hopes to get a piece. I think I actually got to like 6/16 slots before they made you just buy Champion tokens or whatever the next system. Though I know many people werent as lucky as me. And during all of that they still had that bug at the time where if the first person into the WZ left, you didnt get credit for the win. Was so glad when they finally fixed that.

 

Nonsense. I've said consistently that I like it. Just because some have compared it to suffering, doesn't mean all do or have. I like playing a whole bunch of warzones and getting a shiny new piece of gear at the end. It adds a goal, a carrot on a stick - something that has been overwhelmingly evidenced to be important in this kind of game, and something which will be lacking in GW2 and is going to lead to low retention rates in GW2. People will PvP for a bit, get bored of just playing the maps for the sake of playing them, and move on to some other fresher game.

 

I skimmed through most of that post, but I will hit on this. You can still get something shiny out of it. Something new, something that makes you stand out amongst the crowd. They even have Rank 1 - 11 Glory Vendor. So theres still a carrot on a stick. It's just not gonna give you +20 stat and give you uber damage. I want a shiny, but I dont need it to give me an advantage over anyone else, other than the fact by the time I obtain the new shiny, I will have learned more about the game.

 

Not only that but the mixture of skills/utilities in the game, will add some depth of how people play. And I'm more interested in someone elses tactics and countering them, than I am for some shiny. It's the main reason I've kept doing PVP in this game. It's also what lead me to attack certain people in PvP in this game. Because I felt they were pretty damn good, so I wanted to catch them in a 1 vs 1 (when we were already winning ofcourse, ) to see if I could beat them. Running into someone, I felt was a great shadow, underneath middle in Civil War, and beating him was more enjoyable to me than when I got full Battlemaster.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[Skolops]

In reality yes you can but they are temporary buffs, none of which are gamebreaking by any stretch of the imagination and it would cost an astronomical amount of real life money to keep them running for any length of time. I'm sure people will run them for certain, but it just isnt realistic to have them always on

 

They arent like Rift at all you buy it temporarily and have to keep buying it over and over and over

 

Maybe years down the line when people has loads of coin just sitting around, but this is something that isn't anywhere close to a pay to win feature

 

Why so much misinformation, play it, find out facts, then post, or stay out of the debate

 

That's the only defense ive heard, but people are deluding themselves if they don't think there will be people with tons of cash (real world) who want to spend it on this. There will be. There were people in WoW who spent thousands to transfer their guilds around to different servers to beat guilds who smmack talked them.

[Skolops]

I just don't think "achievement"-wear is enticing to many. Do you know how much interest I have in wearing that operation title, or the ranked war hero gear? Zero. Getting that next regular WH piece, though? Oh baby, bring it on!

[Astarica]

I just don't think "achievement"-wear is enticing to many. Do you know how much interest I have in wearing that operation title, or the ranked war hero gear? Zero. Getting that next regular WH piece, though? Oh baby, bring it on!

 

This seems to be a problem started by WoW. If you don't have content just make up an achievement and maybe people will be stupid enough to think killing 1000 baby seals is content because it gets you the "Baby Seal Killer" title. I mean, I don't mind if people enjoy certain things, but unless the majority of the population enjoys killing baby seals then I don't consider that as valid content.

 

Achievements are nice but they're not substitute for content.

[Katsuragisama]

That's the only defense ive heard, but people are deluding themselves if they don't think there will be people with tons of cash (real world) who want to spend it on this. There will be. There were people in WoW who spent thousands to transfer their guilds around to different servers to beat guilds who smmack talked them.

 

I'm still curious as to what you're seeing that is P2W for WvW. Though to spend real cash on transferring your guild from server to server to beat up guilds who trash talked is a little hilarious. A little sad that they would also go so far to do that to begin with. But I'm sure Blizzard had no issues with the cash they made in the process.

 

I just don't think "achievement"-wear is enticing to many. Do you know how much interest I have in wearing that operation title, or the ranked war hero gear? Zero. Getting that next regular WH piece, though? Oh baby, bring it on!

 

I guess I can see it like that to a point. You want that nice damage boost and that gear advantage. But at the same time I dont. Then again this is coming from someone who thought the BM Assassin gear was horrible. I'm an assassin, why the hell am I supposed to run around in bright pink with cyan lightning bolts on the side of it? So I didnt. I took the nice and simple black/red/white Sorc BM gear, and remodded it for DPS. Never wore the Sin BM gear until the 1.2 release, and I had to because otherwise my expertise would be lacking like hell.

 

So at the same time going for that Greatsword of Day/Night, and combining them to get a sword that changes the way the sword looks depending on the time of day in the game, is something that interest me. For cosmetic shininess, over a gear advantage. O.o

[Skolops]

I'm still curious as to what you're seeing that is P2W for WvW. Though to spend real cash on transferring your guild from server to server to beat up guilds who trash talked is a little hilarious. A little sad that they would also go so far to do that to begin with. But I'm sure Blizzard had no issues with the cash they made in the process.

 

You can pay real money for buffs to your guild keep or fortress or whatever in WvW.

 

I guess I can see it like that to a point. You want that nice damage boost and that gear advantage. But at the same time I dont.

 

I don't want a gear edge. I want my opponent to be as well geared, but I like getting something new, and I like that new thing to be meaningful, not just cosmetic.

 

Ignore the rest. I'm on a kindle and cant scroll to delete your scraps.

 

So at the same time going for that Greatsword of Day/Night, and combining them to get a sword that changes the way the sword looks depending on the time of day in the game, is something that interest me. For cosmetic shininess, over a gear advantage. O.o

[mangarrage]

That's the only defense ive heard, but people are deluding themselves if they don't think there will be people with tons of cash (real world) who want to spend it on this. There will be. There were people in WoW who spent thousands to transfer their guilds around to different servers to beat guilds who smmack talked them.

 

It really simple. In the beginning of the game is the only time that it will be even a valid discussion. Once people satrt levelling their characters and giving gold to their respective guilds there will be no reason at all to buy anything with real money. Then guilds will all be running with buffs

I do not see it being at issue at all

A guild with 35 "buffed people" are going to come across 70 from 2 other worlds and get stomped anyway

+vit, +tough are probably good buffs but like +karma earned is also one, like I said it isnt going to do much

 

Someone did the math but I can't find the post but it was just completely unrealistic for any guild to run buffs constantly

[Katsuragisama]

You can pay real money for buffs to your guild keep or fortress or whatever in WvW.

 

Where exactly in any cash shop footage do you see any of that? The only thing I've seen about guild buffs effecting WvW is this. Which isnt bought with real world money, but how active your guild is, or in-game money. Even ArenaNet has stated that there is nothing in the cash shop that you cant acquire in-game. Even from Karma Boost, Experience Boost, Mystic Keys, etc. All are already available in-game. I'd like a link showing exist of such items, rather than taking your word. As I prefer to always give links to mine.

 

Even if there is something from the cash shop, you can still trade gold for gems (cash shop currency), and buy the item that way.

 

We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems. We think that’s important, because it lets more players participate on a level playing field, whether they use their free time or their disposable income to do it.

 

Quoted from Mike O'Brien here,

 

You've already said, "You can pay real money for buffs to your guild keep or fortress or whatever in WvW.", twice now. I got that, I'm just wondering what specific items you're seeing that I'm not. And even if they exist, you can still obtain them within the game, without paying a dime. I provided my sources, I'll wait for yours. O.o

Edit to add: PS: I don't mind playing a game that's Pay2Pretty. But if there is anything that is actually Pay2Win, I'll cancel my GW2 prepurchase right now, and get a refund. But given their track record with GW1, what I've seen from screenshots, and talk on forums from people who've actually played the BETA and seen the cash shop, I highly doubt it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[mangarrage]

Where exactly in any cash shop footage do you see any of that? The only thing I've seen about guild buffs effecting WvW is this. Which isnt bought with real world money, but how active your guild is, or in-game money. Even ArenaNet has stated that there is nothing in the cash shop that you cant acquire in-game. Even from Karma Boost, Experience Boost, Mystic Keys, etc. All are already available in-game. I'd like a link showing exist of such items, rather than taking your word. As I prefer to always give links to mine.

 

Even if there is something from the cash shop, you can still trade gold for gems (cash shop currency), and buy the item that way.

 

 

 

Quoted from Mike O'Brien here,

 

You've already said, "You can pay real money for buffs to your guild keep or fortress or whatever in WvW.", twice now. I got that, I'm just wondering what specific items you're seeing that I'm not. And even if they exist, you can still obtain them within the game, without paying a dime. I provided my sources, I'll wait for yours. O.o

 

Well the system is pretty simple. Real Money=Gems in game->gems can be sold for gold in game

 

But as I stated in my posts its not going to matter really

[Katsuragisama]

Well the system is pretty simple. Real Money=Gems in game->gems can be sold for gold in game

 

But as I stated in my posts its not going to matter really

 

I know, thats exactly what I said. I'm more curious as to what Skolops believes to have seen in the cash shop that could even be remotely considered P2W. I also agree that since the trading market is globally, the price will be reasonably stable. And like you said once people start leveling and giving gold to their guilds, it's not gonna matter. You're saying the same thing I am. I'm just curious as to what items -specifically- Skolops is talking about. "Screenshots or it didnt happen.", as they say.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[Derian]

Why are people calling GW2 F2P? You have to buy the game. A real F2P is like LoL. With that said, eventually the first GW1 had those P2W elements, I'm not sure why the second one won't be any different. I'm sure it won't at first, but people are kind of fooling themselves if it eventually won't. Edited July 30, 2012 by Derian

[AlyxDinas]

For as generally eloquent and insightful as I tend to find fungihoujo, I'm hearing a lot of Chicken Little.

[Revan-the-knight]

I played all 3 beta weekends and the pvp players will not return. The pvp in GW2 as well as the art and smoothness of the game is amazing. Nice try though

 

The Art? Heh, im not even commenting on the "art" of GW2

[UberDuberSoldat]

The "art" of GW2 is exactly what will keep alot of people from playing it.

 

In GW2 you can essentially be:

 

a tree

a lizard

a mouse

a dog

a cat

 

Sounds dumb as hell to me. Have fun with your stupid game that will attract the furries off the internet like noobs to the star wars forums qq'ing about balance

[Katsuragisama]

Why are people calling GW2 F2P? You have to buy the game. A real F2P is like LoL. With that said, eventually the first GW1 had those P2W elements, I'm not sure why the second one won't be any different. I'm sure it won't at first, but people are kind of fooling themselves if it eventually won't.

 

Okay it's B2P. What do you seen in the Guild Wars(1) cash shop, that's P2W? The expansions? The outfits? The character make over? The name change? The skill unlocks so that you dont have to buy the expansions, just get the skills? (Then again who isnt going to just buy the expansion to begin with?) O.o

[Jenzali]

After watching videos of GW2 PvP, the gameplay looks incredibly smooth and lag-free.

 

Even though it might be a better PvP game, I'm still staying here as I am tired of medieval fantasy universes. There are a few aesthetic qualms I have with GW2 such as the boring lore, art style, and that it seems every class including "melee" classes are wielding guns.

 

If there was GW2 gameplay in a Sci-Fi setting I'd probably be there in a heartbeat though.

[Caeliux]

Okay it's B2P. What do you seen in the Guild Wars(1) cash shop, that's P2W? The expansions? The outfits? The character make over? The name change? The skill unlocks so that you dont have to buy the expansions, just get the skills? (Then again who isnt going to just buy the expansion to begin with?) O.o

 

Yep, another fail Korean base game that sucks the money outta your wallet for more bling bling. If this is what this generation of so called gamers want then by all means leave the real rpg mmo games alone and never come back to real gaming far as a mmo is concerned.

 

I get so sick of people thinking FTP and cash shop games are the real deal, rpg games since EQ was never like this and it should never be like this.

 

Its a greedy mmo crowd out here and games like GW2 will suck you dry for your cash, you can bet that.

 

If you think mico-transaction is the only thing GW2 has in store then you have no idea what they are going to try to do.

 

There is a intention to FTP, its called money leech.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Caeliux

[Katsuragisama]

The "art" of GW2 is exactly what will keep alot of people from playing it.

 

In GW2 you can essentially be:

 

a tree

a lizard

a mouse

a dog

a cat

 

Sounds dumb as hell to me. Have fun with your stupid game that will attract the furries off the internet like noobs to the star wars forums qq'ing about balance

 

What is... I dont even... I'll give you the plant humanoid (tree), and the cat (charr), not even sure *** the Asura is supposed to be, and the other option is human or a large human (norn). But considering you guys are getting a cat race yourself, Cathar. I guess now SWTOR can attract noobs and furries.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[Derian]

Okay it's B2P. What do you seen in the Guild Wars(1) cash shop, that's P2W? The expansions? The outfits? The character make over? The name change? The skill unlocks so that you dont have to buy the expansions, just get the skills? (Then again who isnt going to just buy the expansion to begin with?) O.o

 

"Then again who isnt going to just buy the expansion to begin with?" A lot of people? I played GW1 I didn't bother with the expansions I just wanted to have fun. But then I knew I'd never be able to seriously pvp because of it. With no expansions you can't get the faction rankings and all that. You need to spend money in order to be competitive, saying "who isn't going to buy..." is a silly thing to say. That just proves my point.

 

I said it had elements, I didn't say it was specifically P2W or whatever the stupid acronym is. However you can't say you didn't need to spend money to be competitive, that's 100% BS.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Derian

[Astarica]

Yep, another fail Korean base game that sucks the money outta your wallet for more bling bling. If this is what this generation of so called gamers want then by all means leave the real rpg mmo games alone and never come back to real gaming far as a mmo is concerned.

 

I get so sick of people thinking FTP and cash shop games are the real deal, rpg games since EQ was never like this and it should never be like this.

 

Its a greedy mmo crowd out here and games like GW2 will suck you dry for your cash, you can bet that.

 

The only good deal for F2P are the games where the devs severely underestimated the value of the free stuff they're giving up and accidentally gave the players a good deal. Incompentence, after all, can trump even greed.

 

Outside of RIFT, I've yet to see any MMORPG that offers a good deal out of business sense. They're just repackaging the same $15/month equilvaent in a way that they hope you'd be too stupid to realize. RIFT is the only game I know of where the devs realized making $100 million/year isn't as good as $1 billion/year but it's still $100 million they don't have, so they're willing to give you all kinds of discounts + free content to get you $15/month. Everyone else, including the F2P, is still on the illusion that they could be the next WoW and pull in $1 billion/year. If you're looking for a good deal, you're basically banking on the fact that the devs are too stupid to figure out how to make money, but are good enough to deliver an awesome game. It's not impossible but that's a seriously mismatched set of abilities.

[Katsuragisama]

Yep, another fail Korean base game that sucks the money outta your wallet for more bling bling. If this is what this generation of so called gamers want then by all means leave the real rpg mmo games alone and never come back to real gaming far as a mmo is concerned.

 

I get so sick of people thinking FTP and cash shop games are the real deal, rpg games since EQ was never like this and it should never be like this.

 

Its a greedy mmo crowd out here and games like GW2 will suck you dry for your cash, you can bet that.

 

You do realize ArenaNet was founded by former Blizzard employees right?

 

The founders of ArenaNet were former employees of Blizzard Entertainment who played important roles in developing the highly successful video games Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Diablo II, and the Battle.net gaming network.

 

Which explains why Diablo III was such a failure... As for the rest, I've already said above that anything in the cash shop can be acquired in game (you did read that right?). Unless you're an idiot going on a spending spree without worry, to which that would be your own fault. O.o

 

[...] If you're looking for a good deal, you're basically banking on the fact that the devs are too stupid to figure out how to make money, but are good enough to deliver an awesome game. It's not impossible but that's a seriously mismatched set of abilities.

 

Someone else gets it.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[TDRedmage]

These threads are pointless for a few reasons

 

1 u will just be flamed by the fanboys of bioware, even tho u bring up valid points .

 

2. As far as pvp is concerned this game is a mess. Only the Fotm people are happy atm

 

3. Bioware is so slow to change anything even if it is blatantly out of wack .

 

4. I think the solution is to nerf operatives again. they are much more OP than Ptechs ...

 

1. probably

 

2. Your opinion

 

3. Your opinion

 

4. lol

[Katsuragisama]

Also there is one(edited, make that 2) more points.

 

Its a greedy mmo crowd out here and games like GW2 will suck you dry for your cash, you can bet that.

 

Face it, subscription based MMO's do the same thing. You buy a game from an AAA company, and it turns out to be a premature release (SWTOR/FFXIV/etc). Now SWTOR would have even more subs, if it wasnt released so early. But EA wanted that money. Not only that, they get back their money by making you pay monthly, while you wait for features that could have been in at launch, if they delayed it a few months. Do you not realize this by now? No name companies can make awesome F2P/B2P MMOs, and AAA companies can release crappy games with a crappy engine, missing features. And because you pay $15/mo you think they will magically make it awesome, and you continue to eat it up.

 

Edit to add:

 

I get so sick of people thinking FTP and cash shop games are the real deal, rpg games since EQ was never like this and it should never be like this.

 

If you think that paying $15/mo for slow content release every 2-4 months, when you're just going to rush through it and wait another 2-4 months for more, makes you a "real" gamer or something, then have at it. I'll take a Pay2Pretty/F2P/B2P game thats fun over throwing money at a company hoping Soon™ they make the game better any day.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[Archaar]

What is... I dont even... I'll give you the plant humanoid (tree), and the cat (charr), not even sure *** the Asura is supposed to be, and the other option is human or a large human (norn). But considering you guys are getting a cat race yourself, Cathar. I guess now SWTOR can attract noobs and furries.

 

The Asura race is absolutely awesome, their designers should win an award for the effort they put into those little guys. I'll be playing GW2 for the open world PvP personally, SWTOR has literally nothing to offer me anymore and isn't worth the sub, in my opinion.