All These Angry/Quit Threads Makes Me Sad

[Reppical]

This reminds me all to well of Star Wars Galaxies after the New Gaming Experience hit... I would read the forums and it was filled with people complaining, or posting their fair wells... and it makes me sad. I do take into account that our generation .... (1987-2000) is a generation of complainers... (in my honest opinion). However I am sad because if potential new players looked on the forums and saw all these posts... they would possibly be scared off. Ask yourself if you were researching a new MMO and the game looked promising; decided to check out the forums and saw all these posts... would you not have second doubts? I know I would.

 

I will admit, I can no longer play TOR, i've tried believe me, I only have one 50 in full battlemaster armor, my other alts are well below 40 except for one (who is 40). I commend those who have more than one 50. I don't want this to be a "my two cents" post. I would like to hear from others and how they feel about this situation. I have read a ton of "blame Bioware"... etc.. but the way I see it is, the MMO market is hard to begin with some games make it some don't. What makes it or did make it tough for other MMOs was WoW because it "revolutionized" the MMO industry back in 2005 (2005 right?). But today WoW is ancient and the new MMOs making WoW look like an old Cadillac (graphically speaking). I also wonder if people don't take into account how small WoW was before the expansions took place, how well do people remember vanilla WoW and how little it had in terms of content.

 

Lets also remember LOTRO, it was presumed to be the WoW-Killer, but it wasn't, why not? Because that Cadillac was already going 50mph while LOTRO had to catch up starting at 0mph. LOTRO has a ton more in depth content than WoW, even today there is so much to do but the addiction is gone? Why? No one can accurately answer that question. I believe its just "life".

 

SWTOR, i feel, is going down a similar path, does it have as much content as WoW does today? No. If we compared vanilla WoW to SWTOR today, would they be neck and neck.. probably, and we can all agree the quests in SWTOR are way more in depth and it doesn't feel like a grind... so what is SWTOR missing? Could it be that WoW kills other MMOs before they are even released because of the expectations WoW has left gamers?

 

(Didn't mean for it to be this long, but I feel its a good read). Have anyone tried The Secret World? I have and I love it, I don't feel addicted to it, I play at my own pace and the content seems abundant, but I know it is not, but it still feels that way which is a "magic" trick which seems to work. The game is new and in its infant stages, not much there in terms of PvP, group finder, etc... but it works... why? Is it because it is SO different from WoW? So I ask again has WoW left a hole in MMO world... where whatever feels like WoW will not make the cut? I believe that one day soon another MMO will take WoW's place because it will revolution the MMO industry, as WoW once did. I would bet my top dollar on it being another Blizzard product. One thing I can say is SWTOR does currently not seem to be that MMO which I speak of.

 

Thanks for listening, I look forward to reading your feedback!

[halueryphi]

I don't like the secret world. But like you said, it will be a Blizzard game because theres too many people who will play anything with a blizzard logo on it. I guarantee you, If Blizzard copied SWTOR and said it was their own.. it would prolly have like 4mil subs. THATS what's sad.

[Reppical]

I don't like the secret world. But like you said, it will be a Blizzard game because theres too many people who will play anything with a blizzard logo on it. I guarantee you, If Blizzard copied SWTOR and said it was their own.. it would prolly have like 4mil subs. THATS what's sad.

 

Thank you for reading it through. I don't really agree about the logo alone. I think most would associate the success of Blizzard games such as WoW and SC, SCII and assume that such success will follow into Blizzard's next creation. Have we known Blizzard to produce a game that has not scored high on any chart?

[halueryphi]

Thank you for reading it through. I don't really agree about the logo alone. I think most would associate the success of Blizzard games such as WoW and SC, SCII and assume that such success will follow into Blizzard's next creation. Have we known Blizzard to produce a game that has not scored high on any chart?

 

To be honest with you though, Their games aren't even that good. But their playerbase is what makes the game seem alive and they know that. They've been able to implement the sort of world that would work really well with over a million players guaranteed. And when you're new to the MMO business, you just dont have that guaranteed success that Blizzard does. But that's just my 2 cents. But think about it though. Alot of their games would only thrive if they had a community.

[Soluss]

If you want to compare vanilla WoW to ToR then I think you need to look at the whole picture. ToR is much easier and much quicker leveling curve. Players are also smarter now and know better how MMO systems work so they level even quicker. This is probably the biggest thing I can think of because you finish ToR a hell of a lot quicker then you do vanilla WoW. That means you run out of content a hell of a lot faster.

 

The second thing I think of is you cant actually expect to launch with less features then you did 8 years ago. If you wanted to make an FPS, do you think you could compete with the CoD of today by making an FPS that has the same features as vanilla Doom? No not likely. Players expect alot more today, and they have a right too. Technology moves at a faster rate and so should developing.

[halueryphi]

If you want to compare vanilla WoW to ToR then I think you need to look at the whole picture. ToR is much easier and much quicker leveling curve. Players are also smarter now and know better how MMO systems work so they level even quicker. This is probably the biggest thing I can think of because you finish ToR a hell of a lot quicker then you do vanilla WoW. That means you run out of content a hell of a lot faster.

 

The second thing I think of is you cant actually expect to launch with less features then you did 8 years ago. If you wanted to make an FPS, do you think you could compete with the CoD of today by making an FPS that has the same features as vanilla Doom? No not likely. Players expect alot more today, and they have a right too. Technology moves at a faster rate and so should developing.

 

Not a matter of technology. Its a matter of how much content there is. No matter how far into the future you are, the only thing it really comes down to is how many people are working on the project. And i don't think it was really alot since it was their first MMO. Developing and technology don't really go hand in hand.

Edited July 23, 2012 by halueryphi

[Reppical]

If you want to compare vanilla WoW to ToR then I think you need to look at the whole picture. ToR is much easier and much quicker leveling curve. Players are also smarter now and know better how MMO systems work so they level even quicker. This is probably the biggest thing I can think of because you finish ToR a hell of a lot quicker then you do vanilla WoW. That means you run out of content a hell of a lot faster.

 

The second thing I think of is you cant actually expect to launch with less features then you did 8 years ago. If you wanted to make an FPS, do you think you could compete with the CoD of today by making an FPS that has the same features as vanilla Doom? No not likely. Players expect alot more today, and they have a right too. Technology moves at a faster rate and so should developing.

 

Very well put, did not think about that especially the second part. As far as the rapidity of completing the content, I think if you listened to every conversation of every quest, the journey to reach max level takes some time. I would agree that if you skip the dialog and straight shoot it to max level then yes TOR takes much less time than Vanilla WoW

[Soluss]

Not a matter of technology. Its a matter of how much content there is. No matter how far into the future you are, the only thing it really comes down to is how many people are working on the project. And i don't think it was really alot since it was their first MMO. Developing and technology don't really go hand in hand.

 

Actually, they had the biggest budget in MMO history to work with. They had the biggest staff in MMO history to work with. They touted how huge of a staff they had and how they had teams for each aspect of the game working like dogs. Not enough people working on the game is not the correct answer.

 

As far as tech / dev go... yes tech does move faster but at the same time developers are alot wiser in the industry and they have alot more developer tools to work with (due to technology). So in a sense they do go hand in hand.

 

Last, this may have been Biowares first official MMO, but they had alot of people on their staff that had alot of experience in the MMO industry.

[Soluss]

Very well put, did not think about that especially the second part. As far as the rapidity of completing the content, I think if you listened to every conversation of every quest, the journey to reach max level takes some time. I would agree that if you skip the dialog and straight shoot it to max level then yes TOR takes much less time than Vanilla WoW

 

Yes, it is definately quicker to level with the space bar. I will say though, I listened to every single conversation on my first character. I did every single quest on my first character. It was still quicker leveling then I have leveled in any MMO that I have played. To add a positive to that... I will say it was probably the best leveling experience, the first time through, I have ever had.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Soluss

[Skidrowbro]

Yes, it is definately quicker to level with the space bar. I will say though, I listened to every single conversation on my first character. I did every single quest on my first character. It was still quicker leveling then I have leveled in any MMO that I have played. To add a positive to that... I will say it was probably the best leveling experience, the first time through, I have ever had.

 

And why is that huh? The "I don't have time to so give it to me now" crowd. The self gratification crowd is what turned MMO's of today into what they are. They then go on and complain about it after they want the handouts.

[Reppical]

As I was reading an article on consumer demand, it hit me. Is it possible that we as consumers (gamers) don't know what we want until it is first introduced to us by trial and error? Today we expect a group finder, had one never been introduce would we know enough to want one or even have an idea what it is? How does this tie into my original post, it doesn't exactly but it makes me wonder did TOR introduce something we did not like? For example the quest dialog was that a fair trade off for less content?

[TheBetty]

I would go as far to say that wow built up the MMO genre and destroyed it at the same time. What I mean by that is, because wow is 'the standard' when it comes to new MMO's. If a new MMO doesn't have everything wow has, people flame and that has been absolutely evident on these forums. TOR is a good game, if people would just accept it for what it is and not what it doesn't have compared to wow, people will enjoy it a lot more.

 

Accuse TOR of being a wow clone.

Flame that it doesn't have the same features and content of wow...

 

:confused::confused:

[Cuillin]

It's just full of WoW fanbois who are crying that this isn't Wow in space.

[Darth_Pants]

This reminds me all to well of Star Wars Galaxies after the New Gaming Experience hit... I would read the forums and it was filled with people complaining, or posting their fair wells... and it makes me sad. I do take into account that our generation .... (1987-2000) is a generation of complainers... (in my honest opinion)

 

Thanks for listening, I look forward to reading your feedback!

 

1987....that is a VERY specific year to pick to start your generation.....any reason you chose 1987?

[Soluss]

And why is that huh? The "I don't have time to so give it to me now" crowd. The self gratification crowd is what turned MMO's of today into what they are. They then go on and complain about it after they want the handouts.

 

I agree. I remember it took me a year to level my first character in EQ1. I loved every second of it and all 5+ years of it.

[Darth_Pants]

why is it that most ppl defending swtor mention WoW? you guys seem OBSESSED with that game....

[Spatology]

I can say, as a gamer from EQ-Warhammer-WoW-to Swtor. This game is better then the rest. I'm enjoying this last teir of content and am greatly looking forward to the next. The lack of an auto attack is refreshing.

 

I'd say, stick around. We will get more and more of the subs from wow as the game deflates and many old players will return after they get more free time. Like anything in life and gaming, population and intrest waxes and wanes. Keep your ties strong, remember those who make the diffrence and create as much "good" experience as you can in the game for other people and it goes the extra mile.

 

I've made it to 50 on four characters now, i have one 41 and a 20 otw but honestly in no hurry.

 

I honestly think blizzard is paying off people to create negative spin on forums for them, honestly. It sounds crazy, but, i went back to my wow server recently on a free reactivation and the population on my huge server had shrunk. Even my 7 team raiding guild had shrunk in size to 4 with an occasional 5th alt group.

 

All in all, this game has a huge potential and is being takeing in great directions IMO. The future is so bright he be wearin shades.

[Darth_Pants]

I can say, as a gamer from EQ-Warhammer-WoW-to Swtor. This game is better then the rest. I'm enjoying this last teir of content and am greatly looking forward to the next. The lack of an auto attack is refreshing.

 

you saying "swtor is better than Eq-Warhammer-WoW" does not actually MAKE it better. it means you are currently enjoying it more, but yeah.....thats a really stupid thing to say.

[Evgen]

I would go as far to say that wow built up the MMO genre and destroyed it at the same time. What I mean by that is, because wow is 'the standard' when it comes to new MMO's. If a new MMO doesn't have everything wow has, people flame and that has been absolutely evident on these forums. TOR is a good game, if people would just accept it for what it is and not what it doesn't have compared to wow, people will enjoy it a lot more.

 

Accuse TOR of being a wow clone.

Flame that it doesn't have the same features and content of wow...

 

:confused::confused:

I agree that WoW has destroyed the MMO and many other gaming genres. Or at least damaged them.

I think one problem is developers don't seem to copy the right parts of wow.

I don't think people care about the 3 different skill trees, or the the way mounts work. They do want group finder, and end game content. I think as players we don't know what will keep us interested in the game. I know for me the games I like also piss me off the most. Hi jumping puzzle datacrons!

[Darth_Pants]

I agree that WoW has destroyed the MMO and many other gaming genres. Or at least damaged them.

I think one problem is developers don't seem to copy the right parts of wow.

I don't think people care about the 3 different skill trees, or the the way mounts work. They do want group finder, and end game content. I think as players we don't know what will keep us interested in the game. I know for me the games I like also piss me off the most. Hi jumping puzzle datacrons!

 

care to name these MANY other genres that wow damaged or destroyed?

 

or was that just a wild exaggeration used to aid your argument?

[Selvec]

I'm happy with people leaving. It weeds out the whiners and makes it easier for quality players to meet up and enjoy each others company in the TOR world. Its also a great environment for RPers to thrive.

[Darth_Pants]

I'm happy with people leaving. It weeds out the whiners and makes it easier for quality players to meet up and enjoy each others company in the TOR world. Its also a great environment for RPers to thrive.

 

RP thrives with less players?

[EduardoJN]

I'm happy with people leaving. It weeds out the whiners and makes it easier for quality players to meet up.

 

easier for quality players to meet up

 

for quality players to meet up

 

quality players

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Evgen]

care to name these MANY other genres that wow damaged or destroyed?

 

or was that just a wild exaggeration used to aid your argument?

WoW had 12 million subscriptions at one point, not sure if that was the peak, that's a lof people raiding, grinding rep and doing dailies. It's very much a monopoly. Do you really think that didn't damage other game sales? Playing an MMO can be an addiction and a commitment. I'm sure it's destroyed a lot of RL relationships too

If you don't agree we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And what argument exactly was I trying to aid?

[Darth_Pants]

WoW had 12 million subscriptions at one point, not sure if that was the peak, that's a lof people raiding, grinding rep and doing dailies. It's very much a monopoly. Do you really think that didn't damage other game sales? Playing an MMO can be an addiction and a commitment. I'm sure it's destroyed a lot of RL relationships too

If you don't agree we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And what argument exactly was I trying to aid?

 

i thought as much.

 

saying that wow DESTROYED other GENRES because it was good and alot of ppl played it.

 

move along ppl, nothing worth reading from that guy here. just move along.

 

saying that other games sales are effected by the success of wow is one of the most backwards comments i have seen here in a while.

 

These other games didn't fail because wow is good, they failed because they are NOT GOOD.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Darth_Pants