And some people try to claim Powertechs are fine

[TheronFett]

I play a PT and I think I'm pretty decent -- I wreck people. I do very well on my inquisitors too, but I absolutely annihilate folks on my PT. This is VERY fun and I love playing the class, but I'm not afraid to admit that this is not balanced.

 

Powertechs have awesome offensive power, there's no doubt about it. I've also seen those 3+ Pyro teams, and most of the time, they lose. All that offense is worthless with 0 utility, 0 heals, and 0 defense. "Balance" does not mean making every class able to zerg everyone else. If you want that style of gameplay, go play a FPS. Classes have different roles to fill, yet all the QQers who rolled lower DPS/higher utility classes are constantly whining about balance.

 

Players seem to want to turn PvP into an arms race to see who can sling the most damage in a match. When that finally happens, the same group will be whining, wondering where their defense and utility went.

 

Edited July 22, 2012 by TheronFett

[shegoy]

Agreed, there really is nothing more to look at. I know BW is asking for feedback on classes and this and that but really... all you need to do is trust that people have figured out what is best -- and they have. And these are the most competitive of the folks who have min/maxed everything.

 

People have done the math, theorycrafters have done theirs, we've had months and months of experience with the classes and the fact that the majority of ranked teams take more than 1 marauder and more than 1 powertech should be pretty self explanatory.

 

The people have only truthfully figured what is best in their own interests.

 

People have also not done the math etc because we are still lacking anything but end of match screenshot's wheres the combat logs/ data to support ?

 

The only conclusive info is the people's ability to QQ " i cant kill this class or die to quickly, there are too many in Rated WZ's that says they are OP threads.

 

You have to honest with yourself the majority of the community does very little in helping BW help us, we fail regularly to back up with anything other than personal experience, then we believe ignoring threads discussing the subject already and create more duplicate posts all over the forums just to vent our frustration and not being constructive in the slightest in the process just because our plight wasn't center of attention.

Edited July 22, 2012 by shegoy

[Razacc]

Powertechs have awesome offensive power, there's no doubt about it. I've also seen those 3+ Pyro teams, and most of the time, they lose. All that offense is worthless with 0 utility, 0 heals, and 0 defense. "Balance" does not mean making every class able to zerg everyone else. If you want that style of gameplay, go play a FPS. Classes have different roles to fill, yet all the QQers who rolled lower DPS/higher utility classes are constantly whining about balance.

 

Players seem to want to turn PvP into an arms race to see who can sling the most damage in a match. When that finally happens, the same group will be whining, wondering where their defense and utility went.

 

 

Someone who gets it...refreshing

[Roiz]

I just did 267 000 damage on my lvl 12 vanguard, it is incredible. The closest guy did about 150 000 damage and he/she was on 40+ char. Recently playing my sniper at 50 I saw PT did 600 000 damage, I was in my sniper with 300 000 damage and I did pretty well , died very few times and almost all the time was dealing damage with quite low downtime.

[Twor]

I just did 267 000 damage on my lvl 12 vanguard, it is incredible. The closest guy did about 150 000 damage and he/she was on 40+ char.

 

Bolster. Someone who still doesn't understand it.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Twor

[TheGame]

Powertech are amazing because:

 

- they wear heavy armor

- they can hit up to 30m

 

They do very good damage because:

 

- they can kite like crazy

- that gives them the best ToT (Time On Target), which translates to great DPS overall

 

Overall they can beat pretty much every other class in the game because they kite melee and melee ranged classes.

 

Also, every single class dies to 2 vs 1. Very often without doing a lot of damage to one of those 2.

 

 

Not going to read this entire thread because lazy but....to the person who wrote this you obviously have no clue what you are talking about maybe you should go do some reaserch on the class and revise your post with a more presentable argument.

[Sathid]

The people have only truthfully figured what is best in their own interests.

 

People have also not done the math etc because we are still lacking anything but end of match screenshot's wheres the combat logs/ data to support ?

 

The only conclusive info is the people's ability to QQ " i cant kill this class or die to quickly, there are too many in Rated WZ's that says they are OP threads.

 

You have to honest with yourself the majority of the community does very little in helping BW help us, we fail regularly to back up with anything other than personal experience, then we believe ignoring threads discussing the subject already and create more duplicate posts all over the forums just to vent our frustration and not being constructive in the slightest in the process just because our plight wasn't center of attention.

 

You can get a pretty good picture doing WZ's over a course of time and when you see PT's doing top damage on a regular basis and the fact that ranked teams have two or more the proof is in the pudding,but hey go ahead and insinuate that the poster's here and myself are outright liar's.

[KBSIP]

You can get a pretty good picture doing WZ's over a course of time and when you see PT's doing top damage on a regular basis and the fact that ranked teams have two or more the proof is in the pudding,but hey go ahead and insinuate that the poster's here and myself are outright liar's.

 

I'll go ahead and call you a liar. class composition on rated teams is a function of your server and nothing else, on corellian run top team runs 3-4 scoundrels, and a mix of other classes, usually no vanguards, though when they bring one its a tank. they're currently 70-2, including running against teams trying to stack extra marauders and powertechs.

[Sathid]

I'll go ahead and call you a liar. class composition on rated teams is a function of your server and nothing else, on corellian run top team runs 3-4 scoundrels, and a mix of other classes, usually no vanguards, though when they bring one its a tank. they're currently 70-2, including running against teams trying to stack extra marauders and powertechs.

 

So i am a liar because the Imp's on your server cannot counter this "ONE" team?

You do realize there is people commenting here from MANY servers and by and large the only one's defending this imbalance is PT's,there is even a guild on my server that REQUIRE'S all members to have a PT alt,have you seen the amount of PT's and Vanguard's in the pre 50 WZ's as of late? it reminds meof the wave of scoundrels i saw prior to the buff stacking changes.

 

People will always gravitate to the least resistance,i dont know if BW is doing this by design,i hope not,but the PT is not balanced currently and to claim otherwise is naive.

 

Oh and your personal attack does not help your misguided cause.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Sathid

[Sookster]

I'll go ahead and call you a liar. class composition on rated teams is a function of your server and nothing else, on corellian run top team runs 3-4 scoundrels, and a mix of other classes, usually no vanguards, though when they bring one its a tank. they're currently 70-2, including running against teams trying to stack extra marauders and powertechs.

 

Um... ok, there ARE rated teams that stacks PT/VGs and mara/sents and are successful, it's kind of sad yet effective because when they call focus targets, things die quick. And 3 scoundrel I can see, 4 is just too many, the 4th scoundrel is wasting space.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Sookster

[shegoy]

You can get a pretty good picture doing WZ's over a course of time and when you see PT's doing top damage on a regular basis and the fact that ranked teams have two or more the proof is in the pudding,but hey go ahead and insinuate that the poster's here and myself are outright liar's.

 

Yes part of a full picture and only a part , if we where to say nerf PT Pyro and Marauders are we guaranteed not to have more than 2 of a certain class show up regularly... ? No it doesn't always work that way in fact that would mean another class/spec would possibly become over represented and start the cycle again.

 

I flipping hate people quoting from post WZ reports that do not provide the full picture in the first place and people who do not take the time to enable combat logging but still insist their version of events and theory's are correct regardless.

 

I would love to be able to have for once a time where one of these threads are equally constructive and not biased and we can dissect combat logs etc to build up a proper picture of what areas if any need to be adjusted/fixed

Edited July 22, 2012 by shegoy

[Kehtal]

I am Battlemaster with some War Hero and recruit bracers/belt. Like I said, it's not great, but it's darn good enough to not get killed over the course of 1.5 seconds.

 

You also discredit yourself in saying that pyrotechs do not use thermal detonator, as it is precisely one of their abilities.

 

I had hunker down, dodge, defense screen, and scrambling field up all at once. Did they CC me? It really doesn't matter, and no, they did not because I had hunker down up. Was one of them guarded? It really doesn't matter because as I said I died in A SINGLE GLOBAL COOLDOWN.

 

I'm not exaggerating, I'm not trolling, I'm not doing anything else other than reporting precisely what happened. KI showed up, got a single detonator on me, popped all 4 cooldowns, fired a vital shot at one of them, and then was left staring at the screen amazed that I was dead.

 

 

Things that must have occurred for this to be even remotely true:

 

2x HiB crits at ~3.5k or better

2x AP crits at ~3.5k or better

 

Figure in Incendiary Round (x2) or Plasma Cell procs to make up the difference.

 

 

Now, with 20% damage reduction from Scrambling Field, those numbers I gave are probably optimistic, or at the least "best case" scenarios for the PT.

 

If you used Dodge appropriately, you should have completely negated HiB, so that's their burst cut in half, unless they waited for it to fall off, in which case none of this happened in "a single global cooldown" and you could have managed more than a vital shot.

 

Defense Screen isn't "amazing" but it does absorb a fair amount of damage, and figuring in Ballistic Dampers and Cover Screen from the Sharpshooter tree, the odds are pretty slim that they managed what you described.

[Sathid]

Yes part of a full picture and only a part , if we where to say nerf PT Pyro and Marauders are we guaranteed not to have more than 2 of a certain class show up regularly... ? No it doesn't always work that way in fact that would mean another class/spec would possibly become over represented and start the cycle again.

 

I flipping hate people quoting from post WZ reports that do not provide the full picture in the first place and people who do not take the time to enable combat logging but still insist their version of events and theory's are correct regardless

 

Well in a perfect world all classes would be balanced and i believe they are close to it,but not there yet.

 

My main a Scoundrel has been through many changes,i sit currently at Valor 86 so it isnt as if i have re rolled to the next FOTM no the opposite i have done ton's of WZ's and have alt's of every class (within the limit of slot's and AC's) to better understand their function,how to counter etc so i am not basing my opinion on off hand data but yes granted my own personal experience's.

Thats said i dont wish to see any class gutted and neither does BW,well aside from Scrapper's it seem's,i just wish for balance and so does the majority of players,atleast i would hope so.

[shegoy]

Like iv said many times to these threads i would happily trade some burst and all my taunts if only for better survivability. For a Nerf to burst and DPS alone would break the spec without sufficient trade off in that respect.

Pyro have no escape mechanism or variable defence cd's associated with other DPS it's an all in or bust situation.

 

Gunnery/Arsenal spec on Mercs and commando took a fair hit and left them squishy as hell and now under represented because people think it is no longer a viable PVP spec.

 

PT pyro's share the same defensive abilities except we don't have a knock back as the above and would ultimately share the same fate although i admit the above have it much worse due their lack of mobility or lack of.

Edited July 22, 2012 by shegoy

[TheGame]

Taunts and guards. Mark the PT's with gun or something and focus them down fast when they show up....not like they are gonna hit a defensive cd or something. I mean if your in a rated and start focusing a PT they will die...a PT getting focused is also going to drain the healers since they get to just stand there and either kill whats attacking them or be killed.

 

A PT with purty looking dmg at the end is not as big of a game changer then say..a maradr with sum defense CD's to take pressure off healers, raw burst dmg, predation, ect....

[Rhyn]

if only all DPS classes had the ability to do that kind of damage. Most good teams are guarding their PT, and if you have a PT guarded and a healer on them life just sucks.

[Monterone]

I just did 267 000 damage on my lvl 12 vanguard, it is incredible. The closest guy did about 150 000 damage and he/she was on 40+ char. Recently playing my sniper at 50 I saw PT did 600 000 damage, I was in my sniper with 300 000 damage and I did pretty well , died very few times and almost all the time was dealing damage with quite low downtime.

 

BH (PT) is my only character that I've been able to break 300k multiple times while enjoying the bolster system from levels 10-14. Multiple times, as in consistently.

 

My first game with my now veteran PT was Huttball and I still remember it vividly. At level 10 I finished at 330k and the next guy had under half that. Controlled mid the entire time.

 

Granted, this is very probably against a very bad team, but I've played bad teams on my other characters also and have never been able to put up these numbers.

 

This was also evident while leveling compared to my sorcerer, assassin, sage, marauder and operative -- BH did FAR more damage to mobs while leveling then my other toons. Other guildies (I was in Ebonlore on HoG at the time) also tried it out and all noticed how much more damage BH did while leveling. It's not a secret...

 

Tip to folks -- if you want a fun leveling and PvPing experience roll a PT guys, you won't regret it.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Monterone

[Fdzzaigl]

BH (PT) is my only character that I've been able to break 300k multiple times while enjoying the bolster system from levels 10-14. Multiple times, as in consistently.

 

You're not even using like 90% of the skills you're using at 50 at lvl 10, nor do you have any of the talents.

 

So whatever.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Monterone]

You're not even using like 90% of the skills you're using at 50 at lvl 10, nor do you have any of the talents.

 

So whatever.

 

I know, isn't that crazy -- that all that dps is possible with only a starting set of skills?

[Fdzzaigl]

I know, isn't that crazy -- that all that dps is possible with only a starting set of skills?

 

So what? You spam flame burst, rocket punch when you can, and whatever the imp equivalent of explosive round is (which you never ever use at 50, except for stopping caps).

 

It doesn't tell **** about the class, because you're surfing on abilities that get buffed by the bolster system. Not on skill, not on actual talents or specs.

 

Also, before you go ahead and boast: screenshot please?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Monterone]

So what? You spam flame burst, rocket punch when you can, and whatever the imp equivalent of explosive round is (which you never ever use at 50, except for stopping caps).

 

It doesn't tell **** about the class, because you're surfing on abilities that get buffed by the bolster system. Not on skill, not on actual talents or specs.

 

Also, before you go ahead and boast: screenshot please?

 

Please excuse me if I don't go digging up screenshots on something that's not even hard to believe.

 

If you have a vanguard/powertech, I would ask myself why you weren't able to do at least comparable damage with yours? Maybe I had a nice set of circumstances or very unaware opponents but 300k isn't Mount Everest, at least for a BH.

 

If you don't have one then please create one and witness how easy it will be for you to break 250k.

 

Now try to do the same on another class.

 

And that BH damage stays very consistent or improves through levels. And I agree, that sounds very balanced, the way it should be -- good damage from the start and a nice even increase as you level; but if that is balance then most other classes are underpowered.

[Winkywinky]

Please excuse me if I don't go digging up screenshots on something that's not even hard to believe.

 

If you have a vanguard/powertech, I would ask myself why you weren't able to do at least comparable damage with yours? Maybe I had a nice set of circumstances or very unaware opponents but 300k isn't Mount Everest, at least for a BH.

 

If you don't have one then please create one and witness how easy it will be for you to break 250k.

 

Now try to do the same on another class.

 

And that BH damage stays very consistent or improves through levels. And I agree, that sounds very balanced, the way it should be -- good damage from the start and a nice even increase as you level; but if that is balance then most other classes are underpowered.

 

i have a Van and when i leveled my 50 Shadow and Scoundrel i came close to 300k many times... it was to hard on my guardian until the 40's...honestly it isnt that big a deal so stop acting like it is..

Edited July 22, 2012 by Winkywinky

[iphobia]

You're not even using like 90% of the skills you're using at 50 at lvl 10, nor do you have any of the talents.

 

So whatever.

 

Tell this to the Pyro's spamming Flameburst (Lvl 10) and Railshot (<Lvl 10) on 50 and still getting insane amounts of damage.

There are plenty of Pyro's where those are 90% of the spells they use, other 10% is pulling people into the fire/acid.

 

I love FOTM gangstaz.

Edited July 22, 2012 by iphobia

[KBSIP]

Tell this to the Pyro's spamming Flameburst (Lvl 10) and Railshot (<Lvl 10) on 50 and still getting insane amounts of damage.

There are plenty of Pyro's where those are 90% of the spells they use, other 10% is pulling people into the fire/acid.

 

I love FOTM gangstaz.

 

learn the class before you comment, PPA isn't available until level 27, anyone without it is going to overheat unless 1/2 of their attacks are rapid shots or unused GCD's. flame burst spam is never effective for pyro on its own, only AP gets away with that with no heat issues.

[Sookster]

I hit 350K a few times on my PT with points into shieldtech at low levels! I remember doing exactly 318K at level 17. Bolster boosts your critical chance, surge, armor and power and it diminishes as you get closer to 50.

 

And my madness assassin was the easiest to level since It did crazy damage all the way to 50, and I thought my jugg as immortal was stupidly easy.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Sookster