And some people try to claim Powertechs are fine

[Ybini]

Even if those powertechs killed you very very fast (which I'm sure they did), they can not ever have killed you in 1 GCD.

I bet they can if they're higher expertise, that's extra damage in their pocket.

[Keypek]

I am Battlemaster with some War Hero and recruit bracers/belt. Like I said, it's not great, but it's darn good enough to not get killed over the course of 1.5 seconds.

 

You also discredit yourself in saying that pyrotechs do not use thermal detonator, as it is precisely one of their abilities.

 

I had hunker down, dodge, defense screen, and scrambling field up all at once. Did they CC me? It really doesn't matter, and no, they did not because I had hunker down up. Was one of them guarded? It really doesn't matter because as I said I died in A SINGLE GLOBAL COOLDOWN.

 

I'm not exaggerating, I'm not trolling, I'm not doing anything else other than reporting precisely what happened. KI showed up, got a single detonator on me, popped all 4 cooldowns, fired a vital shot at one of them, and then was left staring at the screen amazed that I was dead.

 

Yeah got thermol detonator mixed up with sticky grenade in my head so that's my bad. But doesn't matter a whole lot regardless since you can provide no other details of what happened. If you got all of your defensive CDs off in time than you are lieing or being a little over zealous.

 

Worst case scenario if they are extremely coordinated and did not waste any unneeded CDs is (and using assault VG terms cause I don't know pyro version)... going to assume that each got off two abilities (so 4 total) since you say you died in one GCD. So going off what you've told us we know that one got an assault plastique or thermol D on you and assuming you kept your distance from them since you are a GS and you'd be an idiot to be within 10 meters of either of them we can come up with the worst case scenario of....

 

PT 1= TD (2500 crit average) plus a HiB (5300 crit being very generous)

PT 2=IR (1000 crit being very generous on first hit) plus a HiB (5300 crit being very generous)

 

14,100 damage and that's if all 4 abilities crit and crit very very well which means your gear sucks and you had NO defensive CDs on such as defense screen. Not to mention dodge would negate both HiBs which leaves you with 3500 damage. Not to mention thermal detonator wouldn't explode in 1.5 seconds. Not to mention you dropped into cover so should have had 20% defense plus another 20% if specced into it. I mean there is a lot of RNG that would have to go right for two people and even then it wouldn't equal over 16k damage.

 

Either way, gratz trying to fight two high dps classes with a squishy.

[xBloodcrazed]

I bet they can if they're higher expertise, that's extra damage in their pocket.

 

LOL expertise

[JayPres]

I got DPS'd by DPS'ers

 

You're being unrealistic with you expectations. I'm sorry but PTs are supposed to be vicious. I don't play one, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Fdzzaigl]

I bet they can if they're higher expertise, that's extra damage in their pocket.

 

If he was in total PvE gear, like tionese quality or something, then maybe, but even then it's unlikely. I (mostly War Hero) crit a PvE rakata sorc for about 5.2k or something with railshot yesterday, and that was very unusual.

 

But the OP has already said he's BM with some WH pieces.

[Gidoru]

It's not entirely whether PT are fine- the TTK is was too short right now almost across the board- juggs, mara, snipers can also do that kind of damage in seconds, PT just is a bit faster..

 

First of all its really not all that close. PT do the highest burst damage by a pretty large margin.

 

Second of all, there is a key difference here. All of a PTs attacks are ranged and instant. Juggs and Marauders are melee and can be kited. A Powertech cannont be kited contrary to the ridiculous and false assertions of the swarms of PT players. And Snipers can certainly do a lot of damage yes, but they are extremely easy to LOS, and if they do not have Hunker Down, they are extremely easy to break out of Cover substantially slowing down their DPS.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Gidoru

[Skolops]

Now i would agree to some points in pvp being some what fubared but id go in diffrent directions with it.

As all these mass millions that are goign to flock to gw2 and such , I find to be such a huge bag of $#%@ . Gw2 is somehow the threatning manner that is gonna kill everything in the solar system and its not even gonna happen. Its funny that people keep saying this over and over and over again .

 

But any ways to the op what did you expect if you ran up on 2 guys solo ? Let me guess your name is superman and you can kill the empire in one giant leap? I bet if you had 2 ops up there and you ran up there they flatten your butt in the same amount of time , or maybe 2 sins , even 2 mercs or 2 snipers .

Just sounds like you used super poor judgemnet and well you got booboo's and this is how you justify pt's being op. to you sir I lulz , and I lulz loudly.

 

I expected to die after a somewhat short but still... existent fight.

 

Remember - as many people responding here are ignoring in favor of taking easy shots - I wasn't trying to solo 2 powertechs as a part of any sound strategy. I entered a 100-10 Novarre Coast with my team caught in the "die one at a time coming out of the southern spawn" syndrome (indicating that not only is there no point in trying to go south, but also that they were so bad of a team taht there was no real point in trying that hard with only a minute or so left until the end). As such, I figured I'd go to northeast to see what was going on there. Once there, with about 6% left, I saw 2 powertechs. What was I supposed to do - turn around with probably 20 seconds left in the warzone?

 

Of course not - I knew I was not capping that node, but there was really nothing else good to be doing, either. The reason I wrote this post is not that I think its outrageous that a gunslinger couldn't solo cap a node against 2 players. Rather, I think its absurd how quickly 2 powertechs can kill a single person with his cooldowns.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Skolops

[Ybini]

LOL expertise

 

Yeah it still doesnt' add up, need 13% damage to the crits to make 16k. So it'd be crits + 1 more hit.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ybini

[Alkiii]

Snipers have good damage, but they can't put it out as fast as a Pyrotech. So many of you are here claiming that this kind of damage isn't possible, yet we continuously see people saying otherwise.

 

On my almost full geared WH Sage, I get destroyed by Pyrotechs. They're the only class that no matter what I do, I'm dead before I can get a full rotation off. Even with stuns, snares and the likes.

 

Thing is, the longer this stuff continues, the more upset people will get. With GW2 right around the corner, I feel that PvP players will head in that direction to fill their PvP needs. If GW2 is a bust, then maybe SWTOR will have some hope in the PvP department. Right now, too many people are upset about the balance in this game.

 

As a Balance Sage, it's extremely painful to PvP against a Pyrotech in this game.

[Keypek]

I expected to die after a somewhat short but still... existent fight.

 

Remember - as many people responding here are ignoring in favor of taking easy shots - I wasn't trying to solo 2 powertechs as a part of any sound strategy. I entered a 100-10 Novarre Coast with my team caught in the "die one at a time coming out of the southern spawn" syndrome (indicating that not only is there no point in trying to go south, but also that they were so bad of a team taht there was no real point in trying that hard with only a minute or so left until the end). As such, I figured I'd go to northeast to see what was going on there. Once there, with about 6% left, I saw 2 powertechs. What was I supposed to do - turn around with probably 20 seconds left in the warzone?

 

Of course not - I knew I was not capping that node, but there was really nothing else good to be doing, either. The reason I wrote this post is not that I think its outrageous that a gunslinger couldn't solo cap a node against 2 players. Rather, I think its absurd how quickly 2 powertechs can kill a single person with his cooldowns.

 

I don't fault you for trying, more people in this game could use some balls quite frankly. You could have encountered two bad players and easily dispatched them with a gunslinger in no time. So no reason not to try. It's more the over exaggeration that is the issue. I have no trouble believing they owned you in 6 seconds. I can even believe 3 seconds if they got some extremely lucky RNG, were extremely synced in ability useage (ie-they both don't shoot IR at some point and both got 2 GCDs off in exactly 3 seconds), got within 10 meters of you, and you did not in fact get all of your defensive CDs active but even that would be rare.

[SinnedWill]

Yeah got thermol detonator mixed up with sticky grenade in my head so that's my bad. But doesn't matter a whole lot regardless since you can provide no other details of what happened. If you got all of your defensive CDs off in time than you are lieing or being a little over zealous.

 

Worst case scenario if they are extremely coordinated and did not waste any unneeded CDs is (and using assault VG terms cause I don't know pyro version)... going to assume that each got off two abilities (so 4 total) since you say you died in one GCD. So going off what you've told us we know that one got an assault plastique or thermol D on you and assuming you kept your distance from them since you are a GS and you'd be an idiot to be within 10 meters of either of them we can come up with the worst case scenario of....

 

PT 1= TD (2500 crit average) plus a HiB (5300 crit being very generous)

PT 2=IR (1000 crit being very generous on first hit) plus a HiB (5300 crit being very generous)

 

14,100 damage and that's if all 4 abilities crit and crit very very well which means your gear sucks and you had NO defensive CDs on such as defense screen. Not to mention dodge would negate both HiBs which leaves you with 3500 damage. Not to mention thermal detonator wouldn't explode in 1.5 seconds. Not to mention you dropped into cover so should have had 20% defense plus another 20% if specced into it. I mean there is a lot of RNG that would have to go right for two people and even then it wouldn't equal over 16k damage.

 

Either way, gratz trying to fight two high dps classes with a squishy.

 

TD (AP) crits for much more than 2500. Pretty sure my TD hits medium armor wearers for ~2400 if it DOESN'T crit - my TD crits are usually 4400-5100's.

Also, I have a feeling they were both pyros, who both pre-cast Incindiery (I'd say its highest up-front crit damge would be ~1k) + TD (4400-5100) and both rail-shotted (~4800-5200 to medium armored classes) - naturally, there would also be 4 DoT ticks thrown in there, but lets just disregard that (although it's significant). Yes, to the untrained eye, we might only appear to have used one GCD, yet it was 2 pre-casts followed by a railshot - many people freak out when they approach a pyro thinking they'll have a nice 1v1, only to see that they've been dropped below 50%health from one pyro using that cycle, and they all seem to think it only came from railshot since they're finally in range for their own attacks after they hear rail-shot so that's what they notice (sure, the TD countdown timer is noticable, but the damage caused by TD when it doesn't crit is what makes it so surprisingly powerful when it does, so many players typically ignore popping defensives when they hear it).

[Fdzzaigl]

Snipers have good damage, but they can't put it out as fast as a Pyrotech. So many of you are here claiming that this kind of damage isn't possible, yet we continuously see people saying otherwise.

 

On my almost full geared WH Sage, I get destroyed by Pyrotechs. They're the only class that no matter what I do, I'm dead before I can get a full rotation off. Even with stuns, snares and the likes.

 

Thing is, the longer this stuff continues, the more upset people will get. With GW2 right around the corner, I feel that PvP players will head in that direction to fill their PvP needs. If GW2 is a bust, then maybe SWTOR will have some hope in the PvP department. Right now, too many people are upset about the balance in this game.

 

As a Balance Sage, it's extremely painful to PvP against a Pyrotech in this game.

 

You can't kill a person as quickly as the OP claims, period.

 

Burst in this game is too high, just like there aren't enough counters to being stunlocked after you've used your CC break once, there aren't enough counters to being focused by ANY combination of classes. Powertechs having very high burst that they can put out frequently automatically makes them a target for whining.

TOR needs to hand out more counter-moves to most classes out there, making PvP more of a strategic affair, as you should have to balance when to use cooldowns.

 

What GW2 does right is exactly what this game promised when it launched: fights that last a decent time, even under focus, with a lot of strategic manoeuvring. + a form of PvP that isn't just a big line-up of 10 minute matches.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Metalmac]

The OP is basically saying two PTs did 8k damage each in 1.5 seconds- that's completely reasonable, a PT will crit for over 5k most of the time with rail shot, and thermal can crit for about 5k with luck.

 

Double rail shot and a thermal with crits would be enough damage to kill most people in the span of a few seconds.

 

It's not entirely whether PT are fine- the TTK is was too short right now almost across the board- juggs, mara, snipers can also do that kind of damage in seconds, PT just is a bit faster.

 

People can try to claim nothing's wrong with a class being able to 100 to 0 you in a single stun with ease- but looking at public/community opinion on the game, the massive drop in subs and the huge reduction in people pvping, as well as how many people of certain classes are in RWZ while how few of others are in RWZ all state very clearly, and with numbers so it's not just opinion- this game's pvp is in awful shape right now.

 

It's getting worse, and time's almost up- at the end of August, they either need to have something great in store for pvp balance and innovation, as well as something new on what they're going to do with world pvp... or, they have to hope that GW2 is going to be a complete bust in pvp. Betting on another company, one that actually has a good track record for pvp, failing is probably not going to be a great plan for BW.

 

Agreed. I used to PVP all the time but got sick of be killed in less then 2 Globals.

In full Augmented WH gear my Sage is locked down and killed just like I was in Recurit gear.

[Skolops]

TD (AP) crits for much more than 2500. Pretty sure my TD hits medium armor wearers for ~2400 if it DOESN'T crit - my TD crits are usually 4400-5100's.

Also, I have a feeling they were both pyros, who both pre-cast Incindiery (I'd say its highest up-front crit damge would be ~1k) + TD (4400-5100) and both rail-shotted (~4800-5200 to medium armored classes) - naturally, there would also be 4 DoT ticks thrown in there, but lets just disregard that (although it's significant). Yes, to the untrained eye, we might only appear to have used one GCD, yet it was 2 pre-casts followed by a railshot - many people freak out when they approach a pyro thinking they'll have a nice 1v1, only to see that they've been dropped below 50%health from one pyro using that cycle, and they all seem to think it only came from railshot since they're finally in range for their own attacks after they hear rail-shot so that's what they notice (sure, the TD countdown timer is noticable, but the damage caused by TD when it doesn't crit is what makes it so surprisingly powerful when it does, so many players typically ignore popping defensives when they hear it).

 

Oh, I know there is a setup involved. I imagine that in the time it took me to hit my cooldowns is when these things were going off.

[Metalmac]

You can't kill a person as quickly as the OP claims, period.

 

Burst in this game is too high, just like there aren't enough counters to being stunlocked after you've used your CC break once, there aren't enough counters to being focused by ANY combination of classes. Powertechs having very high burst that they can put out frequently automatically makes them a target for whining.

TOR needs to hand out more counter-moves to most classes out there, making PvP more of a strategic affair, as you should have to balance when to use cooldowns.

 

What GW2 does right is exactly what this game promised when it launched: fights that last a long time, even under focus, with a lot of strategic manoeuvring. + a form of PvP that isn't just a big line-up of 10 minute matches.

 

Sage originally was like this and got nerfed into the dirt. This needs to happen to other class.

No one complains about Sage being OP and killing people in 3 Global Cooldowns.

[xBloodcrazed]

Sage originally was like this and got nerfed into the dirt. This needs to happen to other class.

No one complains about Sage being OP and killing people in 3 Global Cooldowns.

 

They need to bring the bolster system to 50 bracket and just bolster everyone to powertech might as well save everyone the time of rerolling

[Monterone]

I am Battlemaster with some War Hero and recruit bracers/belt. Like I said, it's not great, but it's darn good enough to not get killed over the course of 1.5 seconds.

 

You also discredit yourself in saying that pyrotechs do not use thermal detonator, as it is precisely one of their abilities.

 

I had hunker down, dodge, defense screen, and scrambling field up all at once. Did they CC me? It really doesn't matter, and no, they did not because I had hunker down up. Was one of them guarded? It really doesn't matter because as I said I died in A SINGLE GLOBAL COOLDOWN.

 

I'm not exaggerating, I'm not trolling, I'm not doing anything else other than reporting precisely what happened. KI showed up, got a single detonator on me, popped all 4 cooldowns, fired a vital shot at one of them, and then was left staring at the screen amazed that I was dead.

 

I believe you, my PT is in mixed augmented WH/BM gear and I can take out half the health of a squishier class in one GCD. Well, technically it's 3 GCDs but to anyone else they will appear as 1.

 

If you were wearing ANY recruit gear, you really stand no chance... and I fully believe that two well geared pyrotechs could kill you in what would appear 1 global.

 

I think it's time we all stopped defending our classes mindlessly and tried to help create a more balanced game. Pyro PTs do more burst than they should and would gladly trade SOME of that burst for better sustained damage and/or better survivability or mobility.

 

I can burst people down to almost dead in mere seconds, and if by chance you let me get within my Flameburst range of you, you done effed up!

 

Balance all classes, marauders -- own up.

[Alkiii]

You can't kill a person as quickly as the OP claims, period.

 

Yet people complain about this happening on a constant basis. My Sage got nerfed for having an instant cast nuke that hit pretty darn hard. Then my crit got nerfed, so forth and so on ... yet nothing is being done to Pyro.

 

I myself have jumped on a Pyro with 1/3 of his life left and me having a full life bar. Before I got him to 1/8th life, I was dead saying to myself, "how in the <BLEEP> did that even happen?"

 

It's absurd to even defend it at this point. The fact of the matter is, if things don't change, they stand to lose a metric <BLEEP>ton of people to GW2. Which is sad because I really like this game.

[Eldriq]

I have seen Pyro get 800,000 plus damage in a rated warzone against other well geared opponents"almost full WH". Name one other class that can do that?

[Keypek]

Also, I have a feeling they were both pyros, who both pre-cast Incindiery (I'd say its highest up-front crit damge would be ~1k) + TD (4400-5100) and both rail-shotted (~4800-5200 to medium armored classes) - naturally, there would also be 4 DoT ticks thrown in there, but lets just disregard that (although it's significant). Yes, to the untrained eye, we might only appear to have used one GCD,

 

There is no pre cast when it comes to total GCDs used which has been claimed as one... 1.5 seconds was even said. You just said a rotation that takes 2 GCDs to get off three things.... yes they begin the fight by shooting IR which starts one GCD... in theory they get off one more ability after that which marks the end of one GCD. I guess if he doesn't notice getting shot the first time it doesn't count? Not to mention TD takes 3 seconds to go off and you're saying TD crits for as much as HiB? I'd like video of that. Unless you're fighting people in pve gear.

 

Regardless the point is most of these discussions always take on the most extreme, or even impossible, results when QQing about them. Do pyros and assault have the best burst in game? Yes that's their only job. But I don't believe 99% of the QQ stories on the forums.

[NoTomorrow]

I play both classes and there was really nothing you could do against 2.

 

What was your spec? Did hou have ballistic dampers? Did you flashbang them? Did you activate evasion once they ignited you? Did you root one of them?

 

1vs1 is a completely different story, you should win much easier if he has no LoS options.

[Skolops]

I play both classes and there was really nothing you could do against 2.

 

What was your spec? Did hou have ballistic dampers? Did you flashbang them? Did you activate evasion once they ignited you? Did you root one of them?

 

1vs1 is a completely different story, you should win much easier if he has no LoS options.

 

At the time I was in Dirty Fighting spec without ballistic dampers, though I may have had internal damage reduction, I'm not entirely sure as I was trying something out.

 

I believe I did throw the flash grenade just as I died - I could be wrong it was a few hours ago now. Again, I ddn''t expect to win. I just found it shocking to be burst down through all of my defenses in such a short time.

[Skolops]

There is no pre cast when it comes to total GCDs used which has been claimed as one... 1.5 seconds was even said. You just said a rotation that takes 2 GCDs to get off three things.... yes they begin the fight by shooting IR which starts one GCD... in theory they get off one more ability after that which marks the end of one GCD. I guess if he doesn't notice getting shot the first time it doesn't count? Not to mention TD takes 3 seconds to go off and you're saying TD crits for as much as HiB? I'd like video of that. Unless you're fighting people in pve gear.

 

Regardless the point is most of these discussions always take on the most extreme, or even impossible, results when QQing about them. Do pyros and assault have the best burst in game? Yes that's their only job. But I don't believe 99% of the QQ stories on the forums.

 

Yes, the Thermo Detonator got put on me a few seconds before the rest of the attack.

 

I was running up the hill from west to east and and going to try to sneak in around the right side of the big metal plate at the top, but saw a powertech starting to come towards me in that direction, so I went left to go in the "normal entrance", closer to the node.

 

As I did, he came around the plate from the right hand side and got his detonator on me. I leg shot him to root him, and continued around up towards the node. Upon doing so, I saw a second powertech there so I threw a DoT on him and took cover, popped dodge and defense screen recognizing the incoming damage from the first detonator and the likelihood of a rail shot, hunkered down and hit scrambling field - the big circular 20% damage reduction.

 

At this point the second powertech had made his way out of the expired root and up to the two of us, so I tried to launch my flash grenade (I believe, could be wrong on this) and then went to hit my freighter flyby to hopefully keep them off of me. Before I could, I suddenly realized I was dead.

 

So the total battle time was more than 1.5 seconds, yes, but the total time of them actually hitting me with any abilities me was very short - 1.5 to 3 seconds.

[Asmok]

I expected to die after a somewhat short but still... existent fight.

 

Remember - as many people responding here are ignoring in favor of taking easy shots - I wasn't trying to solo 2 powertechs as a part of any sound strategy. I entered a 100-10 Novarre Coast with my team caught in the "die one at a time coming out of the southern spawn" syndrome (indicating that not only is there no point in trying to go south, but also that they were so bad of a team taht there was no real point in trying that hard with only a minute or so left until the end). As such, I figured I'd go to northeast to see what was going on there. Once there, with about 6% left, I saw 2 powertechs. What was I supposed to do - turn around with probably 20 seconds left in the warzone?

 

Of course not - I knew I was not capping that node, but there was really nothing else good to be doing, either. The reason I wrote this post is not that I think its outrageous that a gunslinger couldn't solo cap a node against 2 players. Rather, I think its absurd how quickly 2 powertechs can kill a single person with his cooldowns.

 

So instead of making a post that stats that pt's are yadda yadda , and skew the story given , which you have done now it should be on the lines of . I Joined a fail WZ match and I lost end story . Trying to put it on the pt's for you joing a fail WZ is like saying operatives shot you and made you unsub .

 

Its called misinformation and here you put in what really happend .

Edited July 19, 2012 by Asmok

[Fdzzaigl]

Yet people complain about this happening on a constant basis. My Sage got nerfed for having an instant cast nuke that hit pretty darn hard. Then my crit got nerfed, so forth and so on ... yet nothing is being done to Pyro.

 

I myself have jumped on a Pyro with 1/3 of his life left and me having a full life bar. Before I got him to 1/8th life, I was dead saying to myself, "how in the <BLEEP> did that even happen?"

 

It's absurd to even defend it at this point. The fact of the matter is, if things don't change, they stand to lose a metric <BLEEP>ton of people to GW2. Which is sad because I really like this game.

 

Look, let me tell you what I think happened:

 

1) OP approaches point, sees 2 opponents move toward him, pops cooldowns

2) Both pyro's do Incendiary Missile, 1k+ primary damage + dot (1 GCD)

3) 1 or 2 pyro's put Thermal Detonator on OP (2GCD)

4) OP's Dodge has ran out after 3 seconds, Thermal Detonators explode for a possible total of ~9k damage max.

5) Both Pyro's use Railshot (3GCD)

6) OP is hit for another 9k damage max (about 15.5k total with only 1 pyro using Thermal Detonator + dot would equal a kill, all of this took a total of 3 GCD's)

 

Let me tell you something else. This week I had a match where I was solo defending a turret in Alderaan, a Mara in BM gear comes toward me (assault vanguard).

 

1) I put Incendiary Round on him, then I LoS.

2) Mara runs around for a bit, I pop out and use Ion Pulse, that puts plasma cell dot on him, then LoS again

3) Mara doesn't know what to do, positions himself on the opposite side of the point and starts capping

4) I use Assault plastique, close in, use ion pulse, HiB at the same time that Assault Plastique crits = about 11.5k damage with all three critting. Combined with the dots that had already been running on him he died in the blink of an eye.

 

I had 100% health left, it appeared as if I had killed him in 2 GCD's, but I didn't, I waited and then got lucky with a big lineup while he didn't use his CD's and didn't chase me while snaring me, like a more experienced Marauder would do.

I've even seen this kind of thing on Mara's that I would call "good", those that almost always kill me otherwise. They make a mistake, get too cocky, and I get a big line-up off on them which makes it appear as if I killed him in 1-2 GCD's, while I absolutely didn't in reality.

 

On the other hand: I've also been killed like this by totally different classes. For example (theoretically), 2 gunslingers: charged burst (can be made instant), aimed shot (1.5s with crit), trickshot; do that twice at the same time and you'll feel the pain. Or 2 Marauders: force scream, smash, vicious throw; those can all hit for 3.5k +

Two tactics vanguards: fire pulse, stockstrike, high impact bolt, all above 3k.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Fdzzaigl