Executive Producer Rich Vogel Bails on TOR

[theunwarshed]

Sorry, I don't buy it. Not for one iota. GZ has been with BioWare for almost ten years - now suddenly he's picking up and going to Singapore? RV was with them for 7 years and now he is heading who knows where. Next management head on the block is the CEO of EA itself. Plus there have already been two rounds of layoffs in BW Austin. Timing is too coincidental.

 

While I still have fun in the game (thanks to being in a great guild), it is obvious this game is tanking fast (and still tanking). The only ones to blame are the lead designers. It suffers from an amazing amount of tunnel vision and design arrogance of thinking one knows better than their players. A business is simple - provide customers what they want and they buy from you. Act like you are a game design god and your players are a bunch of peons who don't know any better and they don't buy from you. Now, the heads are rolling in management for the failure that SWTIR has become. It is that simple.

 

agreed, it's like rats leaving a sinking ship.

[Lenlo]

Screw GW2, and screw SWTOR if Bioware doesn't get it together.

 

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/

 

[Ratham]

Screw GW2, and screw SWTOR if Bioware doesn't get it together.

 

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/

 

 

Another single player game with a sub fee?

[Tuscad]

Screw GW2, and screw SWTOR if Bioware doesn't get it together.

 

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/

 

 

Pretty sure Zenimax is making it not Bethesda, so it will be interesting to see if they understand how to make an Elder Scrolls game or not.

[Bulwyf]

I will be honest, this game is a failure for me and has been since beta. The decision to not have three faction open world rvr as the true end game was the killer. This game is simply WoW without the years of raiding material tacked on in a Star Wars skin with some voice acting. I know for myself and many other gamers gear treadmills are so 2002 that is beyond obtuse to expect people to continue to do them. I don't care about raids or instanced pvp. If you check my characters you won't see one raid, flash point or pvp battleground done or even attempted.

 

The big difference from EA's point of view is that this game was supposed to be a reliable money maker. No one expected WoW numbers but a consistent 1 million subs at 15.00 a month? Sure. And while I don't have the numbers I'm absolutely positive that is not the reality. So the big guys get the axe up top and we've already seen at least two rounds of public layoffs because the game simply failed to deliver.

 

I honestly wish more games would give a three faction open world rvr end game model a chance. Daoc is still going strong and I feel that GW2 will as well.

[Jett-Rinn]

But NONE of those games cost an estimated $200M+ to build. Big, big, huge difference.

 

At the end of the day who cares that money is gone...EA isn't going to shut the game down because they feel like they are out 150 million (which is the correct amount) The game will more than likely go F2P in the next six months and will probably see a huge increase in sales from the cash shop that every F2P game profits on.

 

Hell I have a friend who works for Turbine he got 25% more of a year end bonus because LOTRO did double their projected sales figures.

 

SWTOR can still be a huge financial success and it more than likely will be.

[Jett-Rinn]

Pretty sure Zenimax is making it not Bethesda, so it will be interesting to see if they understand how to make an Elder Scrolls game or not.

 

Considering that their lead combat desinger has never shipped a title (but hey she's hot ) I don't expect very much.

[Jett-Rinn]

agreed, it's like rats leaving a sinking ship.

 

if only some rats would leave the game.

[Morrolan]

But NONE of those games cost an estimated $200M+ to build. Big, big, huge difference.

 

Neither did SWTOR.

[Tuscad]

Considering that their lead combat desinger has never shipped a title (but hey she's hot ) I don't expect very much.

 

I'll give them the BOTD but I am still very cautious, to me the elder scrolls has always been about being that one person that changes the tide of the future and I just can't see an MMO capturing that feeling.

[Miallen]

In times on despair, someone has to blame it on something.

 

Im surprised he didnt blamed it on Canada!

 

We always blame Canada...we just don't always speak of it.

[Deewe]

So among the leads who's still in the boat:

 

• James Ohlen
  
• Daniel Erickson
  
• Gabe Amatangelo
  
• Emmanuel Lusinchi
  
• ...?
  

 

So far seems Emmanuel is the one that looks like the most knowledgeable about MMO in general.

He also got great communication skills. I like how he's honest about things and does not bull* people.

[AlyxDinas]

Sorry, I don't buy it. Not for one iota..

 

Which is your prerogative. But I merely am not a fan of assumptions without data. Particularly in a business where there's a lot of potential reasons for Vogel to move on.

[Ratham]

So among the leads who's still in the boat:

 

• James Ohlen
  
• Daniel Erickson
  
• Gabe Amatangelo
  
• Emmanuel Lusinchi
  
• ...?
  

 

So far seems Emmanuel is the one that looks like the most knowledgeable about MMO in general.

He also got great communication skills. I like how he's honest about things and does not bull* people.

 

Is clueless / inexperienced about pvp

[Jett-Rinn]

So among the leads who's still in the boat:

 

• James Ohlen
  
• Daniel Erickson
  
• Gabe Amatangelo
  
• Emmanuel Lusinchi
  
• ...?
  

 

So far seems Emmanuel is the one that looks like the most knowledgeable about MMO in general.

He also got great communication skills. I like how he's honest about things and does not bull* people.

 

I keep hearing that Mark Darrah may step into the role, Emmanuel Lusinchi would be a great choice as well.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Costello]

I can't understand all this restructuring.

 

The game is taking far far far too long to get new content out and yet they think cutting the staff and taking even longer to get content out is going to help things. EA are going to kill TOR by making it impossible for even fanbois to find something to do other than mindlessly grind out PvP death matches and to do that you may as well play a FPS.

[Blackardin]

Quick, fanboys assemble!

 

We need to make this look like a positive thing ASAP.

 

Nope, not this one. Just received like my 3rd or fourth infraction for attempting to defend this game. I've been tagged with "spam" warnings, "rudeness" warnings for doing little more then pointing out logical fallacies of some of the more extreme rants against this game....so I give up.

 

Though I enjoy it, I've just now come to the conclusion that there is something very wrong, very disjointed with this company. His leaving seems to be just one more symptom of a much larger problem.

[Qarran]

It's a fair question. But I've never given much credence to notions of corporate nefariousness in cases like this, even as much as I acknowledge the reality. This is a field in which a product is technically never "finished" and yet, to keep working on the singular product after release can be fatiguing creatively. I would wait to see what Vogel's next move is. It will inform us about his decision here more than any level of idle speculation.

 

You see? You can have a logical and well reasoned conversation in these forums.

 

So yes. I think you are absolutely right. In this business, after the product has been launched and is in sustaining, leadership and talent move on to bigger and greater. And if the company is in disarray, for whatever the reason, they have other options. Until recently, no one at BW had reason to leave. But now, uncertainty, new management and maybe a change in direction, give more than enough reason.

 

However, I don't think the scenarios of asking a high ranking exec to step down is really that nefarious. New leadership wants their team running the show. If they feel they have the talent, they move around the pieces until they find a team that is indebted and meets their needs.

 

We will be able to tell why Rich left in short order, but I do worry about the morale and confusion the reorgs cause at Bioware. Customers, and fans are not very understanding and the challenges of maintaining an MMO like SWTOR continue to mount.

[Tuscad]

I can't understand all this restructuring.

 

The game is taking far far far too long to get new content out and yet they think cutting the staff and taking even longer to get content out is going to help things.

It puts pressure on the remaining people, they now know if they don't deliver on time or fail to deliver at all that they are next. This Star Wars scene sums it up well

[Jett-Rinn]

Nope, not this one. Just received like my 3rd or fourth infraction for attempting to defend this game. I've been tagged with "spam" warnings, "rudeness" warnings for doing little more then pointing out logical fallacies of some of the more extreme rants against this game....so I give up.

 

Though I enjoy it, I've just now come to the conclusion that there is something very wrong, very disjointed with this company. His leaving seems to be just one more symptom of a much larger problem.

 

Yeah I can't disagree with you...I do think something is very wrong as well weather it's EA or Lucasarts I can't tell though.

 

One thing is for sure we will never get any communication about it.

[Blackardin]

Yeah I can't disagree with you...I do think something is very wrong as well weather it's EA or Lucasarts I can't tell though.

 

One thing is for sure we will never get any communication about it.

 

Sad really. I really do enjoy the game, but I just don't know....and you are correct, we may never know.

 

Makes me shake my head to see a product that has such potential being mismanaged into the ground.

[Logisitcs]

Nope, not this one. Just received like my 3rd or fourth infraction for attempting to defend this game. I've been tagged with "spam" warnings, "rudeness" warnings for doing little more then pointing out logical fallacies of some of the more extreme rants against this game....so I give up.

 

Though I enjoy it, I've just now come to the conclusion that there is something very wrong, very disjointed with this company. His leaving seems to be just one more symptom of a much larger problem.

 

I've received a grand total of SEVEN infractions and a warning defending this game from the very beginning and you know what it's embarrassing. I've said so many times if Rift can do what it did in a short period of time SWTOR and Bioware can too, boy how wrong I was. So I'm letting my sub run out August, I wasn't even a hater I loved this game. But EA along with Bioware just don't know what they're doing

[Muskaan]

 

One thing is for sure we will never get any communication about it.

 

EA Investor call in a few weeks. That is the best comm you will ever get. Should have new sub number.

 

Couple of startling pointers--

Bioware stall in SDCC was only running ME3 on their machines for multiplayer. No SWTOR.

 

This is a sad indicator that even within Bioware, SWTOR is not regarded highly as a project that has an opportunity of growth.

[Jett-Rinn]

EA Investor call in a few weeks. That is the best comm you will ever get. Should have new sub number.

 

Couple of startling pointers--

Bioware stall in SDCC was only running ME3 on their machines for multiplayer. No SWTOR.

 

This is a sad indicator that even within Bioware, SWTOR is not regarded highly as a project that has an opportunity of growth.

 

Or.....

 

"As we announced in May and detailed at E3, the BioWare Austin team is refining Star Wars: The Old Republic to continue to grow the game and the service.

 

As with the launch of any MMO, the size and skillset of the teams needed to maintain the game is different than the ones that built it. Starting in May, there have been staff reductions in the BioWare Austin studio. Some people have been platooned to other projects at BioWare Austin and EA SPORTS/Austin. Others have been released – qualifying personnel receive severance and outplacement assistance.

 

BioWare Austin is currently staffed to ensure the continued delivery of new, high quality game content for The Old Republic, and at a more frequent cadence. In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing The Old Republic with new content, new players and new ways to play.

 

They weren't ready to show people what they are working on

[Logisitcs]

Also things these guys say and do don't make sense.

Reasoning behind no Day/Night cycles

The planets are set in a specific time to convey the story of both the classes and world quests, to make a day/night cycle would be breaking the way the story is done., so the worlds have to be static

 

Yet I can make a Sith Mara and a Sith Jugg, make them father and son through Legacy and yet they experience the same story and go through Darth Baras. To me that's WORSE than having the day/night cycle ruin the continuity of the story.

 

These guys went on and on about Legacy touting it as the best, when really they should've been working on what makes Star Wars, Star Wars. The gambling, the pod-racing, the epic space battles, Padawan/Apprentice relationships and mentor systems, more social and rp features and better character customization, hell more fun! Instead they threw Legacy in our face and expected us to be grateful