Marauder / Sentinel Are Broken

[DevouringPlague]

throughout the entire beta marauder/sent have been known to be by far the weakest of all classes while also being the hardest to play.

 

bioware buffed them by giving them party buffs so people would actually invite them to groups, since they did low damage, were melee and squishy. they're basically a bard. this helps in pve, but in pvp the zen crap is almost worthless.

 

they did one thing good in giving them rebuke, which gives them 20% resistance for up to 30 seconds.

 

guardian/jugg are next on the buff list. hopefully they do a better job.

 

Pretty much this.

 

 

Well, stop sucking and you will realize youre playing the strongest Daage Dealer Ingame (with the possible exception of very skilled Snipers).

 

/edit Talking about Endgame, no one cares what a class can and cannot before Endgame...

 

Except for assassins, mercenaries, operatives, powertech, sorcerers...

[FatalWish]

I see no problems with marauder. Its just using your skills properly. I pull aggro like crazy in higher level flashpoints and have to camo out of it a lot and can solo anything that comes my way.

 

It is the hardest class to play, sure, but were certainly not broken.

[DevouringPlague]

I see no problems with marauder. Its just using your skills properly. I pull aggro like crazy in higher level flashpoints and have to camo out of it a lot and can solo anything that comes my way.

 

It is the hardest class to play, sure, but were certainly not broken.

 

That's your tank being terrible, not you being good.

[CrymzenSith]

It's just the wow mentality of these days. A class isn't as powerful as 2~3 other classes, even if it's not that much of a difference? BROKEN!

 

You need to put a bit more effort in to get to the same place as others? BROKEN!

 

Talent trees are kind of messy and don't make sense to a small group of people? BROKEN!

 

People are too used to the wow mentality, and don't know what it means for a class to ACTUALLY be broken any more. Every little dps/tank viability/pvp viability difference immediately means the class is BROKEN! these days.

 

i disagree...i played WoW for all of 2 days and hated it so i have no "wow mentality"

 

answer me this..why does my lvl 33 get destroyed by lvl 28-30 enemies? these are normal enemies..not silver or gold..either the classes are broken..or the enmies hit way too hard for their level..either way somethings broken and needs to be fixed.

 

this comment was brought to you by someone with a lack of "wow mentality"

 

EDIT: by the way im not the only one that thinks so, i play with other sentinels who agree with me..yeah im a relatively fresh MMO player but the guys i play with are pretty seasond MMO players, so you can go ahead and say im not using my class properly but what about them? the kind of people who took the time to figure out the best way to playe the class

Edited December 21, 2011 by CrymzenSith

[DevouringPlague]

i disagree...i played WoW for all of 2 days and hated it so i have no "wow mentality"

 

answer me this..why does my lvl 33 get destroyed by lvl 28-30 enemies? these are normal enemies..not silver or gold..either the classes are broken..or the enmies hit way too hard for their level..either way somethings broken and needs to be fixed.

 

this comment was brought to you by someone with a lack of "wow mentality"

 

It's because THEY HAVE SKILLZ. Skills that they never back up with figures, pictures, combat logs or anything, though.

[BKatt]

I will agree with most points (in a less whiny/WE'RE DOOMED tone).

 

Sith Marauders do feel very bleh, I feel as though all of my specs do the exact same thing with very little differences and the end result is lower DPS output compared to other classes. From what I was told we were actually godlike in the beta and overnerfed before the early access.

 

I don't want to be broken, I just want my class to have some unique talent trees that are fun, as it stands they're all the same and it feels boring, not to mention the sheer redundancy in my abilities. (The majority of my abilities are too similar to matter)

 

I completely agree with this. My Marauder is now 48, and it still feel as meh, as when i was level 20. My problem is mainly the talent trees aswell, they just dont make any sense, as there are no overall picture.

 

Surely the class aint broken, as it has the capabilities to do most if not all, what all the other classes can do. But it does feel extremely much of the same, from level 20 to 48, and after i tried the top class talent tree abilities, it felt even more MEH.

 

As also suggested, perhaps a rage spender ability(and ability that blows all your rage on a really neat attack + buff/debuff), thats various to your current spec ? Perhaps not the problem solver, but it could help spice things up alot.

[Munx]

My marauder I currently lvl 50, and The people who are noticing that the Marauder is generally under performing is absolutely correct, theres alot of reasons for this, and despite it being early these need to be looked at.

 

1: Bugged skills that refuse to go off, retaliation is the worst here, it bugs out prob around 8 out of 10 times, Its gotten so bad I've renamed the skill the "Tattoine Chickenwing".

Theres Also Ravage which frequently bugs out so that the damage cancels however the animations keeps going and is impossible to cancel.

 

2: Marauder dps vs other classes, in pvp.. People keept claiming Marauder came into its own at lvl 50, honestly.. No.. I wish this was true but its not, absolutely nothing changes.. If anything lvl 50 is worse because of the Absurd amount of abilities you have to juggle compared to other classes, which on top of this also have a far simpler energy system.

 

The Marauder lacks utility, BIG time.. am i expecting heals/tanking? of course not.. but the lack of CC given to the Marauder is a complete joke when you consider it has nothing else going for iteither, It does not have stealth, it does not have heavy armor, it does not have heals, and it does not have burst damage, we have sustained damage which is ok for pve, but it simply does not cut in pvp.

 

And don't even bring up force choke and intimidating roar, they are some of the worst stun skills in the game.

 

Force Choke is one of the only stuns that are channeled, which means it completly kills mobility when used, it also lasts shorter then most other stuns, not to mention it can be shortened by reciving damage, oh and your damage is severly limited when using it.

 

Intimidating roar has a long cooldown, the stun is pretty short, and more importantly the stun breaks on damage, which again makes this one of the worst stuns in the game.

 

In the end these rubbish skills are only good for giving the enemy free resolve.

 

3: Defensive skills that refuse to cancel out animations, a class as squishy as the marauder CANNOT afford its abilities to be so troublesome to activate, I can't tell you how many times I've basicly ended up spamming the Cloak of pain key only to see it blink without actually going off.

 

4: Some of the skills which should have been useful for marauder simply take to long to activate.. Gore, 100% armor penetration, this would be awesome if the animation wasnt so gosh darn slow that by the time its over you'll barely have the time to get a hit in before its gone.

 

Theres also Obfuscate which also has a animation that lasts to long for it to be as useful as it should.

 

 

 

Overall the Marauder have alot of issues atm, and people who don't play them need to stop using the marauders dmg ranking in pvp as "validation" for why they are not underpowered, Marauder is ONLY dps, and still it frequently gets out damaged, especially by one class is specific which I will refrain from mentioning to avoid being a complete "whiner"

 

The point is pvp is not all about damage, and while marauder can do ok on the damage scale, it does absolutely horribly on all other aspects.

 

No heals (obviously).

No surivability.

No Aoe.

And most importantly No useful CC.

 

 

The way the marauder is built I would honestly thought that they wouldve implented a system where marauder had a greater resistance or more cc breaking abilities, as the marauder in many way strikes me as a berserk sort of class, or it shouldve been anyways.

 

 

 

And lastely for the people who keep saying stuff such as, the marauder gets better at lvl 50, I am sorry have you played to level 50 as one and given pvp a good shake? No? Cause I have and what you are saying is both speculation and silly if you have no experience with it yourself.

 

Also it makes me grin when I see people say that marauders have the best dps beaten mabye only by snipers.

 

Have you even tried pvp? Snipers don't have as much dps as you might think, like us they frequently get dominated in dps by alot of the other classes, on the other hand the snipers have range and great utility, which is where some of the problem is, marauder does not.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Munx

[SunwindIon]

If you are doing lower DPS then anyone else that means you are not playing the class correctly. It is not Broken just because you have to be smarter then a pet rock to play it well.

 

If you want something that a drunk person on acid can master go back to play wow.

 

every time I see that avatar I know it's you posting incorrect things again

[Dedirtbag]

Only 2 things wrong with Marauders:

 

1 - Ravage is really buggy and half the time when activated will root you in place for the entire animation without the ability to cancel it, while doing no damage

 

2 - Apparently there is an army of scrubs who gravitated to the class and no find themselves begging for handouts from the devs

 

Marauders are BEASTLY for non-scrubs

[Munx]

I am god, there I said it so it must be "true".

 

how about you make some valids arguements as to why they are fine rather then just throwing around "Ahaha you are scrubs and are not playing it correctly"

 

If you got nothing with more substance then that to add to the discussion, then by all means feel free refrain from wasting space.

[Darth_Xzygy]

Played Marauder to 47 in beta. It was fine. Playing assassin now. There is very little difference in damage from what I can tell leveling up.

 

As assassin, I have a bit more CC, but I am way squishier.

 

Marauder comes into its own late in the tree, but is no slouch before that time. I had many a healer in pvp /laugh at me as I built full rage, then die in 5s.

 

You're doing it wrong.

[Derewen]

LOL and I thought we will be nerfed soon. There is not a single class that does any big trouble in 1v1 fight to us. And in group PvP we are also very practical. I must say I have tried many classes, but the best pvp is on sent/mar, you just need to think what will you use next...I honestly love this class and can't w8 to get 50.

 

PS: if you can't stand this class so much, just re-roll, you obviously don't know how to play this type of class. If you don't want to re-roll, try to find what are you doing wrong and learn new things.

[Fatty]

LOL and I thought we will be nerfed soon. There is not a single class that does any big trouble in 1v1 fight to us. And in group PvP we are also very practical. I must say I have tried many classes, but the best pvp is on sent/mar, you just need to think what will you use next...I honestly love this class and can't w8 to get 50.

 

PS: if you can't stand this class so much, just re-roll, you obviously don't know how to play this type of class. If you don't want to re-roll, try to find what are you doing wrong and learn new things.

 

^^This

 

If you cannot handle the skill cap required to be effective as a Marauder, please stop whining and re-roll. There are plenty of other classes with less complex skill-sets, and many of us that enjoy more complex classes do not want to see the class watered down.

 

To echo the comments from other posters, Marauders are not broken. If you are bad as a Marauder it is because you are doing it wrong. Marauders take a lot of skill to play well (more so than other classes from what I have seen), but a well played Marauder can be dominant.

 

In fairness, "skill" may be a big vague. When I say "skill" I effectively mean the ability to acquire and process large amounts of data in a very short amount of time (i.e. every GCD). To play a Marauder effectively (in PVP at least) you must be able to take into account a multitude of internal and external factors every GCD (plus several abilities off GCD) and make the right choice for your next ability (as well as being positioned correctly). There is most certainly no mindless rotation. You also need very efficient control techniques and key-bindings. I have 36 abilities bound to my Nostromo (including consumables), and I use them all regularly.

 

Also, more so than some of the other classes Marauders should keep a good awareness of the larger picture. Particularly the right targets to attack. But also, good exit strategies for when you get behind, i.e. the right timing and strategy to **** with force camo, undying rage, predation, force leap, etc.

 

I have about 25 hours logged of level 50 pvp on my Annihilation Marauder, and so far this is the most enjoyable class I have played in any game (after 9 years of MMO gaming).

 

Also, often overlooked - 20% healing debuff on a kill target is beast.

 

And also, Marauder + Healer = Savage Bliss

[Tazak]

I don't want to say learn to play, but that is basically what I am saying. The Sentinel / Marauder is a bit more difficult to pick up compared to the other classes but we are actually in an AMAZING spot. The Watchman / Annihilation trees are ridiculous and are easily overlooked because of the DOT aspect. They do more damage than both of the trees and provide you with healing.

 

We are also fantastic in PvP, hello? Only class with a healing debuff? People forget about that... Our single target burst is great, including the sustain I was talking about earlier. We can stick to a target very well with our movement impairs, movement speed buffs, and using Stasis / Leap properly. PvP for Sentinels / Marauders is all about using your CC breakers and damage reduction abilities at the right time.

 

At level 50, I'm currently doing the most damage out of the flashpoint groups we've had. I've been running Crit / Surge as my secondary stats for Watchman and it works out very well. I do agree though that we do have to shuffle more abilities around than other classes though.

 

The rotation for the tree is hard to pick up but is amazing once you get it down. You just need to practice it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Tazak

[Dedirtbag]

I am god, there I said it so it must be "true".

 

how about you make some valids arguements as to why they are fine rather then just throwing around "Ahaha you are scrubs and are not playing it correctly"

 

If you got nothing with more substance then that to add to the discussion, then by all means feel free refrain from wasting space.

 

is there an in-game key for taking screenshots? i've been printscreening but i'm not sure any of my screenshots are being saved.

 

if they are, ive got hundreds of consecutive warzone scoreboards that suggest not only are they fine, they are BEASTLY

[Teladis]

The class is pretty much trash, rage is the only good spec.

 

 

 

Too many bugs, weaker compare to other classes who offers more. The fury system is just bleh at best.

 

 

 

People who say it is fine, are just lying to themselves, or still in the 20s. When I watch other classes do so much and take out everything while I can't have take out 1 without coming close to death, I wonder what the devs is thinking.

[Tazak]

People who say it is fine, are just lying to themselves, or still in the 20s. When I watch other classes do so much and take out everything while I can't have take out 1 without coming close to death, I wonder what the devs is thinking.

 

I can tell you that at 50, we are not weak at all. I cannot see what all the fuss is about. Are single target damage is amazing, almost too good to be honest. No one has really seemed to out damage me at this level. PvP yields great awesomeness in terms of how easy it is to dispatch of people and stay alive at the same time.

 

If anything, Bioware needs to make the early game for the Sentinel / Marauder a bit better as that's where people seem to be having the most issues. I can guarantee you though, at 50, it is MUCH better. Even though I had little to no issues with the class at lower levels either.

 

Here is a recording I did of a flashpoint at 50 two nights ago.

 

Skip to 25:00 if you want to see a Sentinel's damage on a single-target.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Tazak

[FobManX]

Watchman Sentinels(and their Sith counterparts)are probably the best sustained single target DPS in the game.

[LiquidSwordx]

The biggest issue i see with marauder is that we are just to squishy. When i fight certain silver mobs, they take 75% of my health with one shot. This isn't an issue of me sucking, or not having a rotation, or trying to QQ and make it easy mode. I literally can't get more than 2-3 skills off before a single silver mob kills me in 1-2 seconds. Edited December 23, 2011 by LiquidSwordx

[Tazak]

The biggest issue i see with marauder is that we are just to squishy. When i fith certain silver mobs, they take 75% of my health with one shot. This isn't an issue of me sucking, or not having a rotation, or trying to QQ and make it easy mode. I literally can't get more than 2-3 skills off before a single silver mob kills me in 1-2 seconds.

 

We are really really companion reliant. We are really required to use a tank or healing companion which does limit us hard unfortunately.

[Munx]

Thats exactly it isnt, you are using the damage as the only factor in considering sucsess.. that there is a major flaw.. Pvp is not a contest to see who can get the most damage. It is objective based, and as such the lack of CC marauder has becomes a problem.

 

And while a marauder CAN potentialy have the highest damage at the end of a pvp match, there are other classes which are much more frequently holds that spot.

 

Also for people who come in saying theres NOTHING wrong with the marauders? that simply is not true at all, wether you disagree or agree about marauder being slightly less "balanced" then other classes, you would have to be pretty dense to ignore problems such as the Ravage bug, or the retaliation issue.

 

And as I mentioned theres also the problem of trying to activate our life saving abilities while in the heat of battle, since they refuse to cancel combat animations.

 

 

And Have I ever gotten first dps wise in a warzone? of course I have, but like I said, warzones is not entirely about dps, infact dps is just a very small part of it.

 

As for the Healing Debuff, 20% is nice but in pugs its hardly a game changer.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Munx

[Tazak]

Thats exactly it isnt, you are using the damage as the only factor in considering sucsess.. that there is a major flaw.. Pvp is not a contest to see who can get the most damage. It is objective based, and as such the lack of CC marauder has becomes a problem.

 

And while a marauder CAN potentialy hit have the highest damage at the end of a pvp match, there are other classes which are much more frequently holds that spot.

 

Also for people who come in saying theres NOTHING wrong with the marauders? that simply is not true at all, wether you disagree or agree about marauder being slightly less "balanced" then other classes, you would have to be pretty dense to ignore problems such as the Ravage bug, or the retaliation issue.

 

And as I mentioned theres also the problem of trying to activate our life saving abilities while in the heat of battle, since they refuse to cancel combat animations.

 

 

And Have I ever gotten first dps wise in a warzone? of course I have, but like I said, warzones is not entirely about dps, infact dps is just a very small part of it.

 

As for the Healing Debuff, 20% is nice but in pugs its hardly a game changer.

 

It is definitely a game changer! Throwing on that healing debuff onto a healer or their main damage dealers makes all the difference in the world! Not to mention only in Hutt ball. Also what a lot of people seem to be doing is not trying to coordinate enough with their teams. I know it's hard to get puggies to focus but it is totally doable. Just lay out a plan for the Warzone and coordinate who goes where and just stay in communication!

 

I strongly feel that if we get any extra form of Crowd Control or Defense we will be too strong, and I don't want to see what happens to so many classes in other MMOs where they were weak, then they became strong, then they became even weaker than before because they were too strong.

 

I don't want to post screens of my Warzone games as they really don't hold a bearing, but it's not difficult to pull of highest Damage / Objective / Medals, etc. That's I guess not even part of the conversation.

 

Our class, I believe, is in a VERY good place. I just don't think people who do believe this will be able to convince everyone else other wise...

[Norumaniac]

I lvled a Jedi Shadow and Sith Marauder to 16, so i dont have much experience. BUT:

 

 

- Jedi Shadow was easier to lvl (maybe cause of the companion?). It throws stuff at ppl with the force. IMHO it feels like a Enh Shaman with some Rogue stuff, and not the other way.

 

- The Marauder (and Sentinel) looks much cooler, the abilities are flashy and you are a pure dps class. Plus, they get Camouflage at 30 if im not mistaken. I dig all those things.

 

Remember, the only thing that matters in a MMORPG is:

 

Looking cool.

 

 

So the Marauder wins. Flawless victory.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Norumaniac

[Ohoni]

The things I want to see out of the Sentinel:

 

1. A "finesse" tree that functions as an off-tank/control tree. You wouldn't do as much damage as the pure DPS tree, but you'd be more survivable than any other DPS, and be able to clean up messes in a group situation. It would be designed around single target CC effects, temporary defensive screens, increased counter-attack capability, etc. This would be the warrior that effortlessly weaves through enemies and casually knocks their weapons aside, the controlled master of his art, but without the raw power and violence of the other set.

 

2. An AoE damage tree, designed around sweeping two-bladed strikes that take full advantage of a dual-wielder's reach. It would include forms in which all attacks hit in a cone pattern, and several attacks hit in a PBAoE, and would be designed to whittle away at everyone around you at once.

 

3. More maneuverability. Sentinels should be able to perma-lunge, lunge whenever and wherever they like. You should never have to jog during combat as a Sentinel, the instant you kill something you should be able to lunge to the next attacker. Actually, that would be a good condition for it, as people in the past have complained that having perma-lunge would prevent people from perma-kiting Sentinels in PvP, and that this would in some way be a bad thing, make it so that the ability can only be used within several seconds of having registered a kill. Alternately just have it so that making a kill ends Force Leap's cooldown.

 

That way, if you were fighting a pack of three spread out enemies, you could Force Leap one, kill him, lunge to the next, kill him, lunge to the next, and kill him, but if you were in PvP and you Force Leaped but were pushed away somehow, you would not be able to use this other lunge to close the distance immediately. If Sentinels are meant to be worthless from a distance, then they need to be able to close to melee as early and often as possible.

[Tamas]

If you played only sentinel/marauder and have mmo experience you might think it's an "ok" class. If you roll another class and see how easy it is to do better with it, you won't go back to Sentinel/Marauder. The AC can't do anything better than any other existing class and does not bring anything useful to the group apart 15% buff once every 5 mins. Some say it's a glass canon - yes it's glass, but every other class does same or better dps. Take Commando as an example or sage/assassin - far better survivability while dealing superior damage and providing debuffs on the target, ability to off heal or do massive damage.

 

The class is not fine when you compare it to other classes. I doubt many want to play a class the requires you to get epic 50lvl gear just to be on par with other classes decked out in greens/blue.