Kheg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Preface: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... a bunch of angry PvP'ers critted this thread with flames for 80-bazillion damage and told the RP'er to go away. I'm not an RP'er. That said, hear me out Deckard Cain style. Yes, sit right there and listen for a while. PvP in SWTOR is the only MMORPG PvP I have found tolerable in pretty much ever. Originally it started out pretty well balanced, the classes did what they were supposed to do and things were fun. Then people whined because, well, the mechanics favored certain tactics and lets face it - people prefer to KILL other people, not be the ones being killed. Hence the race for FOTM starts, and balance whining starts and we get into this sort of arms race if you will. Game mechanics change, for better or worse, and devs go off the deep end trying to balance and rebalance PvP, then PvE which breaks PvP which requires rebalancing which rebreaks PvE so on and so forth ad infinitum. So here we are, the land of 8k crits and massive sustained damage in a game where the background history involves lots of cover fire, saber duels that involved a great deal of dodging, parrying and acrobatics. A game where a single player is capable of being a one man wrecking crew against other players that are (in theory) supposed to be his or her equal. I know this isn't the movies, and some of you don't care about the history of this game (though I seriously doubt that's true), but those one man wrecking crew Sith and Jedi had a tendency to be just that against the cannon fodder of the world. I submit to you - granted some of you really do play as is you are nothing more than cannon fodder, and I to am guilty as charged on occasion - players are not the cannon fodder of the game. We are those that should be representative of those opening cinematics of the game: A long, protracted battle that involves one or more individuals with exceptional skills able to take or avoid excessive amounts of punishment. Excessive. Amounts. of PUNISHMENT. Not be felled in 2 global cooldowns. That 8k crit that takes me down? I want that to be that mountain being leveled on me. I want that to be your lightsaber running me through after having used everything at my disposal to keep you at bay for the past five minutes, and I have nothing left to fight with. No. Not another couple crits and yet another respawn. This formula is getting tired. It's spinning ridiculously out of control in SWTOR. One shouldn't have exactly 2 to 3 seconds of viable combat between spawns in a warzone. We're about 1 GCD away from 1-shot instagibs on some classes. I'm sure there are some that will think that this is appropriately fun. So be it. Disclaimer: I have played em all, if not to 50, to the mid/upper 40's. I don't roll FOTM, I play for fun. I don't hardcore PvP, but I know my role, my class's role and my team's role. I know what gear is, what it is to be geared and undergeared. I play warzones as objective based team games, not team deathmatch games - unless of course I'm on a team that doesn't give a crap and refuses to listen to reason. I won't say I'm great, I won't say I'm even good. I'm at least competent. Everybody has those "derp" moments. Edited July 13, 2012 by Kheg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Pre-1.2 we had Healfest. Teams with 2+ healers in them were basically un-killable and healers were Godmode. Now we have Zergfest where everyone can die in 5 seconds. There's a lot of inflating numbers on the forums, but in actual combat, the TTK is significantly less than it was before. I'm hoping that the next PvP "balance" will actually be a real balance between the two extremes that we've had so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) another thread about 8k crits that dont happen...let alone twice in a row (which still wont kill most people, as they have more than 16k health) Edited July 13, 2012 by Khoraji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) another thread about 8k crits that dont happen...let alone twice in a row (which still wont kill most people, as they have more than 16k health) They do happen, far more than you think. Regardless, 4k crits, 5k, 6k it's all ridiculously out of hand. The simple point is there's a lot more running back from spawn than there is actual engaging meaningful combat going on. Hence, you're missing the point, as I expected most people to. Edited July 13, 2012 by Kheg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 They do happen, far more than you think. Regardless, 4k crits, 5k, 6k it's all ridiculously out of hand. The simple point is there's a lot more running back from spawn than there is actual engaging meaningful combat going on. Hence, you're missing the point, as I expected most people to. No, they dont. And there is still more fighting than re spawning if you have any decent healers with you. But your main point is you think TTK is too short am I right? I guess thats cool but its just opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StDogbert Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 They do happen, far more than you think. Regardless, 4k crits, 5k, 6k it's all ridiculously out of hand. The simple point is there's a lot more running back from spawn than there is actual engaging meaningful combat going on. Hence, you're missing the point, as I expected most people to. Screenshot please of 8K crit or didn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 No, they dont. And there is still more fighting than re spawning if you have any decent healers with you. But your main point is you think TTK is too short am I right? I guess thats cool but its just opinion. As I said in the original post, there are going to be those that are of the opinion that "ooh a 1-shot instagib definitely does have it's place in the game!" I'm inclined to believe you're one of those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtBranham Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Screenshot please of 8K crit or didn't happen http://i.imgur.com/datDs.jpg Not mine but linked From Po5 server page for illustration sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 As I said in the original post, there are going to be those that are of the opinion that "ooh a 1-shot instagib definitely does have it's place in the game!" I'm inclined to believe you're one of those people. Show me a class that, when hitting an equally geared class, can 1 shot people .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/datDs.jpg Not mine but linked From Po5 server page for illustration sake. I was expecting a Marauder, PT, or Sniper ... But a Sorc? Really? I'm almost fully geared WH and I don't ever break the 5k range o.O At least ... against other people in PvP gear o.O Edited July 13, 2012 by Daikeru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/datDs.jpg Not mine but linked From Po5 server page for illustration sake. Sorc? Oh yea their burst really needs a nerf...lols. Either a glitch or a Photoshop. The guy did 181k total dmg for god's sake. If he was getting 9k+ crits you would think it would be a bit higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I was expecting a Marauder, PT, or Sniper ... But a Sorc? Really? I'm almost fully geared WH and I don't ever break the 5k range o.O At least ... against other people in PvP gear o.O That is an assassin. Shock and the proc from it are probably calculated as 1 hit. With full gear and expertise buff you can do that to a low geared player. My guess is tank assassin in dps spec with energize and recklessness charge +expertise buff. Edited July 13, 2012 by Dmasterr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 That is an assassin. ahh, yea true. but still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) That is an assassin. My apologies, they get the same picture o.O Still ... Relic pop, PvP Adrenal, WZ buff. Only way I could think they could hit that high ... Maybe the guy was also in PvE gear? The Relic, PvP adren and WZ buff have all been changed now though ... Edited July 13, 2012 by Daikeru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 As I said in the original post, there are going to be those that are of the opinion that "ooh a 1-shot instagib definitely does have it's place in the game!" I'm inclined to believe you're one of those people. Lol, you just lost all credibility. Nothing in this game is one-shotting...or even 2 shotting...or even 3 shotting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lol, you just lost all credibility. Nothing in this game is one-shotting...or even 2 shotting...or even 3 shotting people. Thta means there's 4 shotting!! WOAH! =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Thta means there's 4 shotting!! WOAH! =P ZOMG and thats only with 4 HUGE crits in a row. Edited July 13, 2012 by Khoraji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikeru Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ZOMG and thats only with 4 crits in a row. Oh no!! I should reroll immediately!! 100% Crit WOAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Lol, you just lost all credibility. Nothing in this game is one-shotting...or even 2 shotting...or even 3 shotting people. I never said there is anything 1-shotting. I did say we're not too far away with the direction the devs are going with this though. 3 shotting? I've been on the receiving end of that, many times, thanks. I've also been on the giving end a few times too. Edited July 13, 2012 by Kheg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I never said there is anything 1-shotting. I did say we're not too far away with the direction the devs are going with this though. 3 shotting? I've been on the receiving end of that, many times, thanks. I've also been on the giving end a few times too. Really? 3 6k crits in a row huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meanerr Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) That image was from a Ranked warzone (notice the +7 to the ranking), no relics, no adrenals. Yes, big hits still happen, but they only happen once in awhile, not all the time like how people keep exaggerating. Should they happen? Maybe, it's debatable. Should TTK be higher? Again, debatable, but we might go back to where objectives never changed hands and people QQ'd hard about that too. ps I rather Devs look at adjusting the DR curves on Expertise first before doing any more nerfing/buffing. There's enough nerfs/buffs as it is. Edited July 13, 2012 by Meanerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy_anderson Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I never said there is anything 1-shotting. I did say we're not too far away with the direction the devs are going with this though. 3 shotting? I've been on the receiving end of that, many times, thanks. I've also been on the giving end a few times too. I find that last statement hard to believe. If you get three shotted by any class, you lack gear/stats. If you lack gear/stats, you aren't going to be three shotting anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthbaan Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Once of the guild my toons are in ran with 3 rage juggs and we sumultaneously smashed an entire group at the begininng of a voidstar and killed 3 people outright... that was fun and my biggest hit was before the transfers but it was on HoG for 8.3k http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/gallery/146657/screenshot_2012-05-17_21_52_21_719070987Pop.jpg Edited July 13, 2012 by Darthbaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Snipers can put out 5K+3K back to back. If it's within o,5 seconds it doesnt matter muh if it was one or two hits, the result will be the same. I've seen this in the 1-49 bracket too and that's totally over the top. As a WH sorc it's not unusual that I'm taking hits in the 5K range several times per game from more than one class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I find that last statement hard to believe. If you get three shotted by any class, you lack gear/stats. If you lack gear/stats, you aren't going to be three shotting anyone. Whether or not you can be 3 shot, I know people are hitting 1,800 to 1,900 DPS (actual DPS) in PvE. How this translates to PvP I am not sure but lets take this example. You Have 18,000 Health. You are getting attacked by soemone who can do 1,500 DPS. Your life expectancy is 12 seconds sans healing. How long can you spend in the penalty box? 20 Seconds? Cut the 12 seconds in half if your being atatcked by 2 people, half again if a third joins in etc. Whether or not you agree or disagree that TTK is too short it has become shorter. The game is DPS centric and if you have more you win. There is very little strategy beyond basic CC and focus this class first. Some people like (including myself) a more strategic game to a gibfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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