RUMOUR Alert!!!

[Hardwear]

Sorry to say this but, this game will go F2P sooner or later.

 

Maybe until the end of this year they will have something to say about the F2P model, depending on how GW2 performs.

 

And thats the only way im coming back to this game: if it goes F2P.

 

If anyone likes to pay for this game, send letters with money inside to EA, im sure they will love it

 

Im not paying $15 per month to an incomplete MMO that makes u wait like a monk for 6 months for things that should have been in the game since the very beginning (like the damn transfers and the "look for noob" tool).

 

And dont give me that "oh but this is a new game, give it some time"...thats fanboy crap.

 

This is not philanthropy, its business: if u pay for an MMO (plus, one that carries the SW name on it) u expect to receive something at least as complete as any MMO out there, not a half-made amateur crap.

 

The leveling was awesome, the main storylines were great and the voice acting excelent.,,and thats it....thats all SWTOR has.

 

If i knew this, i would have voted for a KOTOR 3 game instead, cuz thats whats BW is REALLY good at: making single player RPG´s....thats crystal clear to me now.

 

#gof2p

 

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for ToR to go F2P just go ahead and play your GW2 and be happy.

[Tuscad]

cuz thats whats BW is REALLY good at: making single player RPG´s....thats crystal clear to me now.

 

I raise you Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Every game that Bioware has released 2011 onwards has recieved widely mixed reception instead of the old positive reception come to think of it.

[Iggster]

EA sports has known nothing but success. Maybe a shakeup is just what EA needs.

 

It seems the key to success is repetition. Slap out a new game each year from your franchise with just a few minor tweaks and improvements.

 

Works for EA Sports titles. Works for Call of Duty.

 

I just hope that if he does get the promotion he remembers that EA does have other games on the market.

Also I hope he decides that The Old Republic should be put higher on EA's priorities than Sim City.

 

All that being said.... This is just a rumour

[Senatsu]

Maybe Bioware should separate from EA and run this game themselves or hand over the publishing to SEGA

 

BioWare will end up becoming bankrupt from buying out of EA's contracts.

[Hardwear]

I raise you Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Every game that Bioware has released 2011 onwards has recieved widely mixed reception instead of the old positive reception come to think of it.

 

 

In the age of social networking where everyone and their mother has a blog, twitter, or facebook account and almost every website has a forum.

 

.."mixed reception" can be misleading

Edited July 13, 2012 by Hardwear

[Comstrike]

A subscription model is better for an mmo that spends more time on developing big updates over small ones, if a content patch is only directed at a specific group only that specific group will buy it, a subscription base allows for a better balance between all aspects of content and greater profit as no part of the game gets more content developed over another aspect from a profit standpoint as the subscription stance pays for all aspects of content development.

 

Thus in the long term subscription based will pay more then a f2p model in the long run. They key to understand is that micro transaction for service and payed content via download packs are different beasts.

 

With respect, subscription based MMORPGs plan future content based on budgets. If fewer and fewer people play, there is less and less to spend on new development. This remains a business, and just running it because you can break even, won't do. EA is factually under pressure from their stock holders. The analysts were cutting into EA two years ago, because this game was burning so much cash. Now, they have almost certainly gained most of the production cost back from retail sales of the game. Even a weak subscription base, after 8 months, puts SWTOR firmly in the black, unless they uttelry screwed all things up.

 

But this game very simply did not become what EA seems obsessed with, that is, an Activision killer. When they finally do fire the current CEO, if they haven't given him notice already, the next one will be expected to do more than just harvest cash from dwindling subs here. You simply, as a company, can't look at a LOTRO and not say, "wow, that is a ton of cash sitting on the table."

 

I respect people who put rational thought into building an argument against this game for to MTs and "F2P models. However, I very honestly feel it was going to go to a model with MTs since before launch. For many reasons already baked into the game today. I am beyond convinced that will happen now. Not that I don't respect people, if not their point of view, who don't want MTs, I for one want them and look forward to them.

 

And I would remain fully subscribed. I would also likely drop another couple of hundred on the game.

[Tuscad]

In the age of social networking where everyone and their mother has a blog, twitter, or facebook account and almost every website has a forum.

 

.."mixed reception" can be misleading

 

mixed reception was a polite way of saying dead panned by critics and player alike, the only exception to that is SWTOR which hasn't been dead panned as far as I know, but has received a range of different reviews. I remember back in the days of Kotor they got postive reviews, same for Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins.

[Shingara]

With respect, subscription based MMORPGs plan future content based on budgets. If fewer and fewer people play, there is less and less to spend on new development. This remains a business, and just running it because you can break even, won't do. EA is factually under pressure from their stock holders. The analysts were cutting into EA two years ago, because this game was burning so much cash. Now, they have almost certainly gained most of the production cost back from retail sales of the game. Even a weak subscription base, after 8 months, puts SWTOR firmly in the black, unless they uttelry screwed all things up.

 

But this game very simply did not become what EA seems obsessed with, that is, an Activision killer. When they finally do fire the current CEO, if they haven't given him notice already, the next one will be expected to do more than just harvest cash from dwindling subs here. You simply, as a company, can't look at a LOTRO and not say, "wow, that is a ton of cash sitting on the table."

 

I respect people who put rational thought into building an argument against this game for to MTs and "F2P models. However, I very honestly feel it was going to go to a model with MTs since before launch. For many reasons already baked into the game today. I am beyond convinced that will happen now. Not that I don't respect people, if not their point of view, who don't want MTs, I for one want them and look forward to them.

 

And I would remain fully subscribed. I would also likely drop another couple of hundred on the game.

 

And with respect the same stance works for F2P, the only difference is prospected future profit prejections based on what sells to budgets created from a subscription based number of players currently within the system. Everyone that is playing a subscription based game are paying, everyone playing in a f2p mmo arnt and only a % of that playerbase will actualy purchase.

 

To that this game right now is bigger then ea expected which is evident with how the servers were swamped on release, what they have now to what they have this time next year are different things and the view of what they expect will be calculated in based upon what they have in development right now. This was never intended to be a wow killer, to be such would require a different company to run it in china which is never going to happen when it comes to terms of EA and Lucas.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Hardwear]

mixed reception was a polite way of saying dead panned by critics and player alike, the only exception to that is SWTOR which hasn't been dead panned as far as I know, but has received a range of different reviews. I remember back in the days of Kotor they got postive reviews, same for Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins.

 

Mass Effect 3 had a 90+ Metacratic score, but my point was that in this age of social networking everyone has the opportunity to add their 2 cents whereas games in the past were not subject to this wide range of scrutiny.

[Tuscad]

Mass Effect 3 had a 90+ Metacratic score, but my point was that in this age of social networking everyone has the opportunity to add their 2 cents whereas games in the past were not subject to this wide range of scrutiny.

 

The user reviews are 5.1 http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/mass-effect-3/user-reviews, I see your point though.

[Hardwear]

The user reviews are 5.1 http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/mass-effect-3/user-reviews, I see your point though.

 

I think my biggest problem with user reviews sometimes is that, because people have personal agendas as opposed to being fair and objective it's almost impossible to depend on them as a gauge.

 

As an example on the same site CoD Black Ops had around the same user score as ME2 and a lower critic review, but, as we all know CoD made like a bazillion dollars and will again when they release the new cut & paste.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Hardwear

[Ansalem]

f2p here we come.

[Comstrike]

And with respect the same stance works for F2P, the only difference is prospected future profit prejections based on what sells to budgets created from a subscription based number of players currently within the system. Everyone that is playing a subscription based game are paying, everyone playing in a f2p mmo arnt and only a % of that playerbase will actualy purchase.

 

To that this game right now is bigger then ea expected which is evident with how the servers were swamped on release, what they have now to what they have this time next year are different things and the view of what they expect will be calculated in based upon what they have in development right now. This was never intended to be a wow killer, to be such would require a different company to run it in china which is never going to happen when it comes to terms of EA and Lucas.

 

Good to have a conversation and not a fight on the topic.

 

The game certainly has recouped the production costs from retail sales. Without question, even in the worse possible case I can envision, the game has enough to cover expenses. So I would say there is no panic as such. I think we would both agree, there is surely a great deal of pre-existing content which is basically on the shelf, in various stages of production. Accordingly, they can go some time by just spooling that out. Likewise, I'll agree, despite the hype, they did not truly think this was going to instantly kill WoW, or more than challenge it in a few years.

 

Yet, they did buy and incorporate software to handle MTs and account services, and bake the system into the core game client and servers. We already saw with the security key fobs and CE, that they were willing to put "exclusive" stuff out there.

 

I think the subscription basis for the game, now, was basically a money-grab. They "knew" the game would at least run a year or two, and at some latter point, they could flip the switch, revive the game, and milk it for even more money. What has changed, is that I believe the game has not proven as big a hit as they hoped. Even if it is likely larger than expected, this has gone far worse than the Warhammer launch for EA, and is at least seriously brusing to Bioware's reputation. Far far more was pinned on this game not just doing OK, but doing VERY well. And it hasn't.

 

We can disagree about what extent it did or did not do well for EA, it is to me a lesser point. My feeling, and I do respect yours, is that MTs at least, are a given in this game. And I actually think the sharp drop in subscribers, the drama going on among the players, etc, make doing it sooner better than waiting. I say that, because in bean counter lingo, it is better to just "take a bath," and get it all done quickly. The game has good bones. And they need to get things moving forward content wise.

 

I actually think we aren't seeing more content rolled out, because they are still revamping existing content to fit a F2P/MT model, not just the Free-to15 model that is now live. They are stalling for time.

 

We don't know. So it goes. But I think we'll find out in weeks, or months. But before the end of the year.

[Shingara]

Good to have a conversation and not a fight on the topic.

 

 

The game certainly has recouped the production costs from retail sales. Without question, even in the worse possible case I can envision, the game has enough to cover expenses. So I would say there is no panic as such. I think we would both agree, there is surely a great deal of pre-existing content which is basically on the shelf, in various stages of production. Accordingly, they can go some time by just spooling that out. Likewise, I'll agree, despite the hype, they did not truly think this was going to instantly kill WoW, or more than challenge it in a few years.

 

Yet, they did buy and incorporate software to handle MTs and account services, and bake the system into the core game client and servers. We already saw with the security key fobs and CE, that they were willing to put "exclusive" stuff out there.

 

I think the subscription basis for the game, now, was basically a money-grab. They "knew" the game would at least run a year or two, and at some latter point, they could flip the switch, revive the game, and milk it for even more money. What has changed, is that I believe the game has not proven as big a hit as they hoped. Even if it is likely larger than expected, this has gone far worse than the Warhammer launch for EA, and is at least seriously brusing to Bioware's reputation. Far far more was pinned on this game not just doing OK, but doing VERY well. And it hasn't.

 

We can disagree about what extent it did or did not do well for EA, it is to me a lesser point. My feeling, and I do respect yours, is that MTs at least, are a given in this game. And I actually think the sharp drop in subscribers, the drama going on among the players, etc, make doing it sooner better than waiting. I say that, because in bean counter lingo, it is better to just "take a bath," and get it all done quickly. The game has good bones. And they need to get things moving forward content wise.

 

I actually think we aren't seeing more content rolled out, because they are still revamping existing content to fit a F2P/MT model, not just the Free-to15 model that is now live. They are stalling for time.

 

We don't know. So it goes. But I think we'll find out in weeks, or months. But before the end of the year.

 

Well i also believe they have recovered all moneys at this point and all moneys coming in now simply pay towards licensing, staffing costs, server costs ( which they are bringing down by restructuring servers to be more efficient) and future content development and moneys it costs to advertise and shows.

 

The infrastructure to the game that you are refering to when it comes to fluff like the ce is obviousy a gimick to gain extra money, thats the whole reason behind a collectors edition in any game, for what it stands for i think the ce for swtor was incredible value for money, a statue, book, soundtrack etc that is real and then virtual items like the stap, mini pet and a vendor to get extra stuff from is immense when compared to other games who simply throw a book, a soundtrack and a flashy box with sometimes having an ingame mount or pet and thats it.

 

The security key vendor is something i cannot understand hasnt been done before, its an incentive to actualy put extra security on your account and you dont have to pay a penny for it, you can get it for your phone for free.

 

I dont think the subscription base for this game is a money grab, its obviously the platform for financing future content and upkeep of the game whilst gaining profits for the game but i honestly cannot see how simply flipping a switch and making it f2p would make profit, its not as simple as that, they would have to totaly restructure how content is handled, whats free and whats not. How they would price content and how would the charge for fluff and for actual playable content. Also wishing for it isnt a good thing as it could end up costing you alot more to actualy play the game for what we would have got within the subscription model.

 

WoW has the wierdest subscription base i have ever seen, it makes a fortune on fluff which in all intensive purposes should be part of your subscription and at the same time charges the earth for functions within the account like char migration, renaming, faction changing and are now even dabbling in real money auction house. They act like a F2P game but with a subscription, they have huge content draughts which to me have never stood upto the subscription model.

 

Then we have to look at some facts, SOE wanted to change swg to f2p and lucas flat out rejected it, we also have warhammer, in all relative terms of what people are throwing about that should have gone f2p but it has not. EA flat out refuses to make it f2p along with other mmos in there stable and if any game in there stable were togo f2p that would be it. I think the only f2p mmo in ea's stable is infact need for speed worlds which was built and designed as a f2p and costs them a fortune.

 

Also the trial isnt stalling for time, its the industry standard now amongst subscription based mmos, a free trial upto a set level thats capped to hook people in, its good buisness sense. The more people you can get in the door to taste test the more people you will have that buy the game, it beats having games sitting on shelves and hoping that advertisement and word of mouth will make people dig in there pockets to try a product.

 

I agree with you also in the fact that i think MT's are going to be here, be it xfers, name changes and ingame fluff to raise cash for charitys which ea have done before in other games, i cant see it being priced anywhere as harsh as blizzards though. I think races wont be MT's though and they will be gained ingame somehow or simply unlocked to us an option.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Comstrike]

I don't think Lucas rejected SOE going free to play, as much as they simply intended to kill the game and purge Sony from the MMO end of things. I think the end of SWG was written, if not spoken off, years ago, and this game was the key to that. As such, I can't agree that the option of making SWG F2P was really out there. There was that last push by players to convince Sony, but then that is like people here trying to get paid transfers and saving specific servers. Makes headlines, but doesn't ever actually influence anything.

 

I might rephrase my use of the term money grab, to being something they simply plan to ride until it hits a point, and that is it.

 

WoW is a game at this point, that I don't know can or should even be put out there as some kind of model or point of comparison. It is the beast, the massive fluke. The entire industry is trying to figure itself out right now. As for this game? Honestly I don't know if they can do more than occupy a small niche at the rate things are going. People WANT fluff, they will pay for it. And what the drop in subscriptions has done, is greatly accelerate the process of getting to there. EA won't stand on principle. And there continues to be the example of a LOTRO out there to buffer concerns the company or Lucas might have.

 

We'll see. Above all else, I have to wonder why else there is the curious silence from Austin. Something is being retooled. They clearly seem to be in a reset mode right now. They have their roadmap for 2012, but I think it is what goes down at the end of 2013 that is yet to be announced.

 

At one point, they spoke of having content updates every two months, with major content updates every six months, and a major expansion at the end of the year. They can't even consider a retail expansion under the current circumstances. So they have to get the house in order before they can expect people to pay-out. The distance between where the game stands now, and where they need to be to continue expanding, that is a long way.

[FourTwent]

I think they do care. If the f2p option brings in fewer dollars than the paid sub model they wouldn't go for it. They'll go with whatever earns them more profit. So, yes, they do care.

 

but lucas arts wont really have anything to do with it. I'm sure they have a set fee that they're charging for the IP. As long as they get the money, they dont care. And if they dont get the money, the game is dead.

 

So it would be up to bioware to be able to bring in enough money via a f2p model to pay for the IP as well as pay for the developers to make new content. nothing more

[Shingara]

for the thing you state about soe, its flawed what you say because if lucas wanted to kill swg they could have simply taken the license away at any time. And your right people want fluff and people are getting fluff, they are even supposidly even getting an entire patch of fluff/social stuff.

 

To the subscription numbers, if you actualy look at the financial reports they dont show any drop, now hang with me on this one cos its like this. At the 1st count there were 1.7 mil playing, now a % of those were still in there 1st month, now if you look at the second report that stated that the subscriptions had increased and were at 1.3 mil. That means that a % of the people in there 1st month didnt subscribe so thats not a lose of subscribers thats just the people who didnt like the game.

 

When we get the next count we can see if the subs have gone up or down but anything over a mil is good. Now we have to look into the future and why some didnt activate subscriptions, Space is one of the reasons. A space update is coming, others didnt like the endgame content that was here and thats being built upon and Makeb is coming. Some stopped because ranked wasnt in 1.2, thats here now.

 

Beyond that there were alot of people who never played a subscription based mmo before and simply followed the star wars ip to here, some from kotor others who simply know the name. so if they didnt subscribe its no biggie in the grand scheme of things, they could come back or they couldnt.

 

With the game going into more territorys and with such a strong ip there is no reason to think this game wont grow, but even if it just stays above 1 mil subs its still in a strong position to build upon with future content releases.

 

BTW if EA really want to beat Bliz they can do it now simply by buying them.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Moaky]

I agree with success. But you cannot dispute the decline of the quality of Madden since EA got exclusive rights to the NFL.

 

EA has exclusive rights to college football, and those have been some great games.

[TheronFett]

This game is rapidly heading down the same path as SWG and SOE. Eminent fail on the horizon.

[macumba]

I am totally not in for sports games, but doesn't ea sports just resell the same game over and over only replacing the shirts and tuning the visuals here and there ?

 

I agree with the OP the devil you know might be better than the one you don't. in my eyes they are both soulless suits.

[Darth_Advent]

and we were flat out told at SDCC last year by a Lucasarts rep that LA can and will take the reigns if EA mishandles the IP like SOE did

 

Proof, please.

[Dako]

EA sports has known nothing but success. Maybe a shakeup is just what EA needs.

 

Hardly comparable;

FIFA, Madden, NHL etc. pump out the same crap over and over again, people buy it all like mindless zombies, play it for a few weeks then shelf it. Same goes for Call of Duty.

 

I doubt that's the model SWTOR should be based on.

[Sarfux]

Sorry folks...but this game will never be f2p. LucasArts knows free to play means crap for a game of this size and magnitude. LA is the leader here, EA is just the figure head and publisher. LucasArts and BioWare are more informed of things going on in the game than EA is. I bet you EA doesn't really have a say in the game. They just give BW a LOAD of money to do it to get subs. LucasArts won't allow f2p. f2p blows games up and makes most bad with less content updates.

 

It will be a 15 dollar a month fee and that's IT. Just like James Ohlen said. They don't want to charge for expansions either because they know we are already paying a fee for the game montly. Free content updates + free expansions, he has said that in quite a few videos and interviews to. So don't worry for f2p. Not gonna happen to this game.

[Sarfux]

Proof, please.

 

dude..they said it last year. Go check the quotes on google. LucasArts has the final say in everything Star Was related. Them and BioWare probably work more together on this game than EA and BioWare. EA is a figure head, nothing more than the publisher. LucasArts HAS in fact said many times before if EA makes poor decisions due to marketing or publishing rights or anything else, they will take permission of the game because they don't want another Sony Online Entertainment DISASTER that screwed their first one.

 

Due to LucasArts seeing BioWare does a very good job with Star Wars related things and Star Wars lore, they okayed BioWare to do the game because they want players to have fun in a Star Wars mmorpg and they saw BioWare wouldn't screw it up. Star Wars is all about immersion and story, with family Legacies. That's what we have. That's what it's all about here.

 

EA doesn't have that much power like people think, in this game at least. They just don't....everything Star Wars is LucasArts. END of story

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sarfux

[Goretzu]

I think the problem with the video games industry overall is that they forgot at some point that they are making entertainment, not shoes or soap or some other mass produced product. Make it cheap, make it fast, hype it up, count the cash.

 

 

This. They just want $$$'s they don't remember that it's gameplay that actually gets that long term.