Stunned...full resolve...rooted...rooted...rooted...no resolve...stunned...

[Paulman]

I agree. If you were stunned and rooted 10+ times, you definitely shouldn't have survived.

 

I agree. You need to be nerfed.

[Caeliux]

Cael, "CC" moves are not bypassing resolve. Roots and snares are not considered to be CC; as Bioware has said, they are for kiting/gap closing. .

 

CC = Crowd Control

 

Snares, Roots, kiting moves, gap closing moves = CC which = Crowd Control.

 

Crowd Control means CC, Bioware version of CC is actually CC that isn't being named CC.

 

Do any of you understand what CC is and has been for a long time.

 

Movement modifiers

The ability to move faster than an opponent provides a form of crowd control, often through kiting. Any modifier that decreases an opponent's speed will allow kiting, as do any modifiers that increase the CCer's speed (as in the case of "Spirit of Wolf" in Everquest). While movement speed buffs traditionally are not considered a form of CC, they still fall into the crowd control category.

Many forms of crowd control use this type of modifier. Traditionally, "root" and "snare" effects that directly modify opponents' movement rates by lowering them or simply preventing movement have been the staple of this type of crowd control.

The abilities include, but are not limited to:

Root - immobilizes character while allowing all other actions to occur

Snare - lowers movement rates while allowing all other actions to occur

Movement speed buffs

Teleport - moves the CCer a distance away, usually further than could be reached by regular movement in the same time frame

Knockback - teleports opponent(s) away from the CCer

Levitate - allows CCer to use terrain advantages to line-of-sight or safely fall from a height in order to cover more ground than normally possible

Direction changes - forces opponents to move in another direction, often resulting in tempo or distance gains for the CCer

Fear/Stun/Mesmerize ("mez")/Charm - robust CC abilities that usually include other types of CC alongside one from the above list

 

Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_(video_gaming)

 

Do I need to explain that cc immunity should happen in a game where cc is going on, resolve should protect us from it but looks like Bioware don't want that.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Caeliux

[Frenchfrys]

Wikipedia?

 

Oh lawd.

[Retro_Chrome]

RESOLVE works!!!

 

however i am intrigued by the idea that roots or slows cannot add to resolve but while white barred you can not be rooted or slowed as well as hard stunned. this would possibly break something like kiting , but it seems a possible change that would not be bad.

 

force choke ignoring resolve is bad, this they need to fix.

 

 

RESOLVE WORKS!!! one ability and its mirror are broken, but resolve does wok as intended.

[Kurfer]

If a combination of 2 Snipers and 2 socrs want to keep you rooted for an entire game that is fine. Your team should go win while your opponents play 2-4 people down.

 

Problem is, when you're on a team full of ******* and this doesn't happen it makes the situation 10 times more frustrating than it already is.

 

NOTHING irks me more than watching a dps squad hunt my marauder down like a bunch of fail n00bs that they are and not see my team capitalize on their failures.

[Caeliux]

RESOLVE works!!!

 

however i am intrigued by the idea that roots or slows cannot add to resolve but while white barred you can not be rooted or slowed as well as hard stunned. this would possibly break something like kiting , but it seems a possible change that would not be bad.

 

force choke ignoring resolve is bad, this they need to fix.

 

 

RESOLVE WORKS!!! one ability and its mirror are broken, but resolve does wok as intended.

 

I see what you did there.

[Sock_Bramson]

Do I need to explain to you what Bioware's definition of CC is? (psst, it's stuns and mezes)

As someone else said, when someone tells you to CC a target during a raid in any other MMO, do you:

A.) Root them. B.) snare them. or C.) Mez them.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(correct answer)

 

If you feel like Resolve should effect any kind of movement-pairing effects, cool. However, the system is working exactly as Bioware designed it. It prevents repeated use of moves that completely take a character out of action. Roots and snares, on the other hand, only impede/prevent movement, not abilities. While a well timed root/snare is certainly frustrating, they do not keep you from reacting in some way. Plus, they can be quickly cleansed, while stuns/mezes can only be occasionally broken.

 

Now, if you want to quibble about the term CC, we can do that, too. Crowd Control has always implied, to me, the ability to take an enemy out of a fight, to lessen the size of the "crowd" you're facing in order to tilt the odds more in your group's favor. While roots/snares can "control" an enemy's movement, they do not prevent it from acting. They can help you kite melee targets or prevent ranged targets from running away. In a PVE environment, rooting a ranged target does nothing to keep it from shooting the crap out of you. Stunning/mezing it, however (CCing it), allows you to avoid a potentially problematic source of damage.

 

Bioware did not falsely advertise the resolve system, you simply misunderstood it's design.

 

-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-

[Kurfer]

I'll also add, even if they keep the current resolve system in tact the resolve bar should not be visible to other players. It's too supportive to baddies, wow had a similar diminishing return system but you had to keep track of your teams stuns to take advantage of it. Made for a large separation in skill and coordination for CC's instead of ******* switching to roots when bar = white.

 

There are too many players who blindly use their CC's just because they have them, making resolve hidden would punish these baddies for doing this.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Kurfer

[Meanerr]

CC = Crowd Control

Snares, Roots, kiting moves, gap closing moves = CC which = Crowd Control.

Crowd Control means CC, Bioware version of CC is actually CC that isn't being named CC.

Do any of you understand what CC is and has been for a long time.

 

Yes, most of us understand what "CC" is but you need to get it through YOUR head; "CC" in one game doesn't necessarily mean the same thing in another.

 

The rules according to this game means that roots and snares are not part of "CC".

 

Until you actually understand that part you just sound uneducated.

 

Now if you want to say roots and snares should be part of "CC" in SWTOR, that's fine, but please stop saying resolve is broken, it is not. You are just making false statements and confusing the playerbase, especially those who are new to SWTOR.

[TheSolidPat]

I'll also add, even if they keep the current resolve system in tact the resolve bar should not be visible to other players. It's too supportive to baddies, wow had a similar diminishing return system but you had to keep track of your teams stuns to take advantage of it. Made for a large separation in skill and coordination for CC's instead of ******* switching to roots when bar = white.

 

There are too many players who blindly use their CC's just because they have them, making resolve hidden would punish these baddies for doing this.

 

I disagree with the idea of making it invisible, here is why:

 

I do agree in WOW this was an important feature. But comparing WOW arena vs SWTOR ranked WZ in terms of chain CC, that is just impossible. It took weeks for a good 3v3 team to flawlessly develop perfect CC chaining. It will never happen in 8v8 warzones.

 

Besides, WOW diminishing returns were specific to CC classes. In SWTOR, all CCs are counted as one practically.

 

So really I don't understand how people can even think to whining about the resolve bar. I'm coming from a TSG team and the resolve system is like a gift to my melee character. It is definitely the best CC immunity system I've seen in PVP MMO.

[kitsinni]

Why?

 

Look at me from a defender point of view (pretend that I am the defender): I want to kill you, because I don't want you to score. I keep dps ing you, but the healer above the rails is out of my range and he is healing whatever damage I put. Your death at the fire pit is my last straw and I cc you there, I know -EXACTLY- that you will use your cc breaker and I immediately after throw my root at you to make sure you don't cross it. Now it is you or that healer's problem to immediately cleanse it or pass the ball to counter my act.

 

It is working as intended. If you used your cc breaker and are rooted in place, just pass the ball, toward the players at your back if you have to. And be fast about it.

 

And your comment about some people being better at carrying the ball: Well, yes, half of the classes are better at carrying the ball. Half of the classes are better at defending against the ball carrier. Emphasis needed on the word -better-. Meaning, anyone else can do it, some people have advantage in it. If you don't have that advantage, you have advantage in controlling the mid, and/or defending against the ball carrier. If it happens that all your hutball team group is snipers-ops-mercs-powertechs (a composotion I have NEVER seen yet), means you can defend better and you need to make use of "pass the ball" ability more often.

 

Ok well if my break shouldn't even allow me a step before not being able to move again then what is the point? In my opinion if I can make it across the map with the ball and I save my break for that one fire trap and even use it as right when I am stopped it should be useful enough to get me a step or two or what is the point of it even being there? Yes in 10% of matches there is someone else to throw the ball to, in the 90% that there isn't I should just ground the ball, because if there was a proper jump around and run through fire traps ball carrier I wouldn't have to have the ball?

 

I'm all for some people being able to carry the ball better but if you have one break on a cool down and you save the thing for one five meter patch it should at least be useful enough to get you 5 meters. Otherwise what we are saying is that some classes are spectacular at carrying the ball and others should avoid it at all costs, which if that is the case they should take huttball out of the pug rotation.

[TheSolidPat]

 

I'm all for some people being able to carry the ball better but if you have one break on a cool down and you save the thing for one five meter patch it should at least be useful enough to get you 5 meters. Otherwise what we are saying is that some classes are spectacular at carrying the ball and others should avoid it at all costs, which if that is the case they should take huttball out of the pug rotation.

 

In ranked there is no such thing as a ball carrier, only ball passers. Speccing tank in ranked is a waste of a damage dealer. And I've yet to see someone take the ball in the middle and score it. But what I do often is 3 passes and score within 10 secs . But people just don't understand that when your resolve bar is full (so their team most likely abused their CC on you) it's time to pass the ball. Forget the extra 5-10 yards. Pass the ball to someone else, and slow the hell out of the people on you. That's nothing new, its all written in Huttball 101.

 

I will even go as far as saying Huttball is the WZ i care the less about my resolve bar. I never walk over fire. I either charge, intervene and pass. Now to think of it, maybe people should even disable their Forward key ( W ) in that WZ. It would really be more efficient for the team.

[paowee]

Asking for roots to respect resolve and saying that resolve is broken are two separate issues.

 

Please stop saying "roots" = cc in swtor. Currently "roots" does not equal cc. Until you get that fact of the game through your head you do not understand how the rules work in this game.

 

Now if you want to argue that roots should respect resolve, that is a separate argument and is totally a valid debate.

 

ps I have yet to see anyone document/prove that resolve is broken. Until you link a vid of it, resolve works.

 

 

THIS^

 

PVPers should imo stop COMPLAINING which i swear to Abeloth is the only thing they ever do and stop trying to make the game the way THEY want it to be played. If you don't like how resolve WORKS in this game, then play another game or MAKE YOUR OWN GAME where Resolve affects stuns/mezz AND roots.

 

STUNS/MEZZ = electrocute, bakchand, spike, choke, intimidating roar, whirlwind, force lift, etc = STUNS / MEZZ

[kitsinni]

In ranked there is no such thing as a ball carrier, only ball passers. Speccing tank in ranked is a waste of a damage dealer. And I've yet to see someone take the ball in the middle and score it. But what I do often is 3 passes and score within 10 secs . But people just don't understand that when your resolve bar is full (so their team most likely abused their CC on you) it's time to pass the ball. Forget the extra 5-10 yards. Pass the ball to someone else, and slow the hell out of the people on you. That's nothing new, its all written in Huttball 101.

 

I will even go as far as saying Huttball is the WZ i care the less about my resolve bar. I never walk over fire. I either charge, intervene and pass. Now to think of it, maybe people should even disable their Forward key ( W ) in that WZ. It would really be more efficient for the team.

 

In organized ranked none of this is a problem, this is a problem in normal WZ where you are not communicating and have no control over where the other people are or what they do. Of course in a ranked WZ when I am on mumble or vent I can simply have someone there to pass to.

 

That is why I said that if you can't even walk 5 meters without relying on certain other classes to play their part huttball shouldn't be part of the PUG WZ's, I think it is fine in ranked when you can plan for it.

[MadBernieSkills]

For those of you who think that roots and snares are CC, I give you this scenario.

 

You are playing a sorc in PvE, about to start a tough pull in a HM, and the tank tells you "CC the battle droid."

 

Do you:

 

1) Snare the battle droid with Force Slow?

2) Root the battle droid with Creeping Terror?

3) Mez the battle droid with Whirlwind?

 

(HINT: if you say 1 or 2, I am putting you on ignore.)

 

See, the thing about a snare or a root is that it won't stop the battle droid from BBQing the healer when the tank doesn't pick it up because he THOUGHT YOU CC'D IT.

 

If the battledroid was standing on a firepit, method 1 & 2 would be better.

If the battledroid was carrying a huttball, method 1 & 2 would be better.

If the battledroid used a melee weapon and was at a distance, method 1 & 2 would be better.

 

I'm not disagreeing with anything else you are saying, but I don't think the situations are equal. If the only point of a CC is to stop the enemy from damaging you, then it would be equal.

From WowWiki - Crowd Control (abbreviated CC) refers to spells and abilities which limit an opponent's ability to fight. CC abilities are used to reduce the number of mobs that the group fight at once. Due to the fact that most groups cannot tank more than a certain number of elite mobs at a time, crowd control is often essential to prevent a group from being overwhelmed.

 

I could argue that rooting someone in a firepit, knocking them off a ledge, slowing a melee down, etc, could be construed as a forms of CC.

 

While I agree Resolve is working as intended, the game is very frustrating with the amount of things that do not affect resolve. I think it should be modified in some way. Some players need to actually, you know, move, to be effective.

[kitsinni]

THIS^

 

PVPers should imo stop COMPLAINING which i swear to Abeloth is the only thing they ever do and stop trying to make the game the way THEY want it to be played. If you don't like how resolve WORKS in this game, then play another game or MAKE YOUR OWN GAME where Resolve affects stuns/mezz AND roots.

 

STUNS/MEZZ = electrocute, bakchand, spike, choke, intimidating roar, whirlwind, force lift, etc = STUNS / MEZZ

 

To be fair I think people are used to pretty much every other game where anything used to "control a crowd" is considered "crowd control". I get it BW has their own weird version where making it so someone can't move in anyway is not "crowd control" but you can't blame people for not realizing a game the copied most of the rest of the concepts has this one so far off from what most other games do.

[Meanerr]

That is why I said that if you can't even walk 5 meters without relying on certain other classes to play their part huttball shouldn't be part of the PUG WZ's, I think it is fine in ranked when you can plan for it.

 

Please stop asking devs to keep taking things out of this game!

 

Ilum -> gone. Adrenals -> gone. It's just making SWTOR less dynamic and more boring tbh.

 

Unranked warzones is not hardcore pvp and people should not be excluded just because of their game play. Now if you don't want to play with "less coordinated" people, find/make seven friends and queue for RWZs.

[kitsinni]

Please stop asking devs to keep taking things out of this game!

 

Ilum -> gone. Adrenals -> gone. It's just making SWTOR less dynamic and more boring tbh.

 

Unranked warzones is not hardcore pvp and people should not be excluded just because of their game play. Now if you don't want to play with "less coordinated" people, find/make seven friends and queue for RWZs.

 

Um ... I didn't send any requests to any devs to make any changes in this game, and believe it or not I don't think the devs give a crap what my opinion on this matter is. I have played enough PvP games to know that the StunWars are not making this game more dynamic or less boring lol. I would be happy to have Illum and adrenals back to.

 

I just think BW could have done a MUCH better job with the CC and roots in this game.

[Ghostuka]

I'm all for some people being able to carry the ball better but if you have one break on a cool down and you save the thing for one five meter patch it should at least be useful enough to get you 5 meters. Otherwise what we are saying is that some classes are spectacular at carrying the ball and others should avoid it at all costs, which if that is the case they should take huttball out of the pug rotation.

 

I understand your point. But "not being able to walk 5 meters when it counts" is not a valid argument. While you are all for making that 5 meters, the opposing team is trying to make sure you don't. If they act/counteract better than you, they deserve to stop you. Yes, you are expected to save your cc breaker, but that does not mean you should be able to win automatically, just because you saved 1 ability. The opposing team are using more than one ability. 1 to stun you where it matters and force you to use your cc breaker, and they are using another ability after you break it and now your TEAM (including you but not limited to you) need to counteract that. If you don't have anyone in range to pass the ball, that means your opponents again played right and divided you from your team. They deserve to be rewarded in this case.

And this is absolutely fair play.

 

Also, I bet you will have your resolve bar full before coming to the last fire pit and thus be immune to cc anyway. In PUG teams, that is what happens -all- the time. Whenever you get the ball, you get bombarded with stuns. And the strategy is easy, you eat the first stun and on the second one, you cc break and you keep walking with a full resolve bar. It keeps you immune to cc for a while where it counts. If you don't have a full resolve bar, don't have anyone to pass the ball, that means your opponents played it right to separate you AND they saved their cc to where it will count.

[kitsinni]

I just think everyone should have at least one break that makes them immune to being stopped again for at least a least a second, not an autowin button. Im not against cc just everyone has so much with so few ways around it.

[paltrysum]

...thanks to a complete lack of diminishing returns or immunity to cc..

 

This is the key phrase.

 

There are no diminishing returns to you can be stunned for eight seconds and then immediately stunned again for the same period of time. Not good design.

[Bazzoong]

Right, because the rest of my team isn't attempting to stun, root, and kill their team, nor attempt to heal me. They were just watching me and eating popcorn.

 

For the record, I am a fully augmented war hero and I blew every cooldown, and the opposing team was a mixed battlemaster group. The fact still stands that cc is broken, and this is not an exception to that.

 

The only thing broken about this situation are the brains of your team, all the roots can be dispelled, and the dispels are on 5 sec cds, way shorter than the cds of the various roots, if you sit in a slow for longer than a couple of sec it is entirely your teams fault.

I humbly suggest keybinding and using the various dispels.

[Meanerr]

all the roots can be dispelled, and the dispels are on 5 sec cds

 

This is somewhat true.

 

Tech roots can only be dispelled by tech toons and force roots can only be dispelled by force users unless you are like my Sage/Sorc where I spec into the 16 point healing talent that lets me dispel both (which makes us squishies somewhat more useful but totally gimps our dps).

[Rompdomp]

CC = Crowd Control

 

Snares, Roots, kiting moves, gap closing moves = CC which = Crowd Control.

 

Crowd Control means CC, Bioware version of CC is actually CC that isn't being named CC.

 

Do any of you understand what CC is and has been for a long time.

 

 

 

Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_(video_gaming)

 

Do I need to explain that cc immunity should happen in a game where cc is going on, resolve should protect us from it but looks like Bioware don't want that.

 

1. The question of whether or not resolve is working as intended and the question of whether or not roots should be affected by resolve are two separate questions.

 

2. Its a valid opinion to want roots/snares to affect resolve.

 

3. Its also a valid opinion to think that roots/snares should not affect resolve

 

4. Stop posting dictionary definitions of what crowd control means. Its plain as day that the game mechanics allow for root/snaring with a full resolve bar. Many of us players don't mind this and think it adds more complexity and strategy to pvp. If you don't agree thats cool many other ppl feel the same way as you do, but stop implying that the resolve bar is not working as intended. There is no good evidence that it is broken.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Rompdomp

[Ghostuka]

I just think everyone should have at least one break that makes them immune to being stopped again for at least a least a second, not an autowin button. Im not against cc just everyone has so much with so few ways around it.

 

I would agree if they added a bonus to all cc breaks, such as, making you immune to another cc for a GCD. I am okay with the current version of cc/cc break/resolve system. But I would not be against adding a slight bonus to cc break use.