1.3 Patch - 23/1/17 Sith Assassin Build Revisited Video Guide

[Grogget]

Hey guys, Rhetoric here with a revisit on the 23/1/17 build for those who don't quite understand how this build works.

A few things to keep in mind, all footage is filmed during the 1.3 patch with all the buffs/nerfs that were applied.

 

 

Hopefully this guide is useful. Comments welcome.

[Xinika]

I love how 23/1/17 works. Thrash and Shock both synergize your DPS so well. Paired with respectable survivability, just overall a comfortable build.

[Grogget]

I love how 23/1/17 works. Thrash and Shock both synergize your DPS so well. Paired with respectable survivability, just overall a comfortable build.

 

Yep. Ever since I've tried this build out, I have not had any reason to switch to anything else because it fits my style of play perfectly. The only thing I don't like, and I did mention this in my video, is how the Energize buff is based on RNG - you could proc it on one Thrash, or twelve. You can even see an example of that RNG at work in my video where I'm trying to burn down an enemy Operative with Thrash so I can get the Energize buff, and I'm just constantly whacking at him until it finally pops up. Once it does though, then I can line up my burst with Recklessness+ Shock and pray for the Chain Shock to kick in too.

 

It is a jack of all trades build though: good at everything it does, but not really master of it. You're not going to tank quite as well as someone who is fully specced as a tank, nor are you going to be out DPSing full time DPSers. What you will have, however, is the element of unpredictability, stable damage, and moderate survivability.

 

The way I see it is like this: I come across an enemy Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassin, now I only have a few seconds to find out what they bring to the table. Most people, at least on The Shadowlands server, run either Infiltration/Deception or Kinetic/Darkness, and are fully specced into those trees. That makes them predictable, because you have a rough idea of how they are going to approach you. Personally, if I see a Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadow in Surging Charge/Shadow Technique, I'm on them so fast and I'll burn them down like a hot knife through butter, and they can't do much against me alone.

 

With the hybrid build, people see the Dark Charge/Combat Technique stance and assume you're going to be using Wither against them with the Force Lightning/TTK heal, but when you surprise them by doing something totally different, now they have to adapt pretty damn fast to counter you, and most people just don't seem to be able to.

 

I suppose skill level has to vary between server to server, but for the most part, its a great build for PTFO. You have decent damage, moderate to high end survivability, mobility, and lots of utility. Not to mention Death Field/Force In Balance has saved so many nodes its not even funny.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Grogget

[Dencre]

I tried it and did not like it. Full Darkness for me. Also wither not breaking CC is wonderful.

 

Not trying to be mean, but I would rather read a guide than watch a video. I refuse to watch peoples video's.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Dencre

[Xinika]

 

Not trying to be mean, but I would rather read a guide than watch a video. I refuse to watch peoples video's.

 

Then you have no idea what you're missing.

[Siberian_Menace]

Then you have no idea what you're missing.

 

Yep, you just missed some poor PVE kills, like spamming thrash untill you get energized shock and then pop recklessness - took the op forever to kill a strong mob in the End of Torvix.

 

And some bad PVP moves like chasing some 14k guy in Huttball trying to crit him big with no luck, jumping on vents up to chase him and again no luck.

 

And attacking an operative, who popped evasion, with white attacks, missing all the thrashing, getting almost killed, getting healed up, then getting energized shock, popping recklessness and getting what - 3.2k crit?? 3.2 k crit once in 1.5 minutes?? Absurd.

 

So you didn't miss much by not watching this one

Edited July 13, 2012 by Siberian_Menace

[Xinika]

Yep, you just missed some poor PVE kills, like spamming thrash untill you get energized shock and then pop recklessness - took the op forever to kill a strong mob in the End of Torvix.

 

And some bad PVP moves like chasing some 14k guy in Huttball trying to crit him big with no luck, jumping on vents up to chase him and again no luck.

 

And attacking an operative, who popped evasion, with white attacks, missing all the thrashing, getting almost killed, getting healed up, then getting energized shock, popping recklessness and getting what - 3.2k crit?? 3.2 k crit once in 1.5 minutes?? Absurd.

 

So you didn't miss much by not watching this one

Meant in a generalization about videos. I myself can say that I've learned the most from watching videos.

[Dencre]

Ive never seen a video that really taught me something amazing, its generally just people pvping against bad players. A well written guide is just fabulous. The guide videos and streams are usually just an inflation of the posters ego.

 

I like to watch videos for boss fights, but the pve in this game is super easy so there really isn't a need for it.

 

Yes I watched a couple of your videos in the past Shin.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Dencre

[Xinika]

Ive never seen a video that really taught me something amazing, its generally just people pvping against bad players. A well written guide is just fabulous. The guide videos and streams are usually just an inflation of the posters ego.

 

I like to watch videos for boss fights, but the pve in this game is super easy so there really isn't a need for it.

 

Yes I watched a couple of your videos in the past Shin.

 

Doesn't work for you, and that's fine. I know that a Shadow named Sojou (He has 2 vids) taught me personally, more than any other guide has dared to even try. Just how I learn I guess. Even watching my own videos, there's a lot to learn. (Where did I mess up? What did I do good there? How could that have gone better?)

 

But again, everyone learns different. Some visual, some word-for-word.

[Siberian_Menace]

Meant in a generalization about videos. I myself can say that I've learned the most from watching videos.

 

Ah, ok then. Yes, you can learn alot from watching vids, especially from bad ones - what you should NOT do in pvp and such.

 

Also watching your own vids helps improving pvp-skill even more, as you can see much more mistakes than when pvping online.

[Kornaker]

Ah, ok then. Yes, you can learn alot from watching vids, especially from bad ones - what you should NOT do in pvp and such.

 

Also watching your own vids helps improving pvp-skill even more, as you can see much more mistakes than when pvping online.

 

i personnally don't see a lot of fault in shiranika's vids, and in this one too. I have a lot of fun seeing all assassin and shadow vids. But most of time i see normal warzones against low geared guys( and that's why we do good numbers). I hope to see a ranked with good guilds and a darkness hybrid doing the difference.

 

In tomb of freedon nadd i just see 3 assassin doing the difference in ranked and never see them making video ( easyway made his but against noob so...).

[Xinika]

Also watching your own vids helps improving pvp-skill even more, as you can see much more mistakes than when pvping online.

 

So true.

 

I hope to see a ranked with good guilds and a darkness hybrid doing the difference.

Next vid Im making is like all ranked matches. (Sorry for derail)

 

Also concerning the RNG on 23/1/17... it is also my issue with it. At times you can catch yourself spamming Thrash and that's an issue. So, I just use Shock regardless of if I get the proc or not. I give Energize 2-3 thrash tries to proc, if not, then I continue my Shock rotation regardless.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Xinika

[Sookster]

There are some irritating drawbacks to that build, as madness I do significantly better sustained dps rather than waiting for such procs while drying up the force bar (like Rhet did in that video), and no I don't have force problems with madness.

[Dierdrea]

There are some irritating drawbacks to that build, as madness I do significantly better sustained dps rather than waiting for such procs while drying up the force bar (like Rhet did in that video), and no I don't have force problems with madness.

 

^ What this guys says.

 

Once you take shock out of the rotation, force is not an issue. And yes this is very sustainable for PVP as well. PVP madness is a supporting role dps and if you go into the right role, it works very well on a team. My problem with hybrid builds generally is that it is gimicky and against really good teams your team actually will be hurt because you can't accomplish the dps pure dps builds can deal and you can't tank as well as a pure tank. So you can defend nodes but you can't do it as well as a tanks, you can attack nodes but a dps can do much quicker area damage and sustained single target dps than you...lose lose situation...

[Tulee]

So you can defend nodes but you can't do it as well as a tanks, you can attack nodes but a dps can do much quicker area damage and sustained single target dps than you...lose lose situation...

Hybrid 23/1/17 brings a lot of utility and CC to the team. Only thing which can be deemed superior CC-wise in a pure Madness spec is Creeping Terror which iirc ignores resolution bar, but hybrid has the Grapple which is a match winner too so it depends on team setup I guess.

[Fallerup]

Doesn't work for you, and that's fine. I know that a Shadow named Sojou (He has 2 vids) taught me personally, more than any other guide has dared to even try. Just how I learn I guess. Even watching my own videos, there's a lot to learn. (Where did I mess up? What did I do good there? How could that have gone better?)

 

But again, everyone learns different. Some visual, some word-for-word.

 

exactly, I like to see things in action, perhaps before or after reading how it works.

 

So I'm working on leveling up my 2nd assassin, since my first is a twi'lek and they can't wear hoods, it's a bummer, so I made a chiss this time around. Anyways, about the Rated WZ commendations and normal ones. Is it true that you get full RWZ and full WZ commendations doing nothing but PvP for 8 levels only? Obviously, you will want 2K normal ones before you hit 40. then buy RWZ from those, then keep buying those til you get 3400 RWZ or what ever the cap is. then 2K WZ ones. As I said, I'm told it takes 8 levels to do this (from 40 to 48), is that true?

 

Also, to the madness lovers out there, ask yourself this: if you, as a ranked WZ team leader were to pick, which would you pick? Madness Sorcerer or Madness assassin? I think it's pretty obvious choice here. The sorcerer wins, hands down. my ideal team setup would be: juggernaut tank and I do mean an actual tank, tanking gear n all (huttball anyone?), 23/1/17 assassin, sniper (healer killer), 2 healers of any kind, 2 madness sorcerers (carrier pullers and mad dps) and one pyro powertech (nice burst + grapple).

Edited July 16, 2012 by Fallerup

[Xinika]

exactly, I like to see things in action, perhaps before or after reading how it works.

 

So I'm working on leveling up my 2nd assassin, since my first is a twi'lek and they can't wear hoods, it's a bummer, so I made a chiss this time around. Anyways, about the Rated WZ commendations and normal ones. Is it true that you get full RWZ and full WZ commendations doing nothing but PvP for 8 levels only? Obviously, you will want 2K normal ones before you hit 40. then buy RWZ from those, then keep buying those til you get 3400 RWZ or what ever the cap is. then 2K WZ ones. As I said, I'm told it takes 8 levels to do this (from 40 to 48), is that true?

 

Also, to the madness lovers out there, ask yourself this: if you, as a ranked WZ team leader were to pick, which would you pick? Madness Sorcerer or Madness assassin? I think it's pretty obvious choice here. The sorcerer wins, hands down. my ideal team setup would be: juggernaut tank and I do mean an actual tank, tanking gear n all (huttball anyone?), 23/1/17 assassin, sniper (healer killer), 2 healers of any kind, 2 madness sorcerers (carrier pullers and mad dps) and one pyro powertech (nice burst + grapple).

 

Well, at first I was completely sold by Madness Sorc > Madness Sin, but after playing Balance as my MS in ranked, I believe we are on almost even ground due to our stealth abilities. Madness Assassin is by far the best annoyance class in the game. Something quite useful for ranked.

[Dierdrea]

Also, to the madness lovers out there, ask yourself this: if you, as a ranked WZ team leader were to pick, which would you pick? Madness Sorcerer or Madness assassin? I think it's pretty obvious choice here. The sorcerer wins, hands down. my ideal team setup would be: juggernaut tank and I do mean an actual tank, tanking gear n all (huttball anyone?), 23/1/17 assassin, sniper (healer killer), 2 healers of any kind, 2 madness sorcerers (carrier pullers and mad dps) and one pyro powertech (nice burst + grapple).

 

Not true at all. Madness assassins can do just as much damage as sorcs. And with utility on par depending on situation and arguable better survivability if played corrected with good healers. You also left out marauders on your team... The more certain thing I believe is a ranked leader would never take a 23/1/17 darkness over a pure darkness tank. A pure tank will miss out on the instant whirlwind, but whirlwind is a really limited use skill in ranked matches when you have to coordinate cc's (not to mention if you have madness sorcs or sins they certainly will have it, overstacking the same skill that doesn't stack is a waste). Losing wither is also a huge blow for team play, the easily applied slow effect and the damage reduction. If you reduce 5 % damage from everyone focusing a target, that is a huge in combination with mass taunt. Sure it outdps the pure tank...but 23/1/17 is never going to be higher than pure dps in damage dealt.

 

I am not trying to say it is bad. This is an awesome and great solo spec by all means. I am just not completely sold on this whole "off-tank role" in ranked pvp.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Dierdrea

[Fallerup]

Not true at all. Madness assassins can do just as much damage as sorcs. And with utility on par depending on situation and arguable better survivability if played corrected with good healers. You also left out marauders on your team... The more certain thing I believe is a ranked leader would never take a 23/1/17 darkness over a pure darkness tank. A pure tank will miss out on the instant whirlwind, but whirlwind is a really limited use skill in ranked matches when you have to coordinate cc's (not to mention if you have madness sorcs or sins they certainly will have it, overstacking the same skill that doesn't stack is a waste). Losing wither is also a huge blow for team play, the easily applied slow effect and the damage reduction. If you reduce 5 % damage from everyone focusing a target, that is a huge in combination with mass taunt. Sure it outdps the pure tank...but 23/1/17 is never going to be higher than pure dps in damage dealt.

 

I am not trying to say it is bad. This is an awesome and great solo spec by all means. I am just not completely sold on this whole "off-tank role" in ranked pvp.

 

yeah, Anni marauder might be as good as a pyro powertech. But remember, PvP is not about kills. The tools you have at your disposal are important. These classes here, all have tools in which to hold your enemy at bay... cover pulse, enemy pull, grapple, ally pull.

 

I think Shinarika will disagree with you on the 23/1/17 spec since she plays it almost all the time and does rather well.

 

Marauders are nice, but not needed, unless you get one for the Powertech in this setup or one of the madness sorcerers. I would say, Marauders are a good class for personal satisfaction (just like deception, and most players are about personal satifaction, hence the FOTM syndrome) and team burst (Bloodlust), but since this is not about killing, I don't see a use for one. Granted, I find them hard to kill and I usually avoid them when ever I can, but....

 

imagine, scoring a huttball goal without a single kill. What would you need in order to do this? tank (ball carrier), healers, pullers or ppl that can keep the enemy team away. Not kill them faster so they get to their goal line to defend faster. Not that that is normally a problem, but t could be.

 

Since I've given my ideal setup, what would yours be?

 

Anyways, on topic... I really love this spec, it has everything you could ever want. Wither might be nice and I usually went 31/1/9, but if you, as an assassin are to counter wither, it's rather easy. pop force shroud and run... sprint also works, the area is not that huge. Death field, with very nice stats, lands you a 4-5K hit all around, some even as high as 7K I've seen. if that is not an annoyance for a healer, I don't know what is.

 

You have no idea how often I have found myself cursing, that I'm only lvl 32 and don't have instant Whirlwind yet. The casting time on it takes forever when you are getting hit. The sad thing is, I wont get full benefit until I hit 50, since its the last 2 talents to put points in.

 

 

Well, at first I was completely sold by Madness Sorc > Madness Sin, but after playing Balance as my MS in ranked, I believe we are on almost even ground due to our stealth abilities. Madness Assassin is by far the best annoyance class in the game. Something quite useful for ranked.

 

Pure balance/madness? as in something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0MZoZfMcRrrkrfz.2 ??

Edited July 17, 2012 by Fallerup

[Dierdrea]

yeah, Anni marauder might be as good as a pyro powertech. But remember, PvP is not about kills. The tools you have at your disposal are important. These classes here, all have tools in which to hold your enemy at bay... cover pulse, enemy pull, grapple, ally pull.

 

I think Shinarika will disagree with you on the 23/1/17 spec since she plays it almost all the time and does rather well.

 

Marauders are nice, but not needed, unless you get one for the Powertech in this setup or one of the madness sorcerers. I would say, Marauders are a good class for personal satisfaction (just like deception, and most players are about personal satifaction, hence the FOTM syndrome) and team burst (Bloodlust), but since this is not about killing, I don't see a use for one. Granted, I find them hard to kill and I usually avoid them when ever I can, but....

 

imagine, scoring a huttball goal without a single kill. What would you need in order to do this? tank (ball carrier), healers, pullers or ppl that can keep the enemy team away. Not kill them faster so they get to their goal line to defend faster. Not that that is normally a problem, but t could be.

 

Since I've given my ideal setup, what would yours be?

 

Anyways, on topic... I really love this spec, it has everything you could ever want. Wither might be nice and I usually went 31/1/9, but if you, as an assassin are to counter wither, it's rather easy. pop force shroud and run... sprint also works, the area is not that huge. Death field, with very nice stats, lands you a 4-5K hit all around, some even as high as 7K I've seen. if that is not an annoyance for a healer, I don't know what is.

 

You have no idea how often I have found myself cursing, that I'm only lvl 32 and don't have instant Whirlwind yet. The casting time on it takes forever when you are getting hit. The sad thing is, I wont get full benefit until I hit 50, since its the last 2 talents to put points in.

 

Pure balance/madness? as in something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0MZoZfMcRrrkrfz.2 ??

 

I do feel obligated to reply after you wrote so much. However, I don't feel this is the right place for such a detailed discussion on team mechanics so I will keep it really short. You can feel free to look into this more. Once again, I don't dislike this spec at all, just point out it is really limited in group PVP. Of course it will work still, just it won't be my first choice if I had to choose between Skill pure tanksin, pure dps or this spec.

 

To start off, my idea setup would be something like this:

 

Core: 1 Tank Juggernaut, 1 Tank assassin (priority on extra guard and pull),1 DPS Marauder Carnage (figure out why this is good yourself), 1 DPS PT, 1 Sorc healer and 1 agent healer (or agent x 2 if more than 1 DPS madness Sorc)

That leaves 2 slots, which can be filled by:

1. DPS x 2 (PT or Sniper or Smash Jug/Mara or Madness Sin/Sorc or Anni Marauder, and yes, in this order; pick and choose on preference)

or:

2. 1 DPS (See previous list) and extra Healer or Hybrid Heal/CC Sorc.

 

You are focusing really hard on the idea that higher DPS is not important for warzones because you think higher DPS is equivalent to not doing objective in warzones. That is really incorrect. A good pvp'er has no problem doing objectives and pull off high stats. Even if you just go beyond everything and just focus on stats alone without any context, I am willing to bet anything that in most cases the team with the higher number win the game. Your Huttball scenario makes it seem like the other team is just letting you guys run by while they chill. Most opposite teams I face will use their pull, their predation, their roots, and will try to kill you. If you ever faced a team with great burst DPS and coordination on Vent/Mumble/TS, simply running the ball without trying to kill is surefire way to lose mid, lose ball and lose the game. Not going to even go into other warzones...

 

Wither hits up to 5 targets, great for countering focus firing and help buy time for healers and for the focused target to get away. Deathfield is nice for a short burst, but try to rely on your DPS teammates more to do the burst. The true headache for healers when it comes to madness spec is not just the Deathfield critting for 4k on 3 targets, but that their team is fully dotted and ticking with every second. Madness soften up targets for burst to occur. Take the dots out of the equation, Deathfield loses a ton of its potency.

 

It is a team game. I always said PVP is about ganging up on people, 1v1 is BS. I am sure 7k is pretty much no longer attainable in good matches. I am a full geared out Assassin, full WH with full Willpower augments, and my highest Deathfield has not come anywhere near 6k for a long time. I don't count using it on pve geared or naked enemies. I have only played deception and madness, never ever spec Darkness once in this character's playtime. I have recently started playing deception again and it is fun as hell when geared out. My best LOL moment was when I found a well-geared agent healer and did 4k Dischrage, 2 VS, 5k shock, then 3 x 4k Maul, followed by a 4k execute.

 

Once again, don't worry too much about doing everything yourself, rely on your teammates. Sure you can curse at not having instant whirlwind, but your ideal team also have 2 Sorcs with instant whirlwind on it. Whirlwind, if broken, is perfect for filling out resolve bars. If you are playing with people that essentially depends on you to do everything, that team probably won't do very well. I play as pure madness SIn (the 2 points in quicker sprint and shroud is mandatory in PVP as far as I am concerned) in ranked PVP and I save instant whirlwind only to prevent caps when I am too far away and Deathfield is not up. I have a decent idea when you curse about not having instant whirlwind, I do curse too when it is on Cooldown and I need it. Yet this is such a rare occurrence that I have gone matches without actually using whirlwind for a meaningful purpose. I can generally shout for an assist and someone will do it.

 

Sorry, I failed to keep it brief lolz....started typing and started rambling...sigh

Edited July 17, 2012 by Dierdrea

[lordnathanial]

I am new to playing the assassin and this build seems to me to be easy for a noob assassin like me to try in pvp. With that being said which side would you start putting your points in (madness or darkness)? Thanks for the help in advance.

[Sir_D]

This is the build that im going to run now, used to play the 31/0/10 but for me that doesn't do much for the team in rated.

Yes the wither spec might have more dps coz you can spam FL but this spec has more utility.

DF is a really good skill to have to interrupt node caps etc if you don't have a stun, pull or sprint available and at killing multiple low hp targets.

Instant whirlwind is so good. Any good player will recognize whirlwind being cast and interrupt it or los if your solo defending something. It also gives the sin/shadow more instant stuns. Sap, stun, spike, ww are enough for you to cap/plant and even stall opponents for teammates to turn up and help you.

Also going back to the dps. Both specs are similar in terms of dps produced. I feel the sins/shadows roles in rated (tanks) are not ment to dps but annoy opponents, you have mara, pt, snipers to dps.

[thefishdude]

I've run the 23/1/17 a lot and really love it. However, the main problem I have with the spec is it's not quite as good 1v1 as the 31/1/9 spec that I also run. And before everyone jumps down my throat, I definitely understand that rated games aren't just about 1v1 match ups. I also understand ALL the utility that the hybrid spec brings to the table.

 

With all that said, I'm still tasked many times to solo guard a node. it's just been my experience that I do better 1v1 with the 31/1/9 build. Do I miss instant whirlwind?? Hell Yes!! But I don't miss seeing the 2K plus ticks on HD.

[DarthMaulUK]

I've run the 23/1/17 a lot and really love it. However, the main problem I have with the spec is it's not quite as good 1v1 as the 31/1/9 spec that I also run. And before everyone jumps down my throat, I definitely understand that rated games aren't just about 1v1 match ups. I also understand ALL the utility that the hybrid spec brings to the table.

 

With all that said, I'm still tasked many times to solo guard a node. it's just been my experience that I do better 1v1 with the 31/1/9 build. Do I miss instant whirlwind?? Hell Yes!! But I don't miss seeing the 2K plus ticks on HD.

I would disagree. I have won plenty of 1v1s agaisnt some strong players with 23/1/17. I guess it can boil down to your procs and when/if they pop up in time, cool downs on force shroud etc etc. Which is one of the reasons why I like to check on my important abilities before I engage in 1v1 unless I have to if its to prevent the capture of something.

 

During a wz, you know that you have really pissed someone off when they gank up on you, just to take you down. I love that - especially when my team either score or capture a node whilst they are busy trying to bring me down.

Edited July 19, 2012 by DarthMaulUK

[thefishdude]

I would disagree. I have won plenty of 1v1s agaisnt some strong players with 23/1/17.

 

Statistically speaking, people will win some 1v1 with that spec. I've won a lot of 1v1 with that speak; however, in aggregate, 31/1/9 (IMO) is more effect.