WoW Has Made Us Soft

[Caelrie]

Out-leveling content? I haven't gotten past level 12 yet

 

Your opinion of the game is pretty much irrelevant.

[solidkjames]

Bioware knows full well that LFG, difficulty being too easy and the overall loss of community is what killed WoW's momentum. The game has lost more than 10% of it's subs in a years time and that isn't because they are doing things right. SWTOR needs to keep things just the way they are with minute changes. If you are too lazy to ask someone to group up then there is plenty of content to keep you busy.

 

I get so tired of seeing people moan about things but do nothing to correct the issuees. Crying about not getting in early access now everyone is crying b/c there are queues, WELL DUH you idiots. But Bioware isn't going to open 123412312 servers so in as initial trial people decide to leave that we are on barren wastes because they actually want people on the server to play together. Which goes back to not having a LFG tool, the people who want these things will do nothing to better this community and it is better off to lose them early than to let them stick around and ruin the game like they have every other MMO that has ever come out. For once I want a gaming company to make a game to their vision and to hell with what everyone else says. If Bioware can do that then this game will be here for ages.

[MABDK]

Totally agree with the OP

I'm so worried they will listen to all the people that want's the game easier, and thereby ruin it for people who likes a challenge.

 

I guess WoW did it to make more money, so they made the game kiddie friendly by allowing everybody getting everything without having to work for it / deserve it.

 

For sure there hasn't been any hardcore gamers in WoW since WoTLK

 

So if you think this game is too hard, or you don't have time LFG in chat, go back to WoW please, don't ruin the game for the rest of us.

[Burkesauce]

I agree with no group finder. It encourage people to make friends and play with new people. Or you could just group up with your guild.

[hobieone]

they do have have a LFG in the game. just open the social window there s an icon next to the peoples names as if they are looking for a group. if they are smart enough to to put in what they want to group for in the group comments you can tell what they want to group for.

 

i used it a few times and found some good people to group with for some heroics and flashpoints.

[solidkjames]

Top 10 reasons players gave up on (insert early 2011 launched MMO name here)

 

1) Class/Spec Imbalance (reacted too slowly to a few godlike specs)

2) In Game Meters for PvP but not PvE = bad (better to have none than partial)

3) PVP AFK'rs (people farming XP by queing and setting autorun)

4) Easymode Macros (some classes could macro 6 abilities to 1 button)

5) No Looking for Group Tool at Launch (people are so emo about this on both sides)

6) No Mobile Authenticator at Launch (huge wave of accounts hacked, cust service not prepared)

7) No Mod/Add-On support at Launch (even with a lot of UI options built into that game)

8) No Guild Bank at Launch

9) No Server Transfer at Launch (faction imbalance makes PvP miserable)

10) Official Forums filled with gems like "L2P" and "Go #^%$ Blizzard's @#$& you WoW fanboi"

 

Back in February people screamed very loudly "We don't NEED these things to be a great game", yet almost all have been implemented/fixed in the last 10 months (judging by the spam trying to get me to re-sub by calling these "added features").

 

Let's all come back to this thread in 3 months to see what has been added to SWTOR.

 

That game OPENLY challenged WOW. Meaning they wanted Blizzards business so YES they better make the game "Just Like" WoW. This game wants nothing to do with WoW and is building its on community from various MMO's. I'm sure lots of people here have played WoW but I am a veteran of every MMO of the last 15 years. I can tell you the most fun had in MMO's is the community making the game. Any game that takes away from that is only signing their own death certificate, I.E. Rift.

[BigBadEdward]

The MMO field is fairly mature at this point. If you look at the train wreck that was EQ and compare it to all the changes and improvements that have been made over time, it simply doesn't make sense that a "new" game starts off without some basic features MMO players have come to expect. It's not about making the game easier or putting things on auto-pilot, it's about spending more time playing the game instead of standing around waiting to play the game.

 

The good thing about almost all of these features is that they are completely voluntary and allow the elitist 1% who prefer spending 50% of their time in non-game playing activities to continue their chosen pursuits.

[Yowfatto]

Bw said they won't be doing any cross server stuff period, so we can all be very happy about that. Agree with what you said op. Swoop bike racing anyone?

[Tallur]

Agreed 100% with OP, the game is a challenge and a delight.

 

I have played WoW since it's launch and several other MMOs, and SWTOR is so far the best on the market imo. Sure it has a few bugs but all MMOs do at launch, lets hope TOR keeps a healthy user base and its popularity continues to climb after launch.

[dozerking]

Preachy post.

 

Regressive system ideas and some of you applaud? Really? This is a 2011 MMO. You should want more not less... Why do some of you still think in terms of EQ1 as it realtes to what we can expect from a MMO?

 

What happened to having fun? What happen to playing the game the way you want? If you do not want to utilize some of these options, then have the willpower to not click that cross server LFG button or speeder or whatever non-sensical restriction you want to have in game.

 

I think all of the preachy comments in this post are one sided and not at all representative of the people's want in game.

 

Be careful with common sense posts, that gets you in trouble around here.

[SooperDaive]

Agreed agreed agreed.

Love permanent choices. Love having to interact with people to find a group.

[Sandanglockta]

This game wants nothing to do with WoW and is building its on community from various MMO's.

 

They want their subs though, as this isn't a non-profit organization. Hardcore gamers don't pay the bills, casuals do. You have to make endgame challenging and compelling enough that the hardcores care about things like world first, but also appeals to the massive population of casuals that fund the cost of developing the challenging stuff.

 

Ironically, Blizz lost the lions share of those subs since Cata dropped. If you listen to people in their forums, it was because... wait for it... it was too hard. Heroic dungeons were TOO HARD. The day they nerfed them in reaction to that outcry a little part of me died, because I knew it was only going to get worse. Fast forward to 4.3, I kill DW in Raid Finder IN WEEK ONE, and then on normal in WEEK TWO.

 

I guess the question is not what WE want, but what does Bioware want - the money or the street cred. I'd like to see em get both, but without resorting to the "Ewok Pet Battle System".

[Ledra]

So many of the complaints I see on these forums seem to correlate with updates Blizzard has made to WoW in the latter half of its existence...

 

Can't re-spec your advanced class? Re-level the advanced class you want! I hope Bioware never lets us automatically play a different class of almost max level because you already have one maxed out character.

 

No group finder? Oh noes, we have to actually speak with people on our server in general chat and can't just group randomly with folks from any server, and quietly run a joke dungeon without any coordination what so ever?

 

Not enough quests to level solo with? Um, grind. Or don't play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online game. Make e-friends, its good for you. God, even WoW had a fairly crappy grind during certain spots in the game. Deal with it.

 

Out-leveling content? I haven't gotten past level 12 yet, but I assume you're allowed to do quests that yield no experience. I could be wrong on this. Yet another thing WoW changed during its reign.

 

Faction Imbalances, how do we remedy them? How about re-roll to the opposite faction. Quit expecting other people to do it instead. Have a guild already you love? Then resign yourself to having long PvP queues. Already level 30 or more? Its only been a few days, it won't take you long to fight your way back up to that level as a reroll. No solutions are made by expecting everyone else to do the dirty work.

 

I just keep seeing, "the game doesn't have this" or "the game doesn't have that", and it all sounds like things that Blizzard changed to WoW, that in many player's opinions, slowly brought about the ruin of the game for people who appreciate a challenge or actually having to take the long way to do something. Blizzard's changes really took away the community aspect of each server, and to me, it took away much of the fun.

 

I think Bioware has done an excellent job so far. I personally hope they don't cave to most of the requests people have made, simply to keep their subs. If you are already unhappy with this game, by all means, please go back and play WoW. The rest of us will thank you when it takes less time to log in to the currently full servers.

 

Obviously there are reasonable requests being thrown around out there. But c'mon, WoW went years without many of the customizable options they have today, and many of us loved the game more back then than we do today. I wish I could say that I played MMOs before WoW, because from what I understand, things like death penalties, farming mobs for days to get rare items, were pretty prevalent. And yet, people have incredibly fond memories of those games. Buck up, kids. Or go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

 

/endrant

 

I know right, those lousy whiners are pissing me off as well

[Cancrizans]

Lol I totally agree OP. I could do without a lot of the stuff people are fiending for, it is as if if an MMO doesn't allow you to sit your fat lazy arse in some capital city and just queue up for dungeons(which you then rush through barely interacting with anyone) while munching hot pockets and inhaling red bull like there is no tomorrow, the game is "unfinished".

 

People need to grow the hell up and play a game instead of depending on all these crutches.

 

And the one thing I hope NEVER makes it into this game is those awful easy mode raid helpers like Deadly Boss Mods, OMG I can't even be bothered to look on my screen to see where the fire is, I need an effing alarm to tell me when I am standing in it...or, I can't be bothered to read up on boss mechanics, I need my screen to flash red and a hammer to come out of the monitor and bonk me on the head so I remember to avoid boss x's shi*storm of doom or whatever...give me a break why not just hire someone to play the game for you lol.

[Ledra]

Preachy post.

 

Regressive system ideas and some of you applaud? Really? This is a 2011 MMO. You should want more not less... Why do some of you still think in terms of EQ1 as it realtes to what we can expect from a MMO?

 

What happened to having fun? What happen to playing the game the way you want? If you do not want to utilize some of these options, then have the willpower to not click that cross server LFG button or speeder or whatever non-sensical restriction you want to have in game.

 

I think all of the preachy comments in this post are one sided and not at all representative of the people's want in game.

 

Perhaps because some people enjoy the game more when it resembles EQ1 more then Wow? What does these features have to do with having fun while playing it? You are the ones trying to change the game into something it isnt or doesnt have. So your arguments really works on yourself. Go play another game that has all the stuff you want of an '2011 MMO'. And leave this one to us who enjoys it for what it is.

[JKhayos]

They want their subs though, as this isn't a non-profit organization. Hardcore gamers don't pay the bills, casuals do. You have to make endgame challenging and compelling enough that the hardcores care about things like world first, but also appeals to the massive population of casuals that fund the cost of developing the challenging stuff.

 

Ironically, Blizz lost the lions share of those subs since Cata dropped. If you listen to people in their forums, it was because... wait for it... it was too hard. Heroic dungeons were TOO HARD. The day they nerfed them in reaction to that outcry a little part of me died, because I knew it was only going to get worse. Fast forward to 4.3, I kill DW in Raid Finder IN WEEK ONE, and then on normal in WEEK TWO.

 

I guess the question is not what WE want, but what does Bioware want - the money or the street cred. I'd like to see em get both, but without resorting to the "Ewok Pet Battle System".

 

But the LFR is a SMASHING success, and all the people who have been playing for years and never saw an endboss are seeing them! That means people will keep playing, right?

 

Right?

 

Please no ezmode in this game. Balance, sure. Fair, definitely. EZmode, "lol we're gonna nerf the crap out of the content til it's sad" please, no.

[dozerking]

Perhaps because some people enjoy the game more when it resembles EQ1 more then Wow? What does these features have to do with having fun while playing it? You are the ones trying to change the game into something it isnt or doesnt have. So your arguments really works on yourself. Go play another game that has all the stuff you want of an '2011 MMO'. And leave this one to us who enjoys it for what it is.

 

I have a brilliant idea. DON'T USE MODS OR A LFG TOOL!! Solved!

 

Most people want and enjoy a LFG tool, as their playtime is restricted due to RL issues like work and kids, and they just want to hop on and play for the small amount of time they have available, not spam chat looking for a group for 20 mins.

[Toxilium]

The dungeons are a joke though, even without a LFG.

[luisgmandavar]

I agree with OP. The thing that was fun in WoW was the exploration, the achievement of doing something that took a bit of time (running from wetlands to Stormwind the first time as an NE) or just simply the build up of excitement when you traveled the location of the dungeon with your guild mates/friends or simply people you met. WoW lost its appeal to people that like to achieve something more than just "queue" up and stand in the main city untill you have enough badges to buy new gear.

 

ToR has everything that wow used to have plus more...and i really hope Bioware doesnt change anything just because of the "lazy" people that dont want t put time into the game...remember guys its an MMO...

[mysticdragon]

Making "WoW like" changes to appeal to the loudest players is what brought Star Wars Galaxies to it's knees

 

 

The Sony NERF bat yo-yo is what brought Star Wars Galaxies to its knees. Just sayin'

 

Don't let Sony anywhere near this game and we should be good >.<

[Kalfear]

So many of the complaints I see on these forums seem to correlate with updates Blizzard has made to WoW in the latter half of its existence...

 

Can't re-spec your advanced class? Re-level the advanced class you want! I hope Bioware never lets us automatically play a different class of almost max level because you already have one maxed out character.

 

No group finder? Oh noes, we have to actually speak with people on our server in general chat and can't just group randomly with folks from any server, and quietly run a joke dungeon without any coordination what so ever?

 

Not enough quests to level solo with? Um, grind. Or don't play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online game. Make e-friends, its good for you. God, even WoW had a fairly crappy grind during certain spots in the game. Deal with it.

 

Out-leveling content? I haven't gotten past level 12 yet, but I assume you're allowed to do quests that yield no experience. I could be wrong on this. Yet another thing WoW changed during its reign.

 

Faction Imbalances, how do we remedy them? How about re-roll to the opposite faction. Quit expecting other people to do it instead. Have a guild already you love? Then resign yourself to having long PvP queues. Already level 30 or more? Its only been a few days, it won't take you long to fight your way back up to that level as a reroll. No solutions are made by expecting everyone else to do the dirty work.

 

I just keep seeing, "the game doesn't have this" or "the game doesn't have that", and it all sounds like things that Blizzard changed to WoW, that in many player's opinions, slowly brought about the ruin of the game for people who appreciate a challenge or actually having to take the long way to do something. Blizzard's changes really took away the community aspect of each server, and to me, it took away much of the fun.

 

I think Bioware has done an excellent job so far. I personally hope they don't cave to most of the requests people have made, simply to keep their subs. If you are already unhappy with this game, by all means, please go back and play WoW. The rest of us will thank you when it takes less time to log in to the currently full servers.

 

Obviously there are reasonable requests being thrown around out there. But c'mon, WoW went years without many of the customizable options they have today, and many of us loved the game more back then than we do today. I wish I could say that I played MMOs before WoW, because from what I understand, things like death penalties, farming mobs for days to get rare items, were pretty prevalent. And yet, people have incredibly fond memories of those games. Buck up, kids. Or go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

 

/endrant

 

Honestly the biggest draw back im seeing from WOW is player ability! I STILL see complaints game to hard and you dont level fast enough or get enough XP and it makes me want to reach trhough computer and thottloe the kid.

 

This game is boarderline to easy. Its right on the edge wavering on becoming mindless godmode WOW was and as much as I love the story, that would make myself cancel.

 

In beta I skipped 60% of the content from Tatooine on just to keep planets at level and I can already tell im going to grey out Taris long before Im finished the planet and the little WOWsters sit there and spam how great that is!

 

Said it before and say it again, WOW completely destroyed this genre and while TOR a step in right direct, Im praying I dont burn through content to quickly in all 8 storylines cause thats what would cause me not to be subbed 2 years from now.

 

EASY MODE is NOT long life mode to a MMORPG.

WOW was the ONE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE!

NOT THE RULE!

[Jenesar]

Wow. Surprised so many have responded on this.

 

Remember when epics were actually epic? I do. Because it actually took time, coordination, and effort. Sure, raids in vanilla WoW excluded the casual player, but I guess I've never viewed MMOs as casual games.

 

Its not that I don't want Bioware to pursue progression. I just don't want them to take away two major facets of MMOs, achievement and socialization. I used to walk around Orgrimmar when BWL came out and gawk at the awesome gear folks were wearing. These days it really doesn't matter. Heck, I was proud to hit level 60 on my first toon in WoW. And for me, socialization is absolutely necessary for having fun in an MMO. Contrary to what many people who don't play MMOs tend to believe, we do enjoy meeting other people and socializing. We may never see eachother in real life, but it doesn't matter, our identity is really our online avatar when we play.

 

That all being said, I have no doubt that Bioware/EA will cave to the financial pressures of potentially losing their casual fanbase. I just hope they don't give in all at once. I have some faith of this since they didn't listen to everyone who didn't get into to early access on Day 1. They stuck to their guns.

 

Thank you all for offering your opinions on this subject, its definitely been interesting to read.

[Cancrizans]

I agree with OP. The thing that was fun in WoW was the exploration, the achievement of doing something that took a bit of time (running from wetlands to Stormwind the first time as an NE) or just simply the build up of excitement when you traveled the location of the dungeon with your guild mates/friends or simply people you met. WoW lost its appeal to people that like to achieve something more than just "queue" up and stand in the main city untill you have enough badges to buy new gear.

 

ToR has everything that wow used to have plus more...and i really hope Bioware doesnt change anything just because of the "lazy" people that dont want t put time into the game...remember guys its an MMO...

 

Great post. That was the essence of what made WoW a fun game. I also remember the run to Stormwind and the excitement of traveling to Scarlet Monastery before you could summon...had to ride through Horde territory and there was always Horde outside the instance, you got a lot of fun PvP as well as the fun of running the instance, good times.

 

Being able to just queue up for dungeons robs these games of the mystery and excitement they used to have. It makes them just retarded process oriented gear grabs, all about materialism, arrogance, braggadocio and other forms of retardation rather than the thrilling adventures they should be.

 

A game that fosters exploration and community based interaction is a game that brings people together and creates something magical. A game that fosters hypercompetitive, redundant gear chasing and status mongering creates a community of alienated, aggressive people who just sap the fun out of everything and drag the game down to the point there is little fun to be had anymore.

 

I really hope Bioware appreciates these things and does NOT do to this game what Blizzard did to theirs for the sake of more subs and appeasing the demands of a vocal minority.

[dartanisc]

At OP:

 

If you dont like the improvements to the game that people have suggested, I suggest you go back to Aion or w/e fail MMO you came from. Don't need players like you round here jack.

 

 

/end rant

[OsarionRDM]

Totally agree with OP. WoW has created a bunch of crybabies and released them back into the gaming community.