Capt_Beers Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hey Guys, So it seems some people are (or someone is) complaining about commando healing. As a commando healer myself (Pepperr from the screenshot ) I have to say, there is nothing wrong with it. Now, I like knowing what's going on in a wz numberwise, so I log every wz I enter. Lucky me, I found the log of this particular warzone. Note that the healing is higher because overhealing isn't taken into account. Please look at the total damage taken in the 'Damage Taken' tab. Enjoy, and accept commando healers are a viable class for ranked. I don't think I can do more than this to prove the class's worth, if you're still not convinced, fine, avoid commando healers, I look forward to cross server queue'ing. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/98122424-1e2e-4499-855f-bb11b1bbd36b/overview#d=0,b=1 The OP's point is still there. You spent half your healing on yourself. The OP didn't say Commando's can't put up numbers it's just that they tend to put those numbers up on themselves. It is pretty difficult to get away as Commando. I don't think it would to much to ask for to have an interrupt or some kind of escape mechanism. Almost every class has one. At the very least Concussion Charge should function like the Smugglers Pulse Detonator, rooting the target instead of just a slow. Smugglers (I'm not picking on Smugglers, I'm just familiar with them as I also have a Gunslinger) have an instant mezz, an instant stun, an instant interrupt and the cover mechanic to keep them from getting interrupted/leaped/pulled plus diversion (Gunslingers/Sniper) to lower accuracy and hunker down to prevent CC. That's quite a tool box compared to the Merc/Comm. I play my commando healer and I love the class. I love my character. I just wish BW did too. P.S. I'm not hating on Pepperr just saying imagine what he could have done with one more tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 The OP's point is still there. You spent half your healing on yourself. The OP didn't say Commando's can't put up numbers it's just that they tend to put those numbers up on themselves. It is pretty difficult to get away as Commando. I don't think it would to much to ask for to have an interrupt or some kind of escape mechanism. Almost every class has one. At the very least Concussion Charge should function like the Smugglers Pulse Detonator, rooting the target instead of just a slow. Smugglers (I'm not picking on Smugglers, I'm just familiar with them as I also have a Gunslinger) have an instant mezz, an instant stun, an instant interrupt and the cover mechanic to keep them from getting interrupted/leaped/pulled plus diversion (Gunslingers/Sniper) to lower accuracy and hunker down to prevent CC. That's quite a tool box compared to the Merc/Comm. I play my commando healer and I love the class. I love my character. I just wish BW did too. P.S. I'm not hating on Pepperr just saying imagine what he could have done with one more tool. imagine what sorc could do with an uninterruptable bubble, or spammable instant cast heal. imagine what an operative could do with force speed, or a friendly pull. you can do this with every class. but it doesnt make sense to, because each class is balanced appropriately for the tools its been given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 imagine what sorc could do with an uninterruptable bubble, or spammable instant cast heal. imagine what an operative could do with force speed, or a friendly pull. you can do this with every class. but it doesnt make sense to, because each class is balanced appropriately for the tools its been given. I'm just saying almost every class has the tools the Commando and then some extra ones. To get an interrupt that's not on a double digit cool down you sink 12 points into Gunnery, which cuts you off from bacta infusion which has been the difference between me/person I'm healing respawning or getting off an extra heal. I'd be all for moving Concussive Force down a tier to make it more accessible for healers. I don't think that would throw the class out of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoskyx Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Give Combat Medics a snare/root and I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularky Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I can show you loads of screenshots where I outheal sages and scoundrels. Because I can just stand there and heal, I have more time to do it. That's the advantage. Yes sages are really annoying, certainly with there 21/../.. builds, but the fact is, they either go 31/../.. and die often, so have low numbers. Or they could go 21/../.. and spend all there time running around the map, and have nerfed healing in the little time they have to freecast. Short answer: They bring more healing. please teach me how to play. make a video please not to get off topic commandos do need some ammo changes also Edited July 3, 2012 by Mularky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Stocker Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 you can do this with every class. but it doesnt make sense to, because each class is balanced appropriately for the tools its been given. i really think you need to give healing a proper try, and look at it compared to abilities of smugglers. Definately not saying anything negative about the guys screenshot, hes done great. but i really dont see how you can try to argue that the classes are balanced. Like the OP said, imagine what else he could of done if he had a variety of stuns/interupts and slows like the other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularky Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 i really think you need to give healing a proper try, and look at it compared to abilities of smugglers. Definately not saying anything negative about the guys screenshot, hes done great. but i really dont see how you can try to argue that the classes are balanced. Like the OP said, imagine what else he could of done if he had a variety of stuns/interupts and slows like the other classes. You are right there need to be alot of adjustments made to the class. After 1.2 bioware kinda just threw us under the bus with the damage buff and healing not being the same as damage. As Commandos medics we run out of ammo waaaaay to fast now and not mention when you get 3 dps on you A commando should be able to out heal at least 3 dps. We wear heavy armor i just should go into the warzone naked to save the enemy team the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediDuckling Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I was wondering if any dev could answer a simple question? Any plans on improving healing for this tree. Since the 1.2 cut on healing the commando medic has been pretty hard to heal with. I speak in terms of healing others while having to deal with cc,interupts and in general people attacking you. Most of the time I find myself having to focus alot of heals on just me due to the lack of mobility and the inability to effectively cc a class that is attacking me. What I would like to see is another heal with less cast time or change over Kolto bomb to a actual true AOE. Hitting just 5 people in a small area seems like a waste of ammo sometimes. I feel it should heal anyone in the AOE circle like a true AOE should. Anyway this isnt really a complaint session about their healing its more of a question. I would just like to see a bit more mobility for my class while healing. Hammer shot doesnt count FYI, unless you have it hit for larger numbers. commando/mercs are the weakest class's to play as they are pretty much free kills,they keep getting nerfed lol i totaly agree they need a buff specialy in the healing department and who ever says they are fine are proberly the noobs that prey they get a pug team of commando's or mercs so they get easy wins lol. /signed on buffing commando's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Stocker Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 its also laughable in bioware's attempt to balance when it took them several months until 1.2 to give us an incombat res, the only healers not to have them. Whos stupid idea was that to leave us out? stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DroidDreamer Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Exactally my point. Focus heals on myself is not doing the rest of the team any good. I can sit there all day long and have someone pound on me. I can kite and kite and kite but to do that I have to heal just myself. In a team game such as ranked WZ's or just normal WZ's the commando lacks the ability to be both mobile to kite and to heal team members. That's pretty rough. I find I can heal on the run while kiting with my sorc. Not as effective as popping the big heals while stationary, but I can drop Static Barrier and other mobile heals while keeping one guy occupied on me for a while using talented Affliction snare, Force Slow, Knockback + Root (plus LOS breakage while they're rooted using the environment), plus force speed, plus stuns. I'm surprised by how often they give up. And even when they don't I'm able to get off lots of heals before death. Can't wait to try out this class though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hey Guys, So it seems some people are (or someone is) complaining about commando healing. As a commando healer myself (Pepperr from the screenshot ) I have to say, there is nothing wrong with it. Now, I like knowing what's going on in a wz numberwise, so I log every wz I enter. Lucky me, I found the log of this particular warzone. Note that the healing is higher because overhealing isn't taken into account. Please look at the total damage taken in the 'Damage Taken' tab. Enjoy, and accept commando healers are a viable class for ranked. I don't think I can do more than this to prove the class's worth, if you're still not convinced, fine, avoid commando healers, I look forward to cross server queue'ing. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/98122424-1e2e-4499-855f-bb11b1bbd36b/overview#d=0,b=1 One warzone of high numbers means nothing. Sorry but to have to base a team around a healing class is just retarded. Sure I can get the same heal numbers even without a guard but that only happens against undergeared crappy players. Anyone who is good and who knows their class can take a commando healer right out of the WZ. Posting screen shots and vidoes on how elite your heals are does no good for the class as a whole. People are just going to say hey look at that guy and all his numbers, why cant you play like that? Well for one I dont have a guard bot and frankly I think its a waste to guard a commando healer. We have no ability to heal on the run nor do we have options with heals once a marauder locks down our main heal for 4 seconds. I can toss advanced medical out there. a crap aoe and a instant heal but what good does that do when they can bring you down to 60 percent after one ravage. Anyway the class need more utility like I have been trying to say all along. The commando is a turret healer and a subpar one at that against any good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I can show you loads of screenshots where I outheal sages and scoundrels. Because I can just stand there and heal, I have more time to do it. That's the advantage. Yes sages are really annoying, certainly with there 21/../.. builds, but the fact is, they either go 31/../.. and die often, so have low numbers. Or they could go 21/../.. and spend all there time running around the map, and have nerfed healing in the little time they have to freecast. Short answer: They bring more healing. Again screen shots of one warzone with high healing numbers means nothing. What was your teams kill to death ratio. How much of your heal numbers were self healing? Anyone that has a half a brain knows not to let a commando free cast because we dont have any healing mobility. More over in Rated Warzones where the players are at a much higher level a green light show commando sticks out like a beacon saying kill me now or just cc me into the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 imagine what sorc could do with an uninterruptable bubble, or spammable instant cast heal. imagine what an operative could do with force speed, or a friendly pull. you can do this with every class. but it doesnt make sense to, because each class is balanced appropriately for the tools its been given. You show me where the balance is when my main heal is only hitting for 2-3k on a 1.7 cast time which can only be cast 5 times before you run out of ammo. Also show me where the balance is when a marauder can lock down that heal for 4 seconds, what does the commando have after that. Lets just say for this instance your bubble is down, your knockback is down, and your cryonade is down also. What do you have as tools to survive the next four seconds? Advanced medical probe? Well great I will cast that now its on cool down, OK well I have my instant heal. Well now thats on cool down too. Hey great I can get back to my main heal after droping a POS Kolto Bomb, but now the marauder has me down to half health. Well here we go casting 1.7 seconds. OOOOOPSSS you just got force choked. GOOD BYE Commando medic. Thats what happens every single time becuase the class is a one trick pony with no ultility. When we have everyone on cooldown we are just a meat sac taking a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayakin Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 this is a funny thread really ppl assuming this and that AC is bad in ranked, this and that Ac needs OPing/NERFing simple truth is, evrey class is only as good as the PLAYER using it yh so u say commando doesnt have all UTILITY of other classes, like "what can he do besides healing?" it is like asking "hey what can a sent/mara do beside DPSing?", well ****, does it need to do anything else? i didnt see anyone here asking some commandos/mercs post their ranked prowess, just ppl assuming they are really bad from the start because they cant speed or pull etc so ill be the one asking Pepperr (seeing that everyone here is considering getting big heals in one game is not really relevant) to show us his ranking, maybe give us his Ranked Win/Loss numbers pretty sure theres nothing more relevant than that juzz my 2 cents, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Looks like you have never played a Healing class in this game. It takes way more skill than you will ever have to play a Commando healer and be productive. Which I am. The whole point of the post is to have a bit more mobility to heal others in my group rather than having to focus heal myself when I have just one person on me. If you knew how to play then you would know that one dps can cc or stop my spell cast making my TWO healing casts rendered usless when trying to heal others. Let me guess you play a lightsaber weilding 3 button class You're incorrect, I have one of each healer in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovokor Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 IMO a minor mobility buff is due for CM The comparative lack of mobility exposes Commando Medic as inferior choice to scoundrel in Ranked warzones. Normal warzone play into the CM style and are great. LOL I've even face-tanked 3 players in VS tunnel until they gave up and moved on. Similar situations have happened a few times now but it means as much as random screenshots with very little context. Ranked is different kettle of fish & the CM mobile heals are very situational & on long timers. If you are kiting ( Bacta Infusion 18 s / Tech Override 2 min / Kolto bomb - weak ) would allow CM overcome the initial barrage and heal allies as you kite coordinated ranked DPS. After that point effectiveness drops dramatically. Totally different outcome for scoundrel healers who perform pretty linear as they kite. Seems very suited for ranked. I think sage and CM pretty close but Sage has strong utility in certain warzones. Overall i don't think CM is broken or anything and very strong teams could even afford to have one. But equal skill level, its a hard sell over taking scoundrel if factoring in utility / non self healing / how long it takes to kill competent scoundrels. Ultimately its about effectiveness and winning. If Commando healers were on par you would see a slew of top teams running Double Commando Medic healers. I have not seen this. Sincerely do share if you are part of this setup or know of such teams. I really have no issues picking up pointers or something i am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grodr Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I mainly play healers in every mmo, and in the previous mmo I had every single healer available. I also have lots of experience as dps class on alts, and ofcourse I always go straight for the healers and shut them down in warzones. Healer perspective: - I play a merc bodyguard, and if I dont have guard or teamates peeling dps off me, I have a hard time keeping myself up let alone my teamates. Its playable...but it definitely is more frustrating than it is pleasant to play. If im let unattended I can pump out good numbers (but so can any healer or dps left alone or not killed). So this class is good when left alone, and terribly frustrating when focused on. We got no realible cc (1 with cast and big cd), no effective escape or kiting mechanisms, no efficient and realibe "on the run" healing (we must be facing our mates most of the time for zero heat heal ticks) Dps perspective: - I find it extremely easy to kill merc healers, they cant kite me or cc me, and I can interrupt all of their heals, except healing scan which has a cd. But most importantly while im on these healers they cant heal anyone else They only manage to sustain dmg with their shield up+30 stacks then its game over - Op healers are most hard to kill, basically because they are so mobile(can go around structures and avoid dmg) while being heal efficient(heals over time vs cast), and have good cc with short cd... It takes a lot longer to kill them and get wz objectives like turrets and placing bombs. In the end of the day, people claiming that merc healing is 100% fine, your definition of fine applies to the other dps classes and healer classes too? In that logic Op healing is 140% fine. I help my wz team alot more when I dont bring my merc, and bring something else even in lesser gear. Edited July 4, 2012 by Grodr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What can you do as a BH or Commando healer? What Kite? How do that help to heal your group? This is the point I am trying to make. One dps can hold a BH/Commando healer on lock down. I have to focus all heals on myself with the hope that someone comes back to kill the guy thats on me. That is a total failure for heal mechanics. So does EVERY SINGLE OTHER HEALER. The issue isn't the class here. The issue is you have a crap team that doesn't know how to peel enemies off their healers. Every healer has to concentrate on themselves to stay alive when they start getting focused. This isn't something unique to a commando medic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_P Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hellow all, I'd like to make a final statement on this thread. With peoples points or arguments changing with every counter argument given I think it's pointless following up and adding to this thread much more. Although I don't like the 'bragging' this seems to be needed to get my point across. We run a ranked with 2 commando healers on the red eclipse, one of the best populated pve servers in the eu. A ranking of 2061 and win-loss of 89-3 seems pretty fair to me. Now somoeone wants to get the commando healer more utility? Although I personally don't think we need it, sure, keep this thread well alive. Lets hope the devs make commando's an even stronger healing class. People think commando's aren't a viable rated AC as healers? If anything the commando's are much more viable in ranked than in non-ranked. In non-ranked I don't get half as much stuns and interrupts as in ranked. But instead of seeing them as a burden, they're a blessing to my ammo management. I know how weird it sounds, but it's true. I do a lot less healing when freecasting. The class and my playstyle just aren't build for it. People that think they need to get away from a fight first and then start healing (although it might work for some), I advise them to rethink how they play the class. Cheers, Pepperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) mercs/commandos also heal just fine on the move btw, I am constantly healing with my rapid shots for 1200 a second.. lol i can spam it on the run, show me another class that can do that. sorry but i was in this crowd of "mercs suck , blah blah blah " but they don't, I have full battle master on my merc healer, and i am excelling, The class is extremely gear dependent unfortunately, maybe the people complaining about mercs have very bad gear? also anyone that casts concussion round is doing it wrong in my opinion, use the cd to make it instant and bam! instant long stun. also, the knockback snares those it knocks back, giving you ample time to get away and get at least 3 heals off before people are near you again. mercs are fine, but heck i am with pepperr, lets give us a buff and make the good ones unstoppable, and the bad ones last 2 secs more. lol one thing i want changed though is the trooper animation for hammer shot heals... it is AWFUL, nothing says HEY PUGS I IS A HEALER ATTACK ME better than a bright green arrow to me... make it like rapid shots where it heals by the bolts.... PLEASE! Edited July 4, 2012 by TheRiddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hellow all, I'd like to make a final statement on this thread. With peoples points or arguments changing with every counter argument given I think it's pointless following up and adding to this thread much more. Although I don't like the 'bragging' this seems to be needed to get my point across. We run a ranked with 2 commando healers on the red eclipse, one of the best populated pve servers in the eu. A ranking of 2061 and win-loss of 89-3 seems pretty fair to me. Now somoeone wants to get the commando healer more utility? Although I personally don't think we need it, sure, keep this thread well alive. Lets hope the devs make commando's an even stronger healing class. People think commando's aren't a viable rated AC as healers? If anything the commando's are much more viable in ranked than in non-ranked. In non-ranked I don't get half as much stuns and interrupts as in ranked. But instead of seeing them as a burden, they're a blessing to my ammo management. I know how weird it sounds, but it's true. I do a lot less healing when freecasting. The class and my playstyle just aren't build for it. People that think they need to get away from a fight first and then start healing (although it might work for some), I advise them to rethink how they play the class. Cheers, Pepperr 89 and 3? Damn must be nice to get ranked pops lol. I'm 23-2 and people on our server stopped queuing for ranked like 4 days after 1.3 launched lol. Now its like 2-3 teams queuing here and there and we sit around for two hours before we even get a pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularky Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 So does EVERY SINGLE OTHER HEALER. The issue isn't the class here. The issue is you have a crap team that doesn't know how to peel enemies off their healers. Every healer has to concentrate on themselves to stay alive when they start getting focused. This isn't something unique to a commando medic. No the issue is we have 3 ******* heals. Each easily interrupted and you think the class is fine. We need to stop blaming the issue on pugs or the enemy team. WE HAVE a huge problem with this class and it needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 No the issue is we have 3 ******* heals. Each easily interrupted and you think the class is fine. We need to stop blaming the issue on pugs or the enemy team. WE HAVE a huge problem with this class and it needs to be addressed. Tell that to the unkillable commandos on my server in rated matches then. There are several commando/merc healers on my server that rated teams are absolutely terrified of because it WILL take you 3-4 people to drop them. Simply put, your issues ARE a L2P issue as well as team issues. All healers being focused have to concentrate on themselves to survive. It's the reason why my rated group swaps targets when we see the healer concentrating on himself. We swap between healers and force them to heal themselves and wear them down little by little instead of just trying to take one down at a time. Eventually cross healing will take its tole and dps on their team will be out in the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Commando/Merc heals are fine Operative/Scoundrel heals are extremely strong in PVP Sorc/Sage heals are crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexlo Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It would be cool if Sweeping Blasters/Hail of bolts was an AOE heal if Allies stand in it. (It would be cool if it gave you gas charges as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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