Temper temper!

[Tkara]

What a nice post! Playing a game is supposed to be fun.

 

/cheer Xib

[Ashania]

Why? There is NO excuse - none, nada. Bear in mind, I am talking about lvl 50 pvp so by this stage, everyone should have an idea of how to play, the maps, what is involved, how to defend. I work damn hard in pvp to secure a win and if I see something stupid - I just leave the war zone as its not worth my time investment.

 

You'd think right? Was in a 10-49 huttball yesterday and a level 48 got the ball, wandered aimlessly in the middle getting beat on until they eventually died, ran out of the spawn and stood on our end zone typing 'where do you score this thing?' and then got leapt to and the enemy team scored.

 

After about 7 minutes of mindless play they said 'this wzs sh**'. That person was level 48, not long until he is in the big boy league, and I cant see him having an idea of the maps/what is involved/how to defend or how to play in general by then.

[xibxang]

Careful I might blush.

Maybe before entering a warzone theres needs to be one question

'Do you play to win or for fun?'

A- Win

B- Fun - whisked away to a cotton wool Sims esq war zone where you can sit down and swap recipes of Jawa Juice

Now that's not quite fair, man. It's a given that we all like winning but there's a good number of people in the world who still have fun when they lose, no matter what the activity is.

 

And take me for example. I'm absolutely still learning PvP although I'm making progress with my skills. My experience just now is trying to emulate the things I'm seeing on YouTube and reading on various forums. I've broken down the various elements of Assassin PvP play (like stealth escapes, circle strafing and the rest) and I'm repeating them over and over until I can perform them without tying my sausage fingers in knots.

 

So at this stage in my PvP "career", I'm getting a big kick out of getting something right. I'm practising these skills really hard in the context of a team game and it feels great to pull off something that helps defend or capture a door, strategic point or whatever. If the team loses - well that's not the preferred finish - but hey, I did XYZ and learned something new so that's great. Now let's move onto learning the next trick.

 

This, for me, is the "fun" aspect of SWTOR PvP. Does that make me less of a player? I really don't think so.

[wishihadaname]

Amen to you OP! I had feared that polite people no longer inhabited these forums, or the game for that matter. For my part I find it amusing when someone rages about a loss, particularly when I, being the dastardly operative I am, restealth at the end of a failed attack instead of respawning like everyone else. These sorts of people often also ignore you immediately after filling you screen with tells about how terrible you are for whatever you did (in my case surviving). There really is no reason to put so much ego behind a video game, after all there is literally nothing on the line when you pvp, it's not like your premade rating affects your paycheck, or whether your significant other stays with you. And yet people even in this thread go on as if losing is the greatest tragedy of their young lives. I honestly hope for their sake that it is. For my part I play for epic firefights and close call duels, don't really care about wins now that I have my gear.

[Niddhog]

The chance that one player completely wrecks your team is quite small. Often it's just the entire composition, the lack of communication or when the other team is just plain better. I haven't seen a single time, when one player completely wrecked the otherwise godmade team.

 

Also, swearing and raging at someone you think is bad isn't exactly going to make him improve. I don't know what age you came from, but today encouragement and good advice are often the things that help improve someone.

 

The thread is about controlling your temper. It's not about the potential bad player in your team. It's about you. In essence, you're exactly doing here what you probaly also do in Warzones: shoving it on someone else.

 

Thats just it, "encouragement and good advice" typically mean jack ****. Most of the times I (constructively) try to help someone I get either apathy or a "**** off." Its rare when the person actually takes the advice. It just baffles me that a lot of people seem to have no concept of improvement... I came to pvp late and my first several games were nothing but watching/experimenting/learning. Stealthed on the other side of a fire gate... stun kicked someone into toast? Hell yeah! I'll ambush too. Oh ****, I spent too much time trying to ambush and hurt my team... need to learn how to set that up better, etc. I learned damn near everything to know about the first few WZ (and pvp) by around valor 15-20... I'll admit it took me a little while to learn the finesse of taking a node w/out killing everyone (say luring someone out of LoS of VS door while team-mate caps, use of CC to interfere with other team while someone caps). Most of that was learned by how damned futile it is to try and kill everyone before assaulting a point... that almost never works.

[DarthMaulUK]

Now that's not quite fair, man. It's a given that we all like winning but there's a good number of people in the world who still have fun when they lose, no matter what the activity is.

 

And take me for example. I'm absolutely still learning PvP although I'm making progress with my skills. My experience just now is trying to emulate the things I'm seeing on YouTube and reading on various forums. I've broken down the various elements of Assassin PvP play (like stealth escapes, circle strafing and the rest) and I'm repeating them over and over until I can perform them without tying my sausage fingers in knots.

 

So at this stage in my PvP "career", I'm getting a big kick out of getting something right. I'm practising these skills really hard in the context of a team game and it feels great to pull off something that helps defend or capture a door, strategic point or whatever. If the team loses - well that's not the preferred finish - but hey, I did XYZ and learned something new so that's great. Now let's move onto learning the next trick.

 

This, for me, is the "fun" aspect of SWTOR PvP. Does that make me less of a player? I really don't think so.

 

Theres a bit of a difference learning to play and actually using the brain when playing. Most of the time, it boils down to common sense. Take Huttball - the amount of times I have seen people on the ledge waiting for a pass, and those closer by dont knock them off or anything - they get a pass, clown at top puts resolve on full and they score.

 

And yes, playing for fun is welcome thats why I think my idea of a question will work. But overall, people never consider those who play to win and want to have fun doing so. Yes games are about fun but when you introduce an element of competitiveness like warzones, especially when some folk are grinding coms, it just adds to the woes when it goes wrong.

 

Either way, if people dont like the abuse - there is an ignore function.

[DarthMaulUK]

Amen to you OP! I had feared that polite people no longer inhabited these forums, or the game for that matter. For my part I find it amusing when someone rages about a loss, particularly when I, being the dastardly operative I am, restealth at the end of a failed attack instead of respawning like everyone else. These sorts of people often also ignore you immediately after filling you screen with tells about how terrible you are for whatever you did (in my case surviving). There really is no reason to put so much ego behind a video game, after all there is literally nothing on the line when you pvp, it's not like your premade rating affects your paycheck, or whether your significant other stays with you. And yet people even in this thread go on as if losing is the greatest tragedy of their young lives. I honestly hope for their sake that it is. For my part I play for epic firefights and close call duels, don't really care about wins now that I have my gear.

If you approach things with a half baked mentality, you cant expect to win. Thus, spoiling the experience for those who DO want to win.

 

There's two sides of this debate and I have just voiced mine.

[Sith-lord]

I like to win. I get pissed when I lose. But I'll tell you what- Nothing makes me LOL more than when "MMO Bad *** PvP Guy" starts ************ at other players. If I feel like playing that serious, I'll just premade group with guildmates. When you PUG, you deal with PUG players- It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

Either way I hope you continue to rage on ragers, because: 1. I know it'll never be directed at me, and 2. I always enjoy a hearty laugh at people being silly people in MMOs and in life generally.

[elountis]

In the End, you win some and you lose some. You cannot win every single match you play and you will always run with a player that "could play better". Offer that player advice instead of attacking them. In the end, this game has ZERO effect on the real world.

[Damastes]

For the record, it is quite easy to take winning seriously and keep firmly in mind that you are playing a game with and against real people. It's called having perspective, and you have lost it if a bad warzone causes you to treat other players like crap.

 

I stop taking people seriously the moment they become abusive in chat, because such people care more about venting than they do about winning. My reasoning is simple: If you cared more about winning than you did about yourself, you would open a dialogue with the offending player--after the warzone is perfectly fine, as you're likely to see them again--in a manner in which he was most likely to be receptive to "learning to play" (as you saw it). You do not do that by being abusive in chat. In fact, there are few ways you could more turn a player off to being willing to listen to you.

 

I can hear the objection: "I tried that. They never listened." First off, I'll smother my skepticism, and then simply say that how you act when you don't get what you want says a great deal about you. And I see it in warzones too frequently.

[xibxang]

I think it's becoming abundantly clear that those of us who maintain level-headedness in PvP WZs are also eloquent, clever, respectful and constructive participants in forum chat.

 

A quick skim of the pages of this thread reveal with abundance the unequivocal truth that we are clearly ranking high in the ratio of word count vs. good content. I feel confident in my claim that it's indubitable that our belief in the simple maxim of "common courtesy costs nothing" is elevating us to forum hero status.

 

Great job, team. Be sure to never let your abilities get to your head, though. It's important that we remain engaged with the little people so that we can further our designs of exposing as many as we can to our conduct.

[Malimoo]

I'll Admit to raging a bit in WZ's

 

but usually i don't start until after i try to help some one and they put me on ignore, or some other insulting ignorant uncaring remark.

 

WZ's should be fun, I agree, but when i see everyone on my team with less than 14k hp i know I'm in for a rough game...

 

Also you can be good, and still get f***'d over in this games, if the other team puts a mark on the people that know how to play vs just the healers. and nuke the marks down first it becomes even more painful.

 

btw Ranged dps should help dps the healers too!

 

my 2 cents

[Parali]

Greetings everyone,

 

We had to remove several posts due to rude remarks and derailing arguments, so we wanted to remind everyone that we do expect everyone to be polite and respectful. This can be especially important when disagreeing, and while some in this thread have managed this quite well, others resorted to personal attacks.

 

Derailing arguments happen when members get caught up in separate exchanges, usually between one or two other members. If you find your post focuses more on another member's behavior rather than contributing to the OP, you may be in danger of derailing. If you believe someone is breaking the rules, it is better to Report that post rather than continue to Reply, as this often results in off-topic arguing.

 

Please keep in mind that in the clean-up process, some posts have been removed or edited not because they themselves were rule-breaking, but because they replied to the chain of removed posts.

 

Thank you and please continue the constructive discussion about warzone behavior!

 

[Ashivauto]

I laugh at the ragers, its funny.... The funniest thing about a rager who is getting all bent out of shape and saying his team mates suck etc.... is he/she is usually the weak link of the group with lowest overall stats only topping his group in overall deaths lol

[Vedano]

Guys seriously,

 

 

If you can't handle it then get out. It doesn't make you any less of a man if you accept that PvP isn't for you. It's just wee digital men chasing each other and playing at fighting anyway. It's really not that important after all, eh? Go and do something that puts you at less risk of having a brain haemorrhage . There's a million brilliant video game's out there.

 

It's ironic cause I was going to say soemthing similar to this. I play this game and there are many different facets to this game. There is questing, flash points, ops, warzones, space missions, role playing (if thats your thing) and they are all in one game. That being said, pvp is competitive, and it is meant to be that way. It's not a leisurely quest, its not team vs environment, its players verses players. It's supposed to be competitive and intense. If you are playing warzones to destress and relax you're doing it wrong.

 

I used to play hockey, dek, ice, roller. Never once did I go, "HO HUM, this is so stress free. Thank goodness I don't take this seriously cause I don't care if I win or lose, deedle lee dee." If you don't like competition, then pvp is not for you. It is not for someone to just casually run about and have fun and jump. Just because you don't take it seriously doesn't mean other people can't. You know what the term for someone having an opinion and thinks everyone else should have the same opinion? It's egocentrism. Not everyone is going to think like you, and to expect that is simply absurd.

 

Therefore, if you would like to relax and destress, pvp is not the recommended game of choice. You obviously can if you like, but you have to deal with the competitive nature of players cause you are in our world now. You knowiningly stepped into a competitive game queue and now you expect others to not react to your nonchalant approach. You will never find someone yelling at you to quest faster, or you need to get more items, or you're in the wrong area, you kill mobs like a noob. That's the proper venue for those that want to destress. By playing without a competitive spirit and without trying stresses the other players that want to win. So think about that next time you queue up.

 

If you do queue up again with that mentality, you are basically saying "I destress by making others stress out." Because that is effectively what you are doing. Please don't add stress to a part of the game that inherently has stress to begin with. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Corragio <Crescendo> - The Bastion, Formerly of The Swiftsure

Edited June 30, 2012 by Vedano

[Vaipyr]

A rainbow world full of nice people sounds like a great idea in theory, but its really not what anyone wants.

 

Um, yes, yes it is. It's complete folly to think people would not improve if people aren't *****. Most people actually want to contribute to the "tribe". Most normal, sane people actually feel good about HELPING other people and building them up, not tearing them down. It has nothing to do with needing people to treat them like crap, it's just instinctual. We are social creatures by nature. We have a natural drive to group together and help each other. Then we have people who are some degree of sociopathic that go against this nature and revel in narcissism.

 

Therefore, if you would like to relax and destress, pvp is not the recommended game of choice. You obviously can if you like, but you have to deal with the competitive nature of players cause you are in our world now.

And you were commenting on ego? Again, this is narcissism at work. It's not YOUR world. It's "A" world. Period.

 

You knowiningly stepped into a competitive game queue and now you expect others to not react to your nonchalant approach.

 

There's still no need to act like a tantrum throwing toddler about it and demean and degrade other people. At all. Does not matter if he's an uber noober and runs the ball the wrong way or not, there is NO need to be a dick. Period.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Notannos
language

[HelinCarnate]

Much of the rage I have seen comes from those that suck to begin with.

 

Civil War

If we have 2 turrets and people keep abandoning them, "Please keep 2 at the grass/snow at all times"

 

When 4 people are chasing one guy around in the field trying to kill them while there are still 2 at that turret and mid is calling for help "Ignore him and help mid"

 

Huttball.

"Get ahead of the ball carrier for a pass please"

"Getting back to the middle and getting the ball will clear out our goal faster than trying to kill everyone there"

"Look up"

"Please stay off the ledges when the ball is in our pit" Most times that is followed by a leap and a score. "Or that happens"

"Throw the ball away when you have it by our goal" Most times that is followed by someone crawling at a snails pace with a full resolve bar, while they refuse to pass, followed by their death and a score. "Or that happens."

 

Coast

"When we are trying to take the bunker, please do not stand directly in front of the glowie"

"Please communicate if you are going to leave a bunker open"

 

General

"Please give numbers with incomming, not just HELP!!"

 

All of those statments I have made, and at one time or another, someone has told me to shut up and to stop telling them how to play. Many times to the point of insulting me for pointing out what they were doing wrong.

[Vaipyr]

Much of the rage I have seen comes from those that suck to begin with.

 

Civil War

If we have 2 turrets and people keep abandoning them, "Please keep 2 at the grass/snow at all times"

 

When 4 people are chasing one guy around in the field trying to kill them while there are still 2 at that turret and mid is calling for help "Ignore him and help mid"

 

Huttball.

"Get ahead of the ball carrier for a pass please"

"Getting back to the middle and getting the ball will clear out our goal faster than trying to kill everyone there"

"Look up"

"Please stay off the ledges when the ball is in our pit" Most times that is followed by a leap and a score. "Or that happens"

"Throw the ball away when you have it by our goal" Most times that is followed by someone crawling at a snails pace with a full resolve bar, while they refuse to pass, followed by their death and a score. "Or that happens."

 

Coast

"When we are trying to take the bunker, please do not stand directly in front of the glowie"

"Please communicate if you are going to leave a bunker open"

 

General

"Please give numbers with incomming, not just HELP!!"

 

All of those statments I have made, and at one time or another, someone has told me to shut up and to stop telling them how to play. Many times to the point of insulting me for pointing out what they were doing wrong.

 

If that's how you really talk to your teammates then I applaud you. It's nice to see people that can communicate to their team, suggest things to improve play (etc) properly without just being a caps lock riding raging douche. Kudos. The people that rage out at you for being polite while communicating to them are only worthy of putting on ignore.

[HelinCarnate]

I laugh at the ragers, its funny.... The funniest thing about a rager who is getting all bent out of shape and saying his team mates suck etc.... is he/she is usually the weak link of the group with lowest overall stats only topping his group in overall deaths lol

 

Tends to happen that way when everyone is fighting in corners and they are the only one trying to stop the guy with the ball.

 

Tends to happen that way when the middle turret/bunker needs help and they are one of the few that keep running in to stop the cap, dying because they are outnumbered and repeating while there is a dance party at one turret and others try to take the 3rd, one by one, ignoring the calls for help from the middle.

 

There is one stat that matters and that is the big one at the top that reads Victory or Defeat.

Edited June 30, 2012 by HelinCarnate

[Zoiks]

Much of the rage I have seen comes from those that suck to begin with.

 

To a point, yes. But generally most of the frustration is caused BY the lazy/bad players, the fact that they are often also the ones getting the most upset doesn't change the source of the frustration, just makes it more hypocritcal.

 

People pointing it out though only has the opposite of the intended effect. You make the people doing it at minimum feel bad, at worst you make them act out more. And you make people who are actually trying become frustrated at you for standing around complaining instead of helping.

 

 

In the end the solution is to either premade with people who can help each other without exploding in accusations, or learn to just tell yourself

(Sidenote: The narration at the end of that clip is hilarious when applied to a wz.)

[Ashivauto]

Tends to happen that way when everyone is fighting in corners and they are the only one trying to stop the guy with the ball.

 

Tends to happen that way when the middle turret/bunker needs help and they are one of the few that keep running in to stop the cap, dying because they are outnumbered and repeating while there is a dance party at one turret and others try to take the 3rd, one by one, ignoring the calls for help from the middle.

 

There is one stat that matters and that is the big one at the top that reads Victory or Defeat.

 

I agree with that.... Has happened to me many times, everyone is playing team death match while i continue dying from trying to actually play the objectives.... But those i was referring to are the ones guarding a node who call inc while its being capped coz he thought he could take the inc and then he rages coz no one came to help or the guys who run so far ahead that a pass isnt possible and they call everyone idiot etc... My experience with ragers is they are the one that needs to l2p

[Snettles]

This is where, I believe, the ops leader needs to embrace his/her role and do some basic education and strategy at the beginning of the wz. I do this whenever I'm ops leader, e.g. "ok, we're going snow and mid, one volunteer to come to snow with me to guard, i'll back door mid after snow cap. Be prepared to peel from mid to snow if I call for it. Fight on nodes and make them come to you when defending. Above all, don't freelance and communicate incs early.". Then I lead. I give people orders, instruct certain classes to do what I want them to do, and instruct individuals. But I don't insult anyone ever, I just instruct. Not once has anyone ever had a problem with me for doing that. Even when we lose.

 

By that same token, if I'm not the ops leader, I do what they tell me, even if I don't agree with it. Sometimes I even learn a thing or two. Humility goes a long way sometimes.

[Vaipyr]

This is where, I believe, the ops leader needs to embrace his/her role and do some basic education and strategy at the beginning of the wz. I do this whenever I'm ops leader, e.g. "ok, we're going snow and mid, one volunteer to come to snow with me to guard, i'll back door mid after snow cap. Be prepared to peel from mid to snow if I call for it. Fight on nodes and make them come to you when defending. Above all, don't freelance and communicate incs early.". Then I lead. I give people orders, instruct certain classes to do what I want them to do, and instruct individuals. But I don't insult anyone ever, I just instruct. Not once has anyone ever had a problem with me for doing that. Even when we lose.

 

By that same token, if I'm not the ops leader, I do what they tell me, even if I don't agree with it. Sometimes I even learn a thing or two. Humility goes a long way sometimes.

 

Indeed. Good man.