Uptime Percentages for Oz (based off AEST times)

[Lakhesis]

Lets say I'm an East Coast Australian who works a regular 9-5 job & play SWTOR a lot during my free time.

 

Mon-Fri Work 9am - 5pm, get home at 6pm, play SWTOR from 6pm-11pm, eat & go to bed, getup at 7am & go to work. Repeat. That's 5 hours playing SWTOR a night.

 

Sat-Sun: I spend all my "work time" playing, so 8 hours a day of SWTOR, and the other 8 hours doing the "general living tasks" like mowing the lawn I couldn't fit into the week due to my heavy schedule of SWTOR.

 

That's 5x5 + 2x8 = 25 + 16 = 41 hours a week of SWTOR. Hey, we're dedicated, k?

 

Lets throw in maintenance though. It lasts 5pm-9pm, so that overlaps 3 hours of the play time. Then lets calculate it based off the number of maintenances per week:

 

Regular tuesday maintenance #1 knocks 3hrs / 41hrs = 7.3% of my playtime out.

Maintenance #2: 6hrs / 41hrs = 14.6% of playtime is removed.

Maintenance #3: 9hrs / 41hrs = 21.95% of weekly playtime is gone

If they do it, Maintenance #4 will be: 12hrs / 41hrs = 29.27% of weekly playtime is gone

 

---

 

In conclusion: Are you intending to refund 20% of my access payment for this week?

 

Also, most people probably aren't as dedicated as my hypothetical guy. Getting 41 hours of SWTOR in a week is rather enthusiastic.

 

If you shut down a non-fanatic just won't bother logging in that night. Which means 41 hours of play gets turned into 26 hours of play (41-3x5), which means that this week the game's only online for them ~60% of the time they could reasonably play (26/41).

 

60% practical uptime for a casual player is beyond disgraceful.

 

I think Bioware needs to look up what a "persistent world" is. It doesn't matter how perfectly you eventually fix problems if the servers are constantly offline being improved. When a game is offline, it's totally unplayable, which is pretty much the ultimate definition of "broken".

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis

[Bluestone]

Bioware don't owe you (or anyone) a specific amount of game time.

 

Be a man, relax.

[Lakhesis]

Bioware don't owe you (or anyone) a specific amount of game time.

 

Be a man, relax.

 

Actually they do.

 

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/1023610#toc7

 

This falls under "A service that: - is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t be easily fixed within a reasonable time"

 

Terms of Use contracts cannot sign away consumer protections in Australia. There's a reason why Blizzard had to smile & cough up refunds en masse in Australia when they pulled this rubbish with Diablo 3.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis

[HelinCarnate]

And if you were the only person playing the game, you would have a case. You are in the minority of their total customer base. Get over it.

[Lakhesis]

And if you were the only person playing the game, you would have a case. You are in the minority of their total customer base. Get over it.

 

So the 90% should get to do whatever they want to 10%?

 

Society doesn't work like that, or at least no humane society does.

 

All they need to do is restrain the development department, fix it once & fix it right.

 

One maintenance is reasonable. Three a week is incompetence.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis

[Liquidacid]

The so 90% should get to do whatever they want to 10%?

 

Society doesn't work like that, or at least no humane society does.

 

All they need to do is restrain the development department, fix it once & fix it right.

 

One maintenance is reasonable. Three a week is incompetence.

 

every single democracy works like that... they do what is best for the majority... and so do ALL businesses or they fail

[solistus]

And if you were the only person playing the game, you would have a case. You are in the minority of their total customer base. Get over it.

 

He's a paying customer. He doesn't have to be the majority of paying customers to expect to get what he paid for. This "corporations can do whatever they want, **** if you don't like it" attitude may be acceptable under US law, but many countries still offer basic consumer protections that companies are required to live up to.

[Lakhesis]

every single democracy works like that... they do what is best for the majority... and so do ALL businesses or they fail

 

You have a very flawed understanding of the concept of minority rights & protections within a democratic environment. Technically a pure democracy could (e.g.) have 51% of the people vote that the other 49% should give them all their money, but protection of minorities is a core part of all modern democracies for precisely those reasons. Who knows when they're going to be one of the ones in the minority? Or in SWTOR's case, maybe next week you'll be the one with the weird graphics card bug.

 

A more accurate version would be: "they do what is ok for the majority, and hopefully doesn't alienate the minority so much the minority does something damaging".

 

Bioware is alienating the minority pretty thoroughly here.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis

[Skoobie]

Actually they do.

 

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/1023610#toc7

 

This falls under "A service that: - is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t be easily fixed within a reasonable time"

 

Terms of Use contracts cannot sign away consumer protections in Australia. There's a reason why Blizzard had to smile & cough up refunds en masse in Australia when they pulled this rubbish with Diablo 3.

 

I always love when people bring up law.

 

How about talking to a lawyer and getting a lawsuit going, then get back to us? I would be interested in hearing how it goes.

[dupela]

yea they should occasionally share the inconvieniance just a bit ... bit over the get a life crowd that say that maint needs to happen ect ect which i agree it does ... betting it doesnt ALWAYS heppen in those peoples playtime every week. and every emergency interesting how the emergencies seem to wait until a time that suits the US audiance... so this week for most of the AEST players we've lost in total 3 days play time (provided you work normal hours and sleep).

[HelinCarnate]

You have a very flawed understanding of the concept of minority rights & protections within a democratic environment. Technically a pure democracy could (e.g.) have 51% of the people vote that the other 49% should give them all their money, but protection of minorities is a core part of all modern democracies for precisely those reasons.

 

A more accurate version would be: "they do what is ok for the majority, and hopefully doesn't alienate the minority so much the minority does something damaging".

 

Bioware is alienating the minority pretty thoroughly here.

 

They have to do it to someone, so they pick the fewest number of people. Either accept it and continue to pay for the game, or if you find it unacceptable you can stop paying them. Or you can hire a lawer and sue them for your $1 of play time that you lost.

[throapy]

aS A NORTH AMERICAN i SAY HES RIGHT. 3 nights this week of down time for those of us that only play after 10p pacific time. I am pissed about the friday nightt outage as well. If blizz is gonna cut play time by a week, effectively, there shouldbe compensation. If you get to play all day and the outages don't affect you, well great, but don't get on those that it does screw over. We are all paying for time, and when that time is removed they should compensate. how would you feel if your time was cut by 20%?

[timmyw]

There's a reason why Blizzard had to smile & cough up refunds en masse in Australia when they pulled this rubbish with Diablo 3.

 

LOL Blizzard's refunds had absolutely nothing to do with that, and everything to do with an entire store chain going into liquidation and not providing pre-ordered product.

 

As for BioWare owing us play time for not providing what they said they would (yeah I am Australian) That is simply untrue. See what they are doing by taking the servers down for maintenance and patches is: Improving the service. If you disagree, enjoy wasting a ton of money taking them to court, and not posting useless threads.

 

I don't usually post in these kinds of threads, but some Australian attitudes towards entitlement really boggle my mind some times. I mean seriously, you are literally complaining because they are patching the game in a timely manner. It sucks, sure, our guild lost two nights of Operation play this week but I would rather they be fixing things that need fixing. We just happen to be in an unfortunate Time Zone. I believe the guys at BioWare are actually working their asses off on this game and deserve some sleep occasionally, or do you think they should be working 24 hours a day for your 15 bucks a month?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Parali
"retarded"

[Liquidacid]

They have to do it to someone, so they pick the fewest number of people. Either accept it and continue to pay for the game, or if you find it unacceptable you can stop paying them. Or you can hire a lawer and sue them for your $1 of play time that you lost.

 

he lost 8 hours with these 2 unscheduled maintenances... so he would sue them for 0.16 USD because we pay 2 cents USD an hour

Edited June 29, 2012 by Liquidacid

[Jenzali]

An online video game is not a democracy.

[Lakhesis]

They have to do it to someone, so they pick the fewest number of people. Either accept it and continue to pay for the game, or if you find it unacceptable you can stop paying them. Or you can hire a lawer and sue them for your $1 of play time that you lost.

 

The point is they don't have to do unscheduled maintenances to someone. They can stick to scheduled maintenances.

 

Just to reiterate: I have no problem with regular maintenance. I have a problem with the extra maintenances.

 

They've done extra maintenances to fix a relic 3-4 days prior to the scheduled maintenance. They have no sense of priorities. Their first reaction to any problem is "how quick can we fix it?", not "how well can we fix it?" and "does this really need to be fixed right this instant, or can it wait till our regular downtime?". They rush solutions & come out with half-cocked solutions because of it.

 

Metaphorically speaking, they'd shut down all the traffic in a city because there's been an accident on one road.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis

[HelinCarnate]

aS A NORTH AMERICAN i SAY HES RIGHT. 3 nights this week of down time for those of us that only play after 10p pacific time. I am pissed about the friday nightt outage as well. If blizz is gonna cut play time by a week, effectively, there shouldbe compensation. If you get to play all day and the outages don't affect you, well great, but don't get on those that it does screw over. We are all paying for time, and when that time is removed they should compensate. how would you feel if your time was cut by 20%?

 

 

I work nights and right about the time things start to slow down at work where I can start to play the game is when everything goes down. How do I feel? Annoyed. Should BW pay me or refund me or give me free time because of it? No. I would rather see the issues in PVP fixed so that close games are not decided by who glitches out the least.

[Hambunctious]

I'm siding with the OP. I would also like to see the lemon law be extended to video games.

[Dacce]

They just need to roll out a cleaner patch and not rush to meet subscription deadlines.

[HelinCarnate]

The point is they don't have to do unscheduled maintenances to someone. They can stick to scheduled maintenances.

 

Just to reiterate: I have no problem with regular maintenance. I have a problem with the extra maintenances.

 

They've done extra maintenances to fix a relic 3-4 days prior to the scheduled maintenance. They have no sense of priorities. Their first reaction to any problem is "how quick can we fix it?", not "how well can we fix it" and "does this really need to be fixed right this instant, or can it wait till our regular downtime?". They rush solutions & come out with half-cocked solutions because of it.

 

Metaphorically speaking, they'd shut down all the traffic in a city because there's been an accident on one road.

 

Metaphorically speaking, they only own one road in that city and it, like most other roads in that city, is a toll road. It is well known that on Tuesday morning, they have to shut down the road while they bring out the big industrial cleaners and make minor repairs.

 

Sometimes accidents happen during the week and they have to make emergency repairs to the road so they shut it down in the middle of the night so the fewest number of customers are affected while they make repairs. Granted, some people would like to use that road during that time but they would rather lose a few of those people as customers instead of losing even more customers by allowing their road surface to become pitted and bumpy and get to the point where no one wants to drive on it anymore.

[Jorrvask]

I understand that shutdowns/maintenance/hotfixes and all have to happen, lets you know that things are being fixed and taken care of, also after a patch it's highly expected.

 

However, to finish work at 5pm, and look forward to playing with guildies and RL friends for the night, only to get shafted 3 nights in one week by downtime, is nothing but frustrating.

 

WoW was like this aswell for oceanic players, prime time for us it downtime for the majority across the world, sigh.

 

Obviously I'm not as bothered as the OP, but still....

[Lakhesis]

They just need to roll out a cleaner patch and not rush to meet subscription deadlines.

 

That's the really disappointing bit about it all. These are systemic issues which cascade.

 

Rushed out a patch to try & make people happy? It's got flaws cos it's rushed.

So now people are unhappy because of the flaws, so now you're rushing another patch to fix the new flaws... Catch-22.

 

This is constant. The code isn't the fundamental problem, the code flaws are only the symptom - it's Bioware's operational practices that are actually creating the problems.

 

Less focus on speed would probably end up getting things done faster, because they wouldn't have to be constantly backtracking to fix things.

[ahusking]

I think what Bioware need to look into is doing their patches per region, So patch the US patches at 3AM their time, the UK patches 3AM their time, and the APAC at 3 AM their time.

 

Or at the very least do US one time UK/APAC another, this work rather well with SOE doing patching in SWG

[jarjarloves]

Lets say I'm an East Coast Australian who works a regular 9-5 job & play SWTOR a lot during my free time.

 

Mon-Fri Work 9am - 5pm, get home at 6pm, play SWTOR from 6pm-11pm, eat & go to bed, getup at 7am & go to work. Repeat. That's 5 hours playing SWTOR a night.

 

Sat-Sun: I spend all my "work time" playing, so 8 hours a day of SWTOR, and the other 8 hours doing the "general living tasks" like mowing the lawn I couldn't fit into the week due to my heavy schedule of SWTOR.

 

That's 5x5 + 2x8 = 25 + 16 = 41 hours a week of SWTOR. Hey, we're dedicated, k?

 

Lets throw in maintenance though. It lasts 5pm-9pm, so that overlaps 3 hours of the play time. Then lets calculate it based off the number of maintenances per week:

 

Regular tuesday maintenance #1 knocks 3hrs / 41hrs = 7.3% of my playtime out.

Maintenance #2: 6hrs / 41hrs = 14.6% of playtime is removed.

Maintenance #3: 9hrs / 41hrs = 21.95% of weekly playtime is gone

If they do it, Maintenance #4 will be: 12hrs / 41hrs = 29.27% of weekly playtime is gone

 

---

 

In conclusion: Are you intending to refund 20% of my access payment for this week?

 

Also, most people probably aren't as dedicated as my hypothetical guy. Getting 41 hours of SWTOR in a week is rather enthusiastic.

 

If you shut down a non-fanatic just won't bother logging in that night. Which means 41 hours of play gets turned into 26 hours of play (41-3x5), which means that this week the game's only online for them ~60% of the time they could reasonably play (26/41).

 

60% practical uptime for a casual player is beyond disgraceful.

 

I think Bioware needs to look up what a "persistent world" is. It doesn't matter how perfectly you eventually fix problems if the servers are constantly offline being improved. When a game is offline, it's totally unplayable, which is pretty much the ultimate definition of "broken".

find me a MMO that gives you more playtime.

 

I'll save you some time, there IS NONE

[Lakhesis]

find me a MMO that gives you more playtime.

 

I'll save you some time, there IS NONE

 

Wow's maintenance takes out 1 night, so lets call that 5 hours (sometimes only 4 hours of one night, but lets bias this against WoW).

 

5 / 41 = 12.2% - so the moment SWTOR runs 2 maintenances (commonplace), they're worse than WoW for any maintenance timezone player & substantially worse for the casual players cos it's 2 nights versus 1.

 

I'm unfamiliar with Rift, been a long time since I've played it, but I'm told that 2-3 30 minute maintenances are routine. Lets bias it against Rift and call it 4x 30 for simplicity's sake:

 

2 / 41 = 4.9% - so, if those downtimes are accurate, Rift is always better than SWTOR.

 

So the moment SWTOR does an extra maintenance a week, they just became the worst of the 3 big names on the market. If they could actually stick to their schedule, they'd be in the right ballpark.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Lakhesis