Nightmare Denova

[xenofire]

Well, our core of players decided to unsubscribe last night. We'll decide whether or not we're coming back when new content hits... But for now my guild is another causality of boredom and frustration. Edited July 24, 2012 by xenofire

[Fossman]

Well, our core of players decided to unsubscribe last night. We'll decide whether or not we're coming back when new content hits... But for now my guild is another causality of boredom and frustration.

 

Seeing the same thing happen in my guild atm. Losing alot of players to guildwars 2. People are just fed up with lack of anything to do. One can only PvP so much before getting bored

[pure_laced]

Well, our core of players decided to unsubscribe last night. We'll decide whether or not we're coming back when new content hits... But for now my guild is another causality of boredom and frustration.

And the hits just keep coming...

 

Seriously BW, the time to communicate is now. Not weeks from now, not months from now. Today. Otherwise there won't be anyone really left.

[Shinaa]

Yet they even don't care to make the 2nd post visible, this is getting to the point of total MADNESS!

[DiLune]

Yet they even don't care to make the 2nd post visible, this is getting to the point of total MADNESS!

 

I'm finally able to see it.

 

Make no mistake - a great deal of our time has been spent developing the new Operation, Terror From Beyond. Nightmare mode as a feature just needed a number of improvements before it could be worked into the progression properly. We definitely know you guys want to see new stuff.

[Benjah]

Make no mistake - a great deal of our time has been spent developing the new Operation, Terror From Beyond. Nightmare mode as a feature just needed a number of improvements before it could be worked into the progression properly. We definitely know you guys want to see new stuff.

 

Thank you for the post Jesse. It is great to hear from you, but can we please, please have some sort of a timetable on Nightmare EC and Terror From Beyond, other than "soon."

[alifaraaz]

Thank you for the post Jesse. It is great to hear from you, but can we please, please have some sort of a timetable on Nightmare EC and Terror From Beyond, other than "soon."

 

Something as vague as:

 

"Nightmare EC will come before 1.4, hopefully before end of August, and Terror will come with 1.4 which may come around Oct/Nov"

 

would still be very much appreciated. I get it, you dont wanna promise a date that might not be met, especially with all the mess going on at BW Austin atm. But something vague atleast gives us a rough estimate as to how long we have to wait.

Sure some people might unsub and wait until the patch and then resub just before its out. But I think that's a lot better than people getting bored to death of EC to the point that they just figure they're better off playing a different game.

[Thoffs]

Something as vague as:

 

"Nightmare EC will come before 1.4, hopefully before end of August, and Terror will come with 1.4 which may come around Oct/Nov"

 

would still be very much appreciated. I get it, you dont wanna promise a date that might not be met, especially with all the mess going on at BW Austin atm. But something vague atleast gives us a rough estimate as to how long we have to wait.

Sure some people might unsub and wait until the patch and then resub just before its out. But I think that's a lot better than people getting bored to death of EC to the point that they just figure they're better off playing a different game.

 

Yeah, agree with this 100%. Bioware needs to throw some sort of life buoy out to the folks swimming around in the 'Sea of Soon' before they drown.

[Iwipe]

I do wish Nightmare Denova or some new PvE content is coming out soon. I have being playing a bit of TSW myself to keep occupied since I am not too fond of the ranked PvP (not really a PvPer). My guild clears all of HM EC + Nightmare Pilgrim in under 3 hrs and there isn't much motivation to log on beside leveling alts. Right now we are reaching the stage where most of us don't even need gear from HM EC anymore.

 

Come August, GW2 will draw another batch of people away

[Callianna]

Yeah, agree with this 100%. Bioware needs to throw some sort of life buoy out to the folks swimming around in the 'Sea of Soon' before they drown.

 

Does soon = 4-6 weeks, or 6-8 weeks, or 3-6 months or as I'm beginning to suspect soon = never? It's only 4 bosses to rework how long can that possibly take?

[oredith]

Does soon = 4-6 weeks, or 6-8 weeks, or 3-6 months or as I'm beginning to suspect soon = never? It's only 4 bosses to rework how long can that possibly take?

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon

 

soon indeed..

[pure_laced]

I do wish Nightmare Denova or some new PvE content is coming out soon. I have being playing a bit of TSW myself to keep occupied since I am not too fond of the ranked PvP (not really a PvPer). My guild clears all of HM EC + Nightmare Pilgrim in under 3 hrs and there isn't much motivation to log on beside leveling alts. Right now we are reaching the stage where most of us don't even need gear from HM EC anymore.

 

Come August, GW2 will draw another batch of people away

 

This to an extent. GW2 release will pull people away from this game, and some of those for good. TSW has pulled a few away already. Even if Nightmare mode is the same as has been before with one new mechanic and upgraded hps/dmg etc is still better than the emptiness we have now for 6 days a week.

[Shinaa]

This invisible post thing is more interesting then hardmode Denova, I have a few theories now for that!

1.) there is some kind of forum police, if someone else than the usual CM(s) write something, it takes a week for this police to check out if everything is in order.

 

2.) the flashpoints and operations team sends us information from the future, because they work in some kind of time shifted room!

 

3.) this thread is totally bugged for all Bioware posts.

 

4.) a wizard did it.

 

Personally I like No 2 best.

 

But aside from that, that post did not give any new information or answered anything did it? I think most of us already knew that, we even speculated that you want to release nightmare Denova in the same patch as the new operation Terror from Beyond. Which is bad and already a little late.

[alifaraaz]

Yeah, well I used to think damn that might not be good...I assumed they'll drop the same gear, roughly. Some information about how it goes would be nice:

 

Will Story Terror = HM EC or will it be equal to Nightmare EC?

My guess is story, that way nightmare EC and HM Terror are on the same level.

 

What will progression guilds prioritise, well that might be tricky, but I'd imagine it will all be about Nightmare mode.

 

But it might be good in the sense that we will then have 2 raids to do at the same time, making things more interesting and fun.

The only other downside to this I can think of is that many of us are sick of EC andmmay anna play Terror more instead. Which will then lead to being bored when Terror nightmare comes out surely.

 

Unless they make it drastically different to give it a fresh feel. I know they said they been monitoring tactics used and making changes to mechanics and adding new mechanics that will specifically make previous tactics not work.

Now if pulled off correctly, that really could make EC nightmare pretty fresh and interesting, while being much less workfforDDevs than an entirely new instance.

 

But as usual, none of this will be answered I guess its all wait and see.

[The-Vortex]

There's also the possibility that Terror when it releases will be the same size as, if not smaller than EC due to it releasing at the same time (or close to) an entire difficulty. As fun as EC's been, and as much of an improvement as its been over the tier 1 operations, I cant help but feel that we'll be seeing the same thread about Nightmare Terror or whatever the next operation is after that all because Bioware seem to have the mindset that 3 - 5 bosses = enough content for 2 - 6 months.

 

I really hope this won't be the case and we'll have a decent sized operation next tier (6 - 8 encounters). I can almost guarantee that the content hiatus wouldn't be as bad if we had two or three more bosses in EC.

[Tigzie]

Ive got my fingers crossed for 8 bosses (there is 8 dreadlords right?) but then ive always been an optimist lol they will probably group a few ending up again with 5/6 boss fights *shrugs* long as its new i dont care lol.

[dominius]

My guild clears all of HM EC + Nightmare Pilgrim in under 3 hrs and there isn't much motivation to log on beside leveling alts. Right now we are reaching the stage where most of us don't even need gear from HM EC anymore.

 

Yeah, we reached that stage where no one needs gear on their mains anymore so last week we started running alts through EC HM. It is kind of cool to get two people in full campaign in 3 hours on a Tuesday night but I still think we're going to run out of alts before we get new content.

[invizion]

Seriously?

 

Just looking through some of these posts makes me ashamed to be even playing this game if this is the community it produces.

 

While I make no effort to hide the fact that we're pretty much BiS on at least 2 chars each in my guild, I find no use or need to come here and pretty much whine like children because BioWare isn't catering to the small %'age of the player base (Yes, us "Hardcore" players). The fact remains that a lot of guilds are still struggling with EC HM.

 

I'll see your 3 and a half months of EC HM and Raise you 12 months of ICC, raiding it every single week without fail until Cata was released.... or 5 months of Naxx 2.0 or 5 months of ToC....

 

Seriously, it's summer, It's a game, Get some perspective and go outside. If your raiders can't "last until nightmare mode" then they're surely going to flake later on down the line because of other reasons. It's just lame excuses and I've seen them 1000's of times before.

[Vortuus]

I'll see your 3 and a half months of EC HM and Raise you 12 months of ICC, raiding it every single week without fail until Cata was released.... or 5 months of Naxx 2.0 or 5 months of ToC....

 

Hmm. So you're comparing ICC, the end of expansion raid that noone cleared until the 5% buff. EC was cleared within hours and is not the 'end of an expansion'.

 

Naxx, 15 bosses and the BEGINNING of an expansion. EC is 4 bosses, no interesting achievements, no undying/immortal type run to do .. even like there was in EV/KP. And you mention 5 months on Naxx... we are ALMOST to 5 months on EC.

 

ToC, 4 bosses that were released gated to artificially extend the clear times. An instance that WAS designed originally to 'give something to do' after VERY top guilds were done with Ulduar and waiting for ICC. This is the most comporable to EC of your examples, and ToC was CLEARLY a filler Raid. ToC released Aug 4th, ICC Dec 8th. 4 months, not 5 apart. So ToC/ICC were released closer together than EC and... EC NiM will be? The same instance, just different difficulty.

 

TL;DR: You use faulty information to prove your point. Instead, you end up proving that yes, the release schedule for upper tier content PAINFULLY slow even when compared to WoW... like you did.

[invizion]

Hmm. So you're comparing ICC, the end of expansion raid that noone cleared until the 5% buff. EC was cleared within hours and is not the 'end of an expansion'.

 

Naxx, 15 bosses and the BEGINNING of an expansion. EC is 4 bosses, no interesting achievements, no undying/immortal type run to do .. even like there was in EV/KP. And you mention 5 months on Naxx... we are ALMOST to 5 months on EC.

 

ToC, 4 bosses that were released gated to artificially extend the clear times. An instance that WAS designed originally to 'give something to do' after VERY top guilds were done with Ulduar and waiting for ICC. This is the most comporable to EC of your examples, and ToC was CLEARLY a filler Raid. ToC released Aug 4th, ICC Dec 8th. 4 months, not 5 apart. So ToC/ICC were released closer together than EC and... EC NiM will be? The same instance, just different difficulty.

 

TL;DR: You use faulty information to prove your point. Instead, you end up proving that yes, the release schedule for upper tier content PAINFULLY slow even when compared to WoW... like you did.

 

I stand corrected with ToC, it was 4, typo but we're not even 4 months into EC, let alone 5 months.

 

Naxx was a complete rehash of the level 60 instance.... how much work do you REALLY think went into that?

 

I could go on to mention T11 or Firelands or Deathwing (which is currently in its 8th month of its lifecycle....)

 

There are interesting things to do in EC, although nothing specifically rewarded in game for it, you can make your own things to do such as speed runs, speed boss kills, trying odd setups, 6 manning the 8 man, 14 manning the 16.

 

The fact still remains that the majority of the playerbase is not hardcore raiders. The majority of those that raid are still progressing in hardmode and if you expect BioWare to produce content for us 5% of the playerbase as a priority over the 95%, especially after the downscaling of the team and the over predicted success of this game, then you my friend, are highly misinformed and delusional.

 

I would also like to say again, that I do think that the release of NiM is taking too long, however, what I don't understand is why everyone in this thread is acting like children?! Last I checked, most "hardcore" guilds had at least an 18+ requirement....

Edited July 25, 2012 by invizion

[pure_laced]

I could go on to mention T11 or Firelands or Deathwing (which is currently in its 8th month of its lifecycle....)

 

The fact still remains that the majority of the playerbase is not hardcore raiders. The majority of those that raid are still progressing in hardmode and if you expect BioWare to produce content for us 5% of the playerbase as a priority over the 95%, especially after the downscaling of the team and the over predicted success of this game, then you my friend, are highly misinformed and delusional.

 

I would also like to say again, that I do think that the release of NiM is taking too long, however, what I don't understand is why everyone in this thread is acting like children?! Last I checked, most "hardcore" guilds had at least an 18+ requirement....

 

Something you might fail to realize since you are posting timeframes, is that each of those instances barring ToC (filler raid) had more bosses/wings than the current SWTOR Ops. This allowed the Dev team to take their time a little more in releasing new content because you chewed on it longer. WoW also didn't have a system in place where you could be fully geared in 61 mods in 3 weeks because of the awesome idea of Blackhole comms at a rate of 130 per week (don't know exact count, but I am sure it is pretty close).

 

The best raid IMHO still to this day was Ulduar. There wasn't a "switch" to zone into a Heroic level instance. You walked in and depending on the mechanics of the fight decided to do Heroic version or not. Best designed system by far. ICC ruined it because you could do ICC Normal, and Heroic just by switching the difficulty, plus you had 2 gear sets for 10/25 man raid sizes.

 

At any rate, more content is always better. There are guilds now still progressing through the older zones in EV/KP and loving it. Just because they haven't cleared EC yet, doesn't mean BW has to wait to release new content because of these casual guilds. It will be cleared in due time.

 

We are approaching 4 months into the EC cycle with no Nightmare released yet, no timeframe for when it will be, no information really on Terror From Beyond, nothing on the PTS to test, etc.

 

Let me reiterate and put this into context. 4 months for 4 bosses. I guess you can throw in Nightmare Pilgrim too, so 5 bosses. I wish we had some more info about TfB and how much content will be in there.

[The-Vortex]

Now that world of panadaland's got a release date maybe it'll prompt Bioware to formally announce 1.4. Its hard to imagine them having nothing until the end of the year with both Guild Wars and now this releasing in the space of a month.

[Shinaa]

Comparing ICC to EC is really a bad thing ... for EC!

ICC had 12 bosses + one extra boss patched (Ruby Sanctum), that is 13 Bosses over 12 months like you said, however, EC has already 4 months and only 4 bosses, so every month that passes will be even better for... ICC.

Might want to think a bit more before posting.

[Tigzie]

This is star wars not WoW if you want to flaunt how good you were in WoW and insult people posting on a Star Wars forum then go back to WoW or be quiet all you have managed to do in those posts is

a) brag

b) insult

c) agree with the people your insulting by saying "while i would like ecnm"

 

all in all poor argument. poor excecution of argument and of course failure to get anyone to agree with you after all why would you post unless you wanted someone to hear what your saying.... then again .... wise man speaks when he has something to say ... fool speaks when he has to say something .... I dont thing calling all posters children is 'something to say'

 

Enjoy your day

[Shinaa]

I don't quite understand who you are referring to Tigzie, I certainly cannot see anyone in this thread bragging, boasting or insulting someone, well maybe except you to a degree.

All people did here was discussing how nightmare Denova is a bit late or even long overdue and if Bioware at least could give us some information on when we can actually get into nightmare. But maybe they are afraid they would loose subscriptions from all those who have EC hardmode on farm for months now until they release a new operation?

I for one gave some facts and informations whenever the topic came up with comparing it to other games, especially WoW since I do have alot experience with it. I don't favor SWTOR over WoW or the other way around, I find both games good, but recently SWTOR has been lacking on endgame and the technical side of things.

I mean really, they said nightmare Denova would come a bit later then 1.2 - fine, we lived with it, but I am sure nobody ever thought it would take so long, if anything it should have been in 1.3.

Then those bugs and lags that have been around from the start, still not fixed and it is getting worse, just look at all those posts about lags.

And to top it off, almost no communication to playerbase - this thread itself is the very best example, invisible posts from Bioware that would stay invisible for a week, maybe even longer if we wouldn't have brought it up all the time?

 

So what exactly are you trying to say Tigzie? That we should not post and point out things that bother us? Or maybe just post how good everything is? I don't think that is what a forum is for, but maybe I am wrong.