Gungan Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) The price of moving mods needs to be in the 5k credit range at tops. Anything higher makes it cost prohibitive to experiment with gear (which is a fun activity that player like me enjoy doing, and this game needs more things for people to spend their time doing in game). For the slicer thing, the problem is that in order to make an augment, 4 Advanced Neural Augmentors are needed. With a 1 in 20 chance of getting ANA's from slicing component missions at ~1.8k a mission and the most ANA's that slicers can get from a slicing augment mission is 3 (though it's commonly 2), that means in order to make a single augment not counting any other components is ~72k and upwards of 30 hours worth of missions (40 individual missions total), spread out among however many slicers a particular player actually has divided by 3 for the 3 slicing missions in rank 6 of each mission skill. In the least, we're talking roughly 10 hours per slicer per augment going onto the market. Then add onto it that the number of augments people want right now far exceeds the demand. I still have not gotten enough components to make the augments I need on my main since 1.3 released (and I only need 12, not 14), and I have 3 maxed out slicers constantly running missions while I'm leveling up a 4th slicer. Even before 1.3, like a month ago. I remember buying neural augmentors at 10k a pop. I could sell augs for well under 100k and make a healthy profit. Then suddenly the next week all of the neural augmentors were going for 2x the price for absolutely no reason. There was no new patch, they just gouged more, and I couldn't sell the augs anymore because they cost too much too make, and the demand was pretty low for them. Now we're double again. Who out there is actually paying 150k for an aug (the current cost of materials)? Really? Edited June 27, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gherzon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The part that really annoys me is that it's a magic fairy credit sink. Paying a higher repair bill for better gear, it actually makes sense. Paying credits to remove something, where are those credits going and why? Someone try to make an in-game story behind it. I bet no one can. In some cases, I make the gear, I make the mod, I put the mod in, but then credits mysteriously disappear when I take the mod out. It would be like paying a bunch of credits to no one everytime a new level was reached. I thought this very thing months ago. Standing in the desert of tatoonie thinking, "Hey just leveled. I can use that new enhancement I made last night now and give the old one to Mako." Takes off hat. Pulls out of enhancement chip. Some nebulous voice of god booms, "That will be 1200 credits, thank you." POOF money disappears. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Even before 1.3, like a month ago. I remember buying neural augmentors at 10k a pop. I could sell augs for went under 100k and make a healthy profit. Then suddenly the next week all of the neural augmentors were going for 2x the price for absolutely no reason. There was no new patch, they just gouged more, and I couldn't sell the augs anymore because they cost too much too make, and the demand was pretty low for them. Now we're double again. Who out there is actually paying 150k for an aug (the current cost of materials)? Really? It's not a matter of how much it costs to make. It's about the demand. The demand went down because everyone got the 2 or so augments they needed. With the release of 1.3 every single person who pvp's and raids at 50 now wants 10-12 more augments. That makes augments insanely valuable. The only thing holding the prices where they are is that there are so many people who are trying to meet that demand. Expect when this all resolves and people have the augments they need the market will crash into the ground because the augments never go away. Bioware fails at designing a viable economy. They put RNG cockblocks on getting materials and then every item is permanent. Edited June 27, 2012 by Niil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveRun Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Because credit's aren't easy enough to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumuji Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 They'll probably cave in with when they allow you to have a alternate build with 1.4. Obviously they intend on people being able to quickly switch roles without a respec and with that I'd assume they wouldn't want a large credit sink to be in the way still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Because credit's aren't easy enough to get. Easy has nothing to do with it. It's the time and the entertainment value people get from it. If you're talking about dailies, lol. Okay. There's a reason most people don't have more than a mil saved, if that much. Dailies aren't fun. Black Hole commendations are useless (due to no set bonus) aside from the off-pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Easy has nothing to do with it. It's the time and the entertainment value people get from it. If you're talking about dailies, lol. Okay. There's a reason most people don't have more than a mil saved, if that much. Dailies aren't fun. Black Hole commendations are useless (due to no set bonus) aside from the off-pieces. This. I have not done dailies in about 3-4 months. I detest dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaick Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) If bioware wants to keep the credit sink with removing mods then they should at least make it a legacy unlock to purchase a special crafting station to put on your ship that makes removing mods free. However this would cost a couple millions credits to unlock but save a lot of money in the long run. Edited June 27, 2012 by Jaick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapmaker Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I agree with the OP. There is no reason it should be 37K plus to take one mod out of end game gear. BW really needs to lower the price even more and add a reasonably priced legacy perk that would allow you to make the extraction less expensive. Something like a 25% discount for 50K, 50% discount for 100K and 75% for a 150K discount. I have spent pretty close to that in modding so the numbers seem high but I believe reasonable. This way they get their credit sink and in the end we get cheaper prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphill Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Easy has nothing to do with it. It's the time and the entertainment value people get from it. If you're talking about dailies, lol. Okay. There's a reason most people don't have more than a mil saved, if that much. Dailies aren't fun. Black Hole commendations are useless (due to no set bonus) aside from the off-pieces. Add the fact that now since the server transfers it now takes at least twice as long to do the dailies because you are fighting with people over them. The respawn rates have not increased despite the massive influx of players. I spent 40 minutes the other day trying to get a 3rd Rakata leader. The trapped scientists on Corellia is another time sink now. I gotten more and more aggravated playing this game the last couple weeks than i have since launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfino Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The part that really annoys me is that it's a magic fairy credit sink. Paying a higher repair bill for better gear, it actually makes sense. Better gear would be more expensive to repair, and at least the money is going to a person for doing the job (even if it's the bartender at the Cantina). But paying credits to remove something, where are those credits going and why? Someone try to make an in-game story behind it. Anything, no matter how much of a stretch. I bet no one can. Well, you see. There's this... guy, right? And he... like... is an angry ghost! So he... steals your credits while you're busy modifying your gear! The second you let your guard down to change mods, BOOM, he's there taking your creds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well, you see. There's this... guy, right? And he... like... is an angry ghost! So he... steals your credits while you're busy modifying your gear! The second you let your guard down to change mods, BOOM, he's there taking your creds! This explanation is only feasible if you are a sith inquisitor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 No.....it should not be targeted toward end game players that want to optimize their gear when the costs actually penalize players who desire to customize their appearance. It FAVORS min/maxers who will be happy to wear anything as long as it's BiS and once they get their gear that way, will keep it that way.....it does a huge disservice to people who simply want to switch their appearance occasionally, because the appearance is stupidly tied at this time to your actual gear. If we had an appearance tab, I'd have no fricking argument with the cost of mod removal....as it is, the cost is ridiculous in a game where your appearance is supposed to be a major feature. If Bioware feels this segment of the population has too many credits, it is a legitimate way to help ease the inflation rate.You may not like it because you dont save every credit you get, but a LOT of people that are into the end game optimizations do have a lot of credits. It's not like Bioware is doing this because 10% of the end game optimizers are 'rich', they would have this system in place because 90% of them are 'rich'. It may 'favor' them because they can save the money, but if you're going to be picky, you're going to pay for it. Just like in real life. If you're going to be picky and eat low fat food, you're going to pay a lot more money than just buying fatty less healthy foods. That's just the way how things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 If Bioware feels this segment of the population has too many credits, it is a legitimate way to help ease the inflation rate.You may not like it because you dont save every credit you get, but a LOT of people that are into the end game optimizations do have a lot of credits. It's not like Bioware is doing this because 10% of the end game optimizers are 'rich', they would have this system in place because 90% of them are 'rich'. It may 'favor' them because they can save the money, but if you're going to be picky, you're going to pay for it. Just like in real life. If you're going to be picky and eat low fat food, you're going to pay a lot more money than just buying fatty less healthy foods. That's just the way how things are. This is conjecture. It is NOT 'how things are'. 90% of the player base are not millionaires. This falls in the realm of OPINION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eommer Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 The price of moving mods needs to be in the 5k credit range at tops. Anything higher makes it cost prohibitive to experiment with gear (which is a fun activity that player like me enjoy doing, and this game needs more things for people to spend their time doing in game). Exactly. i want to try some new augments but right now i will not because the lack of money after yesterday. I just want to try. Just imagine if my test fail and I decide swap back my old augments again? omg, imagine the costs special with this crap prices on augments right now. 150k for a augment on my server. 150k x 12 = 1,800,000 swap price = 15k (for augments) x 12 = 180,000 total = 1,980,000 now imagine if I dont like this new augments, there we go more 180,000 to swap back its alot just for a test so the costs prohibitive to experiment . This. I have not done dailies in about 3-4 months. I detest dailies. Same here, get money doing a brainless quests every single day its not fun me at all. Well, you see. There's this... guy, right? And he... like... is an angry ghost! So he... steals your credits while you're busy modifying your gear! The second you let your guard down to change mods, BOOM, he's there taking your creds! LOL exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utio Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 If Bioware feels this segment of the population has too many credits, it is a legitimate way to help ease the inflation rate.You may not like it because you dont save every credit you get, but a LOT of people that are into the end game optimizations do have a lot of credits. It's not like Bioware is doing this because 10% of the end game optimizers are 'rich', they would have this system in place because 90% of them are 'rich'. It may 'favor' them because they can save the money, but if you're going to be picky, you're going to pay for it. Just like in real life. If you're going to be picky and eat low fat food, you're going to pay a lot more money than just buying fatty less healthy foods. That's just the way how things are. The problem with your reasoning is that the prices were too high when no one was a millionaire. They haven't introduced high prices for things as a reaction to too many people having too much money, they always had high prices for things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_tegrof Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The problem with your reasoning is that the prices were too high when no one was a millionaire. They haven't introduced high prices for things as a reaction to too many people having too much money, they always had high prices for things. This is very true.....it's not like they increased the sink to fix an economy problem. They just said, "we need credit sinks cause others do it" and hammered us all with their credit bats. We have one person in our guild that has millions of credits. ONE person. We run Ops 2-3 times a week. I can't afford to take out mods and don't have time to run dailies every single day. Not to mention it takes 6-7 dailies to swap 1 mod from one piece to another.(without destroying previous that is) That hardly seems worth my time running dailies. I cannot fathom how these people that claim it's no big deal can afford all this. My bet is the people that are "ok" with it, just never have the need to do it....ever or anymore at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomitor Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 agreed, bioware have really dropped the ball when it comes to appearance customisation. appearance customization is to many players, myself included a very important part of mmo games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakhesis Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I like (bordering on love+adore) the rest of the economic system, most of the QQ about credit sinks & the game's economics is short sighted twaddle. But the mod swap cost & the spec swap cost are counterproductive imo. Penalising people for being more useful & testing gear properly is counter-productive for the community in the long term IMO. Making perks expensive is fine, but making useful & productive grouping expensive is no good. A purely token cost is appropriate for mod & spec swaps, at most. Edited June 27, 2012 by Lakhesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanLogic Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well I spent three days grinding dailies on three level 50s last weekend in anticipation of this patch. That money is gone already, just from mod swapping for one character's appearance (and 200k for the augmenting, which is reasonable as I made the kits myself). An appearance tab shouldn't be this ridiculously expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodcharged Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This. I have not done dailies in about 3-4 months. I detest dailies. Then maybe MMOs aren't for you, or better yet learn to use the GTN properly and you will still have plenty of Credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaizrin Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I know its frustrating right now, however from everything I've seen their theory is "Implement, then tone down." Recently they just implemented extremely huge credit sinks in the form of the Legacy system that has never before been so expensive. They will most likely want to wait and make sure this is working before yet again reducing the cost of ripping out mods. Remember this game is still in its infancy and the longer they make sure the top end players are spending their money the better it is for the economy of the game. I remember in WOW all the top guilds had so much money prices would sky rocket for a solid month after content patches for whatever the hot ticket items were. This isn't WOW, I know, I know don't worry. The point I'm trying to bring to light is that sometimes it is best to slowly implement cost changes to make sure you don't upset the entire balance. Game economy is extremely difficult. They clearly want you to be able to switch mods around. They clearly want to decrease the cost. They did, a small, controllable amount. They have made it very clear they plan on implementing dual spec or spec swapping. They have implemented a brand new credit sink that is actually productive for the players and they need to make sure that it takes hold before turning down the cost on mods even more. Actually, they need to make sure this grabs hold at all before making anything cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I agree wit OP....To damn expensive >.< I'm not a huge fan of Dailies, but not against them for comms and money, and though I like to try and min/max the best I can, I'm one of those players that just doesnt have the time to make all these "easy credits" I dont mind putting the work in, but as a father of 1 and soon another baby with a full time job and etc etc, I dont get to play nearly as often and it really sucks to be penalized for it....Now I'm not saying we need to do away with all money sinks and I deserve special treatment or anything...But I just want to be able to swap mods in to gear I like without having to spend every credit I have and/or waiting to swap mods until I have all the credits when I have no clue how long it will take... There is no reason to make it any more expensive then 5k a pop at most when most of us are just trying to put the mods from a raid drop in to gear we like the look of...Ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindSpore Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Agreed, pleease remove the cost for pulling mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Oh and "p.s." Bioware ... Id like to use T7 and /or SCORPIO again. Theyve been sitting in my ship for months now because even if I was rich, there is no way in hell I can possibly justify paying ~100k per piece of gear just because they happen to be droids ... while Kaliyo and Scourge perform just as well without spending a dime extra! Thats just bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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