Lionflash Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You're assuming the enemies in the class quest are harder than enemies fought elsewhere. 'The Hero of Tython' does defeat the more powerful enemy in the game (as mentioned by the above poster). So...yes, I think that the more powerful foes are in the class quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just played one class through, but from what I saw and heard by now, by "Importance" it seems a bit unmatched between Force Users and Non-Force Users. For example, Jedi Knight has to solve planet crisis and the fate of the Jedi on Tython still as a Padawan, while the Smuggler is, well, searching for his ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just played one class through, but from what I saw and heard by now, by "Importance" it seems a bit unmatched between Force Users and Non-Force Users. For example, Jedi Knight has to solve planet crisis and the fate of the Jedi on Tython still as a Padawan, while the Smuggler is, well, searching for his ship. I don't mind that though. It'd be silly if the Trooper, Agent or Smuggler were all about saving the galaxy from big bad monsters. Instead, the Trooper (and to an extent, the Agent) fulfils military objectives, the Agent otherwise performs infiltration, sabotage and furthers the interests of the Empire, and the Smuggler just kicks through the Galaxy being suave and sexy and occasionally picking up some riches along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistress_Ivi Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 A light side SI beats a DS si because a dark side SI would end up like the dark council member lord scourge killsfrom the revan novel becoming a shell having to spend a large amount of time to build up enough power to use one ability due to the massive corruption, where as a light side SI would be less weakened by age and corruption and their for able to fight effectively. If you recall act 2, going into act 3... Belsavis, the whole corruption thing was solved alongside the ghost problem... The Inquisitor is no longer a Twi'lek, or whatever race you pick, they are rebuilt to be more powerful innately and withstand the test of time... granted, they'll have to meet their maker before Bane comes along, but the point stands; corruption is not an issue for the Inq. Ignoring the advanced classes, going by lore... The Inquisitor would kill everyone; despite any counters from Jedi; they don't die - period. They don't seem able due to their reconstructed bodies and 3-5 ghost buddies keeping them pretty much immortal; the Jedi would basically have to out-live the Sith in order to win... and even then, they'll kill the Jedi as a Ghost. The Agent would be able to tick the others off the most, crippling, destroying, maybe even weakening targets; but only the Trooper would fall hard (after a lengthly, but futile attempt of a fight) due to the fact out of all the targets, the Trooper is too... Uniform. Smugglers, without a ship... they are ticked off and itching for some dirty fight, they'll dodge knives and counter with a shotgun or a nad kick; they'll use smaller arms and whatever comes to mind to win - I'd argue the closest fight. Warrior would lose to Knight, sadly, and I'd argue the Counsular would lose with the Warrior for the simple reason... the Warrior is too witty or too vicious for the diplomat (although, I'll admit gameplay not lore would go WAY against that). and don't even get me started on Bounty Hunters, they'd prob collect the corpses at the end and cash in once the Inquisitor has started violating the Jedi something Chronic... because, you know, she loves torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why does this thread exist... Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIIconoclast Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why does this thread exist... Why? to have a civilized debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why does this thread exist... Why? Just to annoy the easily annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why does this thread exist... Why? Because some people have to show off how awesome they are because they chose the class that would clearly win because it is the one that is most Mary S.....I mean most powerful clearly meaning they are likewise a paragon among men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adiari Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Despite playing a Bounty Hunter and wanting to say that they would take it beacuse they can be Mandalorian (and hence get things like Beskar'gam)... .... I'd have to throw it to the Imperial Agent/Smuggler, I mean come on. Orbital Strikes anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Gameplay is not Lore. This thread is about which class is stronger according to the lore. If we're accepting quests as part of lore, then my post stands. The agent or the bounty hunter or whoever completely wipes out the Green Jedi, and it's not particularly difficult. Unless you discount all quests that disagree with your claim, it's pretty clear that normals can and do kill trained force-users pretty regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If we're accepting quests as part of lore, then my post stands. The agent or the bounty hunter or whoever completely wipes out the Green Jedi, and it's not particularly difficult. It's just a fact that you can't have every single Jedi/Sith NPC in the game be a level 50 Champion boss, so it falls under "Gameplay". One would assume that you wouldn't argue that killing an angry animal is somehow harder than killing a Mandalorian war veteran, yet there are plenty of animal mobs who far outclass Mandalorian mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If we're accepting quests as part of lore, then my post stands. The agent or the bounty hunter or whoever completely wipes out the Green Jedi, and it's not particularly difficult. Unless you discount all quests that disagree with your claim, it's pretty clear that normals can and do kill trained force-users pretty regularly. 'The Green Jedi' are the canon fodder of the Jedi in this game. They don't stand up to 'The Hero of Tython' and are there just to be killed I think... Here's what I think. I think 9/10 times 'The JK' would beat 'Cipher Nine' and 'The Grand Champion of the Great Hunt'. If you threw them in 100 different possible scenarios and situations The JK' would come out on top most of the time. Meaning if you had them in varied battle fields, random starting distances and different circumstances 'The Normals' would have their share of victories. But 'The Force-users' would win most of the time, and therefor are the more reliable winner. Not to derail the topic, but another question could be, which faction would win? As in... Barsen'thor Hero of Tython Ace Unidentified Havoc Squad Commander VS Grand Champion of the Great Hunt Cipher Nine Darth Nox "Emperor's Wrath" ...in a 4vs4. I would have to go with the Empire side, because I think 'Ace' and 'Havok Squad Commander' are outclasses by their counter-parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrmeno Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Edit: Double post.... Edited July 13, 2012 by Sacrmeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrmeno Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The Jedi Knight relies on lightsaber skills mainly, and the bounty hunter has lightsaber proof armor, and flamethrowers, and rockets....... I'll just leave it up to you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) The Jedi Knight relies on lightsaber skills mainly, and the bounty hunter has lightsaber proof armor Oh look, another Fandalorian who thinks Mandos are some kind of Mary Sue supermen. I'll just leave it up to you.... http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1e/Jangodied.JPG Yep. Totally lightsaber proof. Edit: Fixed picture link. Edited July 13, 2012 by HellbirdIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aalexi Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Oh look, another Fandalorian who thinks Mandos are some kind of Mary Sue supermen. http://images2.fanpop.com/images/polls/151000/151288_1228772126744_full.jpg Yep. Totally lightsaber proof. Jessica Simpson is a mandolorian? And good job on the civilised debate. It's nice when polite people like you come in to resect someone elses opinion and raise the bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Jedi Knight. Specifically the Jedi Guardian. Why? Because one lightsaber wielding Jedi generally win in the canon (Revan, Obi-Wan, Luke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Oh look, another Fandalorian who thinks Mandos are some kind of Mary Sue supermen. http://images2.fanpop.com/images/polls/151000/151288_1228772126744_full.jpg Yep. Totally lightsaber proof. And while Jessica Simpson used to be fun to look at, I fail to see what she has to do with this debate. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraavick Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lorewise, I would say the sorceror would win. The sorceror is the master of the dark side of the force, the very essence of destruction. Channeling dark lightning or crushing darkness with a power unmatched, I dont see how anything could defeat them in a "fair" fight. Not to mention, the senses of such a master of the force would be greater than that of the jedi knight or sith warrior, giving him greater warning to assassination attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Jessica Simpson is a mandolorian? I linked a picture of Mace Windu lopping Jango Fett's head off. Even tested the URL after posting. Must be something with the website I linked from. I'mma go back and edit the post with a proper upload, thanks for pointing out the glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 'The Green Jedi' are the canon fodder of the Jedi in this game. They don't stand up to 'The Hero of Tython' and are there just to be killed I think... It's just a fact that you can't have every single Jedi/Sith NPC in the game be a level 50 Champion boss, so it falls under "Gameplay". One would assume that you wouldn't argue that killing an angry animal is somehow harder than killing a Mandalorian war veteran, yet there are plenty of animal mobs who far outclass Mandalorian mobs. Honestly, the gameplay difficulty isn't even central to my point. The fact is that the *game* treats them as easy enemies. You originally get a quest to kill them from a two-bit bounty hunter that doesn't have the stones to fill his own contract. Then you get a couple more quests to kill more of them as an aside, including a bounty-board message. Many mundane enemies are treated as more dangerous than them. It's true that they're just trash mobs, but the point remains that if Bioware is placing trained Jedi out there as trash mobs, that's part of the game world and therefore to some extent part of the lore. That is, they were a speedbump on the PC's way to the temporary conquest of Corellia. If I were really concerned about the gameplay difficulty, I'd have pointed out any number of elite invincible famous Jedi that also got summarily stomped. Heck, we could get really stupid and set up some kind of duel if we were really talking about gameplay (I promise your Guardian will die slowly and painfully to my Operative healer. There's really no other way to kill people, is there?) Here's what I think. I think 9/10 times 'The JK' would beat 'Cipher Nine' and 'The Grand Champion of the Great Hunt'. If you threw them in 100 different possible scenarios and situations The JK' would come out on top most of the time. My unstated position (since the beginning) is actually "it depends on who is writing the story." Since I'm mentally writing this story, the agent wins. Barsen'thor Hero of Tython Ace Unidentified Havoc Squad Commander VS Grand Champion of the Great Hunt Cipher Nine Darth Nox "Emperor's Wrath" ...in a 4vs4. I would have to go with the Empire side, because I think 'Ace' and 'Havok Squad Commander' are outclasses by their counter-parts. I haven't played the BH, but having played the inquisitor and consular, I'd note that the inquisitor seems more formidable, since most of the class story involves accumulating personal power and fighting to survive rather than building an army and playing diplomat. I'm probably biased by being disappointed by the consular story. My first two 50s were Empire, so I'm pretty familiar with the stories on that side, so when I play Republic side and run into things like (consular spoilers) all this talk about the Children of the Emperor being key to Imperial strategy, I scratch my head. Between being Cipher Nine and a Dark Council Member, I'd expect to know something of Imperial strategy. So when my consular is told that the Children of the Emperor are key leaders and central to Imperial plans, I'm annoyed. If they're as important as the consular is told, I should have at least heard of them on my Empire toons, given that most people in the Republic seem comfortable with the concept. The inconsistencies between the faction stories frustrate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Honestly, the gameplay difficulty isn't even central to my point. The fact is that the *game* treats them as easy enemies. Well if you want to go that route, the Agent is probably the weakest class in the lore, because of the sheer numbers of Imperial intelligence operatives, snipers, spies and grunts you end up slaughtering through the Republic quests (Only beating out the Trooper by a small margin because the Trooper is supposed to be a Special Forces soldier and Republic SF are rarer as enemy mobs than Imperial Intelligence, but only just). For the record, my mains are Trooper and Bounty Hunter, not Jedi. My unstated position (since the beginning) is actually "it depends on who is writing the story." Since I'm mentally writing this story, the agent wins. ... So your argument is that the Agent wins because you're the kind of writer who disregards the primary canon in favor of making stuff up to support your fan favorite? Edited July 13, 2012 by HellbirdIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 oh silly jedi you seem to have forgotten the lesson of HK-47 sonic grenades sonic screamers cluster rockets plasma charges, mines can also beeffective as many jedi will run to meet you in hand to hand combat, silly jedi. gas grenades also work provided they effect the skin as well since many jedi can hold their breath but its only useful as a distraction. energy shield are effective against lightsabers. thus snipeing and using cover are always advantages and of course the pasagisim of jedi and sacrfise ie kill their allies. LINK This all points out to me as the winner would be trooper Bh smugglers or agent. now who would beat them is anouthr question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellbirdIV Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The point HK-47 makes is that you need all those tools to have a chance against a Jedi, whereas a Jedi (Or Sith) can pretty much just fly up to your face and lop your head off because they feel like it <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The point HK-47 makes is that you need all those tools to have a chance against a Jedi, whereas a Jedi (Or Sith) can pretty much just fly up to your face and lop your head off because they feel like it <.< he doesnt say you need all of them. you gain a suprise attack by sniping a jedi you dont need to then use a cluster bomb on his corpse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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