Noticeable change?

[Sir_D]

Ok so the 'nerfs' are live, anyone noticed a change to their survivability in PvE or PvP? From a PvP point, I have noticed 0 survivability issues. It still takes effort to kill a tankasin. Actually if I'm going to be honest I have noticed I die slightly faster but the difference isn't huge and has not caused me to respec or change my gear around. Healing wasn't something I relied upon pre 1.2 and so doesn't make a difference after 1.3. Also because I run 21 points in Darkness I don't have HD and so the HD healing doesn't impact me.

 

When I read the notes I was convinced these changes where due to PvP reasons rather than PvE. And for me nothing has changed. Hybrid tanks are still viable.

 

What do you guys think? Noticed any difference in your PvP or PvE performance.

[TheRealCandyMan]

I've noticed a huge difference in trying to tank HM LI. It was a lot more difficult but maybe I was just having a bad day.

[Vellskud]

When I read the notes I was convinced these changes where due to PvP reasons rather than PvE. And for me nothing has changed. Hybrid tanks are still viable.

One problem for PvP was that the majority of people were using DPS gear which allowed others to whine about wither being OP, hence the -10% bonus dmg (this is just my speculation). I myself have talked to some others and none of us have noticed anything significant changes for full darkness tanks in HM FP's. I'm not sure about ops yet(after all the update did come out today).

[Blarginater]

The nerf virtually did nothing in pvp, imo. Did a few matches today, felt the same as always, except no relic/adrenal procs to burst down ppl =/.

 

Pve, some fights did hit hard, but due to all the new augments, I felt even less squishy than pre 1.3.

[Fergz]

healing pet a must now

[Rynis]

Like you said, in PvP...barely noticeable. Bring on the nerf threads!

 

PvE wise...Tanked HM EC tonight and did perfectly fine. Nerf was fine IMO.

[timidobserver]

From my experience, noticeable in PVP but not the end of the world, but it makes hm raids untankable unelss you are full rakata with all augments. Edited June 27, 2012 by timidobserver

[Neoforcer]

We die first and fast might as well roll dps or heals there top dod now.

[Griad]

Cleared EC HM yesterday with 2 assassin as tanks, i did seem to take more damage but we have pro healers, but i would recon a group with little lower gear would have quite hard time healing the extra damage. On thursday its NM pilgrim time curious to see how it turns out.

 

On a different note it seems like my crits are higher and my overall dps seemed about 100 dps higher than the last few EC runs and lastly i seemed to notice that my selfheal from dark charge seemed to fire more then normal.

[Astarica]

The armor nerf is not signifcant in itself. However the significant increase in DPS of every character is an indirect nerf since now everyone including Marauders are getting instant gibbed, our speciality (survivality) is no longer as good. It might not even be a bad idea to go back to Deception now since survivality now means 4 seconds or 5 seconds and maybe you can actually do enough DPS to justify dying 1 second faster. Before, the difference between Deception and Darkness is like 4 seconds or 40 seconds until you die. Deception really hasn't changed (you can only die so fast) but Darkness definitely went down a lot as a result of everyone's increase in DPS.

 

Ironically I dominate the WZ leaderboard numbers more than I used to with these changes but it feels really stupid to just go in, do 3-4 moves and then die. I mean, if I enjoy playing like that, I might as well pick Deception. Now, don't take this to mean Deception is actually better (it's not), but right now the general TTK in WZ is just so ridiculously low that I'm almost thinking it's not really possible to die any faster (even though it surely is possible) so you might as well roll Deception. To be fair, if you actually tried that, you'll probably find you do die in one GCD and you'd still be worse off, but it sure feels like it can't possibly get any worse.

[tXHereticXt]

I've noticed a huge difference in trying to tank HM LI. It was a lot more difficult but maybe I was just having a bad day.

 

That FP is always difficult however. But yes, because Incinerate is a tech, I believe, you need to interrupt it and if you get flames on you - pop Shroud quick to get rid of it.

 

To be honest, LI is not a good FP to compare your class as. It's meant to be difficult but I would say I have noticed I'm taking more damage than necessary which bugs me. I'm standing at full Columi and getting eaten countless times by LR5 but granted, so does my Jugg with all Columi as well. It would probably be better to hit something like Black Talon instead since that is the best and first FP you should try when starting up HMs.

 

 

 

I definitely feel it, I also feel my healers having to work a little harder to keep me alive which doesn't bode well with me, especially during PUG runs because it's so easy to find a healer that doesn't know what they're doing.

[Dhariq]

That FP is always difficult however. But yes, because Incinerate is a tech, I believe, you need to interrupt it and if you get flames on you - pop Shroud quick to get rid of it.

 

To be honest, LI is not a good FP to compare your class as. It's meant to be difficult but I would say I have noticed I'm taking more damage than necessary which bugs me. I'm standing at full Columi and getting eaten countless times by LR5 but granted, so does my Jugg with all Columi as well. It would probably be better to hit something like Black Talon instead since that is the best and first FP you should try when starting up HMs.

 

I definitely feel it, I also feel my healers having to work a little harder to keep me alive which doesn't bode well with me, especially during PUG runs because it's so easy to find a healer that doesn't know what they're doing.

 

Ehrm... you are talking about 4 man content with minimal damage to begin with. Do 16 man and hope noone cares that you suck when it comes to mitigation and that your so called self-heal "mitigation" still heal a set amount which is pro mitigation fail design from bioware when you actually become worse by just entering the same content in 16 man compared to 8 man.

 

If a coder here at work suggested that a percentage (mitigation) or a varying target (incomming damage) could be off-set by a set value (self healing) could match across the board he would be fired. Bioware accepted that they failed (which they did) so they tweaked around with the values hoping it would work this time. Guess what? It never will as it is mathematically impossible. If you think that you can make it scale you are simply... well uneducated.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Dhariq

[tXHereticXt]

Ehrm... you are talking about 4 man content with minimal damage to begin with.

 

He simply used LI as a viable comparison, I was saying it is not a good source for assessing the class at this point because all tanks can have a problem there.

Edited June 27, 2012 by tXHereticXt

[Dhariq]

Well percent is percent so no matter which 4 man you are talking about it is far from what people know truly suck with this change.

LI is not that bad if you just treat it like raid content. Nail the mechanics and you nail the fight as then it is just another 4 man.

[Maestrodomus]

Did EC HM last night and noticed no difference. In fact I felt stronger because I finally put to use BH Implants/Ears and a campaign piece I've been sitting on waiting to be aug'd with the patch; lost a bunch of accuracy in place of a **** ton of shield/abs. One more piece of Campaign and I'll have the 2% back I lost in base mit after the armor reduction.

[upzie]

Got to play 15 games in rwz last night, vs what are considered to be some of the best oppenents on our server "Tonmb of Fredonn Nadd" - And I felt 0 issues with the changes that have been made, if anything, some of the gear changes made it feel even better than before - This could ofc. be because we finaly had 8 comptetent players in the same wz /shrug. But so far I've got no complaints.

[Metajedi]

The armor nerf is not signifcant in itself. However the significant increase in DPS of every character is an indirect nerf since now everyone including Marauders are getting instant gibbed, our speciality (survivality) is no longer as good. It might not even be a bad idea to go back to Deception now since survivality now means 4 seconds or 5 seconds and maybe you can actually do enough DPS to justify dying 1 second faster. Before, the difference between Deception and Darkness is like 4 seconds or 40 seconds until you die. Deception really hasn't changed (you can only die so fast) but Darkness definitely went down a lot as a result of everyone's increase in DPS.

 

Ironically I dominate the WZ leaderboard numbers more than I used to with these changes but it feels really stupid to just go in, do 3-4 moves and then die. I mean, if I enjoy playing like that, I might as well pick Deception. Now, don't take this to mean Deception is actually better (it's not), but right now the general TTK in WZ is just so ridiculously low that I'm almost thinking it's not really possible to die any faster (even though it surely is possible) so you might as well roll Deception. To be fair, if you actually tried that, you'll probably find you do die in one GCD and you'd still be worse off, but it sure feels like it can't possibly get any worse.

 

Deception is now down to 1-2 moves before you die = D I just switched over to Darkness spec for the first time since im so fed up with deception survive... Even with the nerf im doing 10 times better then i was and I barely know how to play the spec

[TheRedNalroni]

From my experience, noticeable in PVP but not the end of the world, but it makes hm raids untankable unelss you are full rakata with all augments.

 

Tbh this was expected, Theyre doing exactly what every MMO has done before it.

Adjusted the classes for end game content as they acquired the gear to make it more trivial.

 

Each class Scales differently with gear and gets nerfed as they get more geared up.

It will always hit the little guys harder than anyone else.

Which is why theyre giving black hole commendatiosn away practically.

[Astarica]

Deception is now down to 1-2 moves before you die = D I just switched over to Darkness spec for the first time since im so fed up with deception survive... Even with the nerf im doing 10 times better then i was and I barely know how to play the spec

 

Yeah, I know when I walk in and die in 3 GCDs, it'd just be 1 GCD if I was Deception but I can't help but to ask "Maybe it can't possibly get any worse", and if I was Deception I can at least swing my lightsaber like a yoyo.

[TheRealCandyMan]

I've noticed a huge difference in trying to tank HM LI. It was a lot more difficult but maybe I was just having a bad day.

 

Looks like I was having a bad day. I tanked KP HM today with nothing but Columi gear and it was fine. No wipes, no death, super smooth.

[Smilingdeath]

This is the 3rd nerf on toons I play, im not happy.

 

Roll back and unnerf em please.

[Jorrvask]

This is the 3rd nerf on toons I play, im not happy.

 

Roll back and unnerf em please.

 

Your sig.......how ironic

 

Yoda : DO or Do not, there is no try.

Me: Play or dont play , There is no whine.

[NotRonin]

Tanked Lost Island HM last night : don't feel much difference if you have a competent healer. The 100% threat bonus and the ability to wither around cc-ed mob is great.

 

The biggest change for me is the augment and the PvP relics. My Columi/BH geared (my guild already have two tanks, so I don't get to raid..) Assassin now has 30%, 40% shield and 50% absorb, compared to 27%/40%/40% from before. If the damage can be mitigated by shield, I am taking far less damage.

[Sagavellius]

Yea it seems with the huge upgrade we got from having all items augmented it offsets the nerf, even Denova HM is still doable, while both other tank both got the huge upgrade too.

 

Though I do feel the difference and I get to sweat a little seeing my life going down that fast. Now we have to relly on our healers a lot more to survive with the healing nerf, which is not a bad thing to be honnest... as long as they can keep up.

 

As far as the aggro boost, I really really dislike this change. It used to be a little challenge to keep aggro on packs of mobs, and used to be fun, now I barely have to use taunts anymore it's ridiculously easy.

[rodgambit]

I think with the change to adrenals the deception spec just got worse with 1.3 and now there is a larger dispartiy between tankassin and the other 2 specs. A tankassin pulled 600k in a match the other night and they can easily stack power with auto crits on shock and 3 recklessness charges.

 

Deception lacks in burst like OPS and sustained high pressure like Maras and versus darkness has much less utility/survivability.

 

Madness IMO is more squishy than deception and the dots don't put enough pressure on people to make a noticiable difference. The thing that really irks me is that the tank spec does force lightning the best and back in beta we had a 15 meter no cooldown force lightning. I think voltaic slash needs to be replaced to provide more burst and madness needs to be reworked with shorter duration dots, shorter cooldowns on things like deathfield and some way to make force lightning a go to ability.

Edited June 29, 2012 by rodgambit