Leathen Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) What are you guys building stats wise now ? Theres various posts on this forum but some are now outdated and have conflicting information. Is 1700 cunning still a soft-cap target ? People say that the return for damage is better stacking power than cunning (once you reach the 35/75 crit/surge) From my understanding for a DPS concealment operative the following should be your precedence ... 1) Expertise 2) Cunning to around 1700 3) Crit chance to 30% (35% buffed) 4) Surge to 75% minimum 5) Throw everything else into power once the above are met. Any thoughts ? Edited June 26, 2012 by Leathen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizael Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What are you guys building stats wise now ? Theres various posts on this forum but some are now outdated and have conflicting information. Is 1700 cunning still a soft-cap target ? People say that the return for damage is better stacking power than cunning (once you reach the 35/75 crit/surge) From my understanding for a DPS concealment operative the following should be your precedence ... 1) Expertise 2) Cunning to around 1700 3) Crit chance to 30% (35% buffed) 4) Surge to 75% minimum 5) Throw everything else into power once the above are met. Any thoughts ? 1) Percentage full war hero and a power color crystal for power instead of expertise will yield slightly higher hits, weather it is worth it or not is up to interpretation. 2) Cunnings damage contribution (point per point done by 1.14*cunning) will yield a 0.228 + damage contribution. This is only .002 less than that power contribution per point and NEVER dr's. The softcap is only with respect to the crit contributions which honestly is not that large of a hit. Not to mention that this added bonus to crit regardless of if its .5% or .2% is still going to allow you to reduce crit based on your gear and increase power. 3) I agree I love 30% crit (35% buffed) as a concealment operative as if you do not crit you pretty much do no damage (fail design). 4) mhmm, 75% is good but stacking surge is going to DR giving a greater flexibility of gear (for example the mender implants for op can increase more damage for you, and since surge is "hard capped") 5)Yay Power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leathen Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Im currently running with (approx) 1360 expert 1700 cunning 35.6% crit 78.9% surge 850 power As time goes on I'll be replacing more stuff with BiS to bring up 'power' a little more, i was just trying to figure out if I needed that much cunning and surge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) My healer operative in full BM has 40% crit but 65% surge so I added 3 surge augments to bring it up to 73% and the rest of the augs I'm going with are end/cunning. So I have 700 power, 40% crit, 73% surge and now just need to boost end/cunning. Edited June 28, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cortea Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I find it interesting people claim power is worth more than cunning. Is there any evidence of that? Other than the theoretical fact that yes, eventually, it will be worth somewhere between 0 and 0.002 more, how are people coming up with these 1700 numbers? You need enough cunning that the bonus crit hits such a hard DR that it is worth less than 0.002. It should actually be easy enough to math that out, but I'm not motivated to dig out the formulas to mathematically prove something I already believe. But you just want to find the point in the crit DR that the bonus damage contribution is less than 0.002. But i'll demonstrate it with the sim and a binary search: 60000 cunning cunning 0.3893 power 0.3935 error margin 0.001 As you can see, there the DR has pushed the bonus crit contribution to cunning's worth below the .002 difference, within the error margin of .001. It's what we expect to see for extremely large values of cunning, or by implication, extremely low values of crit from cunning. 60000 is pretty crazy though. Lets halve it. 30000 cunning cunning 0.3923 power 0.3957 error margin 0.0005 So cunning has ever so slightly increased, as expected, but power is still worth more, within the margin of error. 30000 is still pretty crazy, so halvies again: 15000 cunning cunning: 0.3977 power: 0.3892 error margin: .0003 OK here we have tipped the balance. at 15000 cunning, it is worth between 0.0082 and 0.0088 more than power. We know now that the point of cunning at which power becomes more valuable is somewhere between 15000 and 30000, both currently beyond known reach in game. So yes, sure, it is true that for high enough values of cunning power will be worth more because of DR on the crit. But I think people are forgetting to define "high enough" and assume things like "a bit less than the best we can get in game" (1700-2100) instead of "more than 7 times what we get in game" ( over 15000 (but less than 30000!)) And for kicks, lets see how more normal amount of cunning shapes up. 2200 cunning cunning: 0.4184 power: 0.3654 error margin 0.007 or about 15% more value in cunning. If you're stopping at 1700 so you can stack power, you may want to reconsider or at least base your decision on evidence. On my testing you're losing about 15% of the value. Edited July 2, 2012 by cortea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobiusZero Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 People seem to forget the +5% buff, which makes Cunning more valuable, purely damage wise. The +crit is just an added bonus (and a pretty good one, at that, since it's a different soft cap than crit.). I'd personally take cunning over power, whenever there is a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cortea Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) The 5% was already factored in when Rizael wrote 2) Cunnings damage contribution (point per point done by 1.14*cunning) will yield a 0.228 + damage contribution. This is only .002 less than that power 1.14 is 9% from talents and 5% from the buff. So taking into account the buff and the talent, power is ever so marginally better. The thing that seals the deal for cunning is the crit component. Without that power would win always. Edited July 2, 2012 by cortea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 My stats self buffed at the moment look like this (not fully optimized, mind you): Cun: 2037 Hp: 18564 Exp: 1215 Tech Bonusdmg: 866 Bonus heal: 625 Ranged Bonusdmg: 594 Tech crit: 28.6% Ranged crit: 29.7% Surge multiplier: 77.8% Power:696 This does not include the warr and bh class buffs it does include the inquisitor class buff. The reason why I started prioritizing cunning on the mods as well is the general stat distribution, those mods have more endurance and from my experience at roughly 20k hp buffed a benchmark of survivability is reached that makes everything a lot easier. Those benchmarks are what really matters in my opinion beyond simply maxing certain key numbers on damage, once you reached a gear level that makes you a threat damage wise any gain in survivability will out-weight any further damage gains in the long run and from a group perspective. (This btw is why I consider the nerf to healing taken in 1.3 the single most severe nerf in the long history of operative nerfs.) What I aim for is a a furher reduction on accuracy for a roughly 1.5% increase on the crit multiplier, and a slight increase on exp (I still use some BH mods). Also in my opinion any reduction on crit for a again in surge is worthwhile as long as you stay above approx. 27.5% crit buffed. Due to the relic and adrenal changes in 1.3 damage spikes will be down to outright luck and getting crit streaks, increasing the probability of those by approx.2% will pale in comparison to a 2% surge increase when such a lucky streak happens. (Crit happens or not in pvp due to the short uptimes, a bit more or less crit is less dangerous that the increase on the random damage spikes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leathen Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Thanks guys - im no good at all this number crunching - I just want to play We did discuss the whole power-vs-main stat in guild this week and the overall impression is (as posted above) to stack main over power. Obviously the next question now turns to how much crit % should you aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Thanks guys - im no good at all this number crunching - I just want to play We did discuss the whole power-vs-main stat in guild this week and the overall impression is (as posted above) to stack main over power. Obviously the next question now turns to how much crit % should you aim for. Mind that for other ACs power is better since they lack the boost from 3/3 imperial education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureeffinmetal Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 On a side note - Stats like Crit and Surge DO NOT DR based off their percentages. They DR based off their rating. 250-350 Crit Rating and 300 Surge are where you start seeing them DR heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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