Tatami Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was wondering when this topic would come up. The equivalent to "Sprint at level 1 will ruin the game!" that was posted a few days before 1.2. You can not make everyone happy. Bioware please don't listen to the topic creator he doesn't speak for anyone but himself. If he wants to play a game that takes years to get all your gear, he can go play Final Fantasy XI or something. I think you guys are on the right track by allowing black hole gear to be more accessible. Some people can't raid due to time constraints, don't have a raiding guild, and that shouldn't impede their gear progression. kudos Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeada Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was wondering when this topic would come up. The equivalent to "Sprint at level 1 will ruin the game!" that was posted a few days before 1.2. You can not make everyone happy. Bioware please don't listen to the topic creator he doesn't speak for anyone but himself. If he wants to play a game that takes years to get all your gear, he can go play Final Fantasy XI or something. I think you guys are on the right track by allowing black hole gear to be more accessible. Some people can't raid due to time constraints, don't have a raiding guild, and that shouldn't impede their gear progression. kudos Bioware. Agreed. If you step back and look at it, it's really quite well balanced: Solo + LFG Tool Only = ~45/week Casual Raiders (SM EC + HM KP) = ~90/week Hardcore Raiders = ~130/week So the hardcore get their stuff roughly 1.5x times faster than the casual raiders, and 3x faster than the non-raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbramble Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) How is it too much? To get a full set of black hole gear you need 495 tokens which is 80+ days at this rate. That's only if you are mad enough to do it every single day without a break. By the time you have collected the set there will probably be new content available. Stop moaning, it's fine. Edited June 25, 2012 by bigbramble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not sure if you guys understand, but its actually ~45 black hole comms per week, not 90. You can only do 1 raid lockout per week so queueing for it daily will be no good. 2 raids per week = 10 comms per week. Much better than the previous setup of 5 comms per week. Overall 45 comms will give the dedicated players who take their time to do flashpoints on daily basis a piece of gear every 2 weeks, which completes the next to best set of gear in about 3 months. I don't see how this is the end of the world. Besides in those 3 months bioware might come out with a new raid patch and more gear. Just chill and let bioware do their thing. ^^ This Not to mention 1.3 will encourage me to resub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 How is it too much? To get a full set of black hole gear you need 495 tokens which is 80+ days at this rate. That's only if you are mad enough to do it every single day without a break. By the time you have collected the set there will probably be new content available. Stop moaning, it's fine. Bigbramble you are the fountain of Wisdom in this topic. Reality is that the casuals will only do the dailies a few times a week and will do stuff like PvP or crafting to fill their time. In 80 days time there will still be lvl 50 players slowly gearing up through dailies in BH gear. The hardcore have no need to fear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwipe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hey Daeada, the calculations you made are dead on! I did some calculations myself as well and there are the numbers I got: 131 comms/week for someone in top raid guild (i.e. cleared everything), 99 comms/week for doing everything except HM EC and Nightmare Pilgrim, and 59 comms/week for doing everything possible within the group finder. The entire black hole set costs 495 Black Hole comms, this would take 1 month for top raider, 5 weeks for middle raider, and 2 months for Puggers to be decked out in full Black Hole. However, not all pieces of the Black Hole are better than Rakata. Mostly the belt, bracers, implants, and earpiece are not that much better. If you skip these, the timeline then gets shortened to 2.5 weeks, 3.3 weeks, and 5.5 weeks respectively. Here is my detailed calculation: http://dulfy.net/2012/06/25/black-hole-comms-and-gearing-in-1-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerRobEU Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) So what about players like myself, who have a life and a family? I don't have time to do operations. Should I be left in the dust because I can't devote exorbitant amounts of time to the game? Some Operations take less time than some HM Flashpoints, having a life and family doesn't exclude you from end-game content in TOR because the Operations are actually really small. EV takes around 30m whilst KP takes between 45m and 1h - there are FPs which take longer. I have a life and a family and usually get less than 2h uninterrupted gaming per night at best and I've still been able to complete most Operations so I've never understood this argument. You talk like 90% of raiders are single, unemployed or college students but almost every raider I know works full time with a young family these days. Sure they were college students 6-8 years ago whey they played WoW but not anymore. Edited June 25, 2012 by RangerRobEU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasmeadows Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Reality is most people will get at most people will not get all the black hole comms and Giving out 5 per hardmode flashpoints will actually give people an incentive to do harmode flashpoints which btw there is none and even post server transfers people are having a rough time forming flashpoint groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was wondering when this topic would come up. The equivalent to "Sprint at level 1 will ruin the game!" that was posted a few days before 1.2. You can not make everyone happy. Bioware please don't listen to the topic creator he doesn't speak for anyone but himself. If he wants to play a game that takes years to get all your gear, he can go play Final Fantasy XI or something. I think you guys are on the right track by allowing black hole gear to be more accessible. Some people can't raid due to time constraints, don't have a raiding guild, and that shouldn't impede their gear progression. kudos Bioware. yupp, and as someone who loved FFXI and saw FFXIV basically being the same game - and failing hard because of that, I can say that bioware is doing what needs to be done. the 'omg I'm the bestest and want everyone to know it!' raider may not like it, but this is the way it's going to be. the majority wants at least 'some' reward even if they don't belong to a hardcore raiding guild. on top of that... honestly... with all the calculation... do you honestly think people WOULD do it that way? show me any person that does at least one hardmode flashpoint every day and an ops every week (and all the other pve stuff that will give BH coms with 1.3) that is not either already in a raiding guild or at least server-well-known to be invited to raids ... I don't mind when someone who doesn't do raiding a whole lot still runs around with 1-2 black hole pieces. at least that way they will be somewhat geared up when my guild is running short on a spot and has to resort to picking up a random person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegororn Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 For crying out loud, make BH commendations a weekly reward or everyone is going to be rolling around in 146 gear with nothing left to do in no time flat. Do they not understand what motivates MMO players? The power of long term goals? Hey sir, i'm not one of those who are motivated by gear progression. There are lots of other reasons why someone dedicates his time to mmorpgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeada Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hey Daeada, the calculations you made are dead on! I did some calculations myself as well and there are the numbers I got: 131 comms/week for someone in top raid guild (i.e. cleared everything), 99 comms/week for doing everything except HM EC and Nightmare Pilgrim, and 59 comms/week for doing everything possible within the group finder. The entire black hole set costs 495 Black Hole comms, this would take 1 month for top raider, 5 weeks for middle raider, and 2 months for Puggers to be decked out in full Black Hole. However, not all pieces of the Black Hole are better than Rakata. Mostly the belt, bracers, implants, and earpiece are not that much better. If you skip these, the timeline then gets shortened to 2.5 weeks, 3.3 weeks, and 5.5 weeks respectively. Here is my detailed calculation: http://dulfy.net/2012/06/25/black-hole-comms-and-gearing-in-1-3/ Thanks for the validation on my numbers! I rounded down a bit on my numbers cause of the difficulty of HM LI, and the fact that for most people it's extremely difficult to pass the first boss. One other thing, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, you may want to mention in your article is the ability to reverse engineer the implants, ears, extra mods, etc for recipes and upgraded versions. For instance, the MK. 3 (I think) version of the BH Bulwark Implant is a direct upgrade of the Rakata War Leader's Implant, so there may be more potential cost for people who choose to do that and get unlucky with REing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwipe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Thanks for the validation on my numbers! I rounded down a bit on my numbers cause of the difficulty of HM LI, and the fact that for most people it's extremely difficult to pass the first boss. One other thing, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, you may want to mention in your article is the ability to reverse engineer the implants, ears, extra mods, etc for recipes and upgraded versions. For instance, the MK. 3 (I think) version of the BH Bulwark Implant is a direct upgrade of the Rakata War Leader's Implant, so there may be more potential cost for people who choose to do that and get unlucky with REing. Hmm there shouldn't be a reason to RE them in 1.3 anymore with the augment kits. Unless you are saying that MK-1 will turn into MK-2 when you learn it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MbaxterBeau Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You're being pedantic and missing the point. HM Flashpoints should not reward top tier gear so easily. If you want the top gear you should have to do Operations or be prepared to spend a seriously long time grinding weeklies. It encourages people to experience the difficult endgame content instead of giving them an easy way out. More importantly, it forces them to cooperate with others to achieve those goals. HM FP's can be pugged easily. HM Denova requires a lot of teamwork and communication. Unlike you, I prefer to delay gratification. Ultimately, it means more. Yes but unfortunately you aren't a dev and don't make the rules Some people don't like raiding because many people don't know how to behave and work as a team. Why should only the players willing to deal with ridiculous behavior get the best gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltuvion Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So what about players like myself, who have a life and a family? I don't have time to do operations. Should I be left in the dust because I can't devote exorbitant amounts of time to the game? Storymode Operations can be cleared in 40-45 minutes. My guild does that regularly and have been doing that since our 4th raid in the place. EC HM takes between 2½-4 hours, depending on whether or not people are drunk/how much fun bantering we're doing which naturally takes a bit of focus away from the game. Operations are alread far too easy as it is. Anyone arguing otherwise have serious deficiencies gamewise or simply cannot be bothered to try just a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeada Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Hmm there shouldn't be a reason to RE them in 1.3 anymore with the augment kits. Unless you are saying that MK-1 will turn into MK-2 when you learn it? Yeah, that was what I meant, sorry it wasn't clearer. Some people may prefer the stats on a Mk. 2 or 3 over the Mk. 1. If it's not possible to learn the higher Mk recipes from REing the lower Mks, then ignore me, I just always kind of assumed it would be. Edit: After checking, it seems I assumed incorrectly. Ignore me! Edited June 25, 2012 by Daeada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will end this thread right now, Hardcore gaming is dying. The money is in appealing to the casual base. After the success of the WII, gaming will never be the same. It is possible to get more then just the people who play all day, everyday. 10 Black hole commendations a day is too easy for the hardcore. It is just right for a person with full time life commitments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will end this thread right now, Hardcore gaming is dying. The money is in appealing to the casual base. After the success of WoW, gaming will never be the same. It is possible to get more then just the people who play all day, everyday. 10 Black hole commendations a day is too easy for the hardcore. It is just right for a person with full time life commitments. fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Don't worry about it. First of all, you'll be lucky if you get 1 group a week with the same server LFG, and even you get lucky enough and get that group, you will get destroyed by the first boss in every single HM FP you will try and will never even come close to getting your BH commendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeknomStun Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Unless they changed operation lockouts, I see 5 a day here for HM FP, then up to 10 a week for both operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kekuhaupio Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would agree with the OP if not for the fact that SwTor Encourages Alts alot, and i have 3 level 50's with another on the way. Esspecially with Legacy where alot of people have Reps and Imps. Gearing up all those toons, i welcome the quicker gearing. I know a few people have like 5 or 6 50's already good luck to them trying to gear them up. can you imagine taking 2-3 months just to gear up one toon then haveing 6 more to gear up after that!? Theres no way i could do more than 2 sets of dailies a day, just dont have that kind of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree that it is a bit much, i have spent a long time getting my columi gear and don't want to see my efforts becoming void by people getting BH gear so easily, it should be columi commendations at best in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damdragon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm sorry but Hardmode Flashpoints should not reward the best gear in the game. Anyone that argues otherwise is shortsighted at best. Running out of stuff to do isn't good for the player or the game. It's simple really. It's this kind of attitude that ruins games. You don't want a reward to be available because it will then make the game boring. a. You are perfectly able to not acquire that item which you obviously don't want b. Others may like it and prefer to obtain those things, because they don't have as much time or like doing the other things you would rather be doing. Asking for something like this to be changed because it's 'shortsighted' by allowing players to have options is just redunculous. Don't request options be taken away because you are compelled to 'ruin' your own gaming experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will end this thread right now, Hardcore gaming is dying. The money is in appealing to the casual base. After the success of the WII, gaming will never be the same. It is possible to get more then just the people who play all day, everyday. 10 Black hole commendations a day is too easy for the hardcore. It is just right for a person with full time life commitments. Harcore gaming isn't dying, people didn't vanished, they are still here. But yes most of the time now companies are targeting more the casual audiences which is a good and a bad thing, for us players and for them as companies. Making games for people that wouldn't fit in the previous model makes thoses players happy and enables companies to make predictable money quite easily. It's bad because it means no game for all the different niches (not only the hardcores), it's bad because it doesn't push companies at making better and different games. One of the biggest problem of TOR is it's an in-between game, a bit casual, a bit hardcore, not completely one or the other, not really pleasing anyone. As for the BH commendations, I understand who they do it for and thoses that are upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Multiple progression paths in an mmo is a good thing. I'm sure spending 4 hours a day for 2 months farming the 2nd best gear will be very appealing. Alternatively you good join the many guilds that have operations on farm and have then gear you up, which would be the more logical thing for the harcore pver to do. Edited June 25, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 They should take a page out of WOW's book and just make a weekly cap on how much you can get. That way, you could play all day and cap, or spread it out over the week. I hate having to do the same exact thing every day or be punished. I'd rather be able to get the weeks work done on my own time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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