The PvP Sorcerer & Sage Build Thread

[Cempa]

From the perspective of Sages / Sorcerers as well as other AC's assuming objective based pre made group play.

 

In your opinion how are 31 builds and why?

 

[Yeochins]

From the perspective of Sages / Sorcerers as well as other AC's assuming objective based pre made group play.

 

In your opinion how are 31 builds and why?

 

 

Lightning - Atrociously useless. You are highly immobile when dealing damage. You are easy pickings for melee classes. You don't deal good numbers at the right times for people to take you seriously. You have CC's but none which are soft besides the bubble passive. You are useless when it comes to not filling the resolve bar.

 

Madness - Solid for the CC. Creeping terror soft CC is praised by all your melee DPS. It doesn't fill the resolve bar letting them do their own thing. Instant whirlwind is clutch for objectives. You're still squishy as hell and don't deal meaningful damage. The benefit is you're highly mobile being able to dot-and-run. Melee DPS are force to weigh the option of attempting to kill you and risk getting kited for over 30 seconds to potentially die, or focus on someone a little more immobile and come after you later.

 

Corruption - Best healing in terms of raw numbers they can pump. Second worst in terms of resource management (bounty hunters are worse). However, your heals make you highly immobile and easy pickings for melee. Since your a healer you are a must-die target for the other team. Heals wont let you kite, even if you force slow and affliction slow. Since you spend most of your time on the floor or being locked down by DPS you do lackluster healing in comparison to operatives.

 

 

 

All three of the 31-point sorcerer specs are horrible for serious compositions (its not a spec thing, the class is overall bad for anything besides huttball). You have paper thin armor and are immobile when dealing damage using lightning or healing in corruption. If your team throws a guard on you and taunts the other team, they will still burn you down in 6-8 seconds flat if five people are focusing you. The survivability of a sorcerer in rateds is 100% based off of how well you can avoid damage through movement.

 

 

The only reason sorcerers will be in a rated team is because Huttball cannot be eliminated and a sorcerer makes your team 2x, 3x, or even 4x more threatening in huttball:

 

"I cant kill the sorcerer because the warrior will just jump to me, but if I don't kill the sorcerer the warrior might get pulled, or if he's a Juggernaut he will just jump to the sorcerer anyways."

Edited June 24, 2012 by Yeochins

[iphobia]

Healing - 31pt. is a good spec if you don't get focused. As you will get focused against premades, this spec is close to worthless. 21/20/0 is clearly supperior to this. Also regarding force-management.

 

Lightning - 31pt. has close to no movement, it's like a Tracer Merc. 31pt. Madness and 0/20/21 hybrid are clearly supperior to this against premades.

 

Madness - 31pt. is a very good 1v1 spec because of CT (low cd single target root), but against premades there will be 2-3 players focusing you, so this doesn't help you much. In my opinion, 0/20/21 is also supperior than this one.

 

Against PuG's, all the 31pt. specs might work, but against premades, you will need a hybrid-spec with the utility/cc-talents from the lightning tree.

[Cempa]

As some one who has been playing 0/20/21 solo for rated I STRONGLY recommend NOT taking the 2/2 talent that blinds when bubble ends.

 

I run this spec in my pre made now: 3/17/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZdcMRbMMZcMcRsrk.1

 

The only other spec you might run is 5/17/19

 

I'm disappointing that BW has not made any changes to Sorcerer talent tree to improve PvP utility for 31 builds.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Cempa

[Daiyukie]

As some one who has been playing 0/20/21 solo for rated I STRONGLY recommend NOT taking the 2/2 talent that blinds when bubble ends.

 

I run this spec in my pre made now: 3/17/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZdcMRbMMZcMcRsrk.1

 

The only other spec you might run is 5/17/19

 

I'm disappointing that BW has not made any changes to Sorcerer talent tree to improve PvP utility for 31 builds.

 

The bubble blind is really annoying from my point of view as DPS Scoundrel, so why do you suggest not taking it?

[Cempa]

The bubble blind is really annoying from my point of view as DPS Scoundrel, so why do you suggest not taking it?

 

Good question, the reason being inside 8v8 as ranged you really do not want to add to Resolve at all and allow your melee to use there CC for that. To make things worse it is an AE ability which means you can easily fill Resolve for half of the other team at the worst possible time.

 

Edited June 24, 2012 by Cempa

[Daiyukie]

Good question, the reason being inside 8v8 as ranged you really do not want to add to Resolve at all and allow your melee to use there CC for that. To make things worse it is an AE ability which means you can easily fill Resolve for half of the other team at the worst possible time.

 

 

But you probably shouldn't be in a dog pile in th first place, right? And it's not like flashbang which fills 98% of a resolve bar in one go. I can understand that not having full control over an AoE CC isn't the most convenient, but it can be worked WITH in the sense that when it blows, you get to move away from the dangerzone and your team gets to continue focusing their target, whether or not that target just got CC'd by the bubble or not. Especially in Ranked, there shouldn't be a ridiculous amount of random AoE damage going on? Not to mention smart AoE being introduced. I can't think of a time when there's a Sorc in the middle of a dogpile that also requires precision CC, honestly.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Daiyukie

[Aehgo]

Madness-Only viable dps tree for Sage and it has no burst.

Lightening-Good dps but can be put down as soon as one person turns their attention to you.

Healing hybrid is the only way to go imo.

[Blasphemerr]

Corruption or gtfô

[snaplemouton]

This thread is such a joke.

Sorc/Sage are fine in all their 31 specs. L2P or play a FOTM spec/class.

[Daiyukie]

This thread is such a joke.

Sorc/Sage are fine in all their 31 specs. L2P or play a FOTM spec/class.

 

Love unsupported opinions stated as fact.

[snaplemouton]

Love unsupported opinions stated as fact.

I won't bother explaining over 5000 words why sorc/sage are fine. They are fine. Nothing else.

What isn't fine are the FOTM.

People just keep comparing normal specs/class to OP FOTM.

And we end up with QQ posts about sorcs/sage being UP which is false.

Edited June 24, 2012 by snaplemouton

[iphobia]

This thread is such a joke.

Sorc/Sage are fine in all their 31 specs. L2P or play a FOTM spec/class.

 

Whatever this Marauder/Pyro PT reroller said.

Roll 31pt. specs so he can faceroll you without any effort or skill.

Edited June 24, 2012 by iphobia

[snaplemouton]

Whatever this Marauder/Pyro PT reroller said.

Roll 31pt. specs so he can faceroll you without any effort or skill.

 

rofl. I got no Sentinel or Vanguard. I got everything else 50. And my shadow isn't even tank.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/254/swtorcharlist.png/

Edited June 24, 2012 by snaplemouton

[SLRPSJ]

Madness-Only viable dps tree for Sage and it has no burst.

 

Well if 4.5k deathfields are not burst then yes I have no burst.

 

I run 7/3/31. I have 800 power and 4 piece stalker set bonus.

 

If one of the 'rauders on my team pops bloodthirst, I'm critting over 5k on anyone.

 

Obviously we don't have the same burst as a pyro pt, but we have dots as well as the ranged "rage-spec smash" i mentioned above. If you don't want to gear/spec to get burst, then that is on you.

Edited June 24, 2012 by SLRPSJ

[Yeochins]

I cant wait until these people who think sages/sorcerers are fine, find themselves sidelined for a Marauder, Powertech, Operative or Assassin, once rated teams start figuring out what doesn't work. Edited June 24, 2012 by Yeochins

[Blasphemerr]

I cant wait until these people who think sages/sorcerers are fine, find themselves sidelined for a Marauder, Powertech, Operative or Assassin, once rated teams start figuring out what doesn't work.

 

Ah, I sorta agree. Sorcerer healers are always going to fill a role in rated WZs. Operative healers don't have the burst healing to keep up demand and mercs are just pyrotechbait. Sorcerers add in required direct healing and effective AoE heals/damage. However DPS Sorcerers don't offer as much and it'll be much easier to pickup something else.

[pinkseid]

Wait for the fan bois Larrysomething and other random 31madness to tell you how awesome 31 madness is and how they are so awesome.

 

I play a Sorc, Marauder, Sin, Gunsliinger to a very high level. Its very noticable when fighting a 31spec, and my reaction is.. "lol 31spec... hit hit... dead sorc". Mara on a 31 corr is 6sec counterspell, with a 2nd assist... so easy to shutdonw.. .with no elec binding or backlash to worry bout. 31 Madness has 1 root thats it. Vs a PT pyro it does nothing.

 

31 Corruption and 31 Madness die so easy and do meaningless damage.

 

When against a 31 spec, they are easy kills, nothing more. The damage is ok but you hit them harder than they hit back. 31 specs have no defense options vs 2v1... at ranked8's .. expect to be hit by 4+ assist trains.

 

31 heal and dmg is so mediocre at high levels its even feasible to run plays that involve letting the enemy sorc live so they run out of mana and be more less useless.

 

19lightning minimum is the only build I would bring sorc to 8ranked

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

 

Utility dps/heal/cc is why you bring sorcs to ranked.

 

Other classes heal better and dps better. More importantly they live/survive longer and have less mana problems.

 

RDPS:

Pyro PT much more terrifying

Any sniper more useful and hits harder with no mana probs

 

MDPS:

- Mara hits harder

 

Op heals/ Merc Heal

- sorc 31 dies too easy and is an obvious achilles heel in an 8.

- Op Healers and Mercs have more defense and are hard to "kill first/sponge"

 

Sorc has too many bad matchups against multiples so its a liability to bring 31specs.

31 Corruption means no:

- elec bindings

- backlash

- instant whirlwind

pretty much free kill or sponge

 

31 Madness: You gain Creeping terror

- no elec binding

- as above

- mana problems

- not going to opt to heal/bubble teammate due to mana probs

- no real utility benefit teammates or objectives

- dmg is mediocre at best compared to PyroPT

free kill or sponge.

[vimm]

Good question, the reason being inside 8v8 as ranged you really do not want to add to Resolve at all and allow your melee to use there CC for that. To make things worse it is an AE ability which means you can easily fill Resolve for half of the other team at the worst possible time.

 

 

It adds very little resolve.

[Kyemin]

I'm one of the rares lightning sorcerers around here.

Whatever you read about lightining sorceres is untrue and missinformed.

I am rank 87, full war hero.

Achievement all as lightining sorcerer.

Yes, at the start we seem terribly imobile and even worse fragile.

The thing is that all the people that have a bad opinion about lightning sorcerers, never did learn the rotation and never did waste their time trying to understand the build.

Yes, Madness sorcerers make more DPS at the end of the warzones, but only and if the proper situation doesn't apply.

Madness sorcerers are what I call, single target DPS.

Lightning sorceres are what I call, multi target DPS.

If you find a Madness sorcerer, you'll always know he's there. He dots you, he lights you, he damages you.

If you find a true Lightning sorcerer, when you understand what's happening to your group, it's too late.

There is a rotation that gives us instant chain lightning all the time, this allows you to be mobile since you can move and the drop the load on the group. This damages 5 targets at the same time, when the chain lightning get's doulble, it will do a second time damage for half the amount. This means, with my full war hero, that in a split second I can make a lot of damage to a big group of enemies.

Once you master your lightning sorcerer, friend, you won't trade it for anything.

For me, at least, it's the best DPS in the game,

Although is fragile, you can even say weak on the 1 vs 1, drop him in the middle of a group of enemies, don't do dots so they take a while to understand wheres the damage coming from and what is that light that comes from everywhere, and you'll understand the power of a lightning sorcerer.

But master it. Learn the rotations, learn the skills (and we have a lot, stuns, overloads, blinding bubbles, rainstorms, dots, slows, etc) and you'll have a blast playing lightining. Yes, we do have thundering blast that associated with affliction always crits.

 

Be well and may the lightning open a new path in front of you.

[Lanimal]

Wait for the fan bois Larrysomething and other random 31madness to tell you how awesome 31 madness is and how they are so awesome.

 

I play a Sorc, Marauder, Sin, Gunsliinger to a very high level. Its very noticable when fighting a 31spec, and my reaction is.. "lol 31spec... hit hit... dead sorc". Mara on a 31 corr is 6sec counterspell, with a 2nd assist... so easy to shutdonw.. .with no elec binding or backlash to worry bout. 31 Madness has 1 root thats it. Vs a PT pyro it does nothing.

 

31 Corruption and 31 Madness die so easy and do meaningless damage.

 

When against a 31 spec, they are easy kills, nothing more. The damage is ok but you hit them harder than they hit back. 31 specs have no defense options vs 2v1... at ranked8's .. expect to be hit by 4+ assist trains.

 

31 heal and dmg is so mediocre at high levels its even feasible to run plays that involve letting the enemy sorc live so they run out of mana and be more less useless.

 

19lightning minimum is the only build I would bring sorc to 8ranked

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

 

Utility dps/heal/cc is why you bring sorcs to ranked.

 

Other classes heal better and dps better. More importantly they live/survive longer and have less mana problems.

 

RDPS:

Pyro PT much more terrifying

Any sniper more useful and hits harder with no mana probs

 

MDPS:

- Mara hits harder

 

Op heals/ Merc Heal

- sorc 31 dies too easy and is an obvious achilles heel in an 8.

- Op Healers and Mercs have more defense and are hard to "kill first/sponge"

 

Sorc has too many bad matchups against multiples so its a liability to bring 31specs.

31 Corruption means no:

- elec bindings

- backlash

- instant whirlwind

pretty much free kill or sponge

 

31 Madness: You gain Creeping terror

- no elec binding

- as above

- mana problems

- not going to opt to heal/bubble teammate due to mana probs

- no real utility benefit teammates or objectives

- dmg is mediocre at best compared to PyroPT

free kill or sponge.

 

I agree with Pink here as well as Cempa to a certain degree. I feel that hybrid heal and hybrid DPS are the only viable specs (with emphasis on utility). The other specs will not be part of top-rated teams. Although both your builds I have interesting questions about.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZdcMRbMMZcMcRsrk.1

That is Cempa's build my argument is why are you picking up corrupted flesh over parasitism. You have 3 points in crit chance, along with min-max WH and recklessness you will be getting quite a bit of crit self-healing so parasitism makes sense there. Or are you generally putting points in corrupted flesh because of predicting overstacking of Pyro PT's and Anhilation Marauders once rated hits. Would be curious to know why you decided to do this. Also I disagree with Backlash I understand it can be difficult to control but it doesnt fill up resolve that much and with good communication with rated team you can keep their resolve below 100%. Also having a AOE CC that keeps them clumped for AOE DPS is better than overload.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

This one is a bit closer to my build. Except I have no idea why you are picking up lightning spire haha. You are not specced into Thundering Blast or Chain Lightning and Lightning Strike is just thrown into rotation for fun (as it is often a DPS loss unless criting). I am not a big fan of the 2nd tier of lightning tree because both Exsanguinate and Lightning Spire I am not a big fan off.

 

This is my preferred Hybrid-DPS Build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZdcMRbMrZcMsRsRk.1

 

The 1% Crit I might decide to remove once augments in 1.3 come as I am just doing that to stay at 35.8% Crit. I will probably put that point in either Suppression / Parasitism or Corrupted Flesh. Not sure yet. Probably Corrupted Flesh is lots of anhilation Marauders on my servre

[Cempa]

Wait for the fan bois Larrysomething and other random 31madness to tell you how awesome 31 madness is and how they are so awesome.

 

I play a Sorc, Marauder, Sin, Gunsliinger to a very high level. Its very noticable when fighting a 31spec, and my reaction is.. "lol 31spec... hit hit... dead sorc". Mara on a 31 corr is 6sec counterspell, with a 2nd assist... so easy to shutdonw.. .with no elec binding or backlash to worry bout. 31 Madness has 1 root thats it. Vs a PT pyro it does nothing.

 

31 Corruption and 31 Madness die so easy and do meaningless damage.

 

When against a 31 spec, they are easy kills, nothing more. The damage is ok but you hit them harder than they hit back. 31 specs have no defense options vs 2v1... at ranked8's .. expect to be hit by 4+ assist trains.

 

31 heal and dmg is so mediocre at high levels its even feasible to run plays that involve letting the enemy sorc live so they run out of mana and be more less useless.

 

19lightning minimum is the only build I would bring sorc to 8ranked

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

 

Utility dps/heal/cc is why you bring sorcs to ranked.

 

Other classes heal better and dps better. More importantly they live/survive longer and have less mana problems.

 

RDPS:

Pyro PT much more terrifying

Any sniper more useful and hits harder with no mana probs

 

MDPS:

- Mara hits harder

 

Op heals/ Merc Heal

- sorc 31 dies too easy and is an obvious achilles heel in an 8.

- Op Healers and Mercs have more defense and are hard to "kill first/sponge"

 

Sorc has too many bad matchups against multiples so its a liability to bring 31specs.

31 Corruption means no:

- elec bindings

- backlash

- instant whirlwind

pretty much free kill or sponge

 

31 Madness: You gain Creeping terror

- no elec binding

- as above

- mana problems

- not going to opt to heal/bubble teammate due to mana probs

- no real utility benefit teammates or objectives

- dmg is mediocre at best compared to PyroPT

free kill or sponge.

 

Few suggestions for your build:

 

Parasitism: Of no use what so ever 1 hard cast heal is far superior. Corrupted Flesh is far..FAAAAAR...greater.

 

Backlash: My issue with it is a love hate relationship. Because I often bubble others especially when we do not have a Sorcerer healer the other team Resolve gets filled pretty fast. The love part is it makes me better last melee trains.

 

Dark Mending: Great talent to have no question there, I opted thus far to go for 3/3 Seeping Darkness 3% Crit. when Rated starts I will take another look.

 

Subversion: Of little use, its a really bad talent even for 31 Lightning!

 

3/17/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZdcMRbMMZcMcRsrk.1

 

Again, I will reassess the build after 10 or so Rated matches. We have a 31 Madness and a 31 Lightning Sorcerer in the guild and will give feedback then.

[Stavroz]

Wait for the fan bois Larrysomething and other random 31madness to tell you how awesome 31 madness is and how they are so awesome.

 

I play a Sorc, Marauder, Sin, Gunsliinger to a very high level. Its very noticable when fighting a 31spec, and my reaction is.. "lol 31spec... hit hit... dead sorc". Mara on a 31 corr is 6sec counterspell, with a 2nd assist... so easy to shutdonw.. .with no elec binding or backlash to worry bout. 31 Madness has 1 root thats it. Vs a PT pyro it does nothing.

 

31 Corruption and 31 Madness die so easy and do meaningless damage.

 

When against a 31 spec, they are easy kills, nothing more. The damage is ok but you hit them harder than they hit back. 31 specs have no defense options vs 2v1... at ranked8's .. expect to be hit by 4+ assist trains.

 

31 heal and dmg is so mediocre at high levels its even feasible to run plays that involve letting the enemy sorc live so they run out of mana and be more less useless.

 

19lightning minimum is the only build I would bring sorc to 8ranked

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

 

Utility dps/heal/cc is why you bring sorcs to ranked.

 

Other classes heal better and dps better. More importantly they live/survive longer and have less mana problems.

 

RDPS:

Pyro PT much more terrifying

Any sniper more useful and hits harder with no mana probs

 

MDPS:

- Mara hits harder

 

Op heals/ Merc Heal

- sorc 31 dies too easy and is an obvious achilles heel in an 8.

- Op Healers and Mercs have more defense and are hard to "kill first/sponge"

 

Sorc has too many bad matchups against multiples so its a liability to bring 31specs.

31 Corruption means no:

- elec bindings

- backlash

- instant whirlwind

pretty much free kill or sponge

 

31 Madness: You gain Creeping terror

- no elec binding

- as above

- mana problems

- not going to opt to heal/bubble teammate due to mana probs

- no real utility benefit teammates or objectives

- dmg is mediocre at best compared to PyroPT

free kill or sponge.

 

Very Good post

 

I agree with a lot of this.

 

Sages/sorcs bring very little additions to a group that other classes can not provide.

 

Basicaly they have 2 very very useful abilities that are great in Hutball. Rescue (freindly pull) and force wake (root on punt in telekinetic tree).

 

In terms of DPS, you would expect the softest/squishiest target in the game have the greatest output as is the case in many MMO's. The term glass cannon is commonly coined.

 

Well the Sage/sorc is more Glass then Cannon with both Snipers and Powertech's far out performing the Sage/sorc while maintaining better survivability in a group setting at the top gear level.

 

In terms of healing again the squishy nature makes them a liability. While there output is amazing there is no denying that it is not uncommon as a sorc/sage die well b4 you have even gotten half way through your recs.

The sage/Sorc simply can not counter a solid assist train even with a cross healer where the other 2 healing classes are far easier to keep alive in a group setting, as well as they have a couple neat tricks to save themselves if cool downs are available.

 

I think this is what ppl fail to realize. This games pvp (like many mmos) revolves around 8 man sqaud based battles.

In the context of this activity the sage/sorc is not up to par.

[Cempa]

I agree with Pink here as well as Cempa to a certain degree. I feel that hybrid heal and hybrid DPS are the only viable specs (with emphasis on utility). The other specs will not be part of top-rated teams. Although both your builds I have interesting questions about.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZdcMRbMMZcMcRsrk.1

That is Cempa's build my argument is why are you picking up corrupted flesh over parasitism. You have 3 points in crit chance, along with min-max WH and recklessness you will be getting quite a bit of crit self-healing so parasitism makes sense there. Or are you generally putting points in corrupted flesh because of predicting overstacking of Pyro PT's and Anhilation Marauders once rated hits. Would be curious to know why you decided to do this. Also I disagree with Backlash I understand it can be difficult to control but it doesnt fill up resolve that much and with good communication with rated team you can keep their resolve below 100%. Also having a AOE CC that keeps them clumped for AOE DPS is better than overload.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201MZbsbRbMrZcMfRsMz.1

This one is a bit closer to my build. Except I have no idea why you are picking up lightning spire haha. You are not specced into Thundering Blast or Chain Lightning and Lightning Strike is just thrown into rotation for fun (as it is often a DPS loss unless criting). I am not a big fan of the 2nd tier of lightning tree because both Exsanguinate and Lightning Spire I am not a big fan off.

 

This is my preferred Hybrid-DPS Build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZdcMRbMrZcMsRsRk.1

 

The 1% Crit I might decide to remove once augments in 1.3 come as I am just doing that to stay at 35.8% Crit. I will probably put that point in either Suppression / Parasitism or Corrupted Flesh. Not sure yet. Probably Corrupted Flesh is lots of anhilation Marauders on my servre

 

The self healing is trickle and extremely low even when talented for 100% more healing it still is a terrible PvP talent as 1 hard cast heal or 2 hard cast heals will do more healing over the entire WZ.

 

Even if you manage 100% up-time of Affliction and CD the healing is just too low and trickle...corrupted flesh is far superior.

[LancelotOC]

Even Hybrid heals, I can tell you as a valor 90 sage, can not put out the heal numbers a well geared Op/Scoundrel healer can. So no sence in playing a hybrid either. I've tried every variation relentlessly and know full well we are second rate to them. As such for competitive play bring an OP/Scoundrel or go home.