kitsinni Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 OMG PvP Geared people that spec for single target DPS in PvP with a class that has no other real function other than single target DPS in PvP is doing a lot of single target DPS in PvP ... the horror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achrystie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'll approach this a little differently, but in essence it is the same conversation. My question is HOW is it possible for a level 32 bounty hunter to do almost 400K damage, or over (I've seen over numerous times, from the same player), in a single match, and routinely hit for over 3K with both rail shot and rocket punch, as well as do as much as 25% of my health on the initial application of flamethrower? Balance and complaints aside...what spec is it that allows this? As you can see on the attached screenshot, the highest damage dealer has done almost 400K damage, at level 32. I'm number 3 on this list of players for medals earned, with my watchman sentinel (full 40 pvp gear and two level 42 lightsabers with expertise) and did, not my best damage overall (I do over 200K occasionally when the other team sucks and leaves me alone), but a decent amount and it was still less than half. I simply don't understand how a class with numerous ranged abilities, as well as heavy armor and potentially a shield, can do this much damage. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/screenshot2012062107550.jpg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) OMG PvP Geared people that spec for single target DPS in PvP with a class that has no other real function other than single target DPS in PvP is doing a lot of single target DPS in PvP ... the horror. What other function is a DPS meant to have...? Each one offers some utility, Powertechs and Sages are lucky in this respect, they have two of the best moves (harpoon and rescue). Harpoon is on a low enough cooldown to be extremely effective in objective based PVP. I'm not sure what else you want? Gunslingers have nothing as far as that goes and Scoundrels have stealth. This is about the differing damage metrics and necessary skill levels that exist between the DPS classes. I wouldn't even be able to suggest what commandos have going for them, with the exception of boink. Edited June 21, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Let me guess almost everyone crying about Powertechs play Marauders right. Until Marauders are nerfed in to the ground, I don't what to hear about Powertechs. IF you want to blame someone blame BW for making Tank Spec Powertech useless in PVP. Love you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Solution: Find your buddy that plays a Gunslinger. Have him focus the Powertech while the Powertech is focused on you. By the time the PT realizes what is going on, he'll be dead shortly after he kills you. Thank your buddy for the help. Profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 What other function is a DPS meant to have...? Each one offers some utility, Powertechs and Sages are lucky in this respect, they have two of the best moves (harpoon and rescue). Harpoon is on a low enough cooldown to be extremely effective in objective based PVP. I'm not sure what else you want? Gunslingers have nothing as far as that goes and Scoundrels have stealth. This is about the differing damage metrics and necessary skill levels that exist between the DPS classes. I wouldn't even be able to suggest what commandos have going for them, with the exception of boink. What is this rescue PT's have? Grapple is nice because you can bring people to us and pull in to fire, even though it is a bit situational, usually doesn't work because resolve is full and has a bit of a long cooldown 45s is not short in my opinion. The point is that brings people to us it sure doesn't help us stay alive. Gunslingers have cover, you can't grapple them, they do huge dps, they can stop all interrupts and you miss the majority of times you are attacking them because of cover. That is one of the hugest survivability sets you can have, stealth is the MOST OP for survivability and capping utility. Commando's can HEAL themselves how is that not the biggest part of survivability that you can get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 IF you want to blame someone blame BW for making Tank Spec Powertech useless in PVP. Love you all Tank PT isn't exactly useless, I harass opponents and keep snipers and marauders off teammates (snipers are easier to shield than other classes). Kinda sad that rocket punch will lose the 30% crit damage in 1.3 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) What is this rescue PT's have? Grapple is nice because you can bring people to us and pull in to fire, even though it is a bit situational, usually doesn't work because resolve is full and has a bit of a long cooldown 45s is not short in my opinion. The point is that brings people to us it sure doesn't help us stay alive. Gunslingers have cover, you can't grapple them, they do huge dps, they can stop all interrupts and you miss the majority of times you are attacking them because of cover. That is one of the hugest survivability sets you can have, stealth is the MOST OP for survivability and capping utility. Commando's can HEAL themselves how is that not the biggest part of survivability that you can get? Where in my post does it say Powertechs have rescue. Read again. Part in bold is huge hyperbole, cover provides 20% ranged defence, hardly constitutes 'most of the time' and renders them immobile. A PT can LOS them on a pillar, DOT them up and watch the GS sit. You can't interrupt a powertech - everything is on instant cast (hence the blatant 100% mobility issue). Commando's ability to self heal is much like the sage, it isn't going to save them mid fight against a 100% mobile class. It's useful, but it doesn't = survivability amidst a competitive environment, where healers will look to DPS to DPS and DPS to healers to heal. I'm not dismissing the idea that the other classes have utility, I'm just stating emphatically that Powertechs are not without said utility and in utterly no way is that their compromise for overpowered burst damage. Edited June 21, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrowherrow Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'll approach this a little differently, but in essence it is the same conversation. My question is HOW is it possible for a level 32 bounty hunter to do almost 400K damage, or over (I've seen over numerous times, from the same player), in a single match, and routinely hit for over 3K with both rail shot and rocket punch, as well as do as much as 25% of my health on the initial application of flamethrower? Balance and complaints aside...what spec is it that allows this? As you can see on the attached screenshot, the highest damage dealer has done almost 400K damage, at level 32. I'm number 3 on this list of players for medals earned, with my watchman sentinel (full 40 pvp gear and two level 42 lightsabers with expertise) and did, not my best damage overall (I do over 200K occasionally when the other team sucks and leaves me alone), but a decent amount and it was still less than half. I simply don't understand how a class with numerous ranged abilities, as well as heavy armor and potentially a shield, can do this much damage. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/screenshot2012062107550.jpg/ Out of curiosity, what server do you play on? I was in a huttball on my 32 PT and pulled those exact numbers - and I distinctly recall a sentinel that I got into a scruff with a few times. All I know is, it's so far been impossible for me to do more than 3k on a railshot, even with stacking as much surge gear as I can possibly find and taking the talent for 30% crit damage. Rocket punch at most will only crit for 2k at 32. Also, a DPS powertech worth his salt will not take a shield, there's no point in doing so. And it's been proven several times that heavy armor is not really that big a deal as many make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achrystie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Out of curiosity, what server do you play on? I was in a huttball on my 32 PT and pulled those exact numbers - and I distinctly recall a sentinel that I got into a scruff with a few times. All I know is, it's so far been impossible for me to do more than 3k on a railshot, even with stacking as much surge gear as I can possibly find and taking the talent for 30% crit damage. Rocket punch at most will only crit for 2k at 32. Also, a DPS powertech worth his salt will not take a shield, there's no point in doing so. And it's been proven several times that heavy armor is not really that big a deal as many make it out to be. I'd rather not say as I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, I'm mostly just looking for information as my brain clicks into gear when I see oddly large numbers, and it's against forum rules to call out names of players. The rail shot and power shot numbers were routinely 2800 to 3000 in my log, some were half of that, I assume the big ones are criticals. That said, I'm very curious, what is your talent spec/gear? Are you modding all purples into your gear with cybertech or just blues/pickups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrowherrow Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'd rather not say as I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, I'm mostly just looking for information as my brain clicks into gear when I see oddly large numbers, and it's against forum rules to call out names of players. The rail shot and power shot numbers were routinely 2800 to 3000 in my log, some were half of that, I assume the big ones are criticals. That said, I'm very curious, what is your talent spec/gear? Are you modding all purples into your gear with cybertech or just blues/pickups? This is my spec - I dinged 33 just this morning after a few warzones http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301Z0MZfhrrzh0M.1 I'm mostly geared out in blues crafted by some friends who have their cybertech/artifice maxed out, I managed to snag some very good implants and a purple earpiece with an augment, which has given me enough surge to push 70% in the warzone with bolster mechanic. My gear is probably just a little bit above the average overall, but 300k+ is the norm whenever I get rolling on my powertech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achrystie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 This is my spec - I dinged 33 just this morning after a few warzones http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301Z0MZfhrrzh0M.1 I'm mostly geared out in blues crafted by some friends who have their cybertech/artifice maxed out, I managed to snag some very good implants and a purple earpiece with an augment, which has given me enough surge to push 70% in the warzone with bolster mechanic. My gear is probably just a little bit above the average overall, but 300k+ is the norm whenever I get rolling on my powertech. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Let me guess almost everyone crying about Powertechs play Marauders right. Until Marauders are nerfed in to the ground, I don't what to hear about Powertechs. IF you want to blame someone blame BW for making Tank Spec Powertech useless in PVP. Love you all But I love my charge in PVP and to guard my heal. I don't think we're useless in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohnsonfhk Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 flame burst> flame burst >flame burst> flame burst > railshot .... phew that was hard funny but completely wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 funny but completely wrong the post you quoted is exactly why only bads complain about powertechs. yes, a good powertech will destroy you if you're bad enough to let him engage 1 on 1 with any sort of advantage (pvp buff, popping pvp adrenal when you are not, cooldowns up while you have none), but bad powertechs will self overheat and be so vulnerable to manhandling afterwards its hilarious. what're you afraid of, that fully mitigated rapid shots they have to chain now that they blew all their heat on flame bursts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letallis Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 My main prob with ptech is just that the class was the least popular class. I mean who wants to be a bounty hunter with only 1 gun? It is very very obvious why they are so popular now.[/quote Jango Fett was a PT and that alone is reason enough for me to play the class.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centures Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Add Sorcerers and Operatives to the list I think the Developers are SITH!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requitas Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 On Jung Ma, the top team (Sleens) runs 4 Powertechs. Last night my guild (Merasska) started sitting Sentinels (the supposedly most overpowered class) for Assault Vanguards, of which we now run 3 in our main comp. With Pyrotechs/Assault Vanguards in their current state, if you're looking to win, there's no reason to not stack them. Their burst capability in multiples far outweighs any utility lost by stacking them. If you try to focus one of them, our remaining Sentinel and our other 2 Assault Vanguards will chain the VG 2sec AoE stun twice into an Awe from the Sentinel, and we will likely either kill one of the attacking DPS while our targeted Vanguard gets heals, or at the very least force one of the attacking DPS to retreat. In Voidstar, when on offense in the first room, it is actually an advantage for your Pyrotech/Assault VG's to die as their is no respawn timer for the offense in the first room, thus making the class the de facto best offensive class in Voidstar as you're punished for killing them as much, if not more, than you are for NOT killing them. The problem is Bioware has designed themselves into a corner with the class. Take away their burst and there's no reason to bring them, as their burst is quite literally all they have. It is going to take nothing less than a complete and total redesign of the class to solve this problem, and in the meantime more and more people who are serious about ranked warzones are going to roll them, and more and more teams are going to sit their other DPS classes to stack them. The lack of changes to them in 1.3 is, to me, a silent admission from Bioware that they are either not aware of the problem or are aware of the problem but have no idea how to address it. One can only hope that their metrics during this pre-season will demonstrate to them that the most successful teams are stacking Assault Vanguards/Pyro Powertechs, and they will address the issue prior to the real season beginning. Until then, people who are serious about rated warzones are nearly required to level and gear one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 On Jung Ma, the top team (Sleens) runs 4 Powertechs. Last night my guild (Merasska) started sitting Sentinels (the supposedly most overpowered class) for Assault Vanguards, of which we now run 3 in our main comp. With Pyrotechs/Assault Vanguards in their current state, if you're looking to win, there's no reason to not stack them. Their burst capability in multiples far outweighs any utility lost by stacking them. If you try to focus one of them, our remaining Sentinel and our other 2 Assault Vanguards will chain the VG 2sec AoE stun twice into an Awe from the Sentinel, and we will likely either kill one of the attacking DPS while our targeted Vanguard gets heals, or at the very least force one of the attacking DPS to retreat. In Voidstar, when on offense in the first room, it is actually an advantage for your Pyrotech/Assault VG's to die as their is no respawn timer for the offense in the first room, thus making the class the de facto best offensive class in Voidstar as you're punished for killing them as much, if not more, than you are for NOT killing them. The problem is Bioware has designed themselves into a corner with the class. Take away their burst and there's no reason to bring them, as their burst is quite literally all they have. It is going to take nothing less than a complete and total redesign of the class to solve this problem, and in the meantime more and more people who are serious about ranked warzones are going to roll them, and more and more teams are going to sit their other DPS classes to stack them. The lack of changes to them in 1.3 is, to me, a silent admission from Bioware that they are either not aware of the problem or are aware of the problem but have no idea how to address it. One can only hope that their metrics during this pre-season will demonstrate to them that the most successful teams are stacking Assault Vanguards/Pyro Powertechs, and they will address the issue prior to the real season beginning. Until then, people who are serious about rated warzones are nearly required to level and gear one. My server sees the same thing. We fight rated teams with 4 powertechs. Each pug team has AT LEAST 2-3 powertechs. It's not even that the class is OP anymore, it's that it destroys the sense of fun in the game, and particularly as you see less and less iconic classes. Love how operatives were nerfed for their burst, and now you see few of them. I actually miss scrappers... and commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictusthetaru Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Guys. At least it takes 6 seconds to try and refresh rail shot now, right?! RIGHT?! Powertech / vanguard are hefty hitters, overpowered? Eh. Maybe. I can beat them though, just gotta work for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 In Voidstar, when on offense in the first room, it is actually an advantage for your Pyrotech/Assault VG's to die as their is no respawn timer for the offense in the first room, thus making the class the de facto best offensive class in Voidstar as you're punished for killing them as much, if not more, than you are for NOT killing them. . Err yes again that argument that dying is good for the pyro. I still don't see why that should be the case, CDs aren't reset on death and ressources are reset for each and every class on death. Were you the guy who posted that pyros rush in to AoE, than die and repeat? If not sry, but he had the same argument that Pyros actually benefit from dying. Which I'd love to hear you eloberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Jango Fett was a PT and that alone is reason enough for me to play the class.. Jango has 2 blaster pistols. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letallis Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Jango has 2 blaster pistols. Just saying... He also had a grappling hook.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requitas Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Err yes again that argument that dying is good for the pyro. I still don't see why that should be the case, CDs aren't reset on death and ressources are reset for each and every class on death. Were you the guy who posted that pyros rush in to AoE, than die and repeat? If not sry, but he had the same argument that Pyros actually benefit from dying. Which I'd love to hear you eloberate. No, that wasn't me. This particular aspect of the class is only salient in this one scenario: on offense in the first room of Voidstar. I don't need to guess about this when the 3 Vanguard players on my team tell me flat out they'd rather die in that scenario than be forced to try to leave combat to use Reload & Recharge. You're correct that cooldowns don't reset, but you're incorrect in thinking that resetting their resources essentially for free by dying isn't an advantage when there is no respawn timer. Further, you're incorrect that ALL classes reset their resources on death; the Knight/Warrior classes do not. After death, Sentinels respawn with 0 Focus, 0 stacks of Juyo form bonus damage (for Watchman), and 0 stacks of Centering. We have to rebuild our resources to deal our highest damage. It isn't that big of a deal, certainly, but to not understand why it's more of an advantage for a Vanguard who is out of resources to die than to try to leave combat to use Reload & Recharge is willful ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) No, that wasn't me. This particular aspect of the class is only salient in this one scenario: on offense in the first room of Voidstar. I don't need to guess about this when the 3 Vanguard players on my team tell me flat out they'd rather die in that scenario than be forced to try to leave combat to use Reload & Recharge. You're correct that cooldowns don't reset, but you're incorrect in thinking that resetting their resources essentially for free by dying isn't an advantage when there is no respawn timer. Further, you're incorrect that ALL classes reset their resources on death; the Knight/Warrior classes do not. After death, Sentinels respawn with 0 Focus, 0 stacks of Juyo form bonus damage (for Watchman), and 0 stacks of Centering. We have to rebuild our resources to deal our highest damage. It isn't that big of a deal, certainly, but to not understand why it's more of an advantage for a Vanguard who is out of resources to die than to try to leave combat to use Reload & Recharge is willful ignorance. Your pyros should learn ressource management sry. Seriously. And to add an insult to it because your pyros are not able to use an default attack in between. Amazing, really. You might want to explain to them how ammo retgeneration works. Here is a helpful link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=451651 Ignore list is getting fuller and fuller. Edited June 29, 2012 by Twor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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