Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?

[Satedbuffalo]

43 pages.

 

Cue uproarious laughter.

[Luicfer]

You say Grass or Snow you know EXACTLY where to go no matter what side you started from, you say East West that is going to change every match that you start on the other side. I would prefer knowing exactly where to go no matter where I start from and make it super easy.

 

East and West does not change based on which side you are on. The map is still oriented north regardless, east will always be east and west will always be west. Snow and Grass are non-descriptive if you're sitting in mid and personally I just ignore people that use snow and grass as directions.

 

If you are standing in mid, and someone calls east, all you gotta do is look at your radar, point your directional arrow east, and off you go. just that simple, unless people don't know which way is east and which way is west.

[BlastingGravy]

I have a few questions for those of you who use "grass" and "snow."

 

If you are at the middle point, and you can't see the side points, how do you know which direction "grass" and "snow" are?

 

What do you call the points on Novare Coast?

[Never_Hesitate]

I have a few questions for those of you who use "grass" and "snow."

 

If you are at the middle point, and you can't see the side points, how do you know which direction "grass" and "snow" are?

 

What do you call the points on Novare Coast?

 

Novare: West and east because they're on the map with this names.

Alderaan: You usually def only one of the outer nodes and then it's pretty obvious.

[Technohic]

"E 1"

 

"W 4 help"

 

they are not hard things to type.

 

First time I type that in; I am going to get some dude saying

 

"***! Why didn't you call incoming!"

 

And I will be all like; "Look bro...I did. No one came!"

 

And they will be like "All you said was w4 and I aint no accountant!"

[platinumruggo]

At this point in the game, I believe people are well acquainted with the fact that grass and snow are their west and east equivalents. Therefore, no one should even be confused. As soon as I see someone say "3 grass" or "2 snow" I immediately break off (if i'm not already in combat that is) and go to help.

[BlastingGravy]

Novare: West and east because they're on the map with this names.

So if you call them east and west on Novare Coast, why invent an entirely new system for The Civil War? Why don't you use the map names on The Civil War?

Alderaan: You usually def only one of the outer nodes and then it's pretty obvious.

First of all, this is definitely not the case, as holding the sides is not only viable, but preferable because you can shuttle straight to them. Secondly, it still doesn't answer my question. Let's say you knew that you were holding mid and "snow." How would you know which direction to go if "snow" asked for help?

Edited July 5, 2012 by BlastingGravy

[bangkokbetty]

and personally I just ignore people that use snow and grass as directions.

 

 

Then I hope you get kicked out of groups upon first sight for tilting at windmills. Accept the fact that the vast majority of pvpers use snow and grass and stop trying to change the accepted standard because of your own unnecessary stubbornness.

 

Regardless if east/west is the best definition to use (which I do not believe it is) snow and grass is now the accepted standard for CV. Live with it; there are better things to change in this world.

[bangkokbetty]

So if you call them east and west on Novare Coast, why invent an entirely new system for The Civil War? Why don't you use the map names on The Civil War?

 

First of all, this is definitely not the case, as holding the sides is not only viable, but preferable because you can shuttle straight to them. Secondly, it still doesn't answer my question. Let's say you knew that you were holding mid and "snow." How would you know which direction to go if "snow" asked for help?

 

That's like asking if you were in the living room and someone asked you "kitchen" would you know which direction to go? Would you find it abundantly helpful if someone shouted "East" instead? I suppose according to some people here you would whip out your handy compass and go "aha! I have found you kitchen" like Ponce de Leon. Or you could simply, by familiarity of the accepted English speaking title of the room with your stoves and oven as "kitchen" and make your way there.

[azurefrog]

At this point in the game, I believe people are well acquainted with the fact that grass and snow are their west and east equivalents. Therefore, no one should even be confused. As soon as I see someone say "3 grass" or "2 snow" I immediately break off (if i'm not already in combat that is) and go to help.

 

Except grass is not always east or always west and same with snow.

If you're like me and play both imp and republic alts, when you say grass or snow, I have to stop and think

"which team am I on today? which side did I start from?"

 

Left/Right works fine for republic, but is exceptionally confusing for imps where the 'right' side of your minimap requires that you run to the 'left' speeder in your starting area.

 

East/West are always, instantly obvious. I cannot fathom why people don't use them.

[Never_Hesitate]

Please just let this thread find it's way into oblivion and move on.

 

We will not get any of the three ways to tell the others, where the enemies are away.

Just use whatever you want.

 

As long as you call out the incs it is fine.

[CoLatrLdamage]

I read a lot of these and I didn't see one of the reasons East/West is the best and most frequently used. I can type the word EAST or WEST entirely with one hand. You need 2 hands for snow/grass, and for the utterly ridiculous right/left. Plus, since everyone knows east/west, in a pinch i can just type E, and people show up. That way I don't die while calling for help.

I don't know any teams that use anything other than E/W.

Grass/Snow would be ok other than what i mentioned above, but I've been playing since early release and I could not tell you sitting here which way grass is.

left/right is completely useless. Some people mean r/l facing spawn, some facing away from spawn. I had one nut-job tell me "it's stage right. Everyone knows that!" (Not me) Even if I know which way you mean I have to stop and look around to see which way I'm facing. In a pvp free-for-all. I get turned around a lot. If I have to look around to orient myself to where I spawned, that's wasting time. I can use the mini-map with my peripheral vision to immediately move E or W without further thought. I really don't understand why this is controversial. I think we should start posting our ages with our opinions. I have a feeling children aren't learning how to read a map anymore and are struggling with what adults think is common knowledge. Just a thought.

[CoLatrLdamage]

That's like asking if you were in the living room and someone asked you "kitchen" would you know which direction to go? .

 

You're not very good at analogies. This is nothing like that. If I was walking down the street and someone said East I probably wouldn't know which way that was, most likely. But in the game there is a MAP on screen at all times. With an arrow.

Anything other than E/W requires specialized knowledge in-game which not everyone has so it requires further explanation. E/W requires no special knowledge, only what should be common knowledge, applicable to real-life. Learn how to read a compass. You'll thank me later.

[Never_Hesitate]

You're not very good at analogies. This is nothing like that. If I was walking down the street and someone said East I probably wouldn't know which way that was, most likely. But in the game there is a MAP on screen at all times. With an arrow.

Anything other than E/W requires specialized knowledge in-game which not everyone has so it requires further explanation. E/W requires no special knowledge, only what should be common knowledge, applicable to real-life. Learn how to read a compass. You'll thank me later.

 

Just use whatever you want with how many hands you want and explain it if someone asks.

 

Problem solved.

 

Is this really worth the 44 sites of discussion we had in this thread?

[Varicite]

That's like asking if you were in the living room and someone asked you "kitchen" would you know which direction to go? Would you find it abundantly helpful if someone shouted "East" instead? I suppose according to some people here you would whip out your handy compass and go "aha! I have found you kitchen" like Ponce de Leon. Or you could simply, by familiarity of the accepted English speaking title of the room with your stoves and oven as "kitchen" and make your way there.

 

Do you have a mini-map UI overlay constantly displayed in your RL vision that CLEARLY shows you the cardinal directions and which direction you're facing?

 

No?

 

Then it's not like that at all.

 

Also, by your example, you should be calling them Generator, Crash Site, and Central Command Center, but I highly doubt that's what you actually do. Y'know, since those are the accepted English speaking titles of the locations.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Varicite

[RangKer]

Do you have a mini-map UI overlay constantly displayed in your RL vision that CLEARLY shows you the cardinal directions and which direction you're facing?

 

No?

 

Then it's not like that at all.

 

Also, by your example, you should be calling them Generator, Crash Site, and Central Command Center, but I highly doubt that's what you actually do. Y'know, since those are the accepted English speaking titles of the locations.

 

I... I love you!

[bangkokbetty]

You're not very good at analogies. This is nothing like that. If I was walking down the street and someone said East I probably wouldn't know which way that was, most likely. But in the game there is a MAP on screen at all times. With an arrow.

Anything other than E/W requires specialized knowledge in-game which not everyone has so it requires further explanation. E/W requires no special knowledge, only what should be common knowledge, applicable to real-life. Learn how to read a compass. You'll thank me later.

 

No, the analogy is good, you just missed the point of it.

 

There is this ironic thinking that the preference for snow and grass is based on an inability to use a compass, when the very point of snow and grass is to simplify thinking so one doesn't need to use a compass or look at the minimap at all. That's the very point. You don't need a 1 second glance to figure out which way to go. You simply KNOW much in the same way you know where your kitchen is. Even if given a graphic overlay of my house, I would still refer to my kitchen as kitchen. So would you.

 

Are you so strange in thought that, lets say your wife has a pair of google vision glasses on, you are going to say "we have an extra chair in the east room" instead of "we have an extra chair in the office?"

 

I will concede that if you are visiting my home for the first time, I'll probably have to give you directions to the kitchen. But after a couple of visits to my house, I am going to assume that you darn well better know where my kitchen is if you plan on capping a node in my home.

 

You are asking for a technical description of a location when a simple title works. By your logic, San Jose should henceforth be known as 37.3041° N, 121.8727° W and anyone who doesn't agree with you you'll say "what's wrong with you? Can't read coordinates on a map?"

 

You learn what things are called. That is how our society currently works. It is intuitive to everyone, including yourself, even though you can't admit it. An army man a few pages back agreed that cardinal directions were ever so slightly more confusing for him than descriptive locations. An army man. You know, where they PVP in real life!

 

A decent point is made for one handed typing of east/west, but this is countered by the higher chance of typos and confusion when weast is inevitably typed as pointed out earlier.

 

But again, you're missing the point. You are correct that for a new person in CV, east and west would be quicker to pick up than snow and grass. This is irrelevant. The community has already settled on grass and snow. It very easily could've been named east and west, much like novare. But it wasn't. For whatever reason we all started using grass and snow. Just like we started calling hamburgers hamburgers instead of prepared and cooked meat between two buns. For someone who doesn't know what a hamburger is, the latter would be more helpful. But I am going to assume you are going to teach your kids that its called a hamburger eventually.

 

This brings me to my final statement on the matter barring a compelling argument otherwise to the advocates of east/west.

 

You've already lost.

 

For every individual that types inc east/west, there are ten that use the standard snow/grass. You are a lonely voice crying east/west drowned out in a cacophony of Snow/Grass.

 

You are tilting at windmills.

[Varicite]

The community obviously hasn't settled on anything, as this thread is still going and no concessions have really been made other than the common:

 

Nobody cares what you call it, call it what you want and we'll come.

 

But I still personally prefer East / West, and will continue to use them. I'll still come to the node when you call it something silly like Grass.

 

But let's not pretend that because you prefer Grass / Snow, that everybody prefers it that way. You and your anecdotal evidence are not the entire community; don't kid yourself.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Varicite

[BlastingGravy]

That's like asking if you were in the living room and someone asked you "kitchen" would you know which direction to go?

You can see the kitchen from most living rooms, but you can't see either side from the center of The Civil War. Also, your ability to find the kitchen quickly is slightly less vital than in warzones. In order to find the kitchen quickly, you need to have memorized the layout of the house. Remedial map reading skills are preferable to map memorization, since it is not only easier, but is useful for all warzones instead of just one (and also real life).

Would you find it abundantly helpful if someone shouted "East" instead? I suppose according to some people here you would whip out your handy compass and go "aha! I have found you kitchen" like Ponce de Leon.

Actually, telling me to go east doesn't sound that bad to me, but perhaps I have a better sense of direction then most. And that's without having a compass and map overlayed onto my field of vision 24/7, like in TOR.

Or you could simply, by familiarity of the accepted English speaking title of the room with your stoves and oven as "kitchen" and make your way there.

Again, you miss the point. Unless you have x-ray vision, you can't see the stove and ovens from anywhere in the house. Not to mention the fact that most houses are significantly smaller than The Civil War.

 

You say that there is a consensus in the community to use "grass" and "snow," yet the length of this thread proves otherwise. In fact, I had never even once seen the terms used before server transfers. I've come to the conclusion that "East and West" is like the metric system of measurement. It's objectively better in every conceivable way than the alternative, but some people refuse to use it because they're too stubborn to change.

Edited July 6, 2012 by BlastingGravy

[The_Brick]

If you are Imperial the mini map has left / right and mid.

 

If you are Republic the mini map has left / right and mid.

 

So no matter what team you are on the left and right NEVER CHANGE AND ALWAYS WORKS.

 

USE LEFT - RIGHT - MID as they never change ever!

Left/Right is relative to your position. Yes, it never changes on the minimap. But it is relative to which side you're on and if when at mid, I have seen people consistently scatter when Left/Right is used, regardless of the WZ.

 

East/West/South are always constant, no matter which side you're on or which WZ you're playing. Also, Snow/Grass/Mid are constant in Civil War, no matter which side you're on. Really, there's no need to eliminate Grass/Snow, in all reality Left/Right seem to be more detrimental in a WZ pug.

[The_Brick]

Nobody cares what you call it, call it what you want and we'll come.

As long as you come... that's one of my biggest gripes in pugs, when nobody responds to incs called and then they QQ about no inc being called. I've left more Civil War/Voidstar/Novarre Coast matches because of that crap than any other reason.

[Never_Hesitate]

I've come to the conclusion that "East and West" is like the metric system of measurement. It's objectively better in every conceivable way than the alternative, but some people refuse to use it because they're too stubborn to change.

 

Why does everybody complain about how to call out incs?

Are your teams so advanced you can worry about how they call incs and not just that they call incs?

[Varicite]

Why does everybody complain about how to call out incs?

Are your teams so advanced you can worry about how they call incs and not just that they call incs?

 

It's marginally better than complaining about Maras, PTs, Op healers, Tankasins, Juggs, Huttball imbalances, gear imbalances, BW hating Empire, BW hating Republic, PvP happening on PvP servers, PvP not happening on PvP servers, etc.

 

: )

[bangkokbetty]

I've come to the conclusion that "East and West" is like the metric system of measurement. It's objectively better in every conceivable way than the alternative, but some people refuse to use it because they're too stubborn to change.

 

You've hit the nail on the head without even realizing it. Next time you go to the supermarket (assuming its in the United States), ask for 2 kg of ground beef and see how far that gets you. And the next time you watch a football game, constantly refer to the red zone as the 18.288 meter zone and ask yourself who's too stubborn to change.

[BlastingGravy]

You've hit the nail on the head without even realizing it. Next time you go to the supermarket (assuming its in the United States), ask for 2 kg of ground beef and see how far that gets you. And the next time you watch a football game, constantly refer to the red zone as the 18.288 meter zone and ask yourself who's too stubborn to change.

 

Um, Americans? I'm not sure what your point is here. Americans are in the minority in this respect, which is what my point was in the first place. Even TOR uses metric, and it was developed in the U.S.