Leovinus Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 So TOR hasn't gotten the #1. That's okay, because they weren't trying to topple WoW from that spot, because they knew that WoW's success was a fluke, a unique set of circumstances that will never happen again. The only people that ever claimed SWTOR would be some kind of messianic WoW killer were a tiny handful of rabid fanboys, but haters of the game (likely folks who are diehard WoW fanboys themselves) keep bringing it up as it it were some widespread thought in the general MMO community that anybody actually thought TOR would take king of the hill. Now, SWTOR isn't flawless, by any stretch of the imagination. But I think it would be in a much better position overall if the hordes that jumped in from WoW, who had no reasonable expectations of how a game in its first year or so of release will be, hadn't made unreasonable demands, probably fracturing development focus and causing things like the extreme dilution of the playerbase in early release due to impatience for queues. Doing some research, having some patience, and recognition of what goes into content and feature development would have helped immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalCase Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Pandas and Pokemon combat. Just saying... I think it's funny that everyone brings this point up about the new WoW Expansion, and yet, they were in Warcraft lore a long time ago, and at point the player base had asked for them. Now that they finally have them, they're ripping it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Any MMO that tries to "Conquer WoW" is doomed to die a swift death, in my opinion. MMO companies need to stop trying to beat WoW and simply make their own MMO the best it can be. I agree, and it is starting to look like the wow gaming model is getting old among players, wow is now a slowly sinking ship it's self, no other game will kill wow, time will kill wow, then it goes f2p. But yes op, I have been playng games and video games for a very long time and have seen several market changes, and not always good, one big change is the decay of gaming communities, which is really sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Because it's not 2004 and market with MMOs is COMPLETELY different. Oh look, someone gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The only game that can sink WoW is Wow. They're going to have to pretty much screw WoW up enough that a lot of people drop it for it to stop being #1. I don't see that happening. And BW would be dumb to pour their energy into that anyway. There's plenty of money to be made being the #2 game in the world. Besides, the only people who *really* care about "taking down WoW" and fan zealots who link their personal sense of self worth to the popularity of what they like. That's a silly way to think and we're all better off ignoring such people. This needs to be repeated 100 times, I agree 100%. WoW has the mainstream appeal, it's referenced in pop culture and the current mindset is that it is still the "it" game. I am willing to bet there is a large percentage of the population that just log into that game everyday hanging out in Org or SW doing nothing just so they can get some sense of self worth by playing the "it" game. Play what is fun to you, for me that is SWTOR. For all the crap they get from the pvpers, it to me is the funnest mmo pvp experience out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 i think it's funny that everyone brings this point up about the new wow expansion, and yet, they were in warcraft lore a long time ago, and at point the player base had asked for them. Now that they finally have them, they're ripping it apart. welcome to the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalCase Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 welcome to the internet. Indeed. Sad, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRN_Hawk Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I like SWTOR because it uses the common fighting style and MMO elements and made it all feel better. While i think a mix of Xvt / XWA and Jedi Knight with MMO elements would be much cooler, there would still be a lot of people who wouldn't like it that way either, even tho I can tell killing a rancor and doing player made story maps are a lot of fun. Some people will always complain or whine, I could wait more than a year for new content if this game was running smooth and with less bugs, but some always want more and more faster and faster while big Publishers want to make more money fast, this won't ever work out anyway. For me, SWTOR is number one, but there is so much more needed to make it actually Star Wars besides the Class quest and story you can barely read through because you have to fight some uber Boss with a group. When I was playing Xwing Alliance and boarded a space station, you couldn't walk into it and hang around there, that's what a Star Wars MMO should be able to deliver. Anyone remember Privateer? That sort of thing. But I'm striving off topic, just saying my nr. 1 reason why SWTOR ain't THE top MMO on the market is because there is so so so so much Star Wars athmosphere missing, I'm missing the feeling I get when I read the first few lines of a Star Wars book. It's all out there for EA and Bioware to grab it and make SWTOR even better as it already is, they just have to do it instead of firing people of a community team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Indeed. Sad, isn't it? So much so that im to the point of just wishing for an EMP blast over the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I think the real answer here isn't the game at all.. I think the gaming community in general haven't been exactly fair to this game.. It has always been compared to WOW.. Which is fine.. But people compare it to WOW today.. Release + 3 expansions and of course 8 years or so.. Which isn't fair.. Not many folks remember WOW at release.. Not nearly as good as this one.. It is absolutely fair. When you buy a new model of car, do you expect it to have most of the features as a comparable model already found on the market? I do. Imagine the salesman using the excuse of its a brand new model as to why it doesn't have power windows. It's no different in the realm of gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 It is absolutely fair. When you buy a new model of car, do you expect it to have most of the features as a comparable model already found on the market? I do. Imagine the salesman using the excuse of its a brand new model as to why it doesn't have power windows. It's no different in the realm of gaming. Sorta this... can we expect new MMO's (SWTOR included) to have 8 years and 3 expacs worth of content? NO SHOULD be expect new MMO's (SWTOR included) to have the basic features brought in by the evolution of the MMO? YES. SWTOR shipped with the most bare-bones and basic things it could... the "WoW didn't have blahblahblah at launch either" argument is invalid, and stupid. I don't think anyone is expecting SWTOR to have the amount of content WoW has (thought it should have more than it does) but we SHOULD expect it to come with the basic functionality..like server x-fers...LFG tool...etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalCase Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Sorta this... can we expect new MMO's (SWTOR included) to have 8 years and 3 expacs worth of content? NO SHOULD be expect new MMO's (SWTOR included) to have the basic features brought in by the evolution of the MMO? YES. SWTOR shipped with the most bare-bones and basic things it could... the "WoW didn't have blahblahblah at launch either" argument is invalid, and stupid. I don't think anyone is expecting SWTOR to have the amount of content WoW has (thought it should have more than it does) but we SHOULD expect it to come with the basic functionality..like server x-fers...LFG tool...etc etc etc. Not all MMOs might need these however. The point of a non-server xfer LFG tool is stupid and pointless, and is the same thing as you posting in chat. If you're too lazy to actually make the attempt to look for a group, then you shouldn't be playing. Yeah, before the server transfers it would have been nice, but they are trying to make so a xfer LFG tool isn't needed period. Do I foresee them eventually adding one in? Certainly. But who made the call that a xfer LFG tool and all these other things had to be standard in an MMO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) The only game that can sink WoW is Wow. They're going to have to pretty much screw WoW up enough that a lot of people drop it for it to stop being #1. I don't see that happening. For me that is happening. I am not playing Farmvill & Poki'mon in my MMO. Kung-fu Pandas is on the list but I can still deal with that. SWTOR is still the only one ruffling the feathers over at WOW.. Some people aren't to fond of change.. Not to mention there are probably some loyalty issues.. For whatever reason.. There is bound to be some peeps that don't want to see this game succeed. OMG so F'n true. I watch how some people go out of their way to paint the game in a bad light yet people play for 5+hrs straight. You don't play a bad game or one you hate for 5hrs or more straight. A new MMO shouldn't be trying to compete with WoW; it should be trying to compete with Facebook, making people want to sit mindlessly in front of the computer without having to provide them with any tangible content or entertainment beyond what they create for themselves in dealing with their friends. I agree with you here. The biggest thing I think this game is lacking is more minigames. Toss in to add to the rail space shooter some pazzak and swoop races and you got yourself a winner. Edited June 20, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) As you're comparing it to WoW: maybe differences in the number of years on the market & subscribers in tow ... say 7 and 8½ million respectively? Some "lesser" big budget movies can be endlessly more entertaining than blockbusters with $gazzillions in box office receipts. Think 5th Element. Edited June 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) What an odd topic, anyone with a few braincells knows the reasons why no mmo can really grab no 1 spot from wow is invested years plus china/korea markets. if we were to strip the numbers that wow generates from those markets and we just classed the markets from the EU and US like all the other mmos have it would be no where near there 10 mil numbers, not even close. Its just a case that wow has been able to dominate in both markets where as normaly mmos dominiate in one or the other. And this is no shun on other mmos that only do well there or here its just a case of how people pay to play in the different markets and also what games they allow in those markets. Will the changes in the south korean laws effect anything who knows but its a case that govenrments in those markets are becoming more hostile to gaming in general. Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 As you're comparing it to WoW: maybe differences in the number of years on the market & subscribers in tow ... say 7 and 8½ million respectively? Toyota and honda sells more cars than Ford in USA even though Ford has been in the US market far longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Toyota and honda sells more cars than Ford in USA even though Ford has been in the US market far longer.Even though Honda didn't license in the U.S. until 1963 (Toyota in 1966), they still had 2 generations to penetrate the market. Toyota's been making cars since the 1930s so they've had plenty of time to polish their product as well. Being new to the U.S. (if 40 years can be considered new) doesn't make them new to the genre - only the demographic. Edited June 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironcleaver Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 No game will topple WoW for a few easy reasons but to talk about one of the biggest reasons.... For a ton of people WoW was their first mmo and we all know "first" mmos are very difficult to leave or leave for any length of time. There are many reasons for this alone from comfort level, nostalgia, past investment in characters, online friends, ect... There will be people on those servers till the day their shut down. Steping back from WoW and looking at everquest (1), people are still playing that game even with the severely dated graphics. Even after the NGE hit SWG, people still played till the day the servers went down last December. WoW just has the biggest bubble of these people becasue it had the largest influx of new players over the years. There was also a dryspell of new mmos between 2004 and 2008 which helped solitify those new players. Aiming to topple WoW is a futile goal for the above alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 the one achille`s heel that WoW has,the time period it takes place in,if people ever get tired of it,it will have problems Part of the reason I left WoW is because I'm sick of medieval MMO's and if I see one more I'm going to puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironcleaver Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Toyota and honda sells more cars than Ford in USA even though Ford has been in the US market far longer. Not sure if it still holds true... but i was watching a car show a few years back and a "high up" in Toyota stated that they sell 25% of their production line in the united states but 75% of their total profit also came form the united states... dosen't sound quite fair to me. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casshern Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 it fails to get to no.1 because its **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Toyota and honda sells more cars than Ford in USA even though Ford has been in the US market far longer. This is a hard one to answer straight forward because its so mired from all angles its insane but ill try on some small points. In the late 60#s early 70's toyota and honda spent a fortune on designing the perfect manufacturing plants and manufacturing technologys, if i remember right they actualy hand picked/head hunted the best in the world from all the top companys todo this. As a result toyota and honda could make cars for less, more reliable (And the key is reliable), build them faster and sell them cheaper, added to this toyota is lexus which they did on purpose to distance there luxury brand cars from there cheap but reliable cars. Now flip this around and look at the other side, and the same thing happened in the uk is that car plants went along the old rules, tons of union action and stopping shop. They basically crippled themselves. Now they are turning it around but you have to look who owns the car brands, they are basically in the big 4-5 main companys amongst whom are general motors, toyota honda etc. So we can take no corolation between car sales and mmo sales, different beasts. The fact wow could penetrate china/asia is because blizzard dont run it there, blizzard get revenue from the company that runs it there and the company there doesnt follow the same rules of how you pay to play. Edited June 20, 2012 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidrowbro Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) The only fault I find with SWTOR is that the game is too easy. Sound issues? None. Linear paths? There are some but after questing on balmorra last night with a friend I couldn't believe how open that planet was. One thing that people need to remember is that some players have been playing WoW since launch and have a hard time letting go for all the time they invested in it. Mind you the time invested was really only during vanilla and parts of BC, the rest just became a joke. Edited June 20, 2012 by Skidrowbro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I honestly dont even know what is number 1 With 75%+ of wow subs being pay for x hours a month and I dont know of alot of games that even do that you cannot even compare If I am a man in china I can purchase 5 hours of game time a month for a dollar. I am also considered a sub No game has that. so the amount of people available to play alot of other games is alot smaller for games like rift, sw etc I personally do not consider that a sub. They should release the amount of real subscribers who pay a monthly sub for the game and I think people would finally get an idea that wow is not a huge juggernaut I still think they have more subs then any game out there right now, but they are nowhere near 10million @14.99 month People really have to start using their heads There was only one thing in wow unique and that was their pvp system everything else was copied. People who disagree never played early game plain and simple It became powerful because it was easy. It was a no skill instant gradification game, well became one with BC and everything else after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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