Please fix trauma

[Apocalypse-]

The only issue with any of the healers is that Operative/Scoundrels shouldn't be able to cycle emergency medpack on themselves like they can. Make the refund-a-tactical-advantage talent not trigger when the ability is used on self, and this class is well balanced. I would say put in a 4.5s cooldown on it, but that'd negatively impact their raiding performance.

 

Mercenary healers actually need a bit of a boost. IMO, moving the 1.5s cast heal to an instant cast (already limited by cooldown) should be enough.

[Calitri]

Mercenary healers actually need a bit of a boost. IMO, moving the 1.5s cast heal to an instant cast (already limited by cooldown) should be enough.

 

Maybe i'm missing something, or there's a big diffrence in the heal selection between Commando and Mercenary. But with my current alacrity, my quick heals down to 1.2s and the big heal which crits in the 4ks is 1.7s. With the amount of burst healing already availble, I can't say I agreee. Making the 1.5 heal instant would just be overpowering, i'm hard enough to take down with the combination of fast heals and heavy armor. Also add to that I already have an instant cast heal. Unless I run into a pre made that focus fires me outside of a healfest.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Calitri

[Helig]

Honestly, if you're smart and play it mobile, you can really be a nightmare to the other team.

 

And to tangentially make this connected to the topic of healers, you can burn them down fairly well too. Or at least down their effect thanks to all the position control you can do as a Sniper (knockback, root, using something like Orbital Strike to control movement). So, I can't really buy the notion that healers are a major issue or that trauma's a problem. Particularly since it seems DPS can do a pretty good job of managing their output.

Indeed. While I'm a melee player to the bone, the Sniper is just too fun to pass up.

The only issue with any of the healers is that Operative/Scoundrels shouldn't be able to cycle emergency medpack on themselves like they can. Make the refund-a-tactical-advantage talent not trigger when the ability is used on self, and this class is well balanced. I would say put in a 4.5s cooldown on it, but that'd negatively impact their raiding performance.

 

Mercenary healers actually need a bit of a boost. IMO, moving the 1.5s cast heal to an instant cast (already limited by cooldown) should be enough.

Disagree. If you can't drop them down from 30%, then the issue is not in self-refundable EMPs. CC and burst. Especially fun and gratifying for classes with Execute mechanics.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Helig

[Gidoru]

I shouldn't need 2 DPS to kill one unsupported supposedly squishy healer. Why should I get help when they don't need it? Why? Here is why...

 

Okay... I have 2 DPS to kill one healer... What happens if that healer is supported by another healer? Well then I need 3 DPS to kill that same healer... Okay what happens when they toss a Guard up on a healer? Okay... Kill the Tank? Good luck with 2 healers on him... Get a 4th DPS? Use your own Healer to stun their healer? It won't work, it isn't fast enough.

 

Now the problem is that suddenly it stalemates. Nobody can kill anyone else. Guess what? Then DPS become useless.

 

Don't think this happens?

 

I was in a Novare Coast Warzone today... The enemy team had 5 healers on it. Good luck taking a node. Our team had 3 Healers... We weren't dying much either...

 

We didn't have enough DPS to kill anyone and neither did they.

 

Guess how it ended?

 

I topped the DPS chart... 523,000 Damage... 0 Deaths... 1... Single.... Kill.

 

Heck, I actually have a fraps video of the healer doing /dance as I wailed on him for a solid minute unable to get him below 30% HP.

 

I played a similar game of Novare except it was awith 3 healers and 3 tanks and 2 marauders. It was pretty stupid, every healer was guarded.

 

I do think something needs to change, perhaps a nerf to guard.

[AlyxDinas]

I do think something needs to change, perhaps a nerf to guard.

 

At most, I think you'd see a change to its range or a change to how taunts affect additional mitigation to a guarded target. That is to say that they retain full effect to non guarded allies but are reduced by a percentage if the ally is already guarded. But I don't think you'd see a major change to the system. Tanks in this game don't really "tank" in PvP to begin with.

[Meskel]

you shouldn't need 2 DPS characters to take down a single un-guarded un-supported healer...

 

This ^ is exactly why teams need to stack heals. A solo Dps should not be able to face roll a healer that does no damage.

 

CC and focus fire is the only way to take anyone out in multi healers out. It is not a heals are op problem. You describe a teamwork problem.

[fungihoujo]

If it helps you to know, Fungi, I've out damaged Walsh on my tank before. Was probably just a bad day for him, of course. (And really, it doesn't mean anything. But I figure if I say it, it'll ruffle his feathers. After all, Sentinels should be topping the boards, right?)

 

 

 

Honestly, if you're smart and play it mobile, you can really be a nightmare to the other team.

 

And to tangentially make this connected to the topic of healers, you can burn them down fairly well too. Or at least down their effect thanks to all the position control you can do as a Sniper (knockback, root, using something like Orbital Strike to control movement). So, I can't really buy the notion that healers are a major issue or that trauma's a problem. Particularly since it seems DPS can do a pretty good job of managing their output.

 

I like how he made a thread where he told people not to complain about things without factual proof. Now he is making threads where he complains about a role without factual proof- and of course he still has failed to admit he was wrong about the way trauma works- actually, rather than admitting it, he's still insisting he's correct- that you heal at 120%.

 

It's like this every thread with him too- presenting lies, people point out he's wrong, he insists he's right due to anecdotes that don't answer the factual evidence- and then he calls people biased for pointing out facts that go against his bogus claims that he made up to support his 'clearly' unbiased defense of marauders and equally unbiased attacks on other roles and classes that he doesn't play.

 

The thing I don't get is- he's eloquent and able to put together well crafted sentences, and opinions and 'facts' that sound to be rather knowledgeable (until you actually look at the real facts anyway). Yet, he's wrong almost every time. It's almost fascinating how consistently incorrect he can be.

 

So, prof- still going to insist that I heal 120% with WH gear? That when I heal normally for say, 6k, with expertise in pvp combat I'll heal 20% more- so about 7.2k or so? You aren't fooling anyone- well, anyone who plays a healer or actually has some knowledge on the other roles.

 

Hint- maybe if you did a bit of research into how the game mechanics actually work- not how they work in your head in some alternate reality- and if you actually looked at what other classes actually do- not what they do in your anecdotes and feelings; you might actually be able to kill other classes.

 

I know though- researching your enemy, how could that possibly help?

[fungihoujo]

This ^ is exactly why teams need to stack heals. A solo Dps should not be able to face roll a healer that does no damage.

 

CC and focus fire is the only way to take anyone out in multi healers out. It is not a heals are op problem. You describe a teamwork problem.

 

You forget- Walsh plays a sentinel. He is used to having his own defences, not needing a healer or tank or other DPS to help him. To him- he's a DPS class, not a CC class- so CC isn't a part of killing healers in his opinion. I mean, he plays a spec with 3 roots and still thinks a sentinel can at max have one root in only one spec.

 

I think he has a lot to learn about the game before teamwork becomes his biggest issue.

[LarryRow]

Personally I think healers should be powerful, just so it isn't impossible to find one for PvE.

 

Same for tanks (hint hint Bioware, re-examine tank changes in 1.3! ahem).

 

Only thing that sucks is when the other team has like 3 healers and you don't have any. Ouch.

[Retro_Chrome]

as a DPS class i believe healers are actually underpowered, when i as a single dps cn burst down a healer fairly quickly how are they supposed to heal another person through my damage. i believe that the healing bonus from expertise should EQUAL the Damage bonus. this will still be an issue after 1.3 since i stopped using relics and adrenals to get used to the idea before the patch, i still am able to burst down a healer without help, unless they are really really good. then i really only need help in locking them down when my 2 short duration stuns are on cool down.

 

as for the solution to the original posters problem, cap first cap faster and cap often, if no one is dying then everyone should be capping. like others have said above me stacking more than 2.5 healers is dumb if a competitive scenario, in your situation you got out played.

 

Also send those healers my way unless i bring guildy healers there doesnt seem to be any on my server lol, send those extra ones my way and we all will be happy

[Yinata]

The problem with removing the trauma buff is you would see healers be able to reach numbers that likely aren't intended according to their metrics. For example lets just take a run of the mill 450k healing game from a healer add 30% to those numbers and from 450k you go all the way up to 595k healing just from changing that buff in the game, that would become a lot of healers average type warzone numbers if it's not an out of this world game where they reach higher. Now from that example you go to the extreme case that would cause the most QQ imo, this is the 900k game that without the buff is now a 1.17 million healing game. As you can see this de-buff is what's keeping people from qq'ing more than they already do about healers, in my oppinion w/o the buff it wouldn't be that big of a deal against good opponents so as the OP said in Rateds, you would see the removal of the buff causing not too many problems because focus fire will still win. The problem is unskilled and bad players why this buff is inplace, anyone who argues this and says it needs to be in place is just a bad player.

 

In other words without it the metrics would look bad(healers would be putting up massive numbers compared to DPS'ers every game and they would QQ how their stats weren't as awesome imo this is why the debuff exists. The other part is bad players/PUGS would likely never be able to kill a healer w/o this debuff in place. Good teams in rateds even with the debuff removed would still not have a problem killing healers quickly. In other words this is in place to protect bad players and PUGS from getting roflstomped by healers more than they do(which is a lot from what I've noticed on The Bastion since xfers). My honest opinion on the matter is that classes and teams should have to rely on skills to negate healing Sniper and Mara's for example have a 25% healing debuff, this would suffice IMO, it comes down to bad players again whining because actually using a full rotation and abilities would be too hard. 55% healing debuff when both trauma and one of those buffs is applied is too much though so something should be looked at if debuffs will not stack that if a target is already under trauma those buffs don't apply. One thing to look at is if they applied 30% debuff to PvP damage output for DPS classes once they entered combat how happy they'd be about it, and answer is they would QQ so much these forums would be overloaded and shut down by it within minutes.

 

So now trauma may not be fair or even needed on healers and their healing targets against good teams, but it's in place to save bad players and PUGS from being continually stomped on by healers match after match. Great April Fools Day joke for Bioware to pull would be to announce that the Trauma buff will now apply to DPS as well taking 30% away, all the QQ posts would make the Devs and all the healers days for sure.

[Bazzoong]

forget it Edited June 21, 2012 by Bazzoong

[BurnsTwoThree]

OP is bad at this game.

 

 

 

Learn how to play your class because most healers (except for Trooper/BH) can be trained easily.

[ErosGyne]

i play a commando, the worse healer in the game, im spec and gear as DPS and i can heal for 3.5crit in PVP normal heal 2k

the worse healer, DPS spec doing 3k, imagine medic spec and gear.

they nerf healing for a reason, but never boost dps(tweak a litle)

the problem is when PVP meets PVE and vice-versa

i dont take side, is just my 2 cent

[fungihoujo]

i play a commando, the worse healer in the game, im spec and gear as DPS and i can heal for 3.5crit in PVP normal heal 2k

the worse healer, DPS spec doing 3k, imagine medic spec and gear.

they nerf healing for a reason, but never boost dps(tweak a litle)

the problem is when PVP meets PVE and vice-versa

i dont take side, is just my 2 cent

 

Your spec and gear have very little to do with how much your top heal can do- for the most part, there's maybe 10-15% bonus healing on your main heal from the spec itself- and the gear offers little to nothing extra- for the most part you use the exact same gear for dps and healing- with perhaps some changes in accuracy and cast speed.

 

If you changes your spec to healing- you might do another 1k on a crit and 700 on a non crit, not a big deal when most good dps classes have either a few abilities that crit for 5k regularly and up to 7k with buffs, or constant, high damage (like an anni mara with dots).

 

Also, whether or not troopers are the worst healers- nobody actually talks about how much the top heal does when it comes to how good a healing class is- in fact, most of the operative heals that make them so much better do not heal all that much- they're good because they're easy to get off.

[Wozz]

you shouldn't need 2 DPS characters to take down a single un-guarded un-supported healer...

 

Why? If a healer can't keep themselves alive how do you expect them to keep 1-3 team mates alive or one teammate suffering focussed dps. Your comment leads me to believe you don't want healers to be capable of keeping one player alive except for maybe tanks thus making it impossible to turn the tide of any PVP encounter.

 

My honest view is that if you choose to take on a healer 1v1 you should expect it to be hard to kill them because, well, they are healers!! Doh! What you do is remove their ability to focus on key dps classes as they turn there attention on themselves thus turning the tide of the battle. PVP isn't about your kill count, its about winning. So maybe if you just beat upon a healer so your teammates can focus dps that annoying tank down, you have done enough to turn the tide.

 

Expecting to be able to kill a healer class 1v1 everytime is just absurd. We keep multiple teamates alive.

 

Disagreement aside I assure you it is possible to take out a healer 1v1 - you just have to think about how you use interrupts and stuns and more importantly ... when!

[Kehtal]

Yinata hit it, although I think that his numbers are a little off. 595k may be a direct 30% increase over 450k, but something you have to consider is that since the person would be doing more healing, they would live longer, and their team would live longer, which would enable them to heal even more.

 

 

Any average healer is already extremely effective in pug vs pug. Most players can't spot healers by themselves unless they're marked, the ones who do don't know what an interrupt is or does, and so they get to free cast a lot.

 

Take that average healer and increase their per cast output by 30% and they become a brick wall by themselves. Take any good, intelligent healer and put them in a premade - pugs won't stand a chance.

[Wozz]

This ^ is exactly why teams need to stack heals. A solo Dps should not be able to face roll a healer that does no damage.

 

CC and focus fire is the only way to take anyone out in multi healers out. It is not a heals are op problem. You describe a teamwork problem.

 

Well said that man! Couldn't agree more. The OP is whining about kill count and allegedly 523,000 DPS (impressive) and is only concerned about his kill count not the teamwork or outcome.

 

I realised this after reading through his supposed logic. Seems the OP has a habit of it on this forum from my observations. I shouold look before I leap anmd withdraw from my involvement simply saying the above poster is spot on!

[fungihoujo]

Yinata hit it, although I think that his numbers are a little off. 595k may be a direct 30% increase over 450k, but something you have to consider is that since the person would be doing more healing, they would live longer, and their team would live longer, which would enable them to heal even more.

 

 

Any average healer is already extremely effective in pug vs pug. Most players can't spot healers by themselves unless they're marked, the ones who do don't know what an interrupt is or does, and so they get to free cast a lot.

 

Take that average healer and increase their per cast output by 30% and they become a brick wall by themselves. Take any good, intelligent healer and put them in a premade - pugs won't stand a chance.

 

Except... the prof who made this thread thinks the trauma debuff doesn't exist already- that healers can get 120% healing in expertise gear, despite it being quite clearly closer to 85% tops.

 

Pugs don't stand a chance against premades anyway- and I'm sorry, but no, I don't think a class should be penalized to make up for the fact that most dpsers don't know how to spot and focus a healer- that's just ridiculous.

 

Why not just include a 'do this next!' list that flashes on your screen in operations? How about an 'auto interrupter!' which automatically uses your interrupt whenever someone is healing nearby? Maybe we should make healers glow in a near blinding aura with a big sign above them saying 'kill me please!', and they have a vortex that just drags dps to them and forces them to target the healer until they are dead.

 

Balancing the game on DPS that still haven't figured out how to focus healers is why this game is in shambles right now.

[Wozz]

Except... the prof who made this thread thinks the trauma debuff doesn't exist already- that healers can get 120% healing in expertise gear, despite it being quite clearly closer to 85% tops.

 

Pugs don't stand a chance against premades anyway- and I'm sorry, but no, I don't think a class should be penalized to make up for the fact that most dpsers don't know how to spot and focus a healer- that's just ridiculous.

 

Why not just include a 'do this next!' list that flashes on your screen in operations? How about an 'auto interrupter!' which automatically uses your interrupt whenever someone is healing nearby? Maybe we should make healers glow in a near blinding aura with a big sign above them saying 'kill me please!', and they have a vortex that just drags dps to them and forces them to target the healer until they are dead.

 

Balancing the game on DPS that still haven't figured out how to focus healers is why this game is in shambles right now.

 

Hahahahaha funny but probably describes the OP's ideal scenario!

[Xsorus]

If it requires 2 DPS for you to take on a single healer in this game, then you're one of those bads that I see running around in crap PvE gear.

[Kehtal]

If it requires 2 DPS for you to take on a single healer in this game, then you're one of those bads that I see running around in crap PvE gear.

 

I know what you're saying, but I've met plenty of people in full or mostly WH gear who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.

[Wozz]

I know what you're saying, but I've met plenty of people in full or mostly WH gear who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

They be healers then! ;-)

[fungihoujo]

I know what you're saying, but I've met plenty of people in full or mostly WH gear who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

Sadly- this is who the DPS is being balanced around. Which'll mean soon enough even the worst dps will be able to easily three shot people.

[Xsorus]

Sadly- this is who the DPS is being balanced around. Which'll mean soon enough even the worst dps will be able to easily three shot people.

 

Oh no doubt, I mean I've been reading these posts for a while by bads on this forum who are like "Well you just don't have any good healers on your server" which is hilarious, because its basically saying "i'm not bad, your entire servers healers are bad!!" So I get my server transferred to Fatman, and sure enough, still just taking a crap on Healers left and Right with them having little recourse.

 

Oh I want to also cover another topic, The whines I see about the 5 healer groups, I'm sure i'm not the only one who absolutely loves seeing 5 healer groups? They're such a push over, you basically take a dump on the 3 dps and then you have 5 people healing one another not able to do squat to anyone.