Claymaniac Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 You have yet to listen to a single thing, why would you start now? Yes, with a sub you get access to the content but you can still just buy things which makes it pointless to have the content. You do not get the point of a game at all. You just want to enable cheat codes. This makes zero sense to me. Can someone else please translate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I think all future MMOs should be F2P to begin with. And the P2P business models need to go. This will allow people to play multiple MMOs at the same time. I don't think I would mind a F2P model so much as long as I could still pay my monthly fee and have access to ALL content at no additional charge. Anytime some new outfit or mount came out that was available as a MT, I should be able to buy it with in-game credits if I am a monthly subscriber. Any new flashpoint, operation, planet, etc, should immediately be available to monthly subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonhawke Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 One of the issues that SWTOR is going to have that other MMOs dont suffer from is production costs. SWTOR needs a higher paying base (whether with sub or real cash purchases) than most MMOs to be profitable, since it costs them much more to turn out updates and expansions. While I do feel that the whole class story worked in making you care more about your character than any other MMO ever did, the costs and resources involved in doing all those cutscenes and dialog options took too much away from other areas. A smaller cash flow will severely limit what it can do with this model in the future. I dont know if a f2p model can support SWTOR as it currently is. If not I suspect they will have to redo future content and you will see far less cutscenes in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just when i start to think maybe bioware devs arent totaly clueless they do this. Creating a buzz about your game going f2p is just an idiot move unless you are ready to do it very soon. They are fixing this game, adding new content and getting people interested again and now they are killing all that work, how many people are now just going to wait and see if this game goes f2p before they buy it or resub? that Dev obviously has no clue about mmos and shouldnt be in a position to make stupid comments like that. But ive been looking for an excuse to go back to Rift, this game failing and going f2p would do it. *100000000 totally on the ball with this post, Thank you Mallorik:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just when i start to think maybe bioware devs arent totaly clueless they do this. Creating a buzz about your game going f2p is just an idiot move unless you are ready to do it very soon. They are fixing this game, adding new content and getting people interested again and now they are killing all that work, how many people are now just going to wait and see if this game goes f2p before they buy it or resub? that Dev obviously has no clue about mmos and shouldnt be in a position to make stupid comments like that. But ive been looking for an excuse to go back to Rift, this game failing and going f2p would do it. Well...Rift I think has a pretty cheap sub model? Is it 9.99 per month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Plus, how much is thier sub now? Still 14.99? Or did they drop it to 9.99? 14.99 + tax of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justandulas Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh I'm sure there's plenty of F2P games out there that do nothing but nickel and dime everything. But that doesn't mean that is what F2P is rigidly set in stone with no deviation. LotrO's recent free content update introduced a whole new zone, multiple instances, skirmishes etc. You pay a sub and you access all the content. Really if SWTOR simply added a F2P option on top of the sub, how would your playing experience change? If that's what it takes to keep the game going for 10 years instead of 3, why shouldn't they? It would change, it opens up the floodgates for the trolls who are too cheap to pay a sub and it negatively affects me because I will be nickel and dimed for content or my sub fee would only give me trivial things where as the F2P crowd gets everything. F2P til 15 is fine, but if SWTOR goes F2P I wash my hands of it and I've been it's most loyal fanboy and devoted player. They may gain alot of new subs but they will lose the hardcore supporters like myself. The minute swtor goes f2p, i uninstall and no longer recommend it to any of my friends. I have never had a good experience with F2P, hell I don't even play LoL because they nickel and dime you for everything. I don't support F2P MMO's and never will. I hope they don't go this route because it would be the death of my favorite MMO for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 One of the issues that SWTOR is going to have that other MMOs dont suffer from is production costs. SWTOR needs a higher paying base (whether with sub or real cash purchases) than most MMOs to be profitable, since it costs them much more to turn out updates and expansions. While I do feel that the whole class story worked in making you care more about your character than any other MMO ever did, the costs and resources involved in doing all those cutscenes and dialog options took too much away from other areas. A smaller cash flow will severely limit what it can do with this model in the future. I dont know if a f2p model can support SWTOR as it currently is. If not I suspect they will have to redo future content and you will see far less cutscenes in the game. I agree with this. I've been saying that 100% VO was a mistake since the day they announced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salaryman Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Personally, the only real competitor I see SWTOR having is WoW, so I would assume any decision for SWTOR to move to F2P would be in anticipation or mirroring WoW's move to the same. Sure there are plenty of F2P MMOs out there now, but I think the percentage of SWTOR players that has any interest in them is probably in the single digits. I could be biased though because I think BW hit a homerun with the server transfers and I'm having the most fun I've ever had playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 This makes zero sense to me. Can someone else please translate? Now I understand why I need to constantly repeat myself, you can't read. You should put it in your sig that you can't read so people can just ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discosoc Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Not at all, at most we will have f2p trial upto lvl 15, if any mmo is heading towards f2p its wow, the huge merging of its china/asia servers, its black market selling BIS items and the real money ah going into it. remember that wows biggest playerbase is in asia/china market and raiders arnt going to be happy that you will be able to buy bis and what were raid only items for real money. So as swtor is expanding into the asia market at the same time wow is declining in it very fast. SWTORS ip is strong enough to keep it subscription game for years, and look at other ea mmos like warhammer, they are still sub games so no, this will stay subs. You're confusing WoW with Diablo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I don't think I would mind a F2P model so much as long as I could still pay my monthly fee and have access to ALL content at no additional charge. Anytime some new outfit or mount came out that was available as a MT, I should be able to buy it with in-game credits if I am a monthly subscriber. Any new flashpoint, operation, planet, etc, should immediately be available to monthly subscribers. See.. monthly subs kinda indirectly forces you to play a game. Take WoW for instance. Suppose I like to PvP only and do arenas and BGs non stop. Raiding has no interest for me. Let me buy a package that allows only PvP. An F2P model will allow that level of granularity. If I like both, I pay for both. A flat subscription model kinda out right gives you all the features in the game even though you may never participate in one or more of the feature. So, let a game like WoW be F2P-- 1. If you want to PvP, u pay $5 a mo sub 2. If you want to PvE/raid, u pay $5 a month 3. For both, $10 4. For all other features another $5 MMO is a service like cable TV. So, let us choose our channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just when i start to think maybe bioware devs arent totaly clueless they do this. Creating a buzz about your game going f2p is just an idiot move unless you are ready to do it very soon. They are fixing this game, adding new content and getting people interested again and now they are killing all that work, how many people are now just going to wait and see if this game goes f2p before they buy it or resub? that Dev obviously has no clue about mmos and shouldnt be in a position to make stupid comments like that. But ive been looking for an excuse to go back to Rift, this game failing and going f2p would do it. Quoted for truth. Bioware has handled things poorly since the beginning. Now many times have we seen the forums erupt because of something Bioware has announced? I honestly don't think the suits in charge at Bioware even play games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 It would change, it opens up the floodgates for the trolls who are too cheap to pay a sub and it negatively affects me because I will be nickel and dimed for content or my sub fee would only give me trivial things where as the F2P crowd gets everything. F2P til 15 is fine, but if SWTOR goes F2P I wash my hands of it and I've been it's most loyal fanboy and devoted player. They may gain alot of new subs but they will lose the hardcore supporters like myself. The minute swtor goes f2p, i uninstall and no longer recommend it to any of my friends. I have never had a good experience with F2P, hell I don't even play LoL because they nickel and dime you for everything. I don't support F2P MMO's and never will. I hope they don't go this route because it would be the death of my favorite MMO for me I would have to follow the ways of Justandulas if Swtor does decide to go down a very dark path of no return(f2p without the lvl 15cap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 its black market selling BIS items and the real money ah going into it i thought the real money ah was just in diablo 3 not wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymaniac Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 It would change, it opens up the floodgates for the trolls who are too cheap to pay a sub and it negatively affects me because I will be nickel and dimed for content or my sub fee would only give me trivial things where as the F2P crowd gets everything. F2P til 15 is fine, but if SWTOR goes F2P I wash my hands of it and I've been it's most loyal fanboy and devoted player. They may gain alot of new subs but they will lose the hardcore supporters like myself. The minute swtor goes f2p, i uninstall and no longer recommend it to any of my friends. I have never had a good experience with F2P, hell I don't even play LoL because they nickel and dime you for everything. I don't support F2P MMO's and never will. I hope they don't go this route because it would be the death of my favorite MMO for me Well that's too bad. I mean "loyal and hardcore supporter" really doesn't mean much. Your money is worth the same as anyone else's money. So, if they lose you and gain 2 more customers that's what they will do. And while I'm just using a crystal ball, I am fairly confident that your last statement should say "death of MMO's to me" not just this MMO. F2P is the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 You're confusing WoW with Diablo 3 lol thank you Discosoc I was like "omg WoW be doing the D3 ah now or sometime soon, needs to get back to wow and slang all the crap pilled up in the bags." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Personally, the only real competitor I see SWTOR having is WoW, so I would assume any decision for SWTOR to move to F2P would be in anticipation or mirroring WoW's move to the same. Sure there are plenty of F2P MMOs out there now, but I think the percentage of SWTOR players that has any interest in them is probably in the single digits. I could be biased though because I think BW hit a homerun with the server transfers and I'm having the most fun I've ever had playing the game. Lusinchi is talking about existing and upcoming F2P games that are good, which wouldn't include WoW, which is very much not free. My guess is he's thinking more about GW2 (rumored to be out around Thanksgiving) and Diablo 3 (not technically an MMO but look what D3's launch did to server numbers), on top of MoP of course. Edited June 15, 2012 by jgelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymaniac Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Now I understand why I need to constantly repeat myself, you can't read. You should put it in your sig that you can't read so people can just ignore you. Haha, ok buddy. Guess we are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHazanko Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Lusinchi is talking about existing and upcoming F2P games that are good, which wouldn't include WoW, which is very much not free. My guess is he's thinking more about GW2 (rumored to be out around Thanksgiving) and Diablo 3 (not technically an MMO but look what D3's launch did to server numbers), on top of MoP of course. Well gw2 looks like crap to me and many friends, so none will be heading there once tor goes or if it goes f2p, D3 is just boring as hell, its the ssdd and why bother continuing on with that. :confused The MoP expan isn't free or f2p, wow is only f2p up to lvl 20 and they don't plan on going f2p anytime soon for higher lvls or for their newer content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruLanka Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Not going to be happy if this great game go F2P, F2P mean constant grinding and spending lot more than having to pay for a subscription and all extra contents gonna be all focused on getting more people to buy the content . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undraxis Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) You have yet to listen to a single thing, why would you start now? Yes, with a sub you get access to the content but you can still just buy things which makes it pointless to have the content. You do not get the point of a game at all. You just want to enable cheat codes. @claymaniac From what I'm understanding of this specific line, in short, he means pay to win. All the dungeons you add wont matter if you can just buy the uber items you can which is true for DDO specifically (not sure on LOTRO since i havent played that one). Tho I pretty much agree with claymaniac in the availability of options, Jandi is truthful about F2P changing the dynamics of current MMOs that went F2P. The only true free to play model that didnt really change the gameplay at all would be the current Team Fortress model (even tho its an FPS). EDIT: On a personal level, I love free to play MMOs myself. I tend to enjoy the journey to the end game rather than the endgame itself. I hate raiding so top level content is useless to me. I like jumping from game to game to keep things fresh. Not paying a sub removes the pressure to play the same game all month to take full advantage of the money spent. Edited June 15, 2012 by Undraxis additional statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justandulas Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well that's too bad. I mean "loyal and hardcore supporter" really doesn't mean much. Your money is worth the same as anyone else's money. So, if they lose you and gain 2 more customers that's what they will do. And while I'm just using a crystal ball, I am fairly confident that your last statement should say "death of MMO's to me" not just this MMO. F2P is the future. Short term their money is as good as mine. But the F2P crowd is fickle and will leave for the next major F2P game/MMO. Short term those "2 gained customers" may be just as valuable as mine, but long term they would have my money for years. If they go F2P though, that is the end of this fanboys experience with SWTOR. I do not like or support F2P MMO's and if SWTOR goes that route, I wash my hands of it forever. They will never get my money back. F2P is equivalent to them selling out IMHO. And if F2P is the future, lets see what the elder scrolls MMO has. I bet anything it has a sub fee. The future isn't with F2P, it's just some propaganda the F2P crowd tries to push down developers throats. It's a short term solution. Look at all the MMO's that went f2p with an option of a sub, they have a bounce back in population for a short term but now they are worse off then they were before hand because they lost their hardcore supporters and the F2P crowd never sticks with an MMO long term, they only want the next cheap thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundli Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 But ive been looking for an excuse to go back to Rift, this game failing and going f2p would do it. I keep seeing this.. a shame that Rift is way worse off then this game is atm though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vemtaz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) For all of you QQ'ing about F2P, and promising to unsub, seriously, without knowing how they are going to implement it, what is your problem with it? There is a false stigma about the F2P model that F2P = Bad. It's not true. It's the way of the future. The $15 monthly subscription model is a dinosaur. It won't work any more. There are too many multiplayer online games and services to compete with to ask your players to dedicate themselves to a monthly subscriptions. As it is, $15 a month isn't all that much when compared to say.. the cost of going to a movie. But when you start adding up multiple subscriptions.. still paying for WoW? Xbox Live? Add a couple more and they can really add up. Having a F2P model allows players to remain active, and pay based on how active and interested they are. Need more character slots? $10... Need more bank space? $5. Many games have proven this can be successful. As others have mentioned.. DDO, and LotRO have done it with some success. SoE just transitioned some of their games as well. More will follow. Get used to it. If you are going to refuse to play a game, regardless of how good (or bad) it is based on it being F2P, you are probably going to miss a lot of cool stuff... NinjaEdit: Just because there are bad games that are F2P, it doesn't mean that all F2P games are bad. Edited June 15, 2012 by Vemtaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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