"play to win" VS " play for medals"

[Kumakichi]

You can get more than 8 medals in a match, but you will get the same amount of commendations as if you got 8 medals. At least that is what I have been told. If that is the case you should be able to try to win and still get as many medals as you need to get max commendations.

 

Yes your right. Commendations are the same. Medals are for epeening and also to influence MVP voting. Some people vote for most medals figuring that person completed the most objectives in that WZ. And MVP gives you a little bonus.

[Astarica]

Do people realize the difference between winning and losing is probably 40 commendation which is the same as having 8 medals?

 

MVP gets you one more commendation. It's hardly a reason to risk losing the game by trying to get another MVP vote.

 

Generally speaking the guy taking the risk or sacrificing himself is unlikely to get medals because you never get medals while dying. It's not a problem if you win, and if you still lose, either you were just outplayed that time, or you need to reevaluate that maybe all your deaths really were just pointless deaths and possibly hurting your team.

[mikedee]

Hence a more effective grouping system shortly, which can eliminate these types, if you so choose to.

 

This is the answer. With 8 man q's pugs can be pugs and premades can be premades. Until then you have to deal with noobs.

[Dein_Cathair]

This is the answer. With 8 man q's pugs can be pugs and premades can be premades. Until then you have to deal with noobs.

 

I still think removing the medal acquisition display (and the text msgs also need to go for defending/etc.)during the match is good, but also have had a couple thoughts about premades.

 

If they want to do it right, they should average out the medals/ comms for all team members at the end.

I play all 4 classes, but not all 8 advanced classes. I can tell you it's much easier to gain medals with certain classes than others and it's not a lack of talent in one vs the other. I can easily get top billing with certain classes and others, it's much harder. One real obvious difference is between guardians and sentinels. Sentinels are probably the hardest class to get them with, while a guardian who stays alive much longer and does much less can get many more. It's about the survivabily factor of the guardian that allows them to out medal a sentinel and guarding other players.

 

So if they want to do ranked games right and eliminate farming and imbalances, averaging the medals/comms out at the end out probably be the best way imo (at this time). If it's a supposed picked group, you don't need to worry about people fluffing off. The whole epeen thing needs to go if they want real pvp based on trying to win rather than ranking people individually in these ranked games.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[Arkerus]

When a team is mathematically/statistcally out of it, they might as well play for medals.

[Revelationjp]

It's easy to blame game design for issues like this, because that would mean it can be fixed, and everyone wants to see their pet issue fixed. But the awful truth is that it's not the game design that causes it. It's the idiot people who think that they're being smart and gaming the system when they're actually making it harder on themselves. They're not going to listen to anything anyone has to say, because they're smarter, better, and more awesome than anyone else.There's nothing that can be done about such people, and we'll always have to live with them, whether it's in a game or in real life.

 

The best thing we can do is to ignore those idiots, and their e-peen, don't get into arguments with them, and don't reward them with MVP votes. Too often I see the entire team vote and leave the op before I've finished looking at the data, only to find the majority of votes given to the guy with the most medals, even though he had no objective points. That just shows that people auto-vote for the green bar at the top of the list and exit, without actually paying attention to what's going on. Sure, we know that MVP votes don't matter in any real sense, but they're an intangible reward that says "good job", and it's demoralizing to those that try hard to see those votes go to medal farmers, and strokes the egos of those same farmers to receive them.

 

Some of the blame lies squarely on our own shoulders, and pretending that it's all a design flaw will never solve the problem.

[Dein_Cathair]

When a team is mathematically/statistcally out of it, they might as well play for medals.

 

I see this all the time, a group of pugs gets 2 capped in civil war and you start seeing people gather at west or w/e node your group has. Why are they there? to gain defense points. It's pathetic. Other people in the match are still trying/fighting and a bunch of people have just given up. And it makes it even worse as those still trying are really overwhelmed by superior forces. Why promote this behavior by displaying text msgs and giving little medal displays over their heads while the others are still trying and dying and geting zero? The current design "teaches people to farm" rather than play to win.

 

My example for today was this morning in Novare Coast. I was in a pug that was over classed by another team, Not a big deal to me, I don't give up. But I tend to pay attention to what is going on and who is around and who is not,

Well, I noticed one shadow tank was missing most of the match and when the scoreboard came up the shadow tank had 8 medals, while everyone else on the team had 1-3. How do you think he got all 8? It sure as heck was not by fighting with us or at any node beyond the initial start of the game..... And guess what? the guy gets 2 mvp votes from the clueless other people in our pug.

 

As more and more people play they will learn the tricks people use to game the system, why teach and promote such behavior?

 

If the medal acquisition display/ text msgs were removed it would encourage people to not just sit there at a node and collect their 3 medals or more while others continued to play. This part is not needed for the ranked system you can leave the displays up.

 

Furthermore, if in ranked WZ's the totals were averaged for medals and comms per side and possibly halve the losing teams as suggested earlier in the thread, it would promote "team play" rather than the individualistic attitudes you see all the time, which in many cases are not understood by the noobs.

 

Edit: these last 2 paragraphs fix a ton of what is wrong with pvp in this game

Edited June 13, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[funkiestj]

If the medal acquisition display/ text msgs were removed it would encourage people to not just sit there at a node and collect their 3 medals or more while others continued to play. This part is not needed for the ranked system you can leave the displays up.

 

Furthermore, if in ranked WZ's the totals were averaged for medals and comms per side and possibly halve the losing teams as suggested earlier in the thread, it would promote "team play" rather than the individualistic attitudes you see all the time, which in many cases are not understood by the noobs.

 

Edit: these last 2 paragraphs fix a ton of what is wrong with pvp in this game

 

The problem is that weak players lose too many matches which makes them hungry for gear.

 

If your a 1600 rated chess player, you don't lose 90% of your matches because you get paired at tournaments with other similarly skilled players. In WZ, on the other hand, you not only routinely get paired against much stronger teams (skill wise) you get paired against enemies that are both more skilled at play and better geared.

 

While getting to BM gear and later WH gear won't make you a more skilled player, it will increase your win rate.

 

It is OK to have unskilled (in PvP) players in columi gear in WZ if they are playing against comparable opponents. I.e. the problem isn't that your PUG teammate is horribly unskilled and undergeared but that his mirror on the opposing team is skilled and well geared.

 

Sure, a close match with skilled teammates and opponents is more fun that a close match with unskilled teammates and opponents but a blowout domination is never as fun as a close match.

 

Presumably when BW implements cross server queuing (they say this is on the roadmap) then the player population will be big enough that they can implement PUG match scheduling that trys to create more frequent competitive contests and fewer facerolls.

[Jarfunkz]

Hello,

 

I wanted to make this post because I'm so tired of seeing people playing for medals rather than to play to win. It's kinda annoying.

 

There are so many examples of people playing for medals rather than playing to win and it just causes matches to be lost.

 

I'll give my two most recent examples I've seen that are really annoying.

 

1. a guardian in civil war runs west and caps andthen automatically takes off for mid, leaving nobody west.

2. in Huttball a gunslinger is ontop of the structure overlooking mid, someone passes him the ball, rather than even trying to find someone to pas it to, he throws it to an opposing player instantly ( right after receiving it) and then starts shooting the opposing player. He had people open but did not even try. His goal was to get points.

 

Hey I could do this too, but I'd rather try and win matches.

 

My suggestion is to remove all the little medal proc disp[lays and just total them up at the end. What the current system promotes is for people to farm medals, which is a poor pvp design.

 

I guess if BW does not listen I can just stand there and hit noble sac and heal myself for 500k healing while standing behind a node for the duration of a match and laugh at the people who complain. Which is the current reverse of what I do.

 

Play to win is much better than play for medals.

 

You forgot the players who play for only four medals... I have ran into them.

[SteffizleESQ]

I see this all the time, a group of pugs gets 2 capped in civil war and you start seeing people gather at west or w/e node your group has. Why are they there? to gain defense points. It's pathetic. Other people in the match are still trying/fighting and a bunch of people have just given up. And it makes it even worse as those still trying are really overwhelmed by superior forces. Why promote this behavior by displaying text msgs and giving little medal displays over their heads while the others are still trying and dying and geting zero? The current design "teaches people to farm" rather than play to win.

 

My example for today was this morning in Novare Coast. I was in a pug that was over classed by another team, Not a big deal to me, I don't give up. But I tend to pay attention to what is going on and who is around and who is not,

Well, I noticed one shadow tank was missing most of the match and when the scoreboard came up the shadow tank had 8 medals, while everyone else on the team had 1-3. How do you think he got all 8? It sure as heck was not by fighting with us or at any node beyond the initial start of the game..... And guess what? the guy gets 2 mvp votes from the clueless other people in our pug.

 

As more and more people play they will learn the tricks people use to game the system, why teach and promote such behavior?

 

If the medal acquisition display/ text msgs were removed it would encourage people to not just sit there at a node and collect their 3 medals or more while others continued to play. This part is not needed for the ranked system you can leave the displays up.

 

Furthermore, if in ranked WZ's the totals were averaged for medals and comms per side and possibly halve the losing teams as suggested earlier in the thread, it would promote "team play" rather than the individualistic attitudes you see all the time, which in many cases are not understood by the noobs.

 

Edit: these last 2 paragraphs fix a ton of what is wrong with pvp in this game

 

I don't really understand your logic for why removing the display would help. If anything, you should be able to view thescoreboard throughout the entire match so you can see how you're doing like in fps games.

[Dein_Cathair]

I don't really understand your logic for why removing the display would help. If anything, you should be able to view thescoreboard throughout the entire match so you can see how you're doing like in fps games.

 

It's pretty simple, it's like many others have said in the thread, play to win and you will get medals, you don't need to see any displays whatsoever. By showing the display and associated text messages, you are teaching people to farm medals, which is not the point of pvp. Pvp warzones are meant to be won or lost. I prefer the first ( win) or at least try to win If you design something for another purpose, ppeople will take advantage of that " other purpose" and forget the real purpose ( to fight and try and win).

 

I know they have good intentions, but frankly it's not the best design and does "teach" players to do other things which are not helpful.

 

Edit: another way to describe it would be to use the candy bar analogy.

 

You give people a goal ( to fight and win), but you also give them the chance to stop and do things to just get candy bars. Many people will take the bait and try and get candy bars instead of trying to fight and win in the proper way. And at the end it's look how many candy bars I've gotten for many.... So, if you remove all the visible candy bars, people will tend to try and do the things that are neded to win rather than sit around and collect candybars.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[Harcagnel]

I would add an other option:

 

Play to have fun > Play to Win > Play for medals ( this also includes ranking up or rewards of any kind )

 

( I want an infection map! and the ability to filter what PVP maps I play )

Edited June 14, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Dein_Cathair]

I would add an other option:

 

Play to have fun > Play to Win > Play for medals ( this also includes ranking up or rewards of any kind )

 

( I want an infection map! and the ability to filter what PVP maps I play )

 

Hey I guess I could try that today and just have fun by farming medals and not care whether I win or lose, BUT I suspect MANY MANY people would be unhappy with me and it would cause them to become upset, thusly ruining their fun.

 

Sorry, your logic is flawed, pvp is a group thing in regards to warzones, it takes a team effort. Not just me having fun doing my own thing.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[SteffizleESQ]

It's pretty simple, it's like many others have said in the thread, play to win and you will get medals, you don't need to see any displays whatsoever. By showing the display and associated text messages, you are teaching people to farm medals, which is not the point of pvp. Pvp warzones are meant to be won or lost. I prefer the first ( win) or at least try to win If you design something for another purpose, ppeople will take advantage of that " other purpose" and forget the real purpose ( to fight and try and win).

 

I know they have good intentions, but frankly it's not the best design and does "teach" players to do other things which are not helpful.

 

Edit: another way to describe it would be to use the candy bar analogy.

 

You give people a goal ( to fight and win), but you also give them the chance to stop and do things to just get candy bars. Many people will take the bait and try and get candy bars instead of trying to fight and win in the proper way. And at the end it's look how many candy bars I've gotten for many.... So, if you remove all the visible candy bars, people will tend to try and do the things that are neded to win rather than sit around and collect candybars.

 

I think people are just going to end up being angry when the match ends and they didn't maximize their rewards, which is worse than the situation now. Taking away the display doesn't change the fact that you still get the most rewards with 8 medals. I don't think any of the changes you are mentioning would help the cause, and they would lead to more people quitting early again which, again, is worse than the situation now. There are bigger issues to work on than this, since there is no real issue with the warzone rewards system.

 

edit: I think the only way to accomplish your goal of not having people farm medals, is to completely remove WZ rewards, which would have to mean that there was no PvP gear grind, which would make a lot more players angry.

Edited June 14, 2012 by SteffizleESQ

[Harcagnel]

Hey I guess I could try that today and just have fun by farming medals and not care whether I win or lose, BUT I suspect MANY MANY people would be unhappy with me and it would cause them to become upset, thusly ruining their fun.

 

Sorry, your logic is flawed, pvp is a group thing in regards to warzones, it takes a team effort. Not just me having fun doing my own thing.

 

Its not logic its preference....

[Dein_Cathair]

I think people are just going to end up being angry when the match ends and they didn't maximize their rewards, which is worse than the situation now. Taking away the display doesn't change the fact that you still get the most rewards with 8 medals. I don't think any of the changes you are mentioning would help the cause, and they would lead to more people quitting early again which, again, is worse than the situation now. There are bigger issues to work on than this, since there is no real issue with the warzone rewards system.

 

edit: I think the only way to accomplish your goal of not having people farm medals, is to completely remove WZ rewards, which would have to mean that there was no PvP gear grind, which would make a lot more players angry.

Heck, I'm (and many others too)are angry when the matches end right now and I don't have 3 medals on certain toons because I can't fight multiple people when a majority of people are all sitting on a node farming medals waiting for the match to end .

 

People need to play the warzones rather than try and farm medals, causing those who do play them to become angry with those who either do nothing or just try and farm medals.

 

If you think a system where it is designed to teach people to not play the warzone is good, your quite mistaken and it will only lead to more and more of these farmers and thusly a poor experience for a majority of those who actually " play the game". They all still get their medals at the end! They just need to "work" for it and hope, rather than sit on their lazy butts.

 

Yours is one of the poorest arguments.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Dein_Cathair

[Dein_Cathair]

Its not logic its preference....

 

Oh I agree it's a preference as there is no logic in your statement

[Thanatus]

Ah, now I'm mad at myself for not taking the screenshot. One awesome game of hutball my entire team had very low single digits kills (3-5), about 5-8 medals each, we all were in the bottom eight while the other team's players were all the top 8 with 20+ kills and ~10 medals and I couldn't care less because we won 6-0 and got 40 comms more than they did...

[SteffizleESQ]

Heck, I'm (and many others too)are angry when the matches end right now and I don't have 3 medals on certain toons because I can't fight multiple people when a majority of people are all sitting on a node farming medals waiting for the match to end .

 

People need to play the warzones rather than try and farm medals, causing those who do play them to become angry with those who either do nothing or just try and farm medals.

 

If you think a system where it is designed to teach people to not play the warzone is good, your quite mistaken and it will only lead to more and more of these farmers and thusly a poor experience for a majority of those who actually " play the game". They all still get their medals at the end! They just need to "work" for it and hope, rather than sit on their lazy butts.

 

Yours is one of the poorest arguments.

 

How can you not understand that removing the display would not stop people from farming? The way to stop farming is to reward everybody the same regardless of participation(which would lead to afk players), or to remove rewards completely(which would piss off a lot of people who play for the gear)

 

You keep saying that the system promotes medal farming over winning and you are wrong because you get more comms for winning than losing.

[vimm]

I play to win medals.

[RickyChavez]

I usually farm medals because we always lose. I usually start the match with 10% hp and pop my relics and my crit spell and my other crit spell and hit a 5k heal which gives me two medals. Then I heal people and throw some dots on people here and there and try and find a place where I can just sit and defend and heal myself since 90% of the time we lose anyways might as well get my 8 medals. I just have to watch 1-3 spawn waves and I know whos going to win and just go get medals. No sense in trying when I see half the team run in 1 at a time into groups of pubs to get insta-ganked and try to heal them so I can just get ganked myself. I'd rather get what crappy points I can for losing then be some "well shucks we tried our best" schmuck with no wz comms.

 

Edit:

Also since people just randomly click the mvp button like frantic monkeys instead of picking people that did the most in something mvp is broken too. Also I dont think mvp helps you anyways. Win Lose mpv stats dont help at all if I remember right. Doesnt get you gear. Doesnt lower gear required levels. Doesnt get you higher pvp rank levels to get gear. You get a big bunch of nothing. So whats the point of even bothering?

Edited June 14, 2012 by RickyChavez

[Gomuningen]

Hello,

 

I wanted to make this post because I'm so tired of seeing people playing for medals rather than to play to win. It's kinda annoying.

 

There are so many examples of people playing for medals rather than playing to win and it just causes matches to be lost.

 

I'll give my two most recent examples I've seen that are really annoying.

 

1. a guardian in civil war runs west and caps andthen automatically takes off for mid, leaving nobody west.

2. in Huttball a gunslinger is ontop of the structure overlooking mid, someone passes him the ball, rather than even trying to find someone to pas it to, he throws it to an opposing player instantly ( right after receiving it) and then starts shooting the opposing player. He had people open but did not even try. His goal was to get points.

 

Hey I could do this too, but I'd rather try and win matches.

 

My suggestion is to remove all the little medal proc disp[lays and just total them up at the end. What the current system promotes is for people to farm medals, which is a poor pvp design.

 

I guess if BW does not listen I can just stand there and hit noble sac and heal myself for 500k healing while standing behind a node for the duration of a match and laugh at the people who complain. Which is the current reverse of what I do.

 

Play to win is much better than play for medals.

 

Only time I play to win is when I want to get my weekly done. Aside from that, more medals more everything...valor, coms, credits....Why would anyone else do otherwise...Its not like we got the playoffs to look forward to.

[Namesis]

I play for the objectives nothing else. That is the point right? Along with that comes a lot of medals and valor and acclaim.

 

i dont play to win or lose but really to get better and improve and have a little fun(.I dont mind getting destroyed as long as the team is fighting for the objective of the wz.)

 

I find that a hard thing when people deathmatch and i am trying out strategies and toon builds ect and figuring out how to stop people at the goal and what not.

[RickyChavez]

yeah...everyone else got like 2 medals and a lose while I got 7 sitting healing myself on the node. I can see where dps and tank would actually profit from continuing fighting, as a healer I have to actually be alive to heal and get points and have friendlies that are alive to heal to also get points. If I spend a minute walking and sitting in spawn behind a gate and 6 seconds being alive before I get ripped to shreds, Id get no points and have wasted the past 20 minutes doing nothing.

[Namesis]

Heck, I'm (and many others too)are angry when the matches end right now and I don't have 3 medals on certain toons because I can't fight multiple people when a majority of people are all sitting on a node farming medals waiting for the match to end .

 

People need to play the warzones rather than try and farm medals, causing those who do play them to become angry with those who either do nothing or just try and farm medals.

 

If you think a system where it is designed to teach people to not play the warzone is good, your quite mistaken and it will only lead to more and more of these farmers and thusly a poor experience for a majority of those who actually " play the game". They all still get their medals at the end! They just need to "work" for it and hope, rather than sit on their lazy butts.

 

Yours is one of the poorest arguments.

 

I agree but if you are one of the idiots deathmatch rambo 1v5 stuff, or having the node capped while standing on it, ect - then:

no thank you i will leave or farm by guarding.

you have your fun, ruin my game experience and expect me to be happy i dont think so.

Selfish as that may be i play what the warzone is intended to for.