Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

I had a related incident earlier. I hope the OP got a chance to read my reply before BW cleaned up the mess:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/blue_wolf/swtorphobe.png

 

Oh, I reported that when I saw it. But I didn't see the point in dignifying it with a reply.

 

Really, unless they are making a point and trying to be polite about it, which I can politely answer or refute, I try hard to let posts like that pass with a report or, in extreme cases, a report and an ignore. The board rules are enforced for things like that – it may take time, especially over weekends, but they are addressed. Then again, when I have been tempted to reply in kind, I have had warnings, too. So fair's fair – best to report and move on.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Uluain

[Quething]

Speaking of LS/DS choices, have they ever implemented neutral alignment gear so that you don't get penalized for picking a mix of choices?

 

All gear is neutral alignment gear. There are like four exceptions in the entire game, on a single pair of vendors shared between both fleets, and none of it's particularly exceptional for the price or level. (Though the Aero is by far the best-looking speeder in the game and I don't regret grinding for it for a minute, it's much prettier than the neutral Praxon).

 

There is a severe scarcity of neutral items for your relic slot while leveling - basically it's the Matrix Cube or bust, unless there's a mid-tier PvP one (I wouldn't know, I don't PvP) - but that's not a penalty to a neutral character. Being able to equip relics is a perk for a strongly-aligned character, just like datacron stat bonuses are a perk for talented platformers. You don't need them to beat content, they're just a nice side bonus if you practice a particular playstyle.

 

Now watch me make this almost on topic: you should thus feel free to take a DS hit to romance your s/s padawan, it will not have a meaningfully negative impact on your mechanical performance in combat.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Quething

[Rayla_Felana]

Speaking of LS/DS choices, have they ever implemented neutral alignment gear so that you don't get penalized for picking a mix of choices?

 

Perhaps they are going with the canonical fact that the 'neutral' alignment is entirely against canon and lore, there is only the light and Dark sides, no two ways about it.

[Rayla_Felana]

Heya Ray! Happy to see you around. Thanks for all the support and well wishes you've sent our way!

 

Of course, it is the least I can do, glad to see you still around to, far too many of us left in those days.... sorrow fills my heart to think of it.

[natashina]

I realise you've covered the "LucasArts says it's ok" stance in your FAQ, but you may also want to add that Mr. Lucas himself supports equality and has donated to equal rights causes, as I know many people like to say "Mr. Lucas would NEVER allow it :rolleyes:"

 

Of course you've likely already considered that and rejected the idea...

 

On the subject of me filling Ms. Berryman's inbox with requests for even basic acknowledgement that this subject is still around, I've not yet had a response. I do not expect anything from Ms. Berryman or Mr. Hood regarding SGRA's, but I will pester Ms. Berryman and Mr. Hood through Ms. Berryman if I feel it might be necessary. Lord knows no one's reading this thread.

 

It's under question #8 in the updated FAQ. I made sure I added a few weeks ago(thanks Uluain!). It falls before the question of other s/s relationships in the SW EU. I just haven't had the chance to post the fully updated version.

8) Isn't George Lucas opposed to SGR?

 

 

First off, Lucas actively supports full marriage equality for same-sex couples. His position and his personal $50,000 contribution to opposing Prop. 8, the California referendum that took away the right of same-sex couples to marry, is a matter of public record. There is no reason to think George Lucas would object to same-gender romance in the Galaxy Far, Far Away.

 

Edit: If you want the fully updated version posted(since you've kicked tush and taken names Tatile,) I can either post it on here or send it to you via PM so you have the latest version to send to the community managers.

 

Edit #2: Since some like to say, "Links/Source or didn't happen," I am embedding a link that will show how much several members of Hollywood donated against Prop 8. Lucas' donation is 6th one from the top.

http://achievementgap.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/honor-roll-no-on-prop-8-donors-contributors/

 

It's all set to go in the FAQ now.

Edited October 15, 2012 by natashina

[chuixupu]

Perhaps they are going with the canonical fact that the 'neutral' alignment is entirely against canon and lore, there is only the light and Dark sides, no two ways about it.

 

Not sure if that is completely true http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

 

It's not that you can make "neutral choices" so much as you balance out the light and the dark, and therefore are "gray". Also for non-force users, I believe it is easier to be neutral.

[Uluain]

Um, can we move the Light Side / Dark Side / Neutral discussion to another thread? I know Neutral Gear has been discussed by the devs as something that they do plan to bring to the game, but it's not germane to same-gender romance.

[chuixupu]

Yeah, sorry, I get all nerdy sometimes.

 

I was reading some older articles about the anti-gay letter writing campaign that went on when they first announced SGRs. I sometimes wonder if they were just waiting for all those people to get bored and stop caring. Now that TOR isn't being thought of as such a huge deal that it was at release.

 

Though I'm sure it really has more to do with time, money, resources.

[Tatile]

I was reading some older articles about the anti-gay letter writing campaign that went on when they first announced SGRs. I sometimes wonder if they were just waiting for all those people to get bored and stop caring. Now that TOR isn't being thought of as such a huge deal that it was at release.

 

Though I'm sure it really has more to do with time, money, resources.

 

The appropriate response to that letter writing campaign would have been an official statement saying the SGRA's are coming in, there's nothing the anti-gays can do about it (wasn't it some random parish in Florida anyway?) and then to posts some screenshots of the conversations everyone was getting so worked up about and push it for an early release.

 

If anyone tries to stop you doing the right thing on account of their being a big baby, you go ahead and do the right thing, but you do it harder, better, faster and stronger.

 

Also, Natashina, I've quoted parts of your FAQ to them before, but now I do just feel like flooding their inboxes with the entire thing

[natashina]

Since we've gotten over the 2000 post mark, I'm going to be putting up the new FAQ tonight. It needs to be put up so the link is up to date.

 

Does anyone mind?

[Tatile]

Not at all. A new FAQ might get us back on track for another ten or so posts.

 

Also I annoy Bioware employees with it. I must say it's a miracle I've yet to receive a warning for being plain annoying. It is the local equivalent of the naughty step, after all.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Tatile

[jSUN]

Hi, been lurking here for a while.

 

I've just been thinking about the overall subject and when they announced that SGR would be appearing in SWTOR, they had a lot more people playing then they do now. I expect they have to pay quite a bit to writers and voice actors for this new content and I expect that it's not currently a high priority as it may not generate new income where as expanding the game in other ways will attract more people {back} to the game.

 

I am personally really looking forward to this kind of content but at the moment, I'm not holding my breath.

 

Cheers,

 

Jas

[natashina]

My next post will be the updated SGRA FAQ. It'll be the best way to address some of these questions that have been coming up.

 

We've been told that SGRs are tied to Makeb. I believe Makeb is 1.6, since that'll be right around the year anniversary of launch and still within the timeframe of "this year." If devs are letting that leak, then I can reassure you that its mostly (if not completely) finished, just waiting for implementation.

 

So no worries there. While we haven't gotten the concrete answers we'd like, people like Uluain and Tatile have been in consistent contacts with the moderators and community managers of BioWare. They have told us time and time again that SGRs are coming. Hall Hood, the leader writer for ToR(also wrote the JK and Smuggler storyline) had also told us was via Twitter that BW hasn't forgotten the LGBT playerbase. Until they prove otherwise, I'll believe BioWare's team.

Edited October 15, 2012 by natashina

[Tatile]

They have in the past said that SGRA's are still going to be implemented and Mr. Amatangelo did answer in a recent interview that he believes SGRA's will be available with Makeb, but of course the latter has not been official confirmed or denied (and I suspect Mr Amatangelo probably got a warning for breaking their stoic homophobic silence) and with the original pro-SGRA lot having left Bioware/EA for pastures new, the future does look somewhat uncertain.

 

I'll believe SGRA's are coming out when they're actually put in-game and until then I'll be reminding Bioware that they still have a reputation left to uphold.

[jSUN]

I'd just like to add that I'm happy to wait for SGR.

SWTOR is one of the best MMO's I've played so far (I'm mainly a solo player at the moment, trying to get friends to play)

 

Jas

[natashina]

Okay, so I lied a little. This is my last post before I put the updated SGRA FAQ up. I'm doing a request for any information/questions/answers that you guys want into the FAQ. It's currently 6:40am here, so I'll probably have it up in ~12-24 hrs from now. Also, if you guys have any more links you want thrown in, please toss 'em up and I'll get them embedded.

 

Please give back any polite and constructive feedback you guys can think of, even if you're uncertain if it's already in the FAQ. The name of the game is raising awareness to the Powers That Be. If this is successful, then developers and the middle-men are (hopefully) going to be reading it. I really want to make it cook.

Edited October 15, 2012 by natashina

[losdia]

Okay, I just saw something kind of neat in an article at Gameindustry International linked from the PA report.

 

Electronic Arts head of global diversity and inclusion Ginger Maseda described a similar situation at EA, saying positive comments "far outweigh" negative comments across the board. And when it comes to the shareholders, she needed no such qualifiers.

 

"There have been no questions, comments or concerns raised from our investors with regards to support for LGBT initiatives in the community or having LGBT characters in our games," Maseda said, casting a net beyond DOMA and into the company's decisions to celebrate Pride Month and allow gay player characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic. "Essentially, it's been a non-issue from an investor perspective."

 

. . . Nice to know EA is cool about this anyway.

[Tatile]

That's the sort of thing I believe should be included in the FAQ, with the note that of course SWTOR currently does not allow gay characters or characters to be gay. You are either straight or asexual.

 

Edit: In fact I think it would be prudent to contact the writer of the above article and let them know about the current state of SWTOR, as I noticed it is factually incorrect in that regard. If people stop upholding SWTOR as an example of pro-LGBT gameplay, perhaps that will move Bioware/EA to actually making it pro-LGBT, rather than merely assuming it it.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Tatile

[losdia]

That's the sort of thing I believe should be included in the FAQ, with the note that of course SWTOR currently does not allow gay characters or characters to be gay. You are either straight or asexual.

 

Well, to be totally fair that is just with NPCs. There have been issues in the past with other MMOs customer service types getting touchy about players RPing as being a gay couple.

[losdia]

Edit: In fact I think it would be prudent to contact the writer of the above article and let them know about the current state of SWTOR, as I noticed it is factually incorrect in that regard. If people stop upholding SWTOR as an example of pro-LGBT gameplay, perhaps that will move Bioware/EA to actually making it pro-LGBT, rather than merely assuming it it.

 

Ack! You went and pulled a ninja edit!

 

Personally I would be interested in knowing if anyone has ever tried getting in touch what that Ginger Maseda person. From that article it sounds like she is senior management at EA in charge of LGBT issues. A statement from her about how flakey we feel BW's community team has been about SGR would be pretty interesting.

[Tatile]

Well, to be totally fair that is just with NPCs. There have been issues in the past with other MMOs customer service types getting touchy about players RPing as being a gay couple.

 

When we're talking in the context of story - which is what most people assume when talking about SWTOR's gameplay and to the layman - this game does allow your character to be gay. I am a roleplayer, but it has little to do with what the company does in its own game. I can roleplay as xenophobic, genocidal, altruistic, selfish or whatever, but that's not connected to how the game itself is made.

 

What we have is people filling in gaps that shouldn't need to be filled. If every powerful NPC in-game was male and/or white without appropriate reason then the game would justifiably be sexist and/or racist, no matter if you can roll up a woman or non-white. The game as it stands now I consider to be homophobic/heterocentric because it does not have any examples of LGB persons or the ability to flirt with someone of the same sex.

 

What concerns me is that a company that publicly states it is pro-LGB/T and believes in equality made the decision not to have LGB content in its product.

 

Edit: Iosdia, I did a quick search on Ms. Maseda and only got two Pinterest accounts and a possible false-positive from Facebook. Neither would be appropriate avenues of contact, so I'd have to go to the EA website, but you have given me an idea.

 

This is a bit harder than I'd hoped

Here's how to contact someone at the Board, apparently.

"Ginger Maseda, EA's Global Talent Acquisition and Inclusion Leader" - so now she has a title, still no contact information though.

 

I think I'm terrible at e-stalking someone, it's hard!

 

Edit 2: So far, Googling "EA Ginger Maseda" has only yielded results relating to EA backing GaymerCon and Ms. Maseda saying that inclusion is a very important thing. I feel like failure The Google is weak in this one.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Tatile

[chuixupu]

The appropriate response to that letter writing campaign would have been an official statement saying the SGRA's are coming in, there's nothing the anti-gays can do about it (wasn't it some random parish in Florida anyway?) and then to posts some screenshots of the conversations everyone was getting so worked up about and push it for an early release.

 

They pretty much did say "they're coming, deal with it". I'm not aware of any sgr screenshots existing, unless you mean from another game, or a mock up of what they would do. The official response was the quote that I know was posted here many times before ("we do put options for same-sex relationships in our games; we don't tolerate hate speech on our forums.")

 

I think that particular group of people did give up and stop caring, or they thought they won because it's taking them so damn long to implement the feature, lol. Perhaps finally getting the feature in could generate some non-doomsday press for once.

Edited October 15, 2012 by chuixupu

[Tatile]

They pretty much did say "they're coming, deal with it". I'm not aware of any sgr screenshots existing, unless you mean from another game, or a mock up of what they would do.

 

A mock up of SGRA's in SWTOR, actually. I'd like to see those anyway, because, you know... might actually help keep this topic on track, convince people the feature is still going to be implemented, that Bioware Austin hasn't been scared off by Free2Play...

[KumoOokami]

I was mildly amused to see the one small exception to the 'no SGRs in game yet' problem. I hadn't played the game recently, so I was messing around with the Legacy settings and noted that you could make any two of your own characters married. Obviously this was easier for them to implement than actual storyline changes since it didn't require much, but I guess it just made me more reassured than I had been that they really do intend to add the new romances in the future.

[losdia]

I was mildly amused to see the one small exception to the 'no SGRs in game yet' problem. I hadn't played the game recently, so I was messing around with the Legacy settings and noted that you could make any two of your own characters married. Obviously this was easier for them to implement than actual storyline changes since it didn't require much, but I guess it just made me more reassured than I had been that they really do intend to add the new romances in the future.

 

Is that in 1.5 over on PTS? (BTW, is it just me or is 1.5 running so slow it is unplayable?) I haven't actually messed with Legacy relationships in since 1.3, but I remember that I could only set my SW and JC as sisters tragically devided by war. ;.; I felt it was very sad on a great many levels.