Dps Operatives\Scounds need more devs attention

[kif_kif]

Dear Devs/Community! )

 

Many people say Ops/Scounds were overnerfed during latest patches.

I do strongly agree with this statement. Imo, we got 2 main problems currently: DPS and Gap closer.

 

Of course, I'm not talking about buffing our DPS directly (God save me from the QQ madness that would become after this! ). Although, imho, a +10% armor penetration to Acid Blade would be really nice of you, BW.) 30% AP while some classes got up to 100%... hmm. And due to the fact that our classes have one of the lowest DPS (1200 in average) in the game this would be №1 step to resolving this issue.

 

Another thing,imo, that could resolve the DPS problem is the use of Snipe\Aimed Shot and of Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge. Reducing their CD by half - to 1.5 sec (channeled)/15 sec would be №2 step in approaching our current troubles. Also, we got 1 VERY USELESS ability - Overload shot/Charged shot - which does 1k dmg and Consumes 20% of energy. It should either be removed due to its pointlessness or redone.

 

Well, the second thing REAL concern is our "gap closer" - Cloaking screen\Disappearing Act. All we know that getting out of combat takes ages. If it's 1vs1 in WZ, it s much easier now to kill an opponent (or to die) than wait for those damn 8 secs of not doing damage (and if we take into account that everyone uses DOTs...).

 

So, let s say fights happen in WZ every 20 - 30 secs in average. We got 2 min CD on our "gap closer". So we can use it in only 1 fight out of 5. THIS IS NOT FUNNY! The class that could be the most easily kited has the longest CD on its gap closer. BW, don't you think there's some contradiction in it?

 

TL;DR

So, in general, I propose:

№1: -50% CD on 2 abilities - Snipe/Explosive probe.

№2: +10% armor penetration to Acid Blade(probably)

№3: Reduce the CD on Cloaking Screen to 30-40 secs.

These changes would improve our LOW dps both in WZ and PVE and make us more valuable for the team and guilds!

 

I don't think that these slight changes would break the game balance.

And you?

Any thoughts, suggestions, QQing and "The class is fine, leave it as it is because it's just fine" comments are appreciated.

[Dmasterr]

The only thing that concealment operatives need is to have acid blade armor penetration back at 50%.

 

That will address both the class burst and dps.. And we are supposed to be kited, because we "are" to dangerous in melee.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Dmasterr

[kif_kif]

The only thing that concealment operatives need is to have acid blade armor penetration back at 50%.

 

That will address both the class burst and dps.. And we are supposed to be kited, because we "are" to dangerous in melee.

 

I agree with that. But:

- going back to 50% AP doesn't change the fact that we got several mostly useless abilities

- Ima ok with being kited, I can live with that.) But we got to be given a better ability to resist to kiting, because we re currently the only class with a HUGE CD on a gap closer while doing the same (or less!) amount of damage.

[kif_kif]

Moreover, I think that the stupid "Taking Cover" system should be removed for Ops/Scounds. Caz it's just useless, deprives us of mobility in PVP and prevents us from using another quite good ability - Snipe/Aimed shot. I d rather stay on my feet and be able to move to direction I want to move rather than rolling to a random "cover".

[Dmasterr]

I agree with that. But:

- going back to 50% AP doesn't change the fact that we got several mostly useless abilities

- Ima ok with being kited, I can live with that.) But we got to be given a better ability to resist to kiting, because we re currently the only class with a HUGE CD on a gap closer while doing the same (or less!) amount of damage.

 

Other classes have "useless" (just because something is situational does not make it useless) abilities as well, it is not something unique to operatives

 

We have no gap closer, and we are built with that in mind. Gap closer = something to close the distance between you and target that is FASTER than normal speed walking. Stealth is NOT a gap closer.

 

Moreover, I think that the stupid "Taking Cover" system should be removed for Ops/Scounds. Caz it's just useless, deprives us of mobility in PVP and prevents us from using another quite good ability - Snipe/Aimed shot. I d rather stay on my feet and be able to move to direction I want to move rather than rolling to a random "cover".

 

If you think cover is useless, you lost the right to comment matters that concern operatives.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Dmasterr

[kif_kif]

Other classes have "useless" (just because something is situational does not make it useless) abilities as well, it is not something unique to operatives

 

We have no gap closer, and we are built with that in mind. Gap closer = something to close the distance between you and target that is FASTER than normal speed walking. Stealth is NOT a gap closer.

 

If you think cover is useless, you lost the right to comment matters that concern operatives.

 

1. Situational? What do you mean by that? In what situation would you use 3.5 sec activated ability (1 sec taking cover + 2.5 sec channeling) - I mean "Snipe" - that does 2k - 2.5 k dmg at max (usually much less)? Or Overload shot, consuming 17\100 energy BUT dealing 1 k dmg? - I m sure you would use Shiv or our DoT or smth else but not this piece of a ... ) These abilities could be used in some rare situations, but if we look at them from the general perspective they re still useless compared to our other abilities.)

 

2. Considering the fact that we get +50% speed boost after using Cloaking Screen, I think that devs MEANT it to be a GC. ) I don't know how you use Cloaking screen, but it actually allows to shorten the distance between you and the enemy, which means that it's a GC.)

 

3. Lost the right to comment?) LOLWHUT?

Tell me honestly, how, how often and what for do you use cover while playing an Ops? (except the cases when yu want to activate Explosive probe)

[Sathid]

I think the class needs alittle more sustained damage.

[Dmasterr]

1. Situational? What do you mean by that? In what situation would you use 3.5 sec activated ability (1 sec taking cover + 2.5 sec channeling) - I mean "Snipe" - that does 2k - 2.5 k dmg at max (usually much less)? Or Overload shot, consuming 17\100 energy BUT dealing 1 k dmg? - I m sure you would use Shiv or our DoT or smth else but not this piece of a ... ) These abilities could be used in some rare situations, but if we look at them from the general perspective they re still useless compared to our other abilities.)

Cover does not trigger GCD, and snipe is 1.5 sec cast. Learn YOUR class.

 

You use snipe when u can't reach your target and need to finish it off, or when you take cover so you can not be force leaped to and snipe that warriors azz off while he crawls towards you, or when you get knocked of a ramp in hutball and need to finish off /help killing a ball carrier w/e .

 

You use overload shot when assassins /shadow use force shroud making them immune to everything but weapon damage, or when your target just gets out of melee range and u need to finish it off.

2. Considering the fact that we get +50% speed boost after using Cloaking Screen, I think that devs MEANT it to be a GC. ) I don't know how you use Cloaking screen, but it actually allows to shorten the distance between you and the enemy, which means that it's a GC.)

 

3. Lost the right to comment?) LOLWHUT?

Tell me honestly, how, how often and what for do you use cover while playing an Ops? (except the cases when yu want to activate Explosive probe)

 

LoL what? i use cover all the time to prevent being charged, while healing, and kiting, using explosive probe

 

Would you ppl stop sucking and making dumb threads buff /nerf this and that if you have no clue how to pvp?

 

Try making "pls teach me how to improve" threads.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Dmasterr]

I think the class needs alittle more sustained damage.

 

Like i said restoring armor pen from acid blade back to 50%, would fix dps and mitigate incoming 1.3 changes on burst damage.

[IndoJabijin]

I think the class needs alittle more sustained damage.

 

They don't. We are a burst class. The low amount of sustained dps we do is supposed to be evened out with high amounts of burst so we still remain competitive in all forms of gameplay. The devs just netted our burst and then didn't compensate it with anything. Some of the nerds were a little too much. I agree that getting back the original acid blade which fix us to be balanced enough in pve and be good in pvp (even though competent players are good even in the state that we are now).

 

I just don't like having 3-4 skills in a rotation. On top of having increased cool downs.

[Dmasterr]

 

They don't. We are a burst class. The low amount of sustained dps we do is supposed to be evened out with high amounts of burst so we still remain competitive in all forms of gameplay. The devs just netted our burst and then didn't compensate it with anything. Some of the nerds were a little too much. I agree that getting back the original acid blade which fix us to be balanced enough in pve and be good in pvp (even though competent players are good even in the state that we are now).

 

I just don't like having 3-4 skills in a rotation. On top of having increased cool downs.

 

Yes, competent players are good even now on operatives, but the burst they do relies on stacking relic/adrenal, with them removed from pvp in 1.3 it is looking grim for our "burst".

 

That's why restoring acid blade armor pen is important.

[Sathid]

For some reason i do not believe they want us to have burst back,i made a thread prior to 1.2 while the changes were being discussed begging the BW team to not go too far in the AP,but they did,matter of fact they did the stacking and the AP reduction very fast,i mean what was it it a whole 24 hours on PTS that they had the changes and then sent them live ASAP.

 

i dunno where they are going with this class,but i did predict that they would kill the Scrapper spec and they did imo,look around,how many pure scrappers you see out there now?

[kuey]

More damage? I'd be happy with a gap closer and some more survivability rather than damage.

[Wozz]

Another Operative whine! Sheesh one nerfbat not enough!?

[Wozz]

For some reason i do not believe they want us to have burst back,i made a thread prior to 1.2 while the changes were being discussed begging the BW team to not go too far in the AP,but they did,matter of fact they did the stacking and the AP reduction very fast,i mean what was it it a whole 24 hours on PTS that they had the changes and then sent them live ASAP.

 

i dunno where they are going with this class,but i did predict that they would kill the Scrapper spec and they did imo,look around,how many pure scrappers you see out there now?

 

So true - we all re-rolled healer as the glass cannon classes wanted complete security to zerg and gank.

 

If they now nerf Operative healer expect another large downward slice in the subs - you can only kick one section of the community so many times before their loyalty wanes!

[Suirad_Kain]

Several of you are complaining about a gap closer... does no one else use "Take Cover" for this? if you learn your way around a WZ, you can use take cover to move close to your opponent. it simply takes situation awareness and learning how to use your class mechanics... but, the last time i checked, having an ability that that has no cd, keeps you from being leaped on, increases your opponent's ranged miss chance, and can get you into and out of sticky situations is kinda, well... WIN. and, last time i checked, hidden strike->backstab->take cover->explosive probe->poke-with-a-stick is most of a player's life bar...

[Zepidel]

Yes, competent players are good even now on operatives, but the burst they do relies on stacking relic/adrenal, with them removed from pvp in 1.3 it is looking grim for our "burst".

 

That's why restoring acid blade armor pen is important.

 

This, without adrenals/exp buff we are in a very rough place, and I'm not sure that the majority of the scoundrel/op community realize it. They're all too busy complaining about the largely inconsequential nerf (for scrappers at least) to combat scars.

 

As for a gap closer the only time I really feel I need one is in huttball, and i think that could be better addressed through changes to the warzone itself rather then the class.

[CJAShadow]

Adrenals I can sorta live without, if anyone could not use them then I think it would be fine.

 

Popping relics is a fundamental part of gameplay though, and I believe it should stay in all aspects. Its one of the few things I need to be situational about using. I really hope they don't change that, for any class.

 

Leaev Adrenals in as well, but I think they should wear off after each pvp match to make it so that Biochem does not have this huge monetary advantage, just a normal one. Dying and popping another adrenal is not something I would dream about in regular WZ cause of the wasteful cost. If I had Biochem I would use it even if it only lasted through 1 game.

[XyriusSES]

Like i said restoring armor pen from acid blade back to 50%, would fix dps and mitigate incoming 1.3 changes on burst damage.

 

Indeed

[Rahak]

No, devs need to stop paying any attention to it.

Maybe that way, there'll be an update where they don't get nerfed yet again.

[Zepidel]

Adrenals I can sorta live without, if anyone could not use them then I think it would be fine.

 

Popping relics is a fundamental part of gameplay though, and I believe it should stay in all aspects. Its one of the few things I need to be situational about using. I really hope they don't change that, for any class.

 

Leaev Adrenals in as well, but I think they should wear off after each pvp match to make it so that Biochem does not have this huge monetary advantage, just a normal one. Dying and popping another adrenal is not something I would dream about in regular WZ cause of the wasteful cost. If I had Biochem I would use it even if it only lasted through 1 game.

 

Adrenals =/= Stims. You're thinking of two different things, and as far as I know the stims are being left alone in 1.3.

[Coldin]

Several of you are complaining about a gap closer... does no one else use "Take Cover" for this? if you learn your way around a WZ, you can use take cover to move close to your opponent. it simply takes situation awareness and learning how to use your class mechanics... but, the last time i checked, having an ability that that has no cd, keeps you from being leaped on, increases your opponent's ranged miss chance, and can get you into and out of sticky situations is kinda, well... WIN. and, last time i checked, hidden strike->backstab->take cover->explosive probe->poke-with-a-stick is most of a player's life bar...

 

I use cover, but only to pop a sabotage charge...maybe a charged burst. Trying to use it for closing, or gaining distance on an opponent is just too difficult to accurately predict. Also, the distance you can close isn't very large, and at best you still go to a fixed location kinda close to the target.

 

If your hidden strike/backstab/probe is taking down most of their health, then I'm sorry...you're just not playing against well geared people. I can bring down a 13k health player pretty quickly too, but so can most anyone.

 

What need is a reliable distance closer we can use more often than every two minutes. And we need a way to buff up Defensive Screen so it can actually mitigate some damage instead of just being a joke.

 

Then I would be happy with the class. I guess right now I'll just look forward to the level cap increase. Maybe we'll get a nice new toy then.

[XyriusSES]

Yeah.