JidaiGeki Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The tank that gaurds me averages 300k dps per match. 300k gaurd per match. Funny thing is, he doesnt think this is to bad of a change. Those numbers are against good players aswell. Its not about tanks having big burst damage. Its about tanking a healer staying alive a long time and slowly chipping away at targets. You are not ment to do massive damage you are suppose to prevent it. He is a Vanguard with mostly WH and BM gear. If I as a healer could average 200k dps and 300k healing everyone would be up in arms to nerf us AGAIN. Sorry, but there's simply no way in hell he's averaging 300k dps if he's full tank, and 300k protection is next to impossible. The highest I've ever seen is 170k protection. People keep saying playing a tank is not about burst damage, and you're right; it's not. We're not doing crazy burst right now, so the nerf is totally unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeventhHell Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Sorry, but there's simply no way in hell he's averaging 300k dps if he's full tank, and 300k protection is next to impossible. The highest I've ever seen is 170k protection. People keep saying playing a tank is not about burst damage, and you're right; it's not. We're not doing crazy burst right now, so the nerf is totally unnecessary. I've seen 300k prot on a powertech tank, but he had a pocket healer. Edited June 8, 2012 by SeventhHell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Going to call bs on 300k protection as well, i can easily believe 300k damage, as i've done that (mostly juse aoeing at doors) But 300k protection is so bloody far above anything i've seen it's insane. I've actually guarded a healer for a good 6 Mins while an entire team of 8 people beat on us, and only had around 150k Protection at the end of the Warfront. The only reason we were even able to do that was because that team was just awful in all regards....getting 300k protection would require I don't know... just eating Dots the whole game I suppose, because at a certain tipping point, The person is just going to kill the Tank. For example, when my group ran 4 Pyro Powertech's, We've killed War Hero Geared Merc/ST Guard Bot in about 4 Seconds... The second we did it, They both just left the match, Which is usually what happened when we ran that setup.. Because It's pretty much instant death the second you're in range because you'll eat 1 Flame Burst or IM and then eat 4 Rail Shots instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'd really, really like a dev to provide some kind of justification before it goes live. We all know that PTS changes are pretty much live changes anyway. Oh well. I can take the now-useless two points from flame surge and put them in rebraced armor, I guess? That'll come in handy for watchman sents, lethality snipers and sorcs/sages whilst I'm flailing at them with my 1.2k rocket punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'd really, really like a dev to provide some kind of justification before it goes live. We all know that PTS changes are pretty much live changes anyway. Oh well. I can take the now-useless two points from flame surge and put them in rebraced armor, I guess? That'll come in handy for watchman sents, lethality snipers and sorcs/sages whilst I'm flailing at them with my 1.2k rocket punch. I'll just take my 15 bucks and apply it to a GW2 preorder instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Ion is also receiving a 25% damage bonus (maybe it won't suck anymore) which is nice.. Ion Gas Cylinder damage has been broken since beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Ion Gas Cylinder damage has been broken since beta. the 25% bonus is the same bonus it currently gets... but there is no extra 3 second duration on the dot. The damage on IGC is still broken, though the tooltip has changed. Overall, this is the most baffling change to powertechs since launch. The change to pyro so you couldn't hybrid into shield tech, that made sense at least... but cutting the legs off of a spec that was already on crutches is just plain mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) This change is baffling. The AoE changes has no major appreciable benefit to PvP and the loss of the Stockstrike crit bonus removal kneecaps the class' ONLY single target burst (which was small anyway). Worse yet, was an ability that was significant to our ability to manage a crowd since our job's not just to guard and taunt but to also to do a lot of of fielding/position control. This effects how well we can even do that now. And the thing is that this change isn't going to make people play "pure" tanks any more than before. All this change will do is make tanks who want some form of functional damage reroll to Tactics but run with Ion Cell on. Edited June 8, 2012 by AlyxDinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Sorry, but there's simply no way in hell he's averaging 300k dps if he's full tank, and 300k protection is next to impossible. The highest I've ever seen is 170k protection. People keep saying playing a tank is not about burst damage, and you're right; it's not. We're not doing crazy burst right now, so the nerf is totally unnecessary. 300k Protection is easy but also situational. Guarding the healer that gets focused first with another healing mostly unchecked to keep you both alive while taunting DPS on cooldown is a good way to get 400-500k Protection, at least as a Guardian. Averaging 300k/300k is BS though because not every team will deal enough damage to the right targets to give you these numbers consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 This change is baffling. The AoE changes has no major appreciable benefit to PvP and the loss of the Stockstrike crit bonus removal kneecaps the class' ONLY single target burst (which was small anyway). Worse yet, was an ability that was significant to our ability to manage a crowd since our job's not just to guard and taunt but to also to do a lot of of fielding/position control. This effects how well we can even do that now. And the thing is that this change isn't going to make people play "pure" tanks any more than before. All this change will do is make tanks who want some form of functional damage reroll to Tactics but run with Ion Cell on. You keep thinking these changes are for PvP, they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You keep thinking these changes are for PvP, they are not. Yeah, because it's a great idea when 'balancing' a class to only take into consideration the far less popular PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yeah, because it's a great idea when 'balancing' a class to only take into consideration the far less popular PvE. Tanks tend to be far more popular in PvE than PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Tanks tend to be far more popular in PvE than PvP. Obviously not the case in this game where tanks actually have a place in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Besta Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Ion is broken since forever.. so basicly we are getting + 25% on broken ability and on top minus 3 sec of duration, and in the same time the class ,that have lowest dps got its dps cut by 30%, for some pve changes. I never had problems in pve with agro, unless ppl blow all CD's at the beginning. Bioware seriously doesnt understand its own game: How you can destroy already 1 of the worst classes , and in the same time not even touch real OP classes.i understand its all about PVE, but you realy need to see all sides in changes like that. I know , bioware will never change it back, since it would be good idea, wich is against their policy to kill the game, but i guess all the time i spent by getting Supercommando set was a waste of my time, and now i need to get tech set to be pyrotech and make ppl cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Tanks tend to be far more popular in PvE than PvP. I wonder why?! Is it because our (PT's) entire ability to mitigate damage is worthless in PvP, and now we're getting damage nerfed to really kick us in the balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Besta Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 nerfingv most useless class in pvp is just silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 nerfingv most useless class in pvp is just silly To be fair, this is completely incorrect. This patch may make us suck even more at damage, but our pull, charge, taunts and AOE debuff bring a lot to the table in any WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Honestly, It really does not bother me they're nerfing Ptech "burst" damage in the shield tech line, Cause the damage was **** anyway and wasn't going to kill anyone but nubs. I'm more disappointed they didn't replace the lost damage with more utility abilities for tanking. I feel that's the key difference between Warhammer online tanks and SWTOR tanks. WAR's tanks were extremely hard to kill if specced beefer mode, and had a ton of utility and CC, they couldn't kill you usually unless you honestly stayed and fought them for 20 mins, but they were annoying as crap. SWTOR tanks just seem like a crappy version of that...Yea they're beefier then others, you can take a pounding..But you really don't have anymore CC or utility then most classes.. You're basically an HP pad for other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Honestly, It really does not bother me they're nerfing Ptech "burst" damage in the shield tech line, Cause the damage was **** anyway and wasn't going to kill anyone but nubs. I'm more disappointed they didn't replace the lost damage with more utility abilities for tanking. I feel that's the key difference between Warhammer online tanks and SWTOR tanks. WAR's tanks were extremely hard to kill if specced beefer mode, and had a ton of utility and CC, they couldn't kill you usually unless you honestly stayed and fought them for 20 mins, but they were annoying as crap. SWTOR tanks just seem like a crappy version of that...Yea they're beefier then others, you can take a pounding..But you really don't have anymore CC or utility then most classes.. You're basically an HP pad for other classes. If they did replace the lost damage with some utility, then I don't think people would be pissed. People are more pissed that the nerf is just a nerf. People aren't running around crying because their OP damage was taken away, they are upset because their subpar damage was reduced even further, without any compensation. PvE threat generation is easy mode now, no thought to it. What do we have to show for it? Nothing. All this is going to do is encourage me to tank flashpoints in tank gear and DPS spec with IGC. The ST tree hardly adds any real defensive abilities, anyway. I'll just leave the ops tanking to the Juggs and 'Sins. Once again, it's the reduction of damage with no compensation that people are pissed about. Damage was not OP and didn't need a nerf, so why did they nerf it? When people say, "I don't care if they nerf damage, I'm not supposed to do damage anyhow" it just makes things worse. That's like saying, "it's ok to cap the top speed of my car at 65mph because it's not a race car anyway!" Why would anyone be ok with getting kicked in the berries for no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 People are more pissed that the nerf is just a nerf. People aren't running around crying because their OP damage was taken away, they are upset because their subpar damage was reduced even further, without any compensation. Precisely. If the changes we were receiving somehow managed to compensate for the losses, it would be fine. But the benefits are largely to PvE (where, let's face it, threat management was already pretty easy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 We get two free flame sweeps, which I guess(?) is a slight increase to damage. The AOE slow will be useful in VS/Huttball too. But the fact remains that this very much seems like a nerf for the sake of nerfing. It's not as if PvE tanks are going to become OP all of a sudden with their 2k rocket punch, and for PvP it's just a massive loss to DPS. And yes, we're tanks, but that DOESN'T equate to zero DPS, especially when we've only got the one ability hitting for any real damage anyway. Guardians/Juggs got screwed too, and sins (about whom everyone was QQ'ing, not only because of their survivability but ALSO their damage output) don't lose any damage at all, and they get a lovely dev blog post justifying their nerfs at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutrek Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have pretty much given my Shield Tech up for a loss, since with BWs track record on PTS these changes will go live. At the moment I am focusing on gearing for Pyro while my tank spec is still a viable one in ppv. I will be bolstering the ranks the "weak dps" Pyro community so i can read about how OP they are and laugh since the ACs that need adjusting are not getting adjusted. This nerf is so unjustified I just don't know what to say. It would be nice if BW would at least tell us why. Taking out both 30% increase in crit damage and lowering crit chance on Rocket Punch is just way too much. Maybe thir plan all along is to not have tanks in PvP. Thats fine, but a better way to "fix" it is to just remove guard and taunt from being usable. =P No one will ever tank in PvP again. Way to go BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Shield spec is basically dead for me in PvP next patch after these changes. This was kind of the final blow to my already low morale because basically everyone I played with quit when D3 came out. Also, the gear grind was burning me out. I already went on the PTR and confirmed everything. The 30% surge bonus is gone. Ion Cell got nerfed and lasts 3 seconds shorter now. Stock Strike crits for a huge chunk less. Most I can do is about 1750-1900 crits on Light Armor classes now with my current 75% surge bonus. Basically my burst and sustained damage is gone. Edited June 9, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I have pretty much given my Shield Tech up for a loss, since with BWs track record on PTS these changes will go live. At the moment I am focusing on gearing for Pyro while my tank spec is still a viable one in ppv. I will be bolstering the ranks the "weak dps" Pyro community so i can read about how OP they are and laugh since the ACs that need adjusting are not getting adjusted. I'll be doing pretty much the same. Should have a good couple of months before they work around to nerfing pyro, realising they over-nerfed ST and fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Rinzler- Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 First they nerf my DPS op into oblivion. Now they nerf my Shield tech into oblivion (rank 84 full war hero). Just cancelled. Just finished guild wars 2 beta weekend and it was amazing. Was hoping to play swtor at least until it comes out. Guess not. Hopefully bioware will get their shiz together by time i get bored of guildwars....but i doubt it. They arent getting my subscription $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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