FourTwent Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Adrenals that were craftable by Biochemists before 1.3 can no longer be used in PvP Areas. Biochemists can now craft a version of Warzone Adrenals. The grade 6 crafting PvP box provides enough materials to craft 20-40 of these adrenals. Attack Adrenals now reduce healing done by 20% when active. The damage penalty of Triage Adrenals has been reduced from 50% to 20%. Level 48 Biochem consumables no longer require Grade 5 materials to craft. Level 45-46 "Mind-bending" implants now require Parasitic Microorganisms instead of Red Goo to craft. I bolded the 2 that I have an issue with. Was this really necessary? Do they really think they can fix the low TTK in warzones by nerfing Biochem yet again? Thankfully I picked cybertech when I re-rolled on my 3rd server. . .but this is getting ridiculous. Go ahead Bioware, just remove the only good crafting profession and get it over with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Are you honestly surprised by this? Frankly, my only surprise here is that they waited this long to nerf Biochem, and when all my PvP buddies were telling me to drop my current profession to pick it up, I told them I wasn't going to do that because it would inevitably be nerfed in PvP. You can't expect one crafting profession to render the rest irrelevant when it comes to certain aspects of the game. Bioware said at the launch of the game when they nerfed one of the other professions (forget which one it was now) that they did not want any single profession to be THE go to profession for end game, whether it was in PvE or PvP. Edited June 6, 2012 by Mournblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Are you honestly surprised by this? Frankly, my only surprise here is that they waited this long to nerf Biochem, and when all my PvP buddies were telling me to drop my current profession to pick it up, I told them I wasn't going to do that because it would inevitably be nerfed in PvP. You can't expect one crafting profession to render the rest irrelevant when it comes to certain aspects of the game. Bioware said at the launch of the game when they nerfed one of the other professions (forget which one it was now) that they did not want any single profession to be THE go to profession for end game, whether it was in PvE or PvP. There's ALWAYS going to be 'one best profession' when it comes to end game pve and end game pvp. Just like there's ALWAYS going to be flavor of the month classes even in a game that has every single class balanced. It's called the metagame. People talk, people discuss, and people theorize about which one is best and why. Over time that one crafting profession will be the go-to profession for anyone that has their fingers on the pulse of the metagame. To literally do what Bioware says and make none of the professions worth using in the end game. . .is ONLY going to nerf all professions into completely unusable ones. edit - oh right and something else that sucks. . . Warzone Expertise Adrenals have been renamed to Warzone Adrenals. The item now only provides PvP Damage Reduction and does not boost healing or damage. Edited June 6, 2012 by FourTwent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vycwulf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Of course it was nerfed! It was a crafting skill that made items that if used properly and timed correctly was actually useful. Can't have that! Requires skill and timing, things that take the fun out of facerolling the keyboard and is unfair to those that didn't prepare beforehand! Have to cater to those that don't prepare and make the gaming experience better for them, not those with a little bit of gray matter in their noggins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarg Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Do they really think they can fix the low TTK in warzones by nerfing Biochem yet again? They can, and just did along with the relics in PvP change. CD stacking is the primary driver of short ttk's, and it just got gutted again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Of course it was nerfed! It was a crafting skill that made items that if used properly and timed correctly was actually useful. Can't have that! Requires skill and timing, things that take the fun out of facerolling the keyboard and is unfair to those that didn't prepare beforehand! Have to cater to those that don't prepare and make the gaming experience better for them, not those with a little bit of gray matter in their noggins! As a guy that has 400 biochem on his first two toons, I would say it is spectacularly unfair to say anyone who chose another crafting skill "didn't prepare". I can admit it was a bit of an unfair advantage to be able to pop my Rakata attack adrenal all match long, while others were limited to consuming hyper level. My solution would have been to make the purples usable to level 50's so we could make some money on them, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneXXIV Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 All of my toons are biochem, there is no reason not to be biochem. I was hoping they would nerf biochem and buff the others so I have a reason to have another nongathering profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 All of my toons are biochem, there is no reason not to be biochem. I was hoping they would nerf biochem and buff the others so I have a reason to have another nongathering profession. The only reason my alts don't have Biochem is that I planned on losing my way to BM gear on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vycwulf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 As a guy that has 400 biochem on his first two toons, I would say it is spectacularly unfair to say anyone who chose another crafting skill "didn't prepare". I can admit it was a bit of an unfair advantage to be able to pop my Rakata attack adrenal all match long, while others were limited to consuming hyper level. My solution would have been to make the purples usable to level 50's so we could make some money on them, but... Maybe a touch unfair, but now rakata, hyper level, doesn't matter, none of them work in warzones anymore. Used to sell the blues on the market and only people that bought them really were pvp players. They were items, that even if they were the blue variety, were tactically useful. Didn't make many credits on it before, now will make none. For me biochem is pretty much no longer of any use. Will keep one of my 4 characters that are max biochem to make blue stat stims and redo the crew skills on the other three. Only bright side to the whole issue. Now I can do something that makes me some credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lijahrobinson Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 There's ALWAYS going to be 'one best profession' when it comes to end game pve and end game pvp. Just like there's ALWAYS going to be flavor of the month classes even in a game that has every single class balanced. It's called the metagame. People talk, people discuss, and people theorize about which one is best and why. Over time that one crafting profession will be the go-to profession for anyone that has their fingers on the pulse of the metagame. To literally do what Bioware says and make none of the professions worth using in the end game. . .is ONLY going to nerf all professions into completely unusable ones. edit - oh right and something else that sucks. . . Its not a metagame when there is only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnFrog Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 sad day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) They can, and just did along with the relics in PvP change. CD stacking is the primary driver of short ttk's, and it just got gutted again. sorry, the low TTK is not because of this. it's because of how expertise is different for dmg mitigation, dmg boost, and healing Its not a metagame when there is only one. I know you're trying to be cute and all with your snarky comeback. but if there were only one then there wouldn't be cybertech, and synthweaving, and etc etc etc Edited June 6, 2012 by FourTwent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Of course it was nerfed! It was a crafting skill that made items that if used properly and timed correctly was actually useful. Can't have that! Requires skill and timing, things that take the fun out of facerolling the keyboard and is unfair to those that didn't prepare beforehand! Have to cater to those that don't prepare and make the gaming experience better for them, not those with a little bit of gray matter in their noggins! I second this post. All in all I am under the impression that SWTOR is going the way WoW has gone removing useful crafting and professions from PvP is the first step (cyber tech grenades will be removed in 1.4 I bet on it), the next step will be that they will force us to spend 31 point in one skill tree. the game gets dumped down instead of adding useful stuff for all professions they remove stuff, instead of tuning for balance they remove stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 cyber tech grenades will be removed in 1.4 I bet on it that is true. ill go ahead and prepare myself for the 'gomg grenades are too OP' threads that'll start popping up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vycwulf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 cyber tech grenades will be removed in 1.4 I bet on it. I won't bet against you on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Warzone Adrenal nerf kind of sucks. I really don't even notice a damage reduction most of the time under them. So what stats do the WH things give now? // Also, I have Cybertech on my Sage and it's decent, not great. The grenades have short ranges, 3 minute cooldowns, and you have to choose which one to use and most of them break on damage. They aren't really comparable to the passive bonuses given by the Stims. Edited June 6, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Also, I have Cybertech on my Sage and it's decent, not great. The grenades have short ranges, 3 minute cooldowns, and you have to choose which one to use and most of them break on damage. They aren't really comparable to the passive bonuses given by the Stims. still. if biochem is crap, and everyone in the warzone has the grenades, that's a pretty significant advantage if the other team doesn't. maybe that's what they want though, a 'best' profession for pve and a different 'best' profession for pvp. if they think they'll really prevent the community from creating a meta around which profession to get if you're doing pve or pvp they're sadly mistaken. . .or the professions will just be so crappy that no one will bother with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranzid Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This total crap. First of all, I spent a fortune on buying augmented War Hero gear for two toons. So they are making my 2M+ investment obsolete with making augment packages that can be put on anything. Second, they are screwing up biochem which is the only thing that keeps me alive around the insanley OP agent/smuggler class. Guess its time to check out another game. Why are they wasting time taking things away from the game rather than first making ranked war zones and cross server war zones a reality. The ranked and cross server war zones would take care a major part of the problem. Instead they are screwing the player base causing more and more people to abandon the game for others coming down the pipe. Our server used to be always heavy. When they backed out of ranked at 1.2 we lost at least half our normal population seemingly in a day. In reality over a couple of months. What the hell are these guys thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesgile Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 still. if biochem is crap, and everyone in the warzone has the grenades, that's a pretty significant advantage if the other team doesn't. maybe that's what they want though, a 'best' profession for pve and a different 'best' profession for pvp. if they think they'll really prevent the community from creating a meta around which profession to get if you're doing pve or pvp they're sadly mistaken. . .or the professions will just be so crappy that no one will bother with them how about i give you the exact same answer as biochem. "you can buy and use the non-reusable ones. the effects are negligible, if not exactly the same as the reusable ones anyway." think not about sheeping towards the one single best choice, but about multiple options having multiple different comparable effects/benefits and/or counters each other. or did you think everyone and their moms spending 5 seconds following a single guide towards the undeniably single best way is somehow better/pro/elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Dunno why people are so upset about this change, cybertech was already the better pvp prof when they buffed WZ medpac and adrenals. If ur too stubborn to purchase them with comms, just find a lowbie who will sell them to u for credits. Easy peezy. As for stims, exotech are better than rakata, and if ur a fail with no money than the lvl 48 ones do just fine. Edited June 7, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesgile Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Dunno why people are so upset about this change, cybertech was already the better pvp prof when they buffed WZ medpac and adrenals. If ur too stubborn to purchase them with comms, just find a lowbie who will sell them to u for credits. Easy peezy. As for stims, exotech are better than rakata, and if ur a fail with no money than the lvl 48 ones do just fine. again if money is such a non-issue theres no reason why cybertech is the better pvp prof. you can always buy grenades off the market, right? easy peezy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 again if money is such a non-issue theres no reason why cybertech is the better pvp prof. you can always buy grenades off the market, right? easy peezy. Difference is, biochem reusables are subpar compared to the alternatives, while cybertech reusables are superior to the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesgile Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Difference is, biochem reusables are subpar compared to the alternatives, while cybertech reusables are superior to the alternatives. http://www.torhead.com/schematic/4i2btdb/v-4-seismic-grenade http://www.torhead.com/schematic/2xpEOXs/wynz-tek-experimental-shockwave-device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamosh Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 good move was tired of having to have bio on all my chars just to use the char to its full potential in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm not sure if i'm getting this right... Warzone adrenals cost 10 wz comms Biochems can craft 20-40 wz adrenals per grade 6 crafting PvP Box, which costs 1000 wz comms That makes no sense, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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