MAJOR changes to TTK - relics and WZ adrenals nerfed

[Pekish]

if it's taking 2 or 3 people to kill a single healer, then that's the fault of the 2 or 3 people. Esp 3, Which blows my mind...I mean If it's a Tank + Healer, it might slow me down a bit if it's just 1 of me, But if there is 2 other DPS with me, We'll explode that person even guarded and probably kill the tank at the same time.

 

I mean really, If you have 2 DPS in this game, there is really nothing that should be giving you trouble.

 

in ur server healer must sux real bad

[Lymain]

God mode healers? Wow. This change might make it worthwhile to actually have 2 healers on your team. Edited June 6, 2012 by Lymain

[Pekish]

obviously if then people like this bring only 1 healer i understand why they sux 1 healer alone cannot do much in my server every decent premade has 3 sometimes 4 depend from the type of healer some OPS are more DPS but still can heal...

 

i guess if u fight with a team with only one healer i understand why you think u can 1vs1 him.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Pekish

[Lymain]

obviously if then people like this bring only 1 healer i understand why they sux 1 healer alone cannot do much in my server every decent premade has 3 sometimes 4 depend from the type of healer some OPS are more DPS but still can heal...

 

i guess if u fight with a team with only one healer i understand why you think u can 1vs1 him.

 

On live currently, the 4man premade I play with the most doesn't have a healer. We've destroyed teams with 3+ healers in voidstar when we had one (from the pugs) or none. Healers can be useful on the other maps because you aren't always in position to have 3-4+ DPSers focusing them, but I have been wondering if it's even worth bringing a healer at all when they can be neutralized so easily (even through guard/taunts).

[Astarica]

On live currently, the 4man premade I play with the most doesn't have a healer. We've destroyed teams with 3+ healers in voidstar when we had one (from the pugs) or none. Healers can be useful on the other maps because you aren't always in position to have 3-4+ DPSers focusing them, but I have been wondering if it's even worth bringing a healer at all when they can be neutralized so easily (even through guard/taunts).

 

Aside from Huttball (keeping the ball carrier alive without heals is basically insane) I don't think there's any WZ where it's impossible to play with no healers. It'll usually be pretty hard but it's not an auto-lose. You don't have to be able to kill the healers to win either, which is what most people overlook. The team with with better healing will usually have a favorable kill to death ratio but that alone doesn't win you games. Alderran and Voidstar can be won (rather easily) while you're dying way more often than the other side. Huttball can be too if the guy dying somehow isn't the ball carrier, though that's usually not likely.

[Xsorus]

in ur server healer must sux real bad

 

Yes this must be it, Every healer on my entire server just sucks ***, and It's not you as a lone player who has trouble with healers.

 

It must be the entire server...

 

*grin*

[Xsorus]

obviously if then people like this bring only 1 healer i understand why they sux 1 healer alone cannot do much in my server every decent premade has 3 sometimes 4 depend from the type of healer some OPS are more DPS but still can heal...

 

i guess if u fight with a team with only one healer i understand why you think u can 1vs1 him.

 

I have never feared a team in my life that has brought 4 Healers into a Warfront.

 

You're pretty much insuring you won't be taking any objectives with a moronic setup like that.

[Xsorus]

On live currently, the 4man premade I play with the most doesn't have a healer. We've destroyed teams with 3+ healers in voidstar when we had one (from the pugs) or none. Healers can be useful on the other maps because you aren't always in position to have 3-4+ DPSers focusing them, but I have been wondering if it's even worth bringing a healer at all when they can be neutralized so easily (even through guard/taunts).

 

Clearly these people have never run in a 4 man Pyro powertech team.

 

They'd see how laughable healers really are.

[Pekish]

you are so bad that i find useless to talk to you

[Boozed]

Lower TTK ftw

[Frostbyt]

you might have to blow your cooldowns, but I certainly do not.

 

By the way, Healer teams were never unkillable, only Bad DPS couldn't take on Healer teams.

 

This is a marauder. We're all bad and need to l2p cause we aren't Mara/sent

[Jaiyne]

How can people say that the relic/adrenal nerf affects any spec beyond any other? Are people so hooked on their consumable buffs/clickies that they can't play well without them?

[-HP-]

How can people say that the relic/adrenal nerf affects any spec beyond any other? Are people so hooked on their consumable buffs/clickies that they can't play well without them?

 

Because some specs exist to do burst DPS, and others exist to do sustained DPS.

 

Sustained DPS specs use consumables to put more pressure on heals.

 

Burst DPS specs use consumables because if they don't and their initial burst fails, they lose. They have nothing left after their initial rotation.

 

Basically sustained DPS uses consumables to stay a little ahead in a protracted fight, and burst DPS uses consumables to stay viable.

 

There's a big difference between not being able to stay ahead in a protracted fight and not being able to stay viable.

[Bazzoong]

What you all do not get is that this nerf removes the defensive consumables as well as the offensive ones, all this will bring about is LESS OPTIONS and less available cds, the "OP_classes" will profit from this, all others get screwed.

 

Timing and preparation get dumped and spamming gets rewarded, have fun.

[Jaiyne]

Because some specs exist to do burst DPS, and others exist to do sustained DPS.

 

Sustained DPS specs use consumables to put more pressure on heals.

 

If people are so absolutely reliant on clickies for kills, they're doing something wrong. Positioning, movement, and coordination with teammates are more important now that you can't just pop a clicky to stack burst.

[stendarrs]

I honestly don't completely understand what this does to/for relics. Are all relics now going to be more like proc relics or a stat stick or something else entirely?

[Elkirin]

Many of the posters to these forums would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope.....

 

Keep up the amusing posts I get a massive laugh reading these forums!

[Smaugbelly]

I was enjoying my "Machine Gun Sniper", this change hurts.

 

Machine Gun Sniper, Entrench then hit Target Acquired + Alacrity Relic, Series of Shots, Rapid Fire, SoS, SoS, Ambush (1 sec), Follow through, Take down = dead opponent. You might need to toss a leg shot in there if they try to run.

[-HP-]

If people are so absolutely reliant on clickies for kills, they're doing something wrong. Positioning, movement, and coordination with teammates are more important now that you can't just pop a clicky to stack burst.

 

The only thing they're doing wrong is not rolling a class with a constant high DPS output such as Pyro Powertech. The simple fact of the matter is this change does not affect all classes equally. Whereas as a Pyrotech is capable of sustaining 2-3000 DPS every global CD indefinitely, operatives can use about 7 consecutive attacks at that DPS before running out of energy. It's got absolutely nothing to do with positioning. The Pyrotech can sustain that DPS from anywhere within 10m of his target. The operative has to be behind his target to even keep up. There's no playstyle improvement the operative can make to produce enough energy to maintain a Powertech's sustained DPS. You can say "coordinate with teammates", but the operative has no gap closer, and can't switch targets easily. You can say "only attack wounded targets", but again no gap closer, and there aren't always wounded targets, so the operative is losing more DPS sitting out of the fight waiting to jump in. You can say "improve your energy management", but there's no way to do that and hold up to another class's DPS.

 

Some classes are reliant on the relics to keep their burst rotation doing enough damage to make up for the fact that after it's over they're ineffective for several seconds. Some are not.

 

This is a shortsighted blanket change that simply pushes players further towards already leading specs: Pyrotechs with their cake energy management and Marauders with their total lack of having to worry about energy in the first place.

Edited June 7, 2012 by -HP-

[DarthOvertone]

Personally I think anything that lowers TTK is good at this point, but what does the community think?

 

I think it's a logical start, and wiser than nerfing DPS classes.

 

However, I think Expertise is the real culprit here so I expect BW will be revisiting this issue in 1.4.

[Astarica]

I think it's a logical start, and wiser than nerfing DPS classes.

 

However, I think Expertise is the real culprit here so I expect BW will be revisiting this issue in 1.4.

 

Two characters with identical expertise does damage to each other as if both have 0 expertise.

 

It may suck for characters with low expertise but there's no significant barrier to getting expertise. The increase in expertise from BM -> WH is very minimal.

[Xsorus]

This is a marauder. We're all bad and need to l2p cause we aren't Mara/sent

 

I have a Marauder, but I don't play my Marauder

 

My mains are my powertech and sniper, both which have zero trouble killing a healer or multiple healers.

[Kleve]

Personally I think anything that lowers TTK is good at this point, but what does the community think?

 

From the patch notes: PvP relics no longer have "on use" buffs, but provide passive buffs similar to te same stat they buffed previously, and WZ adrenals only provide damage reduction, NOT damage increases, on use.

 

Discuss!

 

Halle-freaking-lujah.

[unixbomber]

But how many times are they going to nerf burst classes?

 

Op/Scoundrel DEAD

 

Sin/Infil DEAD

 

Neither of them are dead.

[timidobserver]

Personally I think anything that lowers TTK is good at this point, but what does the community think?

 

From the patch notes: PvP relics no longer have "on use" buffs, but provide passive buffs similar to te same stat they buffed previously, and WZ adrenals only provide damage reduction, NOT damage increases, on use.

 

Discuss!

 

The only issue with the new WZ adrenals is that they can technically be crafted, but it costs about twice as much to craft them as opposed to just buying them from a vendor. It'd be like leaving the mats to make purple/magenta +41 crystals the same, and then putting the crystals on a vendor for 10k a piece.

Edited June 15, 2012 by timidobserver