there is nothing wrong with disagreement, but derailing a thread is an entirely different thing. We're not debating that this game was made as PVE/PVP - that needs NO DISCUSSION as its completely obvious. We're talking about some major changes that need to happen in the PVP side of the game to keep PVP players playing. What is so hard to understand about that? You'd think the PVE community would fight for improvements to the PVP side in the name of strengthening the community, but instead ignorant people post here and do the opposite. Sad. Bottom line: without a major overhaul to the PvP systems in SWTOR, the PvP community will continue to unsub until there's nothing left. Some people would argue its too late - here's to hoping its not.

this thread is about keeping PvP players in the game, glad you enjoy the PvE but that's not what we're discussing, thanks.

when there's no one left to queue against, we'll see.

Since the only PvP option in SWTOR is "queue for WZs while you stare at the walls in fleet", its pretty safe to say the PvP community is all but dead. Now with the release of GW2 only a week away its only a matter of time before PvP all but dies. I don't think it has to be this way however. By implementing 3 faction PvP in a similar fashion as Rift and reinstituting an objective based "open world PvP" zone, SWTOR could revive its PvP player base. Until that happens, PvPers will continue to unsub.

let's be honest...anyone who likes real PvP has left this game.

I can't even log into SWTOR anymore let alone queue for WZs, GW2 has ruined me. 3 more weeks

The biggest misconception (posted here frequently) about WvW or RvR is that the "zerg" always wins. Small to mid sized groups made up mostly of guilds with skilled PvPers absolutely destroy the zerg with superior use of tactics and communication. The best thing about GW2 is they have made it even easier to bust up zergs by not allowing players to use mounts to travel quickly to locations. By forcing the "winning side" (side with most objectives held) to run the furthest to reinforce objectives, they have made it possible for small groups to whittle the zerg down and make progress. The more BWEs I participated in and the more I learn about GW2 the worse SWTOR PvP looks.

The brilliance of WvW in GW2 is they are pitting servers against each other. "Realm pride" creates meaningful PvP, something reward systems and gear treadmills can never do. I'm hoping SWTOR implements something similar but it doesn't look like this is going to happen in the near future

GW2 is bringing back DAOC type RvR in a big way. I'm a huge fan of this game but unfortunately they're really blowing it with PvP.

Where did anyone in this thread say RvR was innovative? Taking an existing 2 faction game and "converting" it to 3 faction PvP is an innovation however. The random PvP you're talking about won't keep PvPers playing this game, sorry. A reward based system for Open World vs. World will. We need OPTIONS and right now we have very few.

Rift is implementing 3 faction PvP in a very simple way, one that SWTOR could easily adopt. We need something, or most of the PvPers will be leaving when another game arrives soon...in a month or so...

We need some innovation with the system like Rift is doing, they are implementing 3 faction PvP. Swtor needs to get creative with Open World, or PvPers will walk.

Yeah it was pretty bad, I definitely remember. I'm still holding out hope for something though.

Hardcore PvPers are getting bored of ranked and unranked Warzones fast because there are NO OTHER OPTIONS for PvP in this game. Give the PvP community some hope that we will see some kind of update to Open World PvP in the near future! I know you guys are back to the drawing board on Ilum, but its been a couple months since we've heard anything about it. Love this game, love the PvP...but I'm getting bored with only one option for PvP

....is making this game boring, fast. I've played since Early Access and I'm getting really, really bored with the same 4 war zones night in and night out. Hate to make this thread about GW2, but the major appeal of that game is there more options for PvPers. Want to play scenarios? Hop into the Heart of the Mists and do it. Want to head out into the massive conflict of World vs. World (RvR) with your small coordinated group and attack strategic supply lines and towers or harass the zerg? Maybe you want to zerg it up yourself, and overrun Keeps and Garrisons. There are TONS of options available, take your pick. I love everything about this game, but the lack of options in PvP is just getting boring. I'm really hoping there will be an announcement soon about the status of Open world PvP in this game that will make me want to stick around.