New level cap? What does that mean?

[Goretzu]

What a sad answer.

 

I don't know why you would start to grind after the level cap raise as there will probably be another cap raise the next year too.

 

Are you really playing only to get new gear ?

 

Even if it's the case, we have no idea when the level cap raise will occur or how they will handle it. It could come in 6 months, they could make it so you need the current endgame gear to get some new ones, we don't know if the current gear or content will be obsolete or not....

 

Dunno, why you don't try to have fun with the game as it is now, whether or not you like gear grinding and start to think about the future when we will have timeframes and more knowledge on what will come.

 

 

If you're sat at L50 on a character at the moment, the only progression you have is gear (PvP and PvE) this is the very CRUX of the "Themepark Model" (that's not my fault, it's just the game they've built).

 

Now most Themepark MMORPGs bring in a level cap raise every 18 months or so along with an expansion pack with a boat load of content.

 

With all these games in the run up to the new level cap old gear becomes pointless (which is why games like WoW often show a massive player drop off in the 3 months or so before an expansion), because usually green basic gear at the new level cap will be better than the uberest of gear at the old level cap.

 

It's pretty straight forward to understand.

 

Which means at the moment (assuming SWTORs level raise follows the normal proceedure) that at the moment any gear grinding at L50 is a complete waste of time and effort.

 

Now if the level cap raise is coming in December 2012 (just 12 months from Live) it may well be worth grinding for a few more months, but if it is coming in September 2012 (just 9 months from Live) then it is already probably pointless to grind anything out, as you'll likely only have it a month or so before you disguard it for higher level gear.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Goretzu

[griff_da_man]

Im sorry but i really dont get why you are all moaning about a level increase. <-- which hasnt actually been given a date..

 

Ok yes it will most likely make rakata gear useless.. (who knows?)

but when u was grinding lvl20 / lvl40 pvp gear (saying that you did..) was you upset to learn there was a champion set then to grind at 50? or battlemaster? or heaven forbid a new war hero? making previous sets pointless?.....

 

Now i enjoy grinding through raids.. getting my butt kicked on new content.. to come out of it .. possibly 4months down the line with new gear.. so what if in 8months after that (making 12months total.) the armour i have just grinded becomes worse then vendor armour? ive enjoyed the content and played it fully.

[TheHolgar]

before BW raise the lvlcap i sure hope they get their shiat together, like merging servers, get some of the comunity back, ranked warzones...the list goes on - couse i have hard time to think anyone will buy an xpack "today" regarding the health of the game, for me it looks like its goin down - i can have wrong though.

 

Btw - groupfinder is a good start, it will get me back.

[Goretzu]

before BW raise the lvlcap i sure hope they get their shiat together, like merging servers, get some of the comunity back, ranked warzones...the list goes on - couse i have hard time to think anyone will buy an xpack "today" regarding the health of the game, for me it looks like its goin down - i can have wrong though.

 

Btw - groupfinder is a good start, it will get me back.

 

 

 

I wonder if that is their idea:

 

Merge server and relaunch the game with a new level cap.

 

It seems to make the most sense out of everything.

[Sendai_S]

It's gonna make people quit imo - maybe not enough to make a difference but there will be people leaving over this.

[Nyla]

 

 

If you're sat at L50 on a character at the moment, the only progression you have is gear (PvP and PvE) this is the very CRUX of the "Themepark Model" (that's not my fault, it's just the game they've built).

 

Now most Themepark MMORPGs bring in a level cap raise every 18 months or so along with an expansion pack with a boat load of content.

 

With all these games in the run up to the new level cap old gear becomes pointless (which is why games like WoW often show a massive player drop off in the 3 months or so before an expansion), because usually green basic gear at the new level cap will be better than the uberest of gear at the old level cap.

 

It's pretty straight forward to understand.

 

Which means at the moment (assuming SWTORs level raise follows the normal proceedure) that at the moment any gear grinding at L50 is a complete waste of time and effort.

 

Now if the level cap raise is coming in December 2012 (just 12 months from Live) it may well be worth grinding for a few more months, but if it is coming in September 2012 (just 9 months from Live) then it is already probably pointless to grind anything out, as you'll likely only have it a month or so before you disguard it for higher level gear.

 

I understand how it works but again a sad answer.

 

You are talking about pointless grind and waste of time and effort, it's really funny.

 

Playing a game is pointless and a waste of time and effort.

 

Waiting for the level cap raise and grinding then for new gear is pointless, you won't get anything real from the gear and it will be obsolete anyway a few months later.

 

 

I will continue to play, do WZs and grind to get a few pieces of armor, even if it's pointless as I have fun playing which is not pointless and way more important than the few shiny pixels I may get.

[Enutie]

Come on, dont raise level cap alrighty!

[Stenrik]

I don't like the idea of the current HM's and flashpoints becoming obsolete, and new players just skipping over them entirely.

 

I'm no MMO vet, but is it reasonable to speculate they'll raise the difficulty of the current ops and flashpoints and increase the gear drops to match the new level cap?

Like, say, "KP lvl 50 mode" and "KP lvl 60 mode".

Edited June 5, 2012 by Stenrik

[Goretzu]

I understand how it works but again a sad answer.

 

You are talking about pointless grind and waste of time and effort, it's really funny.

 

Playing a game is pointless and a waste of time and effort.

 

Waiting for the level cap raise and grinding then for new gear is pointless, you won't get anything real from the gear and it will be obsolete anyway a few months later.

 

 

I will continue to play, do WZs and grind to get a few pieces of armor, even if it's pointless as I have fun playing which is not pointless and way more important than the few shiny pixels I may get.

 

 

 

What other answer is there? It is the Themepark model.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 18 months or so under the Themepark model is acceptable.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 12 months under the Themepark model is boardering on the unacceptable.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 6-9 months under the Themepark model is plain gouging the players.

 

 

 

Now given that most MMORPGs have a massive drop off 3 months before the next expansion (for the reason given - all gear is rendered pointless) I dunno how you can think it would be a good idea.

 

The only logical thing I can thing of (that doesn't result in a gouging level grind model) is the intend to relauch the game with a new level cap (after server merges).

 

Other than that it seems to be going down the undisguised treadmill route in a way no other subscription based MMORPG has ever dared to try.

[Sendai_S]

I'm curious what marketing statistics actually make this a viable business move. It seems like a bad move to me.

[alifaraaz]

I dont think anyone wants old content to become obsolete and it would be a silly move to raise the cap soon. Are BW that silly? Maybe they have some ideas, such as including a new difficulty for FP's such as Nightmare for lvl 55 (or whatever new cap would be).

Likewise the revamp of Nightmare mode may be applied to EV and KP bringing the nightmare version up to lvl 55. Which is pure speculation, in fatc not even that, just an idea that occurred to me and a guildy.

 

But more realistically, I think BW know raising the cap = killing off most old content unless they do a lot of revamping to bring that content up with the raise...which tbh sort of trivialises the entire lvl cap raise? All that for the sake of experiencing a new planet, and to generally start the progression ladder again.

It's not a terrible idea, but I would even say the next 4 months is too soon. Absolute minimum I would say is Decemeber, 1 year after launch.

 

So my personal guess rather is that this was purely included in the video as an announcement. Not an annoucement to say lvl cap raise is coming with these future ops and WZ etc, but more or less an annoucement to say:

"We've got stuff in the works, some will come sooner than others. e.g Ranked WZ will be soon, along with hopefully Nightmare EC, and then a while after that the New Ops and New WZ will come in 1.4. Likely after that more new stuff followed in 1.5 And then in the distant future, we do plan to include a Lvl cap raise" i.e. Saying there are bigger plans for the future of the game, and we dont simply plan to let it die. Which to be fair, is a serious concern for some people, and people have even asked on these forums about whether theres any future for the game etc.

[Nyla]

 

 

 

What other answer is there? It is the Themepark model.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 18 months or so under the Themepark model is acceptable.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 12 months under the Themepark model is boardering on the unacceptable.

 

Resetting the gear grind every 6-9 months under the Themepark model is plain gouging the players.

 

 

 

Now given that most MMORPGs have a massive drop off 3 months before the next expansion (for the reason given - all gear is rendered pointless) I dunno how you can think it would be a good idea.

 

The only logical thing I can thing of (that doesn't result in a gouging level grind model) is the intend to relauch the game with a new level cap (after server merges).

 

Other than that it seems to be going down the undisguised treadmill route in a way no other subscription based MMORPG has ever dared to try.

 

You really don't know what other answer is there ? It may sound rude, sorry, but you need help.

 

Rewards are a bonus and not the reason why you should play games.

 

You do FPs, OPs, WZs because it's fun, if you get rewards, that's nice but not that important.

 

If devs reset gear grind, it's not important, you are playing because it's fun not because you have 2 pieces of WH gear and expect to get the rest soon.

[Mrcheezle]

It means new gear grind.

[Goretzu]

You really don't know what other answer is there ? It may sound rude, sorry, but you need help.

 

Why? For stating the truth?

 

Rewards are a bonus and not the reason why you should play games.

 

You do FPs, OPs, WZs because it's fun, if you get rewards, that's nice but not that important.

 

If devs reset gear grind, it's not important, you are playing because it's fun not because you have 2 pieces of WH gear and expect to get the rest soon.

 

The very crux of the Themepark model is the gear grind (after the level grind) which resets with new level caps (which is fine with a decent gap of 18 months or so).

 

There's nothing in the Themepark model without that reality (the sandbox model is different, of course).

 

Nothing in Themepark design is made to be "fun" for funs sake, it's all about the grind to get better; that is the whole hook on which the Themepark model is built.

 

This is just how it is, I don't understand why you can't accept this..... do you not equip better gear when you get it because you play the game purely for "fun"?

Edited June 5, 2012 by Goretzu

[Nyla]

Why? For stating the truth?

 

 

 

The very crux of the Themepark model is the gear grind (after the level grind) which resets with new level caps (which is fine with a decent gap of 18 months or so).

 

There's nothing in the Themepark model without that reality (the sandbox model is different, of course).

 

Nothing in Themepark design is made to be "fun" for funs sake, it's all about the grind to get better; that is the whole hook on which the Themepark model is built.

 

This is just how it is, I don't understand why you can't accept this..... do you not equip better gear when you get it because you play the game purely for "fun"?

 

That's why you need help because you don't understand.

 

Sure I do equip better gear when I get some but it's not the reason I play. That's the thing you don't understand, there's a difference between how a system is build and works and how people interact and use it.

 

The gear grind have no importance to me, I would do warzones with or without gear grind. I don't need shinies to continue to do somethnig I like.

 

Just because a game has or not a specific system, it doesn't mean I have to change my mindset. There's no incentive to do owPvP but I found some every time I wanted to. They could remove gear grind in WZs, keep the current one or reset it today, in a week, in 3 months or more, I would still do WZs.

[APNTerra]

they never stated when it will come in. They just stated it is coming. They could have level increase not hit until december which is a year from release which isn't too bad for an MMO

 

Actually, at the end of the video, it says coming in July.

[Goretzu]

That's why you need help because you don't understand.

 

But I do understand, I am simply stating how it is.

 

Sure I do equip better gear when I get some but it's not the reason I play. That's the thing you don't understand, there's a difference between how a system is build and works and how people interact and use it.

Then clearly you don't just play for "fun" you use the better gear too, so you are in the system whether you realise/accept it or not.

 

The gear grind have no importance to me, I would do warzones with or without gear grind. I don't need shinies to continue to do somethnig I like.

 

Then why not do Warzone with L10 gear if gear is meaningless to you and you just PvP for the pure "fun" of PvP?

 

Just because a game has or not a specific system, it doesn't mean I have to change my mindset. There's no incentive to do owPvP but I found some every time I wanted to. They could remove gear grind in WZs, keep the current one or reset it today, in a week, in 3 months or more, I would still do WZs.

 

So you'd be fine if Bioware reset the gear grind every week?

 

Maybe you are the type of player they are aiming at then, but I don't think there's very many of you around.

[Goretzu]

Actually, at the end of the video, it says coming in July.

 

So that would be just 7 months after Live?

[APNTerra]

So that would be just 7 months after Live?

 

i COULD be wrong though, as below the "coming in july" its mentions the bull**** F2P upto level 15

[Rheshalea]

People (read: raiders) take breaks before new expansions because they've cleared the current content and have all the gear they want.

 

Granted, I've not raided in TOR, and I have no real desire to do so after I spent 6 years playing WoW, 5 of them raiding, and 4 of those years leading a successful social raid guild. Sure, some people always quit raiding at the first hints of a new expansion, but most raiders kept raiding until they had beaten the content. THEN they started getting bored. THEN they started waiting impatiently for new content.

 

If we in TOR get new content, a raised level cap, before people are getting bored (and from what I read on the forums it's already too late for that for a lot of people), how can it be a bad thing? As long as the new content is up to scratch and not as buggy as I've read the current OPs are/were, the sooner we get it, the better.

 

Personally I'm hoping to play TOR for as long as I was playing WoW, and if new (worthwhile! Not pandas!) content is being added every year as opposed to every 18-20 months, I'll be very likely to do just that.

[Cuaarl_Hosmi]

I'm not complaining but it seems very early to me to be raising the level cap. I hope its only too 55.

[FeelFlow]

Now people are complaining about too much end-game/new level cap content.

 

This is the first for an MMO community!

 

Re. the gear progression. Apologies if I've misunderstood things, but the augment kits means that the idea of this being a gear progression game (re. collecting new chest pieces etc.) isn't the case. Sure, you'll need new mods, but my understanding is that you'll be able to play PVE endgame in your Esseles / Black Talon chest piece and still be competitive. Massive apologies if wrong...

[Kabaal]

Most of my toons are fully geared and i still wouldn't mind the level cap raise. I only PvP and anything that could possibly add more to the current one dimension that is pvp is good in my books. I just hope that they don't make a mess of balancing the new skills.

[BJWyler]

I understand the level cap increase. But...

 

In what universe does it make sense to replace 3 relevant raids with 1 in a game where people struggle to find things to do?

 

Those raids remain the level 50 Raids, just like the origin world Heroics remain origin world Heroics. Every content update has brought a new Op if I am not mistaken, so it's reasonable to assume that once they implement the cap, all future Ops will be geared for the new cap. The new cap doesn't make the old Ops completely irrelevant as you still get XP up to 5 levels above the mobs and 6 levels above the quest/mission level, so from a "fun" standpoint, they would still be worth doing for a while, and always worth doing if you want to help someone out.

 

BJ

[Korusus]

One new planet, and one new OP? And that requires a level cap increase?

 

Something smells fishy there. Perhaps the video is just misleading, the new planet and OP may come out well before the level cap increase which itself will be paired with a ton of new content that will make raising the level cap seem not like a stupid idea?

 

I just have a hard time believing anyone would resub for one new planet and one new OP. Maybe they'll explain more over the next couple of days. Hopefully this marks a turning point and an end to their bunker mode mentality.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Korusus