Sorcerer needs a defensive cooldown

[Calitri]

It's called static barrier, believe it or not. It actually works!

[truchaos]

Static barrier can, and will, get chewed through in a single hit.

 

How many other CD's last only a single hit?

[Smashbrother]

Static barrier can, and will, get chewed through in a single hit.

 

How many other CD's last only a single hit?

 

Yes but the other cds have 2-3 min cds. Shield is 20s. Thats like an extra 18k hp over 2 mins. Pretty sure that is more hp saved vs. the 25% dam reduction classes have for 12s.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Smashbrother

[AcidScald]

Yes but the other cds have 2-3 min cds. Shield is 20s. Thats like an extra 18k hp over 2 mins. Pretty sure that is more hp saved vs. the 25% dam reduction classes have for 12s.

 

math is great tool..so tell us how many extra HP sorcs get in there life time? none sorc can stand for 2 min. 2-3 shield max if focused even less. and if u not heal spec u can't protect others. also how many HP/armor reting light armor has?

[Smashbrother]

math is great tool..so tell us how many extra HP sorcs get in there life time? none sorc can stand for 2 min. 2-3 shield max if focused even less. and if u not heal spec u can't protect others. also how many HP/armor reting light armor has?

 

Play a commando, and see how survivable they are when they don't have their def cd up. Def cd are nice as hell when you've got them, but they don't last that long and they have long cd timers.

 

Armor is also quite meaningless when every class has armor penetration and armor reduction up the ***.

[Paulman]

What the sorc needs is for their abilities to scale properly.

[Lanimal]

Yes but the other cds have 2-3 min cds. Shield is 20s. Thats like an extra 18k hp over 2 mins. Pretty sure that is more hp saved vs. the 25% dam reduction classes have for 12s.

 

You do not factor in the time dead in spawn as after one-max two static barrier breaks Sorcerers are dead within seconds against bursty classes. (Talking from a ranked POV). So in essence even though our static barrier is quicker to consume it does not increase our life expectancy by much so the low cooldown does not help much. Comparatively the defensive CD's of other classes can genuinely allow them to survive.

[AcidScald]

Play a commando, and see how survivable they are when they don't have their def cd up. Def cd are nice as hell when you've got them, but they don't last that long and they have long cd timers.

 

Armor is also quite meaningless when every class has armor penetration and armor reduction up the ***.

 

I have both and i know that commandos/mercs suck hard right now... but we r talking about sages now shield is not that OP as u say.. and lets be honest that survivability it's adds to a light armored toon is not that big.

[Astarica]

Play a commando, and see how survivable they are when they don't have their def cd up. Def cd are nice as hell when you've got them, but they don't last that long and they have long cd timers.

 

Armor is also quite meaningless when every class has armor penetration and armor reduction up the ***.

 

They say money can't buy happiness, but have you tried to buy happiness without money? Likewise, armor can't buy you survivality, but have you tried buying survivality without armor? Okay Marauders can do that because of Cloak of Pain, but otherwise classes without low armor classification indeed dies signifcantly faster than the ones with high armor classification. Heavy armor isn't much, but it's still better than light armor by quite a bit.

[Elkirin]

Keep it civil, when ranked warzones actually do arrive they require people wanting to queue or they will fail.

 

If you kill off anyones beloved class, they often just leave rather than reroll.

 

I thank those posters who are making constructive suggestions aimed at making all classes viable in ranked PvP.

 

The PvP forums could do with more posters who are neither petty or self obsessed.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Elkirin

[dronepilot]

I really have to wonder why this happened so dramatically. Force Amour as it is for Sages, last 30 sec's played this on my Alt in PVE and PVP, and some times it doesn't feel like 30 secs at all. DPS, in PVP and PVE play, go right through the bubble especially when playing level 50 quests.

 

When you see a good third of health being taken, when your shield is up, its not very comforting. Plus, I think, what this needs is the resistance of the shield scaling better with dps in 1.2 I think as it is, its not scaling properly. I just think my Sage takes more damage than it should be with the bubble 'up'.

[Lanimal]

That would be the lazy way out from Bioware. If they increase the static barriers absorption from say 2.75k to around 4k-4.5k. Yes it is now able to last through one railshot (but not one smash). However, this has a bigger probability of screwing the balance of the game as I feel this would make my Sorcerer OP. Static Barrier as mentioned above is on a 20s cooldown and the ability to shield a burst every 20 seconds is too good. Now if they increase the cooldown on Static Barrier that messes us up even further because without the barrier we are completely useless.

 

Which is why I feel they should not mess with the static barrier at all and just give us an addition defensive CD.

 

However knowing how most MMO developers work this might be a very realistic outcome come 1.3. (Buffing the static barrier)

[Heideggar]

If I could cast while moving that may be all I need. I can speed burst, I can slow, I can knock back, I can stun, but all these are severely diminished when I have to stop to cast my heals (excluding barrier). To heal 8k hp (half someone's health), on average, that'd take me two casts, or about 5seconds. Nothing I have gives me 5 seconds of uninterrupted casting.

 

Of course, I get slowed and rooted like crazy anyways, so while if I had the option to heal on the move, I wouldn't realistically have the opportunity a whole lot during the times I'd really want it.

 

The resolve bar not accounting for roots and snares is a bit of a joke.

[fearxninja]

I am fairly satisfied with the state of the Sorcerer right now. I understand its drawbacks and its role within the 8v8 environment. This is the reason I play a utility sorcerer and not a pure DPS or Heal sorcerer. I have been playing this class since launch and I do believe I am one of the top sorcs on my server. I understand the mechanics of kiting, resolve, line of sight, smart movement etc.

 

However, this still does not change the fact that we need a PURE defensive cooldown for the Sorcerer. The static barrier will simply not be enough once rated hits. Powertech Railshot, Juggernaut Smash, Operative Burst all eat through the barrier way too easily (Marauders I have no issue with) combine that with the snares that the first two classes have makes it pretty difficult even for a skilled sorcerer to kite them.

 

What I mean by a PURE defensive cooldown is not something similar to undying rage and force shroud (I feel BW got those wrong in the first place). As those abilities are more often used as offensive cool-downs than defensive ones. As there is no increase in rage cost or lockout of abilities when those are active.

 

I am asking for something similar to Ice Block from WoW where you are invulnerable for damage for a few seconds can choose to disable it yourself and are not allowed to MOVE or CAST anything while its happening. All this will do is allow us to BLOCK one railshot or one SMASH if timed properly. It will also require a decent skill ceiling to truly master such an ability. This will increase our survivability just enough without making us OP.

 

Do you guys think this is too much to ask? What are the drawbacks of such a POOR defensive cooldown?

 

If you need A defensive CD on a sorce, you need to quit the game.

 

The day a melee kills me with a smash or better yet the day a melee can stay within melee range of me for for than 3 seconds if I'm not stunned up the *** with all sorts of crazy stuns, I'll quit this game.

 

Yeah, lets put in a timed block so ppl playing on foreign connections nvr get to use it due to delay.

 

Scourge - Best Sorce in Game

Edited June 5, 2012 by fearxninja

[AdamLKvist]

If you need A defensive CD on a sorce, you need to quit the game.

 

The day a melee kills me with a smash or better yet the day a melee can stay within melee range of me for for than 3 seconds if I'm not stunned up the *** with all sorts of crazy stuns, I'll quit this game.

 

Yeah, lets put in a timed block so ppl playing on foreign connections nvr get to use it due to delay.

 

Scourge - Best Sorce in Game

 

I didn't know roleplayers came to the PvP forum nowadays. Life's a constant lesson!

[Lanimal]

If you need A defensive CD on a sorce, you need to quit the game.

 

The day a melee kills me with a smash or better yet the day a melee can stay within melee range of me for for than 3 seconds if I'm not stunned up the *** with all sorts of crazy stuns, I'll quit this game.

 

Yeah, lets put in a timed block so ppl playing on foreign connections nvr get to use it due to delay.

 

Scourge - Best Sorce in Game

 

You yourself mentioned in another thread that you solo q and max q with 1 or 2 other guys. You do not have fair perception of what true nature of ranked will be if you haven't been playing/preparing for a ranked environment pre 1.2.

 

I would love to see you kite a skilled PT, Vengeance-Immortal Hybrid Jugg / Operative DPS for longer than 25 seconds while still contributing objectively to the Warzone.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Lanimal

[fearxninja]

I didn't know roleplayers came to the PvP forum nowadays. Life's a constant lesson!

 

Serious time now,

 

I'll upload my stream when I wake up tomorrow so you learn to play from a god alright? I also take paypal from the lessons you'll want to buy after you **** your pants watching a beast play.

Edited June 5, 2012 by fearxninja

[fearxninja]

You yourself mentioned in another thread that you solo q and max q with 1 or 2 other guys. You do not have fair perception of what true nature of ranked will be if you haven't been playing/preparing for a ranked environment pre 1.2.

 

I would love to see you kite a skilled PT, Vengeance-Immortal Hybrid Jugg / Operative DPS for longer than 25 seconds while still contributing objectively to the Warzone.

 

Ohhhhh Pyros aka glass cannons? lul I have 4 ways to escape those no skill rail shotting fiends and on top of that they have 1 defensive CD that sucks anyway. lul squishy pyros.

 

Hybrid Jugs? Oh no, charge with a 4 second immunity to CC followed through with a ravage, w/e will I doooooo!Count to 4 in your head, Blow a cc so when you sprint away you dont get force pushed and start the whole cycle of their charge getting put on refresh. apply barrier, apply death field, apply shock, apply creeping terror, apply affliction, get charged again, apply shock then get force pushed then charged right after, Static barrier and apply shock while waiting 4 seconds, use knock back or whirlwind, creeping terror, affliction, shock, force lightning spam to hopefully get crushing darkness and dead. Also their rage generation blows so yep.

 

Operatives? Yeah wow, easiest class to kite in da game. If they're missing their vanish its stupid funny

 

Went on about vengeance jugs the most because 4 seconds of immunity to CC lets some of the geared bads put some dmg on you before you can move again. I actually have to use 10% of my thinker to come up with a way to kite them.

 

Contributing to wz while doing all this? Do you even read what you write sometimes? What do you want me to be the ball carrier and kite an entire team and score it? I'm the guy sitting at vital spots on huttball pulling you into a cap or the guy applying roots and ccs effectively when you're getting chased around by a couple of marauders on speed. Or I'm the guy who runs over to grass by himself on The Civil War on start and even if there is 3 going there I know I can hold off 3 ppl for at least 45 seconds while the rest of the team steam rolls over mid and comes to help me while im about dead keeping 3 ppl from capping that node.

 

True perception? I've been playing competitive FPS for years now. Playing a MMO pvp is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow motion.

Edited June 5, 2012 by fearxninja

[Bbizzle]

Except those defensive cooldowns dont break via burst damage like the static barrier does. Besides what I am asking for is not going to TURN the tables for us in a 1v1 against a PT/Rage Jugg or Operative DPS. It will just allow us to kite them longer and play more objective orientated. Not die in a 5 second burst.

 

Except the BH's one is ALL they have. Like literally. 25% decrease in damage, which doesnt stop damage mind you. I've still crit BH's with the bubble on for 3k-4k. And thats on a 2 minute cooldown. If you want something like that, I want your bubble on a 20 second cooldown too. Fair trade?

[fearxninja]

Except the BH's one is ALL they have. Like literally. 25% decrease in damage, which doesnt stop damage mind you. I've still crit BH's with the bubble on for 3k-4k. And thats on a 2 minute cooldown. If you want something like that, I want your bubble on a 20 second cooldown too. Fair trade?

 

Yeah well you can give my lightning strike and death field a 90% armor reduction and we have a deal

Edited June 5, 2012 by fearxninja

[Cempa]

Sorcerer needs a slight rework of the talent trees without -necessarily- increase in DPS or burst.

 

Lightning needs less RNG and less things to juggle. Madness needs better Force regeneration.

 

All builds need Electric Binding at Tier one.

 

I would like to see Sorcerer gain more from Expertise damage wise, our DoTs hit less -faaaar less- than a Marauders -Annihilation- and that seems wrong.

 

Edit: Sorcerer gained the least from the Expertise increase. The more of a DPS/Burst build you have the more you gained AND main sources of damage fro Sorcerer had damage and crit reduced.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Cempa

[BambulaGTS]

Yeah well you can give my lightning strike and death field a 90% armor reduction and we have a deal

 

Hey LEGEND, death field already ignores 100 % armor, cause it does internal damage (see tooltip).

[Daiyukie]

If the thread title was "Sorceror needs another defensive cooldown" I might agree, but the fact that think your bubble isn't a defensive cooldown is kind of a kick to the "this argument is well-founded" aspect of the post, even disregarding the misspelling of your own class.

 

I could see Sorc/Sage having something like a blind to basically kill melee's damage for 4 seconds or so and it'd fit nicely with the classes, just a big blast of energy to drop an opponent's accuracy by 90%. Certainly wouldn't break the class, perhaps having it dispellable by other Sorc/Sage healers would add a further balancing aspect to it, but it's certainly not needed. I just like the idea of having important debuffs that a healer needs to watch for, though with the currently TINY little debuff icons in the Ops frames, you'd need some more UI tweaking, but it would do wonders for emphasizing coordination, awareness and a moving-away from all this focus on simple burst damage focus fire stuff.

 

Having every DPS hit the same target is pretty much the most basic act of teamwork I can think of other than "alright, everyone leave queue.." and actually showing up for the WZ =P Our PvP needs a few more layers of depth methinks, but what other cooldown would you guys recommend as appropriate for the squishy Sorc/Sages out there?

[Lanimal]

Ohhhhh Pyros aka glass cannons? lul I have 4 ways to escape those no skill rail shotting fiends and on top of that they have 1 defensive CD that sucks anyway. lul squishy pyros.

 

Hybrid Jugs? Oh no, charge with a 4 second immunity to CC followed through with a ravage, w/e will I doooooo!Count to 4 in your head, Blow a cc so when you sprint away you dont get force pushed and start the whole cycle of their charge getting put on refresh. apply barrier, apply death field, apply shock, apply creeping terror, apply affliction, get charged again, apply shock then get force pushed then charged right after, Static barrier and apply shock while waiting 4 seconds, use knock back or whirlwind, creeping terror, affliction, shock, force lightning spam to hopefully get crushing darkness and dead. Also their rage generation blows so yep.

 

Operatives? Yeah wow, easiest class to kite in da game. If they're missing their vanish its stupid funny

 

Went on about vengeance jugs the most because 4 seconds of immunity to CC lets some of the geared bads put some dmg on you before you can move again. I actually have to use 10% of my thinker to come up with a way to kite them.

 

Contributing to wz while doing all this? Do you even read what you write sometimes? What do you want me to be the ball carrier and kite an entire team and score it? I'm the guy sitting at vital spots on huttball pulling you into a cap or the guy applying roots and ccs effectively when you're getting chased around by a couple of marauders on speed. Or I'm the guy who runs over to grass by himself on The Civil War on start and even if there is 3 going there I know I can hold off 3 ppl for at least 45 seconds while the rest of the team steam rolls over mid and comes to help me while im about dead keeping 3 ppl from capping that node.

 

True perception? I've been playing competitive FPS for years now. Playing a MMO pvp is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow motion.

 

Same here, just transferred over to MMO's for SWTOR. Been playing source for 10+ years. You are stating all this assuming no other secondary variable will play a part in all of this. No one has this much freedom in a WZ , rated environment. You do not go around 1v1, 1v1, 1v1 dueling every class. Even if they are not focus firing you there will be other variables from other enemies thrown into play that won't allow you to execute your very well thought out kite rotation. These variables might not be them targetting you but could be simply a snare or a stun or the fact that one of the others starts capping on Novare Coast or Alderaan. Its not always that straightforward to sprint away or LoS based on the kite rotation against a vengeance juggernaut and in doing so mess up objectively speaking. Every kiting decision you make has to be objective minded. In LoS-ing the Juggernaut you might be LoSing yourself from the node etc.

 

What I am trying to get at is that its easy to come up with a kiting rotation in a closed system however because the amount of effort and moves/decison making that a kiting rotation requires against a PT and especially Juggernauts that more often than not one or the other is sacrificed (Objectives or Kiting). I also think your argument against a PT is a joke. If you are able to kill PT's on a consistent basis as a Sorcerer I am sorry you have not faced good PT's. It might be also cause you do not get focus fired in your server as your server might have a higher population but I call complete BS on that. I can survive against 75% of the WH PT's on my server, I can probably beat only 20-30% of them on a straight 1v1. The elite 25% (like the PT's on my team) I do not even stand a chance. Its just how the classes work against each other.

[Darth_Philar]

I like all these people in here complaining about our bubble and insisting that it is our DCD.

 

You never hear a peep out of them when that bubble gets cast on them.

 

Oh, that's right, I went there.

Our bubble is not OUR DCD. It is a frontloaded heal that YOU benefit from just as much as we do which means that if it gets counted as a DCD for US then it also counts for YOU meaning we STILL need a DCD to make it even.

 

/thread