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Sorcerer needs a defensive cooldown


Lanimal

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I am fairly satisfied with the state of the Sorcerer right now. I understand its drawbacks and its role within the 8v8 environment. This is the reason I play a utility sorcerer and not a pure DPS or Heal sorcerer. I have been playing this class since launch and I do believe I am one of the top sorcs on my server. I understand the mechanics of kiting, resolve, line of sight, smart movement etc.

 

However, this still does not change the fact that we need a PURE defensive cooldown for the Sorcerer. The static barrier will simply not be enough once rated hits. Powertech Railshot, Juggernaut Smash, Operative Burst all eat through the barrier way too easily (Marauders I have no issue with) combine that with the snares that the first two classes have makes it pretty difficult even for a skilled sorcerer to kite them.

 

What I mean by a PURE defensive cooldown is not something similar to undying rage and force shroud (I feel BW got those wrong in the first place). As those abilities are more often used as offensive cool-downs than defensive ones. As there is no increase in rage cost or lockout of abilities when those are active.

 

I am asking for something similar to Ice Block from WoW where you are invulnerable for damage for a few seconds can choose to disable it yourself and are not allowed to MOVE or CAST anything while its happening. All this will do is allow us to BLOCK one railshot or one SMASH if timed properly. It will also require a decent skill ceiling to truly master such an ability. This will increase our survivability just enough without making us OP.

 

Do you guys think this is too much to ask? What are the drawbacks of such a POOR defensive cooldown? :D

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Bubble on 30s cooldown, it's the same thing the other ranged DPS classes have (shield probe on sniper, BH cooldown etc). You're not supposed to have any durability as a DPS caster unless you're being guarded/healed >.> Edited by Goldenstar
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Except those defensive cooldowns dont break via burst damage like the static barrier does. Besides what I am asking for is not going to TURN the tables for us in a 1v1 against a PT/Rage Jugg or Operative DPS. It will just allow us to kite them longer and play more objective orientated. Not die in a 5 second burst. Edited by Lanimal
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I'll trade you my vanguard's horrible 2k heal over 10 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown for a 2.5k instant bubble that I can use every 30 seconds.

 

Seriously, though, once rateds come out it will be obvious that every class is too squishy. I can die in less than two globals against a few coordinated people even with heavy armor. There is no time for healing. Just be glad that you can kite and live a little longer than that.

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What Sorcerer need are PvP game designers that actually know what they are doing!

 

1.2 Expertise changes put melee over the top (4m - 10m) any decent game designer would have reverted the Expertise changes within days....

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Except those defensive cooldowns dont break via burst damage like the static barrier does. Besides what I am asking for is not going to TURN the tables for us in a 1v1 against a PT/Rage Jugg or Operative DPS. It will just allow us to kite them longer and play more objective orientated. Not die in a 5 second burst.

 

Defensive screen can be burned down just as easily as Static Barrier.

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Bubble on 30s cooldown, it's the same thing the other ranged DPS classes have (shield probe on sniper, BH cooldown etc). You're not supposed to have any durability as a DPS caster unless you're being guarded/healed >.>

 

and have high burst. and sick DPS because the class has no defensive CDs and wears light armor.

 

At the very least Sorcerer DoTs should hit the hardest of any other class right? NEGATORY Marauder DoTs hit much harder.

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I'll trade you my vanguard's horrible 2k heal over 10 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown for a 2.5k instant bubble that I can use every 30 seconds.

 

Seriously, though, once rateds come out it will be obvious that every class is too squishy. I can die in less than two globals against a few coordinated people even with heavy armor. There is no time for healing. Just be glad that you can kite and live a little longer than that.

 

Are you arguing that Powertechs are squishier than Sorcerers because that's clearly not the case, we have to forego a lot of our DPS for SURVIVABILITY. You guys are squishy yes but at least you are the burstiest/top dps class in the game. Yes you die when you get focus fired quickly, we die by one skilled PT's focus fire or Rage Jugg (note skilled).

 

Defensive screen can be burned down just as easily as Static Barrier.

 

Yes but you guys get entrench which is a fairly useful defensive cooldown that we do not have. If i could be immune to CC such as the snares that the PT or Juggernaut put on me, I would gladly take that as well over an Ice Block. Although that would make me more OP than something like an Ice Block. Also I am not sure about this but Evasion I believe Snipers get as well, which is also a defensive cooldown.

Edited by Lanimal
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I am fairly satisfied with the state of the Sorcerer right now. I understand its drawbacks and its role within the 8v8 environment. This is the reason I play a utility sorcerer and not a pure DPS or Heal sorcerer. I have been playing this class since launch and I do believe I am one of the top sorcs on my server. I understand the mechanics of kiting, resolve, line of sight, smart movement etc.

 

However, this still does not change the fact that we need a PURE defensive cooldown for the Sorcerer. The static barrier will simply not be enough once rated hits. Powertech Railshot, Juggernaut Smash, Operative Burst all eat through the barrier way too easily (Marauders I have no issue with) combine that with the snares that the first two classes have makes it pretty difficult even for a skilled sorcerer to kite them.

 

What I mean by a PURE defensive cooldown is not something similar to undying rage and force shroud (I feel BW got those wrong in the first place). As those abilities are more often used as offensive cool-downs than defensive ones. As there is no increase in rage cost or lockout of abilities when those are active.

 

I am asking for something similar to Ice Block from WoW where you are invulnerable for damage for a few seconds can choose to disable it yourself and are not allowed to MOVE or CAST anything while its happening. All this will do is allow us to BLOCK one railshot or one SMASH if timed properly. It will also require a decent skill ceiling to truly master such an ability. This will increase our survivability just enough without making us OP.

 

Do you guys think this is too much to ask? What are the drawbacks of such a POOR defensive cooldown? :D

 

Low cooldown bubble

Force sprint.

Overload root.

Whirlwind.

Force slow.

 

By the time you've exhausted these, hopefully one of your non-braindead team members will realize he should peel for you.

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Bubble on 30s cooldown, it's the same thing the other ranged DPS classes have (shield probe on sniper, BH cooldown etc). You're not supposed to have any durability as a DPS caster unless you're being guarded/healed >.>

 

I would totally agree with you, if dps Sorcs had anything even resembling dangerous spike damage, but they don't, all they have is sustained dps and utility. Sure, they can put up great numbers, but only if their opponents are stupid enough to let them stand back and cast all day. Sorcs need higher spike dps, and less sustained dps.

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I would totally agree with you, if dps Sorcs had anything even resembling dangerous spike damage, but they don't, all they have is sustained dps and utility. Sure, they can put up great numbers, but only if their opponents are stupid enough to let them stand back and cast all day. Sorcs need higher spike dps, and less sustained dps.

 

That was called Wrath+CL but BW removed it 1.2.

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Yes but you guys get entrench which is a fairly useful defensive cooldown that we do not have. If i could be immune to CC such as the snares that the PT or Juggernaut put on me, I would gladly take that as well over an Ice Block. Although that would make me more OP than something like an Ice Block. Also I am not sure about this but Evasion I believe Snipers get as well, which is also a defensive cooldown.

 

Entrench is a Sniper skill. Please be sure you're more adequately informed before posting about abilities, since your posts so far are full of misinformation.

 

Sorcerers get some really good CC/defensives, and I can know. I've got one. If you think you need more defensive cooldowns as a Sorcerer, you're doing something wrong.

Edited by Tkerzis
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undying rage and force shroud (I feel BW got those wrong in the first place). As those abilities are more often used as offensive cool-downs than defensive ones. As there is no increase in rage cost or lockout of abilities when those are active.

1. LOL? Undying Rage fine, almost every reasonable and unbiased person should agree its too much. But seriously you're complianing about Force Shroud and think BW 'got it wrong'? Maybe you should actually try playing an Assassin before complaining about something like that, because without Force Shroud Assassin would literally be the dead last by a huge margin as the worst class in the game.

 

2. If DPS sorc were smart, they would use 2 set / 2 set, combining DPS set with healing set for -3 seconds off Static Barrier as the 4 set on the DPS set is nearly worthless. But then most are too bad to even consider it.

 

3. Yes Sorc are pretty squishy, its too bad then that 90% of them just stand there taking a beating instead of kiting. The ones that are good and do know how to kite do CONSIDERABLY better. So basically learn to kite.

Edited by Gidoru
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1. LOL? Undying Rage fine, almost every reasonable and unbiased person should agree its too much. But seriously you're complianing about Force Shroud and think BW 'got it wrong'? Maybe you should actually try playing an Assassin before complaining about something like that, because without Force Shroud Assassin would literally be the dead last by a huge margin as the worst class in the game.

 

2. If DPS sorc were smart, they would use 2 set / 2 set, combining DPS set with healing set for -3 seconds off Static Barrier as the 4 set on the DPS set is nearly worthless. But then most are too bad to even consider it.

 

3. Yes Sorc are pretty squishy, its too bad then that 90% of them just stand there taking a beating instead of kiting. The ones that are good and do know how to kite do CONSIDERABLY better. So basically learn to kite.

 

Ok then, take away UR and give maras 45 sec cd force shroud then.

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Entrench is a Sniper skill. Please be sure you're more adequately informed before posting about abilities, since your posts so far are full of misinformation.

 

Sorcerers get some really good CC/defensives, and I can know. I've got one. If you think you need more defensive cooldowns as a Sorcerer, you're doing something wrong.

 

First off you need to understand the difference between a defensive cooldown and a utility ability (stuns snares etc). Yes we have tonnes of utility if we spec into it. I automatically assumed defensive screen was referring to sniper as they are the 'squishier' class. I thought the operative ability name was cloak screen or something. Still the crux of your argument was comparing Sorcerer squishiness to Operative Squishyness by comparing defensive screen to static barrier. Assuming those two are negated.

 

You still have evasion and freaking stealth. Not to mention Operative healers can heal themselves out of most bursty DPS (maybe except for PT but even then they can last a LOT longer than sorcerers can). I dont think it was a valid comparison of surviveability at all. Comparing us to Merc DPS is better but I think both those classes need buffs.

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1. LOL? Undying Rage fine, almost every reasonable and unbiased person should agree its too much. But seriously you're complianing about Force Shroud and think BW 'got it wrong'? Maybe you should actually try playing an Assassin before complaining about something like that, because without Force Shroud Assassin would literally be the dead last by a huge margin as the worst class in the game.

 

2. If DPS sorc were smart, they would use 2 set / 2 set, combining DPS set with healing set for -3 seconds off Static Barrier as the 4 set on the DPS set is nearly worthless. But then most are too bad to even consider it.

 

3. Yes Sorc are pretty squishy, its too bad then that 90% of them just stand there taking a beating instead of kiting. The ones that are good and do know how to kite do CONSIDERABLY better. So basically learn to kite.

 

1. I didn't say it was OP did I? I also clarified in my post that as a Sorcerer I dont have trouble against Tankassasins or Marauders because (b4ijumptoconclusions) I can kite them fairly easy. I referred to the bursty Rage Juggernaut / Powertech and Operative DPS. I said BW got it wrong in the sense that if all these 'defensive cooldowns' were just that, pure defensive cooldowns then the game would have been much more balanced. Instead of Maras and Tankassasins waiting to pop undying rage/force shroud and then pop their Relic/Adrenal/Recklessness to use it as their primary burst time frame.

 

2 and 3. I am a valor 91 Sorcerer from Launch and also PVP lead of arguably the best future ranked team on my server. Therefore its pretty foolish to jump to conclusions and assume that I already haven't have been using 2x2 set bonuses forever. Once again if you L2READ you would have understood that I already said I am fairly satisfied with the Sorcerer class as it stands right now because I know HOW TO KITE, UNDERSTAND RESOLVE BAR, LINE OF SIGHT etc.. I even manually discharge my backlash by right clicking the buff (blind on AOE) to make it another stun in my arsenal (can stun people back while stunned).

 

Let me just ask you a simple question. You are trying to design an elite 8 man ranked team composition. Would you take a Sorc healer over an Operative or Merc healer? Would you take a PURE SORC DPS over a PT/Mara/OP/Sniper/Tankassasin/Juggernaut? If you answered No to the two above questions you already know that the class needs a buff to be viable for 8 man ranked. Only way a sorcerer fits into a ranked team is as a unique support role of pure utility build.

 

The whole point of this thread is with the anticipation of 1.3 and rated and referring to what would be needed to make sorcerers viable for rated.

Edited by Lanimal
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1. I referred to the bursty Rage Juggernaut / Powertech and Operative DPS.

Sorc is not the only class that has problems with these classes. A good and well played class from this list will destroy almost anyone that is not on the list. So honestly, so Sorc need a buff or do these classes need a nerf?

 

2 and 3. I am a valor 91 Sorcerer from Launch and also PVP lead of arguably the best future ranked team on my server. Therefore its pretty foolish to jump to conclusions and assume that I already haven't have been using 2x2 set bonuses forever. Once again if you L2READ you would have understood that I already said I am fairly satisfied with the Sorcerer class as it stands right now because I know HOW TO KITE, UNDERSTAND RESOLVE BAR, LINE OF SIGHT etc.. I even manually discharge my backlash by right clicking the buff (blind on AOE) to make it another stun in my arsenal (can stun people back while stunned).

Ok so you're amazing at this game and you think that Sorc is in a fairly good spot, yet in your original post you paint a dire picture as though Sorc are terrible and worthless. So Sorc are terrible and Sorc are not terrible? Contradiction.

Let me just ask you a simple question. You are trying to design an elite 8 man ranked team composition. Would you take a Sorc healer over an Operative or Merc healer? Would you take a PURE SORC DPS over a PT/Mara/OP/Sniper/Tankassasin/Juggernaut? If you answered No to the two above questions you already know that the class needs a buff to be viable for 8 man ranked. Only way a sorcerer fits into a ranked team is as a unique support role of pure utility build.

Tank Assassins are an ez mode joke and need to be fixed. Id imagine if BW is semi competent they will fix them in 1.3

Marauder isnt as unbalanced as most people are crying about but they are somewhat too strong.

Again, you're basically mentioning specific talent trees that are difficult for almost anyone that is not playing one of those talent trees to deal with.

Edited by Gidoru
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Ok so you're amazing at this game and you think that Sorc is in a fairly good spot, yet in your original post you paint a dire picture as though Sorc are terrible and worthless. So Sorc are terrible and Sorc are not terrible? Contradiction.

 

Did not paint a dire picture just stated what must be done for Sorcerer to be viable for rated. To put it in short as of right now since there is no rated and ELO, sorcerer is fine (because only 4 man premades) however once rated comes no TOP RATED TEAM will be running a sorcerer unless they do something about it. If I wasn't the in-game leader of my own team I would gladly give my spot up to a Tankassassin.

 

Sorc is not the only class that has problems with these classes. A good and well played class from this list will destroy almost anyone that is not on the list. So honestly, so Sorc need a buff or do these classes need a nerf?

 

I am of the belief that nerfing shouldn't be the way to go for MMO's. People who play those classes enjoy it, probably cause they have high burst, high utility, high surviveability etc. By nerfing those classes it will result in quite a large disgruntled player base and in general a lesser skill ceiling / fewer mechanics to compete against. If instead BW was to add abilities/buff the rest then all classes would be fun and challenging to play. I think thats how they should do it.

 

Good-Balanced (A.K.A OP Classes & Builds)

- Rage Juggernaut

- Anhilation Marauder

- Pyro PT

- DPS Operative

- Healing Operative

- Healing Mercenary

- Tankassassin

 

Under powered classes that need to be buffed or fixed

- Sorcerer heals

- Sorcerer DPS

- Mercenary DPS

- Deception Tankassasin

- Vengeance Jugg -?? (Not so sure about this one)

- Lethality Operative

 

Sniper falls in between those two sets. So not quite sure what to do with them :D.

 

Although the key is to buff while increasing the skill ceiling to master the class, not give us ezmode buffs like improving the static barrier etc.

Edited by Lanimal
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Did not paint a dire picture just stated what must be done for Sorcerer to be viable for rated. To put it in short as of right now since there is no rated and ELO, sorcerer is fine (because only 4 man premades) however once rated comes no TOP RATED TEAM will be running a sorcerer unless they do something about it. If I wasn't the in-game leader of my own team I would gladly give my spot up to a Tankassassin.

 

 

 

I am of the belief that nerfing shouldn't be the way to go for MMO's. People who play those classes enjoy it, probably cause they have high burst, high utility, high surviveability etc. By nerfing those classes it will result in quite a large disgruntled player base and in general a lesser skill ceiling / fewer mechanics to compete against. If instead BW was to add abilities/buff the rest then all classes would be fun and challenging to play. I think thats how they should do it.

 

Good-Balanced (A.K.A OP Classes & Builds)

- Rage Juggernaut

- Anhilation Marauder

- Pyro PT

- DPS Operative

- Healing Operative

- Healing Mercenary

- Tankassassin

 

Under powered classes that need to be buffed or fixed

- Sorcerer heals

- Sorcerer DPS

- Mercenary DPS

- Deception Tankassasin

- Vengeance Jugg -?? (Not so sure about this one)

- Lethality Operative

 

Sniper falls in between those two sets. So not quite sure what to do with them :D.

 

Although the key is to buff while increasing the skill ceiling to master the class, not give us ezmode buffs like improving the static barrier etc.

 

Not offending the player base is all well and good. But lets face it, what is easier? Nerfing 4-5 talent trees or buffing 10+. Im pretty sure Bioware even stated this after they nerfed Mercs in 1.2, Basically its not worth the effort to change everything tree in the game to appease those that play the hanful that arent balanced.

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I think the number of builds that need nerfing to ones that need buffing are about the same. There might be one or two more on the buffing side. Although I agree that buffing requires a lot more work on BW's side because in some instances it might require adding something such as a new function to a skill tree point or another characteristic to an already existing ability rather than simply changing the base value of an ability. But I am sure they have enough resources and time to put in the effort to make the game awesome by buffing instead of nerfing. I mean its their job after all. :)
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